But they hardly know each other! A Agassizii Fry

[PAcanis]

Or, Love in the Rio Negro
Totally unexpected. The male only went in the tank last Saturday. And I didn't know she was of age.
I mean, I knew it could happen, but I wasn't expecting it. Not this early.

 

[Blacksheep1]

Oh how adorable! Congratulations!!

 

[PAcanis]

Oh how adorable! Congratulations!!

Thanks!
It will be interesting to see if any make it.

 

[Blacksheep1]

Most definately! Will you be intervening?

 

[PAcanis]

Most definately! Will you be intervening?

I don't know.
If I do I have nothing set up for them.
If I don't I might never see fry again, as I consider myself lucky this time.
What would you do?

Here's another video. See how she submits to the male when he's near?
And while the tetras got close, I didn't see them actually get one.
I wonder if the fry and her will all go behind the wood again? Or how long she will watch them for?
I suppose I ought to read up on this.

 

[TClare]

Very nice, looks just like in the wild! It will be difficult for any to survive with those tetras, but interesting anyway.

edit - posted at the same time, she will almost certainly have fry again before long if those don't make it. Then if you could have a small tank ready and live brine shrimp, you could separate some when they are free swimming.

 

[PAcanis]

Yeah, they are already more bold with her more in the open.

Just remembered I have that 2.5g I tore down earlier this week!

 

[Blacksheep1]

I’d not be able to stop myself !!! They are just too adorable . But if you don’t I’d think there’s a high chance they’d breed again !

 

[PAcanis]

I slapped together that 2.5 cylinder that I used to have the Platy fry in.
BTW, Note: Don't leave pool filter sand outside in winter conditions. It will freeze up like a bag of wet cement. But I was able to get some sand out of it and mixed with with some white aquarium sand I had. Tossed in some spiderwood and a plant, a couple leaves from the big tank, half RO and half the water they were in.

I see a couple swimming around in there, but it's still pretty cloudy. I'll take a pic later.

I used the siphon and sucked where I saw them, but it was pretty impossible to specifically target them. Plus I didn't want to siphon up ma or pa, who were hanging around nearby. When I was done ma was still chasing off the tetras, so I imagine I did not get them all. Nor did I want to.

I'm sure I poured some out of the siphon bucket into the cylinder, but had to net a bunch too. Maybe 8-10. It seemed every time I thought I had them all I'd find one or two more. They are really tiny.



So, assuming I don't kill them all, what can I expect?
Ma was a double red and pa was a flame red. Will they have some color? Or are they like cherry shrimp when you cross one color with another?

Oh, and I did have some BB going, so put some of them in the bucket, too. Plus I have Sera micron fry food that my tiny Platies loved.

 

[TClare]

Good luck rearing them, I don't know about the colour. I might be inclined to put in a few more leaves from the main tank, they should contain infusoria just incase the fry are still too small to eat the brine shrimps.They are much much smaller than platy fry and I am not sure if they will eat the powdered food, as sometimes they need movement to stimulate eating. You need to look at the fry with a magnifying glass to check they are feeding, if they are eating brine shrimps their stomachs will look red, in any case they should look full.

 

[PAcanis]

Good luck rearing them, I don't know about the colour. I might be inclined to put in a few more leaves from the main tank, they should contain infusoria just incase the fry are still too small to eat the brine shrimps.They are much much smaller than platy fry and I am not sure if they will eat the powdered food, as sometimes they need movement to stimulate eating. You need to look at the fry with a magnifying glass to check they are feeding, if they are eating brine shrimps their stomachs will look red, in any case they should look full.

Thank you for the information.
And I agree on the leaves. I only grabbed three because I was in a hurry. But looking back they could have spent more time in the bucket while I built the tank better.

I'll keep an eye on their tummies. Good info!

ETA: It just dawned on me. You haven't seen the tank yet. You don't know how many leaves I put in there.
The above picture is the 5g bucket I siphoned them into and the water left over I was netting them out of

 

[TClare]

You haven't seen the tank yet. You don't know how many leaves I put in there.

You said you put a couple of leaves in...

 

[Blacksheep1]

They are so super small ! I’m really gunning for these little guys to make it , it would be interesting to see what colours they produce and if you have a mixture of the parents. I’d definitely throw a bunch of the more de composed leaves in as they are already breaking down and add fresh to the other tank if it needs them. Good luck on the feeding

 

[PAcanis]

Ah, so I did say how many leaves.
But they were big leaves anyway


Plus I put some white fuzzy stuff that was growing on a seed pod in there.
But I can certainly add more. Actually, this would be a good time to replenish the 38g. Most of the leaves were pretty decayed before I got to these three.

