Camallanus Worms Questions!

[Pfrozen]

an alternative to Fenbendazole is Flubendazole.. essentially the same thing but the latter is water soluble

 

[Dippiedee]

The worms have claimed my albino threadfin acara. Havent been able to treat yet because I'm waiting for the levamisole to arrive. Upgraded the postage so it would arrive after 2 days but my postal service is absolutely abysmal at the moment with letters and parcels arriving up to a month or two late.

The acara was the worst affected, I hope I dont have any more casualties...

 

[Tilderjones]

The worms have claimed my albino threadfin acara. Havent been able to treat yet because I'm waiting for the levamisole to arrive...

Sorry to hear that, you will lose some but most will make it once your medicine gets in. I hope you ordered a good amount of the powder, it's nice to have some always on hand! You never know when a new fish you got has it - sometimes they show no symptoms for months and get through quarantine fine, then infect weaker fish.

 

[Dippiedee]

Levamisole finally arrived & have began the treatment process. No more casualties so far

 

[Dippiedee]

Update:
Fish are all looking good but all my red cherry shrimp have died, and my bamboo shrimp escaped from the tank and was sitting on the draining board when I got up this morning. I didnt think to check if the levamisole was toxic to shrimp/snails... not that I had anywhere else to put them anyway

 

[MacZ]

Problem with all meds that are effective against Camallanus worms is they are also killing other invertebrates. There is no known exception.

 

[Dippiedee]

Bamboo shrimp is dead now too. That sucks hes been with me since the beginning. The leaflet the meds came with said it was shrimp safe

 

[MacZ]

Bamboo shrimp is dead now too. That sucks hes been with me since the beginning. The leaflet the meds came with said it was shrimp safe

Where did you get that stuff and what manufacturer? EU-based manufacturers are required to note in the leaflet any side effects and contraindications.

 

[Dippiedee]

Where did you get that stuff and what manufacturer? EU-based manufacturers are required to note in the leaflet any side effects and contraindications.

My partner ordered it from amazon. Its eSHa; it did specify that it wasnt snail safe. I cant find the leaflet now to double check

 

[MacZ]

Yeah, you don't have to. ESHa is a dutch company that is more than controversial and known to use loophole abuse frequently when it comes to such things. Ask DoubleDutch.

 

[Dippiedee]

Yeah, you don't have to. ESHa is a dutch company that is more than controversial and known to use loophole abuse frequently when it comes to such things. Ask DoubleDutch.

Well that sucks, I didnt know that.

 

[MacZ]

Nobody is calling you out on that. For the future just stay clear of eSHa. Especially eSHa 2000 is just poison.

 

[Dippiedee]

Nobody is calling you out on that. For the future just stay clear of eSHa. Especially eSHa 2000 is just poison.

If theres a lesson to be learnt you can guarantee I'll learn it the hard way thanks for the heads up though

 

[DoubleDutch]

But you didn't get Esha 2000 to treat worms did you?

 

[Dippiedee]

But you didn't get Esha 2000 to treat worms did you?

No its eSHa -ndx

 

[DoubleDutch]

No its eSHa -ndx

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjADegQIDhAB&usg=AOvVaw3j9I0KkuPwVx6VNJutDNQw

 

[Dippiedee]

Well, since they all died I think it's safe to say I observed negative effects on crustaceans

 

[AvalancheDave]

It's amazing how many toxic aquarium products/treatments there are out there.

 

[DoubleDutch]

View attachment 745110

Well, since they all died I think it's safe to say I observed negative effects on crustaceans

Agree. In aquabrandlanguage "we didn't obeserve" = we didn't really check but we're not repsonsible whatsoever.

 

[AvalancheDave]

In their minds, if a treatment doesn't cause mass deaths every time it's used is "safe."

In human medicine, chloramphenicol is the classic drug of last resort used only when there is no alternative. One out of every 24,000 people experience life-threatening side effects. If it were an aquarium treatment it would be considered very safe.

 

[RayClem]

It's amazing how many toxic aquarium products/treatments there are out there.

Almost all medications, whether for humans, livestock, pets, or fish have negative side effects. Probably the most dramatic of these are the drugs used to treat cancer. In order to treat the cancer, the patient has to take chemotherapy that nearly kills the patient.

Unfortunately, with fish diseases, aquarists want to use treatments effective against a broad range of pathogens such they do not always know the specific identity of the pathogen, whether worm, protozoa, bacteria, fungus, etc. Any broad spectrum medication is likely to be accompanied by a broad range of side effects.

