But I Don't Wanna Change My Water!!!!

jjohnwm

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One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't care about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.
 

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At an average rate of about half an hour or less a week per tank that's a total of a mere 26 hours out of the 8,760 hours in a year spent doing my water changes... How long and how much money do you think it takes them to develop and perfect these elaborate schemes to avoid such a simple task. Aha.
 

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One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't give a (deleted word) about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.
Ok, some of that was just plain funny! I actually consider myself to be part of the cycle of the tank. Sometimes I can just look at the tank, the water, and the inhabitants, and it just feels like its time for a WC. If you told me I couldn't do one, I'd be very sad. Since I'm part of the cycle I feel more connected to nature. Sounds weird now that I say it - oh well.ompous:
Edit: was too long -
 
How long and how much money do you think it takes them to develop and perfect these elaborate schemes to avoid such a simple task. Aha.
There is a quote somewhere in, I believe, the book “Cheaper By the Dozen”, to the effect that only a very lazy man would take so much time to figure out a way to avoid a little work. I have always identified very strongly with that quote.
 
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Ok, some of that was just plain funny! I actually consider myself to be part of the cycle of the tank. Sometimes I can just look at the tank, the water, and the inhabitants, and it just feels like its time for a WC. If you told me I couldn't do one, I'd be very sad. Since I'm part of the cycle I feel more connected to nature. Sounds weird now that I say it - oh well.ompous:
Edit: was too long -

The Zen aspect of fishkeeping. I fully agree that it's all about maintaining a connection with nature, rather than trying to control it.

And...it only seemed too long because you are frittering away so much of your time carrying buckets of water.
 
No fan of Dr. Novack huh ?
I have one tank set up all B.S. It has not in one little way changed how I care for fish I want to see grow ...
I think the Walstad people are the most abusive to fish and I have spoken with Dianne even ..She may have accurate info but so many fail trying her attempt at being lazy and successful it should be criminal to talk such junk in public ! I never took science past earth science [ no bio ] so it severely limits my fish keeping and fish keeping skills !
Hum lets all count the lazy successful people we know ..I am done !
Like mentioned I understand the scientific drive since I have had so many great ideas and improvements myself ! I am sure you all have my book ?
Since there are no fish police it doesn't matter but one really should look for another hobby if changing water is a chore for them ..
They either are doing it wrong or their fish just hate them ..Mine pay me huge for changing water ! They smile at me and wag their tales .
I can't even imagine trying to do what I do without water changes [ lots ]...
 

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No fan of Dr. Novack huh ?

Not even a little bit. I don't know if his doctorate is actually in one of the sciences; it seems that marketing is more his forte. Or perhaps it's an honorary degree?

Or...there's one last type...can I get a Doctor Pepper over here, please?

Since there are no fish police it doesn't matter but one really should look for another hobby if changing water is a chore for them ..
They either are doing it wrong or their fish just hate them...

Well, what can those fish be thinking?

"Hey, you! Human! Yeah, you with all the fancy lungs and fingers and stuff...is it too much to ask for some fresh clean water over here? It's bad enough you stick us into this tank, but do we have to live in diluted urine all our lives? And it's getting less diluted by the second! A little consideration, maybe...please?"

Yeah, they love the Biocenosis Clarification crowd.....
 
One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't care about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.
I'm currently working on exactly the machine you described but taking it a little further so it transports the unwanted elements to the Delta Quadrant to poison the Borg. This will then, in turn, provide a Borg-free environment which will make the fish totally stress-free.
**** unstressed fish won't need water changes so PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!

Want a beautiful aquarium - do the work or get another hobby!!!!!!
 
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I'm currently working on exactly the machine you described but taking it a little further so it transports the unwanted elements to the Delta Quadrant to poison the Borg. This will then, in turn, provide a Borg-free environment which will make the fish totally stress-free.
unstressed fish won't need water changes so PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!

Want a beautiful aquarium - do the work or get another hobby!!!!!!

I like that! We could take it a step further; why stop at aquariums? Replace all the messy and complicated plumbing in washrooms and restrooms with the Selective Element Transporter...let's start calling it the SET because acronyms rock, especially here on Fishlore. Need to take a whiz and/or a poop? Just pop into the restroom, push the button and the SET empties your bladder and colon for you, beaming the unwanted material directly from your body to the chosen destination, no muss, no fuss. The home version of the device probably wouldn't have the power to send the goods all the way across the galaxy...but it should be easy to deliver the stuff into the sun, or the surface of Pluto (now that it's not a planet...why not?), or maybe your neighbour's swimming pool.

Oh, wait...I know! There's already a thread complaining that the anoxic aquarium filter is working too well, and the water is so nitrate-free that plants are dying. It's been decided that a new source of nitrates needs to be found that can be added into the water for the plants. The SET is the answer! It's so simple it's beautiful: take the water, send it through the RO device to de-mineralize it, then dump a bunch of store-bought chemicals into it to re-mineralize it back the way it was, then put it into the fish-tank, filter it the traditional way to get your nitrates accumulating, then do the anoxic boogie to get rid of those nitrates, and then buy a bag of fertilizer to put some nitrates back into the water. Doing that the old-fashioned way...you know, spending money on chemicals and gear, opening all those bags and bottles, measuring, dosing, etc...is probably almost as much physical effort as just changing water, so we can't have that. But the SET will let you just sit back and let it all happen with no work on your part.

We'd better patent this before API or SeaChem get their hooks into the idea...
 