And I'm hoping to see some make it in the other tank, too. It's not like there aren't a lot of hiding places, but I've noticed my fish don't seem to think they are as good of a hiding place as I do. Although mama found a good spot. That certainly explains why she's been avoiding me. And everyone else.
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So yes, the fry know enough to follow their mother around. She is back by the base of the driftwood and the fry (at least 2 dozen) are around her. And so is the male. He has been hanging out around her now, too. Maybe he was waiting for her to emerge with the fry until he came around.

Really neat to see.

 

[PAcanis]

I turned the lights on out at work and mama still has a brood around her. I also started some BBS to hatch. And ordered some decapsulated brine shrimp, which I hadn't heard of before until searching this morning on feeding the fry and that was an alternative. I'm hoping I can use a turkey baster to shoot some live BBS around the fry in the big tank, but I imagine there are micro organisms in there.

Lights on in the cylinder fry tank in a few hours, so I can keep the same schedule with the rest of the house tanks. I can already tell much of the cloudiness is gone, so hopefully I see some swimming around in there. Then I'll sprinkle some Sera fry food in that tank. The LFS says it's "absorbed", but when I fed the Platy fry they were actively eating it. Either way it couldn't hurt until some shrimp hatch.

 

[TClare]

I have never used that sera food but never had any luck with First bites. Another thing you can use before BBS is hard boiled egg yolk, squeeze a little through a fine mesh (like old tights). Cichlid fry seem to like that. Whichever you use be careful of water quality.

 

[PAcanis]

The water is clearer than the glass makes it look. Actually, it's too clear. I better drop some leaf litter in there. I boiled some up this morning.



I saw a few moving around. Which considering how tiny they are is pretty good. I'm going to say more than just a few made it. And they did show more activity when I sprinkled a little food in. One might have even gulped at it, but the food is pretty hard to see, too

 

[PAcanis]

I just put in some BBS and saw about 7 of the little fry moving around. Some were darting quite quickly. But I didn't actually see any eat a baby shrimp. It looked like they were the way they were moving and watching them all seem to gather and act excited, like fish do when there is food, but there were other times I would see the shrimp pass within 1/4" of the fry's head and they were oblivious to the movement.

I'm not sure if these had yolk sacs or how long it might be before they eat solid foods, but when I head over to the LFS I'll ask their people. A couple breed various Apistos and I'm sure they can tell me how to raise the fry.

 

[TClare]

I have seen something similar with Laetacara fry, at first it is not obvious if they are eating as I have seen them ignore brine shrimps that go very close to them, but my guess is that they are eating, unless they are still too small for brine shrimps. The Laetacara are definitely eating them at 2 days free swimming. You should be able to tell with a magnifying glass, they will have red tummies. They won't have their yolk sacs now, those are gone by the time they are free swimming.

 

[PAcanis]

Ah yes. The red tummies.
I'm going to look for my magnifying glass.
Thanks TClare
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Hmm... maybe...
There's really only one good spot to see them through a magnifying glass. The round cylinder tank does not help. I might have seen a dull red spot on one. A little smaller than the fry's eye. They are certainly less active than before. A couple are hanging out around the spiderwood not moving.
Maybe I'll get a better look at more later on.
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I hope by mentioning your name TClare you'll get notified. I know you won't with me simply posting inside of the four hour law.

Sorry for the poor pics, but it's a round tank, a *different* kind of magnifying glass and it was tough getting everything in focus. Heck, I thought I was just taking one fry's picture. I didn't know there were so many in one spot until I saw the pics.

Are these the red bellies you were talking about? They kind of look reddish spots close to the tail.

 

[PAcanis]

I'm going to say they are eating.
I sprinkled some fry food in the tank and it went from I can't see anybody to the fry coming out of their resting places as the powder sank. I'll give them some more artemia tonight.

The manager of the one shop that breeds Apistos said I can add java moss, too. That it will attract little critters they can also eat. I might just do that, as today I can tell that plant I quickly stuck in is melting. I did not give it any fertilizer because I wasn't sure if I could with the young fry.
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Yes! I saw one of the fry moved forward about an 1/8" and gulp down a BBS
Pretty cool.

I don't see any hanging out with mama anymore, but she's still chasing the other fish away from that area.

 

[PAcanis]

Fry update.

They seem to be getting bigger, but obviously are still very tiny. And some are going further up the tank instead of hanging out on the bottom all the time.
Today was a Sera micron day feeding only. None of my uncapsulated BBS eggs hatched that I started yesterday. That stuff really must take 24-36 hours like it said. I expected them to take less time than the eggs still in their shell.

So hopefully some live food for them tomorrow morning. If I don't see any hatched tomorrow morning I'll toss them and start the regular eggs. Then send the uncapsulated eggs back.

 

[TClare]

Never tried uncapsualted ones. I usually get some hatching before 24 hours at a temperature of 28C. But the majority yes 24-36 hours.