As an interesting sidelight to this situation is the invasion of the Great Lakes in North America by the sea lamprey. This is a very large parasitic animal (as big as your forearm) that attaches to large fish and eventually kills them. After trying unsuccessfully to trap the lampreys, they finally did research on a specific poison that would kill sea lampreys without killing desirable fish in the Great Lakes, or the humans and animals that drink water from the lakes. About $20 million is spent each year on dumping the poison into the various lakes to control the lamprey population, but it still has not eliminate it.

The reason I shared that story is that if you can specifically identify the parasite or pathogen, it is more likely that you can prescribe a medication that will treat the disease with fewer side effects. Unfortunately, hobbyists do not have access to the tools to properly diagnose illness, so they resort to using medications that treat a broad range of disease, but can have a broad range of detrimental side effects.

 

[Tilderjones]

Darn, sorry about your shrimp Dippiedee
The invertebrates I have did fine with the treatment.
I ordered pure levamisole HCL from AngelsPlus - Med: Levami sole HCL 100%
From my observations, using two doses on 5 planted tanks spaced 2 weeks apart, none of my hundred or more various sized 'pest' ramshorn snail died. And although I only have one cherry shrimp (the others became betta snacks, lol) he lived through the treatment too and is still doing well.
The dosage ratio I used was about 1/4 tsp HCL per 100 gallons water.
If all your shrimps died maybe you used a higher dosage than normal or the medication has something else in it other than levamisole HCL powder? I wonder...

 

[Gudgie]

Eeek! Took a look at my 75 gallon tank, and I'm fairly sure one of the new rams has camallanus worms! Not something I've dealt with before, but that's certainly what it looks like to me. Photo attached, and full emergency template below in case it's needed.

The ram has been in my tank about two weeks, so I'm assuming I need to treat the entire tank, correct? And of course I've shared tools w/ my 20 gallon, so I need to treat that one too (and bleach tools). Ugh...trying not to panic too much.

All fish are eating, and it seems like I could treat with either fenbendazole or levamisole. jkkgron2, were you the one who successfully treated with fenben? And if so, was it just medicating the food or did you add it to the water? Leaning towards using fenben, and only jumping to levamisole if needed, but wanted everyone's feedback (it's only because my impression was that lev is harder on the tank, which could be incorrect). Hoping to start treatment ASAP, ideally something plant and invert safe (otherwise I'll try to catch the shrimp/snails and move them). Which med is safer to use without destroying the entire tank?

Template:
Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 75 gallon
How long has the tank been running? over a year
Does it have a filter? yes - Fluval 306 and 407
Does it have a heater? yes
What is the water temperature? 78F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)

• Synodontis lucipinnis
• BN pleco
• Colombian zebra pleco
• rummynose tetras
• Bolivian rams
• male Endlers
• female bettas
• bamboo shrimp
• amano shrimp
• nerite snails
• mystery snail

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? every 1-2 weeks
How much of the water do you change? 25-50%
What do you use to treat your water? Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? vacuum substrate every time

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? yep.
What do you use to test the water? API master test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10-20
pH: 6.6 with CO2, 7.4 without CO2

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? once a day
How much do you feed your fish? small amount of pellets or one frozen cube
What brand of food do you feed your fish? BugBites, Kens, Hikari frozen, Repashy gel, OmegaOne
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? frozen or prepared; no freeze-dried

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? about two weeks (the one w/ noticeable symptoms)
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? today
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?Red protruding from anus. Also noticed he's skinny and not growing as well as the other young ram I have. No symptoms in other fish, which we've had for 6 months to > 5 years. The only other fish added at the same time as this one was another young ram.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Not yet
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? No behavior changes, not sure if skinnier or not. Still eating though!

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
Please see everything I described above before the template.

 

[FinalFins]

Looks like camallanus. I prefer using levamisole, its quite good for worms and has the reputation for being the rid o' camallanus stuff. It doesn't affect eggs so I would treat now and 2 weeks later. Make sure to gravel vac.

 

[Gudgie]

Looks like camallanus. I prefer using levamisole, its quite good for worms and has the reputation for being the rid o' camallanus stuff. It doesn't affect eggs so I would treat now and 2 weeks later. Make sure to gravel vac.

Any concerns with regards to inverts or plants?

 

[jkkgron2]

Any concerns with regards to inverts or plants?

I’ve never used levamisole with shrimp, but it can hurt snails. I didn’t lose all of my snails when I treated with levamisole, but I did lose a couple nerites. It does have a minor affect on plants, but as long as the plants are established and healthy they should be fine.