It's the goldfish in a bowl ethos

Often as kids we are given or we win a goldfish at a fair, or loving grandparents/parents buy us a goldfish for a pet. We rush to the petshop all excited and buy a fishbowl and some food, go home, fill the bowl with tap water, plonk the fish in and watch it madly circling the bowl. And that is the sum total of a child's eye view of keeping fish

Or at least it was decades ago

People look at pet choices and see huge and scary vet bills with cats, dogs, horses etc and their kids are begging mum & dad for a pet. By the same token a lot of adults go to the doctor or dentist and sit in the waiting room mesmerised by that immaculately kept aquarium sat in the corner

"I want fish!"

So off they wander to the petshop and decide on the aquarium and the fish.....often bypassing the aisle with the water additives....and proudly return home with their "cheap to buy, easy to keep" new pets

They set up their aquarium, pour in water from the tap, plonk the fish in and sit and watch the pretty coloured bodies swimming around in their new home. All things go well for a few days, fish are happy, owner can still see the wallpaper behind the tank so the water must be fine....all tickety-boo & perfect

But then over time fish start dying, the water goes cloudy and smelly.... "oh no!!!"

Then they come to forums like this or decide to look this wonderous hobby up on the internet or in the library and it dawns on them just how expensive, time consuming, complicated and emotionally draining fishkeeping can be.

Some will give up at this point and pack the aquarium away or sell it....others will persevere and eventually they will get that same beautiful, immaculate aquarium that they saw in the waiting room

But it doesn't and won't happen overnight...we humans are guardians of these wondrous creatures and we are responsible for them just as we are with dogs, cats, horses etc

If you truly want to be a real fishkeeper, you must as their guardian, do everything that you can to make their lives as happy, healthy and comfortable as you can....and in return you will be treated to some of the most spectacular of the world's animals

But never underestimate the work involved or the heartache or the bruised bank balance

Whether a single goldfish in a bowl or a 400 gallon super dooper aquarium, ALL fish need to be cared for properly, it is a lifetime committment of hard graft and expence and if you are not absolutely 100% up for that, then you need another hobby....cos bottom line is that your fish depend on you for everything 24/7 and if you cannot do that and go the extra mile when needed then you shouldn't have fish.
 
Maybe I'm crazy, but ever since I bought a gravel vac I have started to love doing water changes. I can visibly SEE what I'm taking out, and the substrate no longer looks like complete doo doo for days on end.

You got to scoop a cat's litter, gotta clean a dog's bed, so on, so on.
 

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um...excuse me but this device already exists...
Ever hear of the Aquascum 2003? Haven't you ever seen Finding Nemo?
Fish shouldn't live in a box, kid.
 
I like that! We could take it a step further; why stop at aquariums? Replace all the messy and complicated plumbing in washrooms and restrooms with the Selective Element Transporter...let's start calling it the SET because acronyms rock, especially here on Fishlore. Need to take a whiz and/or a poop? Just pop into the restroom, push the button and the SET empties your bladder and colon for you, beaming the unwanted material directly from your body to the chosen destination, no muss, no fuss. The home version of the device probably wouldn't have the power to send the goods all the way across the galaxy...but it should be easy to deliver the stuff into the sun, or the surface of Pluto (now that it's not a planet...why not?), or maybe your neighbour's swimming pool.

Oh, wait...I know! There's already a thread complaining that the anoxic aquarium filter is working too well, and the water is so nitrate-free that plants are dying. It's been decided that a new source of nitrates needs to be found that can be added into the water for the plants. The SET is the answer! It's so simple it's beautiful: take the water, send it through the RO device to de-mineralize it, then dump a bunch of store-bought chemicals into it to re-mineralize it back the way it was, then put it into the fish-tank, filter it the traditional way to get your nitrates accumulating, then do the anoxic boogie to get rid of those nitrates, and then buy a bag of fertilizer to put some nitrates back into the water. Doing that the old-fashioned way...you know, spending money on chemicals and gear, opening all those bags and bottles, measuring, dosing, etc...is probably almost as much physical effort as just changing water, so we can't have that. But the SET will let you just sit back and let it all happen with no work on your part.

We'd better patent this before API or SeaChem get their hooks into the idea...
!!!!!
 
But I don't want to change my water. Seriously I don't. I still do but probably not as often as I should. Lol. I can get away with though being so understocked.
 
But I don't want to change my water. Seriously I don't. I still do but probably not as often as I should. Lol. I can get away with though being so understocked.

I mean, a fish lives in dirty water in the wild so why do I have to clean my tank? If dirty water killed fish, then all the fish in the ocean would be dead! It's just a marketing scam from those big aquatics companies preying on us poor fish keepers!

 
Hahaha. I'm not too sure on that. I have a well so I don't even buy dechlorinator. No I have been doing this for years and my health got the best of me. I tested for all kinds of things and found with my stocking I can go monthly with water changes till anything changes. I fight with tds instead of nitrates. But shhhh don't tell anyone.
 
Years ago when I kept goldfish I was able to tell the health of the water by the taste. Every week I'd do a water change, and a little bit of tank water went in my mouth from the siphon. I could tell if there was was something wrong, and fix it before it became a problem (usually by doing a larger WC). Without water changes and other maintenance I wouldn't have a connection with my tank and it's inhabitants, I might as well just look at pictures of fish. People tend to forget by having an aquarium they are playing God. It's more than just providing a dog walks and food, they have to create and control the very environment around the fish.
 
One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't care about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.
What a great post! And it's so true. Thanks for an entertaining explanation on why we have to do water changes! Shelly
 
Everyone just needs a natural pond or lake to observe that water changes are NOT necessary! Because the water cycle brings rain in to top of the pond or lake, and everything runs fine all on its own without anyone taking water out... Right?
Oh wait... or is there something about lakes with no outlets that I'm forgetting??
Oh never mind, that's the Dead Sea, so lakes and ponds are totally fine without outlets so our tanks will obviously be fine without water changes.
Yup definitely.
 
