Betta Sorority Problems

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  • #51
I think some of the white spots on Smaug are actually getting worse. They look smooth and not fuzzy. I'm not really sure what it could be considering it's gotten worse since I started medicating. Also a bit worse on Akantosh.

I did my best to get a pic of it.



I can't find any pics on google that look much like that, so I'm not sure what to do... It kinda looks like the upper tip was dipped in whip cream and then some melted down, causing a little snail trail of discoloration.
 

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It's hard to tell from the picture, but it wouldn't be caused by the meds
 
I can't really see it either. Did he have any damage to his fin there before? Even a tiny tear? It could be healing fin tissue, that's whitish. Or it's also possible that he's got marble genes and is changing colour!

Just to be sure, I thought the betta with the white marks was a male? The one in the picture looks female.
 
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  • #55
Huh. The white seemed to be getting worse but now I don't see it at all. It's a bit hard to tell because that medication is making the water pretty green and cloudy.

If she did have damage before, I couldn't really tell. It's hard for me to tell what's what with all the different colors and fin shapes. It probably was just growing. It's really confusing when you're both paranoid and there's actually something wrong.

And no. All my bettas are female. The only who I know to be male is Moby the paradise fish, who is currently in an 8 gallon. I plan to try to put him in the 40 gallon when everything settles down, and see if he fits in okay enough. He got along with the first betta I had in the 10 gallon, but I moved him when I got cherry shrimp and I knew he'd eat them. The betta ate them all anyways though.

Also. I tested the water in the crab tank and it's just slightly below 1% salt. So, it probably is enough to kill coulmaris bacteria. So, I'm kinda use gonna use it as a QT. Probably isn't necessary right now with the the big tank being medicated.
But I put the double tail that was in it along with another one I got at petco that was in it, into the big tank that's being medicated to disperse the fighting. And I got some more bettas that are now in the crab tank. I'll move them to the big tank tomorrow probably.

But yeah. Now that Smaug suddenly looks fine, all seems to be going well now. I'll let you know if any new problems come up.

Thank you again! :3
 
Just fyi, 1% salt is really high for any fresh water fish. The most you normally see fresh water fish in ever is .1%-.3%. That would be at least three times more than the minimum if its at 1%. Its usually ok for a 15 minute dip or something but I wouldn't leave any fish in there long, it will dehydrate them.
 

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  • #57
I asked my boyfriend about the salt thing since he's the one that put it in, and I told him to add half of what it says on the package for fresh water. I guess he said less than 1% because there are no readings between 0 and 1 percent. So, all we really know is it's not zero and it's not one. Either way. The fish all seemed active and healthy in crab tank...

But, I just got home and, in the big tank, noticed three bettas hanging out together at the surface with clamped fins. Then I saw a dead tetra in the back. And there's another tetra that seems to be having a hard time with not being upside down... Basically all the fish seem sick... It's like past midnight and I'm not sure what is wrong. I would do an ammonia test, but the Furan has made the water very green, so I don't know how I could possibly read the results... But we're doing a 25%-40% water change.

I did 4 total days of Furan 2, which is all the package says to do. I think I'm going to stop dosing with that and only continue the Maracyn now. I only have one more dose worth of furan anyways.

Every time I think it's working out, it stops working out. :|
 
I'm sorry, it is a difficult and frustrating bacteria to deal with. Yeah, I would keep dosing the Maracyn II for the full ten days and honestly if you are still losing fish I would switch then to kanaplex for another 10.

Hang in there :console:
 
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  • #59
When I woke up, the cory was dead, and the rest of the tetras were too. The bettas don't look good at all.

I think it's the medicine. It just seems weird for them all to get sick from the disease at the same time. Even the ones just added yesterday got sick at the same time. Plus, when I mean same time, I mean like, in the same hours. I dosed then left for a few hours. It just seems to weird for all of them to get sick at the exact same time, with no variation due to exposure time.

We did another change though. Like, 40-50%. And dosed with Prime instead of stress coat in case it's ammonia. I'm just a bit afraid to do another does of maracyn in it, because I have to leave again today. But I know I should because anti-biotics require you to take all doses. But it seems counter intuitive since we did all those water changes.
 
I dosed Maracyn II for 10 days with no issues. I don't think its the maracyn if you're following the directions.