 

[PAcanis]

I read that the uncapsulated made great fry food. As well as other fish. Reading that I thought I could just sprinkle some in and the fish would eat them, but none of my fish did and ten minutes later I was using paper towels to get them off the surface.

So since they are supposed to hatch, too, I'm trying that.
My regular eggs I would often have BBS 12-18 hours later.

 

[Hellfishguy]

Decapsulated Artemia cysts don’t hatch - they are fed to fish directly.

 

[PAcanis]

They don't hatch?!
That could explain things.

I could have sworn I read 24-36 hours on the bottle.
I'm going to have to look at that. I thought the whole purpose was you could feed them as is or hatch them and not risk the hulls, which I read could still be attached to the BBS and get stuck in a fry's throat. Decapsulated prevents that.

They don't hatch? Wonderful.
And my fish won't eat them either. Well, maybe the Corys might if they ever sink.

 

[Hellfishguy]

I can never get my Apistogramma fry to eat anything that isn’t moving until they’re at least a month old. I start them on microworms and switch to BBS a week later.

 

[PAcanis]

Why hello there lil fella.
Day 9

 

[yukondog]

Decapsulated

Store bought Decapsulated shrimp wont hatch, but you can decapsulate and hatch your own, it's very easy to do.

 

[PAcanis]

Store bought Decapsulated shrimp wont hatch, but you can decapsulate and hatch your own, it's very easy to do.

I think that's where I got confused and thought all decapsulated would hatch.

 

[PAcanis]

The ones I am seeing are getting bigger. It seems like I can only find 6 at a time though. But the cylinder is hard to see into and I can only view it from the front. There may be more.

I'm still mixing their food up with both the Sera fry food and BBS. I like feeding them BBS because then I don't have to worry about feeding them for a while.

It seems like they have a checkerboard pattern going on. If they weren't so skittish now I could get a pic, but they are rarely up front now, preferring the plant and spiderwood. One of these days.

 

[PAcanis]

OK, there's about a dozen in there. And one is a tiny little fellow. Not sure what is holding him back compared to the rest.

I was finally able to get some pics just now without them all scurrying away. Fuzzy, but it was the best I could do. I deleted half of them because I couldn't even see any fry in the pics, lol.

Day 18. They look to be about 5/16" (8mm) long.








At least they are looking like fish now and not heads with tails.

ETA: they are using the whole tank more now and I can see them checking out the salvinia minima for BBS from about 12ft away. That's pretty cool.

 

[PAcanis]

They seem to be tolerating me more. I was able to get two videos today.
Here is the one I just took when feeding.
If you look at about 50 seconds in you'll see the little guy scooting off to the right. I don't know why he is so much smaller than the rest... is it possible I siphoned up an egg when I collected some of the fry and it hatched several days after?

And thanks to those who have been following along

 

[Hellfishguy]

It could be a runt; they frequently occur with apistos.

 

[Blacksheep1]

How are the fry with the parents getting on ? I’m hoping you don’t say the tetras got them all !!

 

[PAcanis]

How are the fry with the parents getting on ? I’m hoping you don’t say the tetras got them all !!

Thank you for asking

I just looked and counted four fry. I've been seeing 5-6 hanging out with mom. And when she swims elsewhere, they hide amongst the wood. There could be more, but that is what I am seeing. Just a small number from what I used to see.

Even when mom swims to eat the other fish don't automatically swim over to where the fry are hiding. She's still vigilant about chasing them off if she has to, so maybe they have learned to avoid her area where the fry are.

It's nice because her spot is towards the front of the tank.
And the male doesn't seem to bother her.

 

[Blacksheep1]

That’s brilliant !! It feels like it’s all gone swimmingly ( sorry )

 

[PAcanis]

Moving day.

 

[Blacksheep1]

Moving day.

View attachment 837068

That’s sent my eyes funny!!!!! Is that a tank within a tank?

 

[PAcanis]

Noooo...

It's one of those small containers you hang on the outside of an aquarium.

I put the fry in it while I moved the substrate and last of the water over. Then I acclimated them a little bit by adding some of the new aquarium water into the container.

I still need to add some more leaves and the background. And more plants.
But they had outgrown their time in the 2.5g cylinder (more or less) and I wanted to get them moved while I had the gumption.

 

[Blacksheep1]

Ohhhhh from the photo perspective it looked like you’d just put there tank in another tank now you’ve explained it i can CLEARLY see it’s one of those boxes ! Don’t mind me , it’s been a long day.

they will be loving life in that mansion you’ve just given them !

 

[PAcanis]

Thanks. They seem to be liking it.
And they are so much easier to see in a regular rectangular tank.
These grew faster than my Platy fry.

 

[PAcanis]

They are eating Sera mini growth food, too.
But I try to keep them stocked in BBS.