What a great post! And it's so true. Thanks for an entertaining explanation on why we have to do water changes! Shelly
He does have a way with words and his way definitely gets straight to the point.
 

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What do you mean.. lugging those 5 gallon buckets is the best upper body workout you could get, cheaper than a used Nautilus that I'd probably just use as a clothes horse anyway. When I do water changes "I" feel cleaner cause my feet get wet too. So many great things about water changes.... I could go on and on. Personally I think it's the fluorescent pink and turquoise gravel that makes fish keepers not want to do water changes, the industry knows that if they make it bright enough peoples minds will be off the fish... cause that gravels just so darn purdy!
 
I appreciate the heart of the OP. I also want to take a minute to talk about accessibility in the industry/ hobby as it relates to advancements in technology.

I often find myself in awe of LFS and hobbyists who can afford to have auto-water change systems. I don’t think, on principle, anyone has a problem with making water changes easier with hooks and pumps and hoses.

If there were some inexpensive magic goo/filter box that could open up the hobby to independent people with limited mobility, so that they could enjoy fish keeping and need to change the water less often I think that would be awesome.

Advancements in technology that may seem lazy to able bodied people, are sometimes game changers for those who have mobility difficulties.

How many LFS are there that are not accessible to people in wheelchairs? My favorite LFS isn’t.

I think that sometimes if we look outside of our own abilities and think about advancements in technology, not as making US lazier, but instead, opening up the hobby to people with different access needs, that it can have a very positive outcome for someone in another situation.

I’m all for advancements in tech, that are good, and can perpetuate the love of fish keeping indefinitely.

Some day, I’ll be old, my joints will be arthritic, and lifting those five gallon buckets will be more of a challenge. I want to keep doing this as long as I am physically able, and if it meant healthy fish for 10 of 5 more years until I had to hang up my net for good, that would fill me with joy.
 
I appreciate the heart of the OP. I also want to take a minute to talk about accessibility in the industry/ hobby as it relates to advancements in technology.

I often find myself in awe of LFS and hobbyists who can afford to have auto-water change systems. I don’t think, on principle, anyone has a problem with making water changes easier with hooks and pumps and hoses.

If there were some inexpensive magic goo/filter box that could open up the hobby to independent people with limited mobility, so that they could enjoy fish keeping and need to change the water less often I think that would be awesome.

Advancements in technology that may seem lazy to able bodied people, are sometimes game changers for those who have mobility difficulties.

How many LFS are there that are not accessible to people in wheelchairs? My favorite LFS isn’t.

I think that sometimes if we look outside of our own abilities and think about advancements in technology, not as making US lazier, but instead, opening up the hobby to people with different access needs, that it can have a very positive outcome for someone in another situation.

I’m all for advancements in tech, that are good, and can perpetuate the love of fish keeping indefinitely.

Some day, I’ll be old, my joints will be arthritic, and lifting those five gallon buckets will be more of a challenge. I want to keep doing this as long as I am physically able, and if it meant healthy fish for 10 of 5 more years until I had to hang up my net for good, that would fill me with joy.
You bring up a good point- I’ve often wondered how an individual confined to a wheel chair would be able to do tank maintenance. So, in this case, a system that relied on less WC’s may prove beneficial. I think what a lot of posters here are saying that the NO WC crowd is relying on dubious science, and the fish pay the price.
 
I appreciate the heart of the OP. I also want to take a minute to talk about accessibility in the industry/ hobby as it relates to advancements in technology.

I often find myself in awe of LFS and hobbyists who can afford to have auto-water change systems. I don’t think, on principle, anyone has a problem with making water changes easier with hooks and pumps and hoses.

If there were some inexpensive magic goo/filter box that could open up the hobby to independent people with limited mobility, so that they could enjoy fish keeping and need to change the water less often I think that would be awesome.

Advancements in technology that may seem lazy to able bodied people, are sometimes game changers for those who have mobility difficulties.

How many LFS are there that are not accessible to people in wheelchairs? My favorite LFS isn’t.

I think that sometimes if we look outside of our own abilities and think about advancements in technology, not as making US lazier, but instead, opening up the hobby to people with different access needs, that it can have a very positive outcome for someone in another situation.

I’m all for advancements in tech, that are good, and can perpetuate the love of fish keeping indefinitely.

Some day, I’ll be old, my joints will be arthritic, and lifting those five gallon buckets will be more of a challenge. I want to keep doing this as long as I am physically able, and if it meant healthy fish for 10 of 5 more years until I had to hang up my net for good, that would fill me with joy.
Very good post, and something I had not considered. I'm 52 and yep, there are aches and pains. I'm not ancient by any means, except to maybe someone under 20 but the bending/lugging buckets can get pretty tiring, and I've got small (20 gallon and under) tanks! I've trimmed down my water change time and effort with many tips and tricks online, without which I might never have considered a 40 gallon.

It's also tougher for people who aren't handy or live in upstairs apartments (both me) or who live in small apartments. Water spillage is a big deal when you rent! Making it simpler and less messy is super helpful in these cases.

There's no way around water changes, but I feel it's in everyone's best interest to make them quick and easy! Is there a water change tips and tricks post around here somewhere?
 
You bring up a good point- I’ve often wondered how an individual confined to a wheel chair would be able to do tank maintenance. So, in this case, a system that relied on less WC’s may prove beneficial. I think what a lot of posters here are saying that the NO WC crowd is relying on dubious science, and the fish pay the price.
Agreed. Sometimes we have to wade through the dubious science to get to the good stuff.