Have you checked your ammonia and nitrites?
 
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  • #61
I have followed the directions. The only thing I can think of that might not part of the directions is leaving the filter thing in it.

And I can't really test those. I can't really tell if the water turns green since it's already a bit green. The water changes helped a lot with the greenness but, it's still to much for me to tell. I think the fish might be feeling a tad better, but some are still kinda floating at the surface. Not like dead. Just sitting up there, looking miserable.

I might be able to use a test strip for the nitrites since those tests aren't adding color to a colored water sample. But I'm not home right now and I won't have a chance to pick up any until tomorrow. I don't think I've seen test strips for ammonia though.

But when I get home, I think I'll do a half dose of the maracyn. And if it doesn't seem like that made them all sicker again, I'll do a full dose the next day. Unless you really think I should just do a full dose.

I know it's probably not the maracyn. But it's definitely something wrong with the water. It was like, they were fine. I put two new Bettas in. Did the daily does. Then 4 hours later every one, including the newly added ones were sick. So. It's gotta be ammonia, the furan, or something like that.
 

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What filter thing did you leave in? Did you remove carbon?
 
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  • #63
The filter cartridge thing. The square fuzzy thing. It's been in that tank for almost 5 weeks now... I thought it was okay to leave it in. Should I take it out?
 
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  • #64
I got home like 20 mins ago.

They seem to be feeling better. Only one has clamped fins. And she's no longer right at the surface, but instead is hanging out an inch below it.
One was on the ground, and I thought she was dead. But ten mins ago she started swimming around.

I'm just not going to dose them tonight and do it first thing in the morning so I can monitor them.

But. My shrimp is fine. I got it a week after I got my 10 gallon, and someone on Reddit accused me of animal abuse for getting it before my tank cycled because they are extremely sensitive to ammonia, and insisted I do three water changes a day until my tank cycled. So, if they really are that sensitive, and it is alive, it makes me think it wasn't ammonia that killed the others.

But that person may have been crazy, and some forums say the medications can harm the bio filters and cause ammonia spikes. If that's the case, I'll probably steal my moms filter cartridge when I'm done medicating and but extra cycle booster stuff that probably won't actually help.

I wish fish could talk and tell me what's wrong.
 
Rather than taking your mom's filter cartridge, which she needs for her own cycle, why don't you put an extra cartridge in her filter for when you need it?
 
I didn't lose any part of my cycle with the exact same meds so I would just keep monitoring your ammonia and nitrites while medicating. Sometimes they feel when being medicated but it still gets rid of the disease and should not hurt them on its own.

I like Aquaphobia's idea. Don't leave your mom without a cycled cartridge.
 
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  • #67

Yeah. If I took hers, I was gonna take her fish too though. It's my fish, but it's staying in that tank until I find a good fit for it. But, that's a very good idea.

I also have a big bottle of quick start, and a bio-rock thing that's supposed to have good bacteria in it. I'm just waiting for the medication to be over to add it.


Yeah. I know. But, when my ten gallon wasn't cycled, it would take at least a week after a 30% water change to reach .25 ammonia. The 40 gallon had the same amount of fish plus 2 bettas (and another 2 that had only been in there half a day). So, it's far fewer fish per gallon. And, we had did a 25% water change the day before. So, it seems unlikely to me that it was ammonia.

Plus, I've seen those fish in 1ppm ammonia (someone on here a long time ago told me to let it reach there to cycle the 10g, while using Prime and that did the trick in no time). And even at 1ppm, they seemed fine.

So, it seems a bit unlikely that the day after a water change it went above 1ppm, even if the medication killed the cycle. But, I know it's not impossible that's what happened.

And I know it didn't mess with your cycle, but it could be because your tank is very established. Like, some people can tank antibiotics without problem, and others, it kills bacteria in their stomach and makes them lactose intolerance. And my tank seemed to had just recently began reading 0 ammonia and 5 nitrates, before medicating.