I did treat with fenbendazole by medicating the food, but I had already used levamisole so some of the worms were already dead. Fenbendazole is great if most fish aren’t heavily infected. If most fish are then using both levamisole and fenbendazole is a better option.

But, because of how many fish are in that tank, Some of the bottom feeders might not get the food, and even if only a few worms survive that’s still enough for them to continue spreading and hurting the fish. So I think levamisole should be the main med used, and only use fenbendazole if the levamisole didn’t clear it up.

 

[Gudgie]

I’ve never used levamisole with shrimp, but it can hurt snails. I didn’t lose all of my snails when I treated with levamisole, but I did lose a couple nerites. It does have a minor affect on plants, but as long as the plants are established and healthy they should be fine.

I did treat with fenbendazole by medicating the food, but I had already used levamisole so some of the worms were already dead. Fenbendazole is great if most fish aren’t heavily infected. If most fish are then using both levamisole and fenbendazole is a better option.

But, because of how many fish are in that tank, Some of the bottom feeders might not get the food, and even if only a few worms survive that’s still enough for them to continue spreading and hurting the fish. So I think levamisole should be the main med used, and only use fenbendazole if the levamisole didn’t clear it up.

Thanks!

I had some fenben delivered today (safeguard), so I may mix that with some repashy gel food and feed that today as an initial treatment.

The soonest I could get levamisole delivered is Thursday (prohibit drench powder), so I should be able to start treating the water later that day.

 

[jkkgron2]

Thanks!

I had some fenben delivered today (safeguard), so I may mix that with some repashy gel food and feed that today as an initial treatment.

The soonest I could get levamisole delivered is Thursday (prohibit drench powder), so I should be able to start treating the water later that day.

Once you get the levamisole I’d use it for three days and then repeat in 2 weeks. 3 weeks after that I’d do the final dose for levamisole.

 

[Gudgie]

Once you get the levamisole I’d use it for three days and then repeat in 2 weeks. 3 weeks after that I’d do the final dose for levamisole.

Dosing it each of those three days? Or just dosing the first day and waiting to do a water change (and possibly add carbon) on day three?

 

[jkkgron2]

Dosing it each of those three days? Or just dosing the first day and waiting to do a water change (and possibly add carbon) on day three?

Don’t dose each day. Just wait to do a water change and add carbon until day three.

 

[Oriongal]

I've used levamisole where I also had shrimp, and it didn't seem to affect them. I also have found that it seems to work better than both flubendazole and fenbendazole.

 

[Gudgie]

Did an initial feeding with fenben-laced food, since that arrived today. Approximate dosage was 1g SafeGuard granules (22% fenbendazole) to 100g of prepared Repashy gel good. Mixed up both some spawn & grow and soilent green formulas, in the hopes that most of the fish would go for at least one of them. Seems like many are picking at it...hopefully the obviously infested ram will too. I temporarily moved my two mystery snails to another holding tank, since they usually make a beeline for fish food.

Levamisole may actually get here tomorrow instead of Thurs. Once that's here, I'll do a big water change, remove the purigen from my filters, and then dose my tanks. Hopefully all goes smoothly.

 

[Gudgie]

Just finally did my second dose of levamisole. Unfortunately it ended up being 4 weeks apart from my first dose thanks to life getting in the way. Definitely doing to do at least a third dose (on schedule this time!).

Thus far, I've lost three rams. The initial young one that was sick, and two of my three older rams. Thankfully, my largest and most colorful male continues to be healthy (from what I can tell?), as does the adult female and other youngster. At this point, no fish in any of my tanks appear sick. Still going to finish treatment to be safe, but hoping I'm past the danger zone.

Edit: thought I’d mention that I lost the three rams fairly early - nothing in at least the last two weeks.

 

[Gudgie]

Figured I’d circle back to this with an update. I *think* the worms are gone? At the very least, there are no signs of any illness, worms, etc. Other than the three fish I lost early on, there were never any signs in my other fish at any point. Hoping that means they’re safe.

I suppose it’s possible there could still be a light infestation - is there really any way to know for sure whether it has been eradicated? Guessing I should just trust it’s gone unless anything eventually shows up? Just trying to decide how to proceed when it comes to adding new stock, or if I eventually have fry to rehome (like 6 months from no…not anytime soon).

 

[jkkgron2]

If the fish are doing fine then I’d assume they’re gone. Unless fish start randomly dying I doubt there are any worms still alive.

 

[Gudgie]

If the fish are doing fine then I’d assume they’re gone. Unless fish start randomly dying I doubt there are any worms still alive.

Okay, thanks!