A lot of money and time goes into both, unfortunately, and it does cost the lives of some fish. It’s an unfortunate reality of keeping things alive, we are fighting a battle that we will always lose, hopefully later, rather than sooner.

What we can do is amplify good science and practice and work to disprove the stuff that’s bad.

The easiest way- buy into tech that has a good scientific underpinning, and don’t buy from people who are practicing and promoting bad aquaculture.

But also know that what is considered “bad” changes with time as we learn more about our tank-ecosystems and that we need to be willing to change to do the best we can.
 
I don't understand this post. It read like an attack on advance fish keepers who don't do water changes by attacking novices who want to do the same.
 
One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't care about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.
Heres a simple and cheap solution! Don't want to do the work? Dont get the animal
 
I appreciate the heart of the OP. I also want to take a minute to talk about accessibility in the industry/ hobby as it relates to advancements in technology.

I often find myself in awe of LFS and hobbyists who can afford to have auto-water change systems. I don’t think, on principle, anyone has a problem with making water changes easier with hooks and pumps and hoses.

If there were some inexpensive magic goo/filter box that could open up the hobby to independent people with limited mobility, so that they could enjoy fish keeping and need to change the water less often I think that would be awesome.

Advancements in technology that may seem lazy to able bodied people, are sometimes game changers for those who have mobility difficulties.

How many LFS are there that are not accessible to people in wheelchairs? My favorite LFS isn’t.

I think that sometimes if we look outside of our own abilities and think about advancements in technology, not as making US lazier, but instead, opening up the hobby to people with different access needs, that it can have a very positive outcome for someone in another situation.

I’m all for advancements in tech, that are good, and can perpetuate the love of fish keeping indefinitely.

Some day, I’ll be old, my joints will be arthritic, and lifting those five gallon buckets will be more of a challenge. I want to keep doing this as long as I am physically able, and if it meant healthy fish for 10 of 5 more years until I had to hang up my net for good, that would fill me with joy.

Thanks for saying this. I wasn't going to say anything, because, battles to be chosen and all that, and I wasn't going to finish readin the thread because of the ableism, but I read to see if anyone would say anything about that. And you did. I just want you to know that I appreciate it, and I'm sure there are other disabled people who feel the same. <3

I understand the desire to go off about someone who gets on my last nerve, but we all need to see if we're stomping on others inadvertently (or vertently whatever lol) when we want to make fun of someone or groups of people.

p. s. i've never seen an accessible lfs. I have to get ppl to go with me to open the doors.

I don't understand this post. It read like an attack on advance fish keepers who don't do water changes by attacking novices who want to do the same.

I felt the same way.
 
In my largest aquarium I have a lot of plants, a full carpet of dwarf hair grass with hundreds of snails and dozens of shrimps and only a couple of dozen white cloud mountain minnows,

I had been doing the usual 25% water changes every week for ages but when I went away for a few weeks I had to miss a couple,

I checked the water when I got back expecting to have to do a larger water change than normal but found that the ammonia levels were 0 which is odd as my usual fresh water registers a small amount of ammonia.

The PH was 6.5 but the co2 was almost non existent, as the plants have all grown as much as I want I didn't bother to connect up a fresh co2 bottle to see if they would stabilise.

I haven't done a water change in months now and I test it every week without any change from the above parameters and the plants haven't died.

I just couldn't see the reason to change perfectly good water with "Fresh" water that was more acidic and had higher ammonia levels.

I haven't cleaned the glass and it's crystal clear as is the water, any waste the snails and shrimps miss just settles into the soil and seems to break down pretty quick.

Everything seems fine, but I am no expert or anything just going to keep checking everything regularly.

Ended up with a non intentional almost 0 maintenance aquarium at little cost, I just rinse out the filter foams in tank water from my other tanks about once a month.

Maybe a no water change aquarium is as simple as lots of plants in soil, a good shrimp , snail clean up crew and fish that produce little waste.

20190718_200734.jpg photo of my unintentional 0 maintenance tank from my above post.
 

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In my largest aquarium I have a lot of plants, a full carpet of dwarf hair grass with hundreds of snails and dozens of shrimps and only a couple of dozen white cloud mountain minnows,

I had been doing the usual 25% water changes every week for ages but when I went away for a few weeks I had to miss a couple,

I checked the water when I got back expecting to have to do a larger water change than normal but found that the ammonia levels were 0 which is odd as my usual fresh water registers a small amount of ammonia.

The PH was 6.5 but the co2 was almost non existent, as the plants have all grown as much as I want I didn't bother to connect up a fresh co2 bottle to see if they would stabilise.

I haven't done a water change in months now and I test it every week without any change from the above parameters and the plants haven't died.

I just couldn't see the reason to change perfectly good water with "Fresh" water that was more acidic and had higher ammonia levels.

I haven't cleaned the glass and it's crystal clear as is the water, any waste the snails and shrimps miss just settles into the soil and seems to break down pretty quick.

Everything seems fine, but I am no expert or anything just going to keep checking everything regularly.

Ended up with a non intentional almost 0 maintenance aquarium at little cost, I just rinse out the filter foams in tank water from my other tanks about once a month.

Maybe a no water change aquarium is as simple as lots of plants in soil, a good shrimp , snail clean up crew and fish that produce little waste.

View attachment 573709 photo of my unintentional 0 maintenance tank from my above post.
Lovely tank.