Another possibly though might have been an overdose of maracyn, because there's 4 missing packets. The first day you double the dose, and I have dosed a total of 5 days, So, that's 24 packets. I bought two boxes each with 24 in it. But, I only see one box, and I only counted 20 packets. It's possible the other box is hiding here somewhere with 4 packets. I asked my boyfriend if he condensed the packets to one box and he doesn't remember. He's the one who dosed the tank on Saturday.
But. I'm not sure if 2x the does could do that, just because you do that the first day anyways. Plus, he says he defiantly only put 4 packets in. (But he also left my wine in the freezer, so he's error prone.)

But. I just had an idea. Maybe I can get one of those bottles at the pet store that clear cloudiness and discoloration. I'm not sure I should put it in the tank, but I could put it in the water sample, so it clears and I can read the test results. Unless you think it could effect the results.




And. I just want to say, whatever it was, everyone is doing better now. And although I enjoyed the tetras, and cory, it's kinda nice only having one species to worry about now. (still can't use all types of meds because of the snail and shrimp, that I'd never ever be able to catch to remove). And the new fish seem to be getting along well.
 
I'm glad they all seem to be doing better!

Plus, I've seen those fish in 1ppm ammonia (someone on here a long time ago told me to let it reach there to cycle the 10g, while using Prime and that did the trick in no time). And even at 1ppm, they seemed fine.
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This is accurate advice because when you use prime it detoxifies or puts ammonia into an ammonium state rendering it harmless for 24-48 hours. That's why your fish were fine
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #69
Thank you.

But I was using primer when we did the change on Friday, then fish got sick on Saturday. I switched from stress coat just in case the meds were messing with the good bacteria.

So, I'm pretty baffled. I don't want it to happen again, but I can't prevent it without knowing what it was. >.<

Just in case though, should I add more Prime in today? Since it was two days ago that I did the water change and added it.
 
Prime is just a water conditioner but it also takes care of ammonia and nitrites up to 1.0. Any day you have readings for either I would dose prime for the full volume of the tank.

Your columnaris is unrelated to water quality issues as its a bacterial disease.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #71
I know they're unrelated in that sense. But. The water quality is related to the good bacteria, and that could be effected by medication, which is caused by the disease. Also, I suppose it's possible, since it grew on the fake plants, that the bacteria of the disease sorta outgrew the good bacteria. Sorta like weeds in a garden that steal nutrients from the other plants.

But that doesn't matter because I don't have a way to know. All speculation.


Thanks for the advice though. I need to figure out the measurement of 80 drops so I don't have to count them every time. :3
 

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Your good bacteria, nitrifyers for the most part live in your filter media. It is true that they are in competition for space but mostly with the hetertrophic bacteria (the kind that consume organics). They will both try and live on all surfaces. The bacteria in disease and columnaris also live on organics, i.e., fish flesh but I don't believe would be able to live long without a host, just water borne.

Anyways, this may help A teaspoon or 5ml of prime treats 50g, 1/2 tsp- 25g, 1/4tsp 12g etc. You don't have to be exact, a little over is always fine.
 
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  • #73
Actually. I can be pretty exact. I have a syring thingie for getting 5ml of tank water to test. And 40 gallon is 80% of 50g. So, 80% of 5ml would be 4ml. Sweet. Thank you.

Something weird and new is happening though. So, every time I've dosed the water, it got more and more cloudy. The only time that went away at all was when we were doing water changes. But, I woke up, and though that the tank looked a tad clearer maybe.. Then I just got out of the shower, and suddenly it's almost totally clear... Is that normal? I haven't done anything since Sunday other than feed them and medicate them.

Also. Just out of curiosity. How do you know so much about all this?
 
It could have just been a bacterial bloom. When there is a lot of organics in the water, sometimes the bacteria will bloom into the water column to such a point that you can see it. Eventually they run out of food and settle back into the substrate or die off some at that point too. Not your good bacteria, the organic eating ones. Bet you're glad though.

The only reason I was able to help with columnaris is because my tank had it! Now that it's run through my tank it's almost definitely something you have to see and experience to help others in so far as recognizing it in the first place.

I mostly help out here in the water and newbie forums but my experience comes from a terrible water supply that led me to do endless research and experiment with many different things from ion exchangers to pumps and different filter inserts for nitrates etc. Nothing like hands on experience to teach you a lot of stuff!