There’s a fish store in San Francisco (Ocean Aquarium) that never does water changes. They rely on a thick level of substrate and tons of plants. That’s not to say there’s no maintenance. I want to talk to the owner next time I’m in the city and hear about his experience and knowledge about the subject.
 
Lovely tank.

There’s a fish store in San Francisco (Ocean Aquarium) that never does water changes. They rely on a thick level of substrate and tons of plants. That’s not to say there’s no maintenance. I want to talk to the owner next time I’m in the city and hear about his experience and knowledge about the subject.

Thanks

I would be interested to hear a profesional aquarium shop owners opinion on this as I am thinking of doing this same thing with my other 4 smaller tanks, I presume there will be an optimal fish, plant, water ratio and have tried researching it but there is so much contradictory information on different forums and websites it's pretty hard to figure out,

I don't want to experiment on my fish so I want to be pretty sure before I try anything new.

This current low maintenance tank was more of an accident than intentional so not sure if I can recreate the conditions again.

Not true 0 maintenance as I do have to trim the faster growing plants about once a month but that's only 5 minute ish

I am lucky enough to have a local aquarium that tests tank water for free and my water improved after I stopped doing changes not just with less ammonia but less metals and a better balance of minerals.

Of course this could just be a fluke so wouldn't reccomend anyone else try it without doing some major research.

I do add calcium stones for my shelled friends once in a while as that's the only mineral that seems to need replenishing regularly, snails just keep making more snails and the shrimps like to shed every few months.
 
I do 50% water changes twice a week, my fish love it, my plants love it and I must say I love doing it.
 
Even in lakes and ponds with no outlet, there is always fresh clean water coming in. These bodies of water are ground water fed and there is a constant exchange going on. This no water change thing is for those who need to feel a sense of accomplishment at making it work. Most are not successful and a lot have success for a while and then it all breaks down.
 
To me no water changes is a pipe dream. Low maintenance isn't hard but after using all the test equipment from were I used to work I see a rise in tds and a decrece in dissolved oxygen after a month. The dissolved organics show a rise too. Now if I kept pushing it I would expect my ph to start going down too.
 
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  • #37
I appreciate the heart of the OP. I also want to take a minute to talk about accessibility in the industry/ hobby as it relates to advancements in technology.

I often find myself in awe of LFS and hobbyists who can afford to have auto-water change systems. I don’t think, on principle, anyone has a problem with making water changes easier with hooks and pumps and hoses.

If there were some inexpensive magic goo/filter box that could open up the hobby to independent people with limited mobility, so that they could enjoy fish keeping and need to change the water less often I think that would be awesome.

Advancements in technology that may seem lazy to able bodied people, are sometimes game changers for those who have mobility difficulties.

How many LFS are there that are not accessible to people in wheelchairs? My favorite LFS isn’t.

I think that sometimes if we look outside of our own abilities and think about advancements in technology, not as making US lazier, but instead, opening up the hobby to people with different access needs, that it can have a very positive outcome for someone in another situation.

I’m all for advancements in tech, that are good, and can perpetuate the love of fish keeping indefinitely.

Some day, I’ll be old, my joints will be arthritic, and lifting those five gallon buckets will be more of a challenge. I want to keep doing this as long as I am physically able, and if it meant healthy fish for 10 of 5 more years until I had to hang up my net for good, that would fill me with joy.

My sincere apologies if my post came across as an accusation of laziness as the only reason for not changing water...and in reading over it I can see how it could be taken that way. I do understand that some folk simply cannot do the back-breaking labour of slugging heavy containers of water to and from their tanks; but it saddens me to see them being taken in by the claims of a few who seem to see the opportunity to market an idea (and, of course, all the peripherals and supplies that go with that idea...). I really think that the effort, time and money spent on unproven and usually unsuccessful new technologies like small-scale "anoxic filtration" for home aquariums would be better expended on simple mechanisms to do the work for you. There are many reasons why a person would want to avoid the labour inherent in transporting large quantities of water on a regular basis, but it is my belief that doing these changes is essential for long-term success with the vast majority of aquariums.

I don't understand this post. It read like an attack on advance fish keepers who don't do water changes by attacking novices who want to do the same.

I think this is going a little too far. I certainly don't know personally of any "advanced" fish keepers who don't practice a regimen of water changes. They must exist, this thread is proof of that, but they are a tiny minority. Novices can, very understandably, gravitate towards the Holy Grail of never changing water, especially when it is presented so enticingly and convincingly by hucksters out to make a buck. If this was an "attack", it was aimed at the snake-oil salesmen, rather than their unsuspecting customers.

Thanks for saying this. I wasn't going to say anything, because, battles to be chosen and all that, and I wasn't going to finish readin the thread because of the ableism, but I read to see if anyone would say anything about that. And you did. I just want you to know that I appreciate it, and I'm sure there are other disabled people who feel the same. <3

I understand the desire to go off about someone who gets on my last nerve, but we all need to see if we're stomping on others inadvertently (or vertently whatever lol) when we want to make fun of someone or groups of people.

p. s. i've never seen an accessible lfs. I have to get ppl to go with me to open the doors.

And I definitely think this is going too far. Accusing me of discrimination for pointing out that water changes are needed is more than a bit ridiculous. If you feel that I am wrong in my belief, then by all means feel free to find those few examples of long-term successful aquariums that are maintained without changing water. But don't raise the spectre of "ableism".

A combination of age and the aftereffects of a serious automobile accident in my past have left me unable to do many of the things that I once could. I've given up a lot of activities, but I still do frequent and large-scale water changes on several hundred gallons of aquariums, and I no longer ever need to lift a bucket. Until recently I had one small tank in my library which, due to its location, still required the water to be changed via buckets...not even a Python, which is untenable when using a well for water and a pressure tank to distribute it, but siphons and buckets. I am pleased to be able to state that a bit of DIY carpentry and plumbing now allow this tank to be done in the same fashion as all the others; i.e. with hoses, valves and pumps. I like the DIY way of solving problems, but if that's not your cup of tea, a small-scale contractor or handy-man can make the necessary changes for you.

Winston Churchill said it perfectly: "It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required."
 
My local PetSmart has a large ramp in front of the doors for deliveries. The doors also will automatically open.
 
I have found in this politically correct world we find ourselves living in even the most innocent comment will be taken as an attack by some.

I took this thread at face value. If there was an attack at all it was aimed at those that make money trying to convince folks that their new and improved method of fish keeping involves no or very little changing of the water. In the end a lot of folks that attempt these methods will fail and the fish will pay the price.
 
Sorry if my sarcastic attempt at humor in my earlier post was hurtful in any way. I didn't intend that. I probably should have gone with a more informative response rather than a sarcastic contrast.

Even in lakes and ponds with no outlet, there is always fresh clean water coming in. These bodies of water are ground water fed and there is a constant exchange going on. This no water change thing is for those who need to feel a sense of accomplishment at making it work. Most are not successful and a lot have success for a while and then it all breaks down.
You are correct about the constant inflow of water into many lakes and ponds bringing fresh water, but unless these also have an outflow eventually the dissolved minerals and particularly the salts will build up to levels that begin to have adverse effects on many of the plants and animals. This can take many many decades depending on the geological makeup of the rocks that the water flows through or over. Also many water bodies that do not have any permanent outlet do occasionally experience heavy enough inflow, during storm events, to raise the typical level high enough to create an outflow briefly thereby giving the water body a "water change" in the process and resetting the whole system. Also many times water bodies do have underground outlets that constantly flush out water along with the dissolved minerals and salts. (Oceans have underwater "outlets" in the form of subduction zones where the sea floor returns to the earths molten magma and is recycled into mountains eventually, and products are also removed by animals and by us and deposited onto land where they begin the processes of returning to the oceans eventually).

If a water body truly has no outlet, the only way that water leaves it is through evaporation. Evaporation causes the minerals and salts to be concentrated within the lake or pond and those levels do eventually build up to a point that most lifeforms can no longer survive. This usually does not happen because the geology changes at some point and an outlet forms above or below ground.

Our aquariums are so tiny in comparison that unless we happen to have extremely pure water to put in they will build up unhealthy levels of something eventually. It may be a very long time before that happens if we are fortunate enough to have very pure water. The waste produced by the fish will increase the risk of reaching unhealthy levels of various elements. A balanced ecosystem will help prevent this, but these ecosystems are not built up overnight and prior to them reaching a healthy sustainability they likely will have to go through a time period where waste produced by the fish will need to be managed by removing water and waste occasionally.

The individuals who practice keeping no water change aquariums are in fact removing small amounts of these salts and minerals and chemicals that build up. They do this when they remove plants during trimming and when they remove a dead fish or snail, as any minerals or salts that these have accumulated over their lifetime will be removed from the aquarium system along with them. They also may be breaking down the aquarium to change the entire aquascape before the levels reach a dangerous point, this is a water change. They are likely scrubbing the glass of the aquarium at some point and a tiny amount of the built up minerals and salts etc. deposited on the glass will come out of the aquarium on the scrubber. If they ever remove and rinse filter media they are removing some of the built up salts and minerals and organics. I doubt that there are many tanks that are set up and then never have anything taken out of them at some point.

An individual with high mineral and salt content in their water supply who puts everything into the tank but never takes anything out of the tank will end up having an unhealthy tank much sooner. If they just let the plants grow until they fill the entire tank and begin to decay, livestock will not be able to keep up with eating this, and they do not remove any livestock that die they end up with an unhealthy tank. They will continue to put water in, to replace what evaporates, and they continue to put fish food in and perhaps other things like medications or water treatments or fertilizer, and these all build up. They likely will not have the diversity of lifeforms that would help the system remain somewhat balanced for a longer time, so they will end up with an unhealthy tank sooner. This will all result in stress on the fish and other lifeforms in the tank and eventually lead to shortening the lifespan of these animals. Ultimately they will have a failed tank and will have to start over.

It is possible to have a tank that you do not take water out of but this will only last for so long and then unhealthy conditions will develop.

The fish and other critters need our care to give them healthy conditions.
 
One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't care about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.

Hello jj...

The "no water change" tank has been available for many years. I've had some running for years without the dreaded water change. They're not going to fail, trust me. As long as you understand the water chemistry and what the fish require for good health, even you can have one in your house.

Have fun!

Old
 

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I haven't done a water change on any of my tanks since 2013(one exception, much to my chagrin, I had to do 1 WC a couple years back when a baby dumped a bunch of food in). my Discus and Angels lay eggs, my neons and cardinals lived for +6 years(they finally started to die off earlier this year), my rasboras are still alive. my cories breed. my EB rams breed. my EB Jack Dempseys breed. CAVEAT! Not changing your tanks' water isn't for novices or even the vast majority of "experienced" fishkeepers, you have got to be a scientist on another level and beat down certain neurotic OCD tendencies, not everyone has that kind of patience. You just have to know what you are doing, not just pray to the fish gods.
 