Won't try and bore you! I have two main problems with my tap water. No. 1 it's full of CO2, comes out at a ph of about 6.8 and rises to a ph of 8.3. I didn't find this out until I started keeping fish and it led to endless problems. I finally solved that problem by running my water into a bin, using an air stone and heater for about 12 hours and then pumping it from the bin up to my tank during water changes. Because of this I'll probably never have more than one aquarium while I live here. The second issue that. Led me to non-stop research was my tap nitrates range from about 10-80 during the year. I tried ion-exchange filters attached to my tap and they worked but were slow and constantly needed to be re-charged. Then I switched to RO which led to more research on minerals fish need and GH and KH etc.

The only positive thing I can say about all the problems is I feel I have a firm grasp of most water quality issues, RO, nitrates, cycling experience. There was also a retired biology teacher on another forum I used to spend a lot of time on who was very knowledgeable about everything with bacteria lol
 
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  • #75
Maybe. It seemed to get more and more cloudy with each dose, but it could have been the furan killed a bit of my good bacteria, then when I stopped that, (or just from adding new fish) it just regrew really fast. I've seen bacteria cloudiness before, but it was not even close to how cloudy it's been the last few days. But I can see my fish again! So, yeah. Really pumped about that. Yesterday, all I could see was fish silhouette unless they were really close to the glass.

I wonder if that had anything to do with my snail being grumpy last night. He was just floating in the tank (he came back down sometime before morning). The only other time he's done that was the day I got him in March, and I threw him in the tank (the day I got it) without acclimating him, because I was dumb, and the fish store person made it seem like snails required as much care as a plant.


And that's pretty cool that you learned so much. I love that feeling when you realize you've become sorta an expert at the thing that's been giving you a hard time forever.
But, CO2 makes PH rise after a while? That's probably why all our tanks started at 6.8, and got to 7.6 after a while. The first time it happened, I got really nervous and bought PH down, but I decided not to use it unless it got to 7.8, but it never did.
I honestly don't really pay attention to the GH or KH. That's probably bad, but there's people around here with tanks that don't worry about it either and don't have problems.

That's also cool about the biology teacher. It's awesome when experts take the time to explain things when it's not their job to help you. I took an intro Bio class a year or so ago, and the instructor had a phd specializing in salmon, or something like that. So, I learned a bit about fish anatomy.

At some point, I was thinking about trying to make a program that helps people keep track of their fish and care. Just because, there's so many variables. Sorta like AgAvisor, but you also list products, medication and the doses, and foods, and it warns people if certain medication bad for their fish. Maybe even something like the webmd symptom checker where you list symptoms, and tells you of possible illnesses with treatment options, and warns you if it's a very serious symptom, and links you to a forum like this to get real advice.
I'd need to learn a lot of stuff, to do it or find someone to help. I know how to code enough to make a ugly, non-user friendly version of that.
 
HI all-
I need your wisdom!
I currently have a 20 gallon long set up with 6 female bettas and 6 albino cories.
My problem is that in the last 48 hours I've lost 4 of my bettas. They all had the same symptoms that progressed very rapidly. I fed them frozen mysis shrimp on Monday night. Everyone ate and seemed fine. On Tuesday morning one betta had puffed up a lot , but it wasn't dropsy, there was zero pineconing and she was dead. All others looked ok and were swimming around. By Tuesday night another one was bloated and dead. Again, zero pineconing. I did two back to back water changes and tested everything.
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite-0
Nitrates-5
PH- 7.2
Temp-79 F
Last night I lost two more bettas the same way. None of them had any stringy poop that I ever saw. They all literally became bloated in a matter of hours and died.
I use Poland Spring water in all my tanks.
Please ask any questions I may have overlooked! Any thoughts would be awesome...I am at a total loss. I've kept bettas for years and I've never seen an illness like this. Oh and the cories are all fine.
 
could be bad mysis. Frozen and live food is goid for them however you always run a risk of bad or diseased food. I have one female that trys to gobble up all the food before anyone else gets any, then she lays on the bottom for an hour or 2.
 
Have any plants in the aquarium? Sororities don't always work, and having plants to break up the view would help if they're still getting stressed from each other. Also, phosphates. Have you check it's levels recently? Plants will remove them to grow.
Do you dechlorinate your water? Your tap water might have more chlorine than usual, especially after a rainstorm.
 