Next week I will be taking the water change to a whole new level on my original aquarium Ordinary basic water changes are simply not working the way they should

Its going to be an Extreme Makeover Fish Style

I love my Cory family, they are AWESOME! however, I am not so happy with the amount of exposed sand (and the sand storms that happen when they start digging & faceplanting) or the hordes of snails still breeding on the live plants despite 4 x 3 day anti-snail treatments

So next week, half the water will go, the live plants will be gone, the existing sand & gravel will be cleaned and then covered with new gravel and a new aquascape with artificial plants will be done

Then once all is in place the water will be replaced.......the fishies will not be impressed with me as they shall be staying in the aquarium during renovations but needs must and all that....Cory + sand = absolute cleaning nightmare (and the filter ain't too happy either) .....sulking fish and probably some Cory rumpy pumpy once done, but it'll all be worth it
 
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  • #44
There is a vast difference between a true no-water-change tank...and a tank that never gets a water change.

The former is exceptionally rare, but I'm sure it exists. I'll never have one and won't try to.

The latter is everywhere and is often mistaken for the former, usually by its owner.
 
I have a question for the three of you that've said you manage a no water change tank, so JohnClinch oldsalt777 and Kasshan
How do you solve the problem of TDS going up and up with all the nutrients and minerals in the having to eventually be replenished? Or rather, what is your tap TDS and what is it in the tank? Where do things like hormones and pheromones go since they can't be tested for and thus we can never know the exact amount in our tanks?
 
One of my pet peeves...and, yes, I do have a lot of them; what's it to ya? ...is the constantly recurring theme of "no-water-change aquariums"...or, as I think of them, aquariums that haven't failed yet.

We read over and over about the wonderful, magical properties of anaerobic bacteria that chew up nitrates like candy. The currently more popular word to use is "anoxic" which for our purposes means the same thing, but it just sounds so cool and scientifical-like. Anaerobic is old hat; ya gotta go anoxic or you're just not in the loop.

The fellow with the most popular videos likes to re-purpose words in that fashion. Another favourite is "biocenosis" as in Biocenosis Clarification Basket, or BCB. You know when you get an acronym that your idea is going places. I'm sure we all understand the definition of "clarification". Try looking up "biocenosis" and you may be surprised to discover that it simply refers to an interconnected biological system of a number of different species. In other words...it's just a general term that he has linked up with a couple of other general terms to come up with a supposedly-impressive-sounding new technology.

Back when the undergravel filter was new and ground-breaking, the tech was sold to us in much the same way. It was a filter that "never needed cleaning"...but in actuality it was a filter that would function as intended long enough for the makers to sell a boatload of them before people figured out that there was nothing magical or even new about the idea. The best thing about undergravel filters was the fact that they introduced the average aquarist to the notion that bacteria could be good; most had never heard of the idea of biological filtration, so the UG filter craze thrust this concept into the general awareness of the aquarium world. And look what happened! Today the "nitrogen cycle" is something that everyone in the hobby has heard of. Some of them even have an idea of how it works.

But it's not really a "cycle", is it? I mean, the food goes in, the poop comes out, the bacteria chow down on it and convert it through the stages...and then those pesky nitrates keep on accumulating and accumulating at the end, with nothing "cyclical" about. So folks like the used car salesman noted above decide it's time to expand our horizons and introduce a way to continue the cycle a bit further, and completely release that nitrogen from our lives and tanks. So they sell us on BCB's and kitty litter and Matrix and all the other goodies that are designed to foster this new and wonderful type of bacteria. It's all still pretty mysterious; when asked for specifics like "what flow rate should be present in the anoxic filter bed", the answer is something nebulous like "slow". Wow...that's helpful. Too fast, and we will end up growing those old-style aerobic bacteria in there...you know, the ones that we pursued for decades and still need today. Too slow, and we might get the terrifying "anaerobic" conditions that will result in pockets of noxious gas, loss of vision, financial instability and whatever else they do when they aren't doing what we want them to do.

Now, a technology-minded person might be attracted to this idea simply because it is something new and different, and getting it to work is in itself a satisfying goal. Nothing wrong with that, although I always have nagging ethical doubts about experiments which can kill living critters if they go wrong. Some...a few...of the techies get the plan to work; these wunderkind are held up as examples of the validity of the concept. Nothing much is said about the many others who give up partway through, hopefully before too many fish lose their lives. And nothing at all is said about the other reasons for changing water, i.e. trace elements and the host of other possible changes that it undergoes when fish live, breathe, eat and poop in it for days, weeks, months...

The biggest problem is the beginners who scan a few paragraphs and lock on to the phrase "no water changes". They don't care about how it is supposed to work; they just don't want to carry buckets. Their wood floors are too shiny; they can't connect the hose to their faucets; they don't have the time; they need to de-mineralize, then re-mineralize, then reverse-osmose, then alter the pH, the hardness, the TDS and whatever else they can think of, and it is just too much dang work. They want the no-effort aquarium, and they want it now.

Let's get the techies to work on the real solution; the Selective Element Transporter device. Fill the tank with clean water, throw in a few fish, set the controls on the machine for the exact chemical composition you want to keep it at, and press the button. The machine will instantly monitor the make-up of the water and then remove whatever isn't wanted (nitrates, phosphates, excess CO2, etc.) by teleportation. Maybe the unwanted waste material can be made to re-appear in a collection bucket of some kind, so that it can be re-used as garden fertilizer or landfill or perhaps in Vegan cooking.

But until that happens...until we have complete mastery over and control of all the natural processes that are at play in aquarium water (or, in other words, never...)...perhaps we should just accept that the best, simplest, most foolproof method for maintaining healthy fish and healthy water is to do water changes. If you don't want to do that, maybe you should re-consider the aquarium hobby.
This is so true, when I started my 90 gallon I was spending a lot of time testing, vacuuming, water changes, and treating the occasional sick fish in my 10 gallon that I also kept pristine and my mother in law told me it was silly and I didn’t need to do all that. It kind of made me mad. She had fish tanks in the past and I had to wonder what shape her poor fish must have been in. In my opinion, you should never have a pet if you’re not willing to put the time and money into it. It’s like getting a puppy and not getting it’s shots or walking it or giving it attention. I have seen a few videos of people rescuing dogs being tied to trees by a short rope for years with no attention, no shelter, no exercise, no care at all except the occasional food and water. People feel so badly and react to these videos but give no thought to fish being kept the same way. Many people also overcrowd or put large fish in small inappropriate tanks with minimal or no filtration or no heater. Niece put a betta in a tank not much bigger than the cup he came in. No filter or heater and no cycling. She didn’t even have dechlor or prime etc. I tried to teach her but she didn’t listen and the fish lived about 10 days. Very sad. Thank you for this post.
 
I tend to follow the 'original' model (lakes, ponds, rivers, streams) of maintaining my tiny aquatic ecosystems where fish fluorish best... with water changes! No natural aquatic system on earth (at least none we've found) support fish for long without fresh replacement, dilution and augmentation of their water whether it be with rainfall, runoff, feeder streams and rivers etc. Pretty arrogant of us to think we can 'fix' a problem that isn't a problem...
 
Lovely tank.

There’s a fish store in San Francisco (Ocean Aquarium) that never does water changes. They rely on a thick level of substrate and tons of plants. That’s not to say there’s no maintenance. I want to talk to the owner next time I’m in the city and hear about his experience and knowledge about the subject.
Great YouTube video out there that gives a tour of the store. It is pretty amazing.
 
Even in lakes and ponds with no outlet, there is always fresh clean water coming in. These bodies of water are ground water fed and there is a constant exchange going on. This no water change thing is for those who need to feel a sense of accomplishment at making it work. Most are not successful and a lot have success for a while and then it all breaks down.
Right, but any body of water with "no outlet" will ultimately become so toxic it won't support life. UNLESS DI/RO water and replacement minerals are added. Even then, without a fresh water exchange once in awhile, keeping a balance would be difficult if not impossible over time. Sure, like many of the "no water change" people do, if you cram your tank full of plants and only have a handful of low bioload fish in the tank, you can probably go a long time without a massive nitrate accumulation. And if your tanks are sealed so nearly no evaporation occurs, even better! But I guess my deal is that I like to see and interact with my fish. So I have tanks with a few plants and lots of pretty fish and I have roses and irisis. I water- my roses and irisis with the nitrogen rich water my fish provide and give the fish fresh water back, so I can continue to have lots of pretty fish I can see and interact with...
 
I don’t think something has to be intentionally ableist to be ableist, and we can certainly discriminate without being aware of it. It doesn’t mean that we’re evil, but that we weren’t thinking about it.

For the most part, as someone who has good mobility (except for a thumb that sometimes lets go when i’m holding a bucket) I take for granted that the people i’m talking to are like me, but there are probably more people in this group that are different from me than are alike me.

One of the reasons someone might not want to speak up in a situation is because people get defensive. Someone saying “hey this thread is ableist” is not saying “Hey, you’re all jerks.”

It’s saying, “Hey this is a huge community and we’re all different, so let’s make it so everyone who likes fish and wants to talk about fish feels comfortable doing so.

Because that’s what we’re here to do.

My sincere apologies if my post came across as an accusation of laziness as the only reason for not changing water...and in reading over it I can see how it could be taken that way. I do understand that some folk simply cannot do the back-breaking labour of slugging heavy containers of water to and from their tanks; but it saddens me to see them being taken in by the claims of a few who seem to see the opportunity to market an idea (and, of course, all the peripherals and supplies that go with that idea...). I really think that the effort, time and money spent on unproven and usually unsuccessful new technologies like small-scale "anoxic filtration" for home aquariums would be better expended on simple mechanisms to do the work for you. There are many reasons why a person would want to avoid the labour inherent in transporting large quantities of water on a regular basis, but it is my belief that doing these changes is essential for long-term success with the vast majority of aquariums.



I think this is going a little too far. I certainly don't know personally of any "advanced" fish keepers who don't practice a regimen of water changes. They must exist, this thread is proof of that, but they are a tiny minority. Novices can, very understandably, gravitate towards the Holy Grail of never changing water, especially when it is presented so enticingly and convincingly by hucksters out to make a buck. If this was an "attack", it was aimed at the snake-oil salesmen, rather than their unsuspecting customers.



And I definitely think this is going too far. Accusing me of discrimination for pointing out that water changes are needed is more than a bit ridiculous. If you feel that I am wrong in my belief, then by all means feel free to find those few examples of long-term successful aquariums that are maintained without changing water. But don't raise the spectre of "ableism".

A combination of age and the aftereffects of a serious automobile accident in my past have left me unable to do many of the things that I once could. I've given up a lot of activities, but I still do frequent and large-scale water changes on several hundred gallons of aquariums, and I no longer ever need to lift a bucket. Until recently I had one small tank in my library which, due to its location, still required the water to be changed via buckets...not even a Python, which is untenable when using a well for water and a pressure tank to distribute it, but siphons and buckets. I am pleased to be able to state that a bit of DIY carpentry and plumbing now allow this tank to be done in the same fashion as all the others; i.e. with hoses, valves and pumps. I like the DIY way of solving problems, but if that's not your cup of tea, a small-scale contractor or handy-man can make the necessary changes for you.

Winston Churchill said it perfectly: "It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required."
 

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