Have any plants in the aquarium? Sororities don't always work, and having plants to break up the view would help if they're still getting stressed from each other. Also, phosphates. Have you check it's levels recently? Plants will remove them to grow.
Do you dechlorinate your water? Your tap water might have more chlorine than usual, especially after a rainstorm.
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I only have live plants in the tank. Nothing fake. Rocks, plants and driftwood. Heavily planted. I have not checked the phosphate levels, but that shouldn't kill them all in a 48 hour period. No tap water, I buy the water from Poland Spring and add prime each water change
 

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could be bad mysis. Frozen and live food is goid for them however you always run a risk of bad or diseased food. I have one female that trys to gobble up all the food before anyone else gets any, then she lays on the bottom for an hour or 2.
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I too thought that might be a possibility, but all my tanks (I have 5) were fed the same food including the cories in the tank with the bettas and everyone else is fine.
 
Have any plants in the aquarium? Sororities don't always work, and having plants to break up the view would help if they're still getting stressed from each other. Also, phosphates. Have you check it's levels recently? Plants will remove them to grow.
Do you dechlorinate your water? Your tap water might have more chlorine than usual, especially after a rainstorm.
Click to expand...

Also, do you have any suggestions to make the tank safe if I were to add a small school of tetras, or a single male betta in with the cories? I want to make sure whatever killed the bettas is eliminated as possible.
 
Well that does rule out the food. I wouldn't try to medicate anything at this point. As far as making it safe it will take time and to keep a close eye on the tank for anything unusual. You probably should think of that tank as a quarantine tank till you figure this out. That means no fish in or out and be careful of what you stick in that tank and use on otther tanks. Including your water change bucket. Once old tank water is in the bucket it could be contaminated. This definitely isn't from aggression anong the girls.
 
Well that does rule out the food. I wouldn't try to medicate anything at this point. As far as making it safe it will take time and to keep a close eye on the tank for anything unusual. You probably should think of that tank as a quarantine tank till you figure this out. That means no fish in or out and be careful of what you stick in that tank and use on otther tanks. Including your water change bucket. Once old tank water is in the bucket it could be contaminated. This definitely isn't from aggression anong the girls.
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Ok, thank you so much for your help. It is officially a quarantine tank!
 
That's what I would do. Sadly sometimes fish die and we can't ever figure out why.
 
Silly question was anything sprayed around the tank like aerosol can spray.
 
Air freshener even. My wife almost killed one of my tanks off with one if those whole room automatic deals. She put it on top of the hutch right next to my tank. Lost a few of the more sensitive fish before I figured it out.
 
If you're sure it wasn't poisoning (chemicals or new ornaments? Hand cream?), I can only think of bacterial infection because of how fast that thing advanced.

Semi-related - don't use bottled water, it's mineral- and metal-deficient. Your fish need minerals to live.
 
If you're sure it wasn't poisoning (chemicals or new ornaments? Hand cream?), I can only think of bacterial infection because of how fast that thing advanced.

Semi-related - don't use bottled water, it's mineral- and metal-deficient. Your fish need minerals to live.
Click to expand...

Oh, I add Seachem equilibrium in it. Forgot to mention that
 

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Also, do you have any suggestions to make the tank safe if I were to add a small school of tetras, or a single male betta in with the cories? I want to make sure whatever killed the bettas is eliminated as possible.
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Tetras are fin nippers. I do not recommend them with your betta. Try danios. I also should let you know that anything less than ten tetras are increasingly more aggressive. I don't think danios are the same way but it's possible so shoot for ten or more. They can be good dither fish, or if there's any aggression the bettas might try to chase the danios instead. Most danios are fast swimmers and will keep away from the bettas fine.
 
Not sure if you could do a school of tetras or danios along with the bettas and cories. It is only a 20 gallin tank. I would personally say either a school of fish or the bettas not both. I have 11 glolight tetras in with my harem but they are in a 75 gallon tank. It also has a male betta, a coomon pleco and a male dwarf goromI that everybody flames me on.
 
Hello everyone. My sister has set up a betta sorority and she is having issues. So she asked me to ask you wonderful people for some suggestions.

She started the betta sorority tank this week. It is 36 gallon tank and she currently has 14 female bettas in there. The store manager said they were already all in a tank together before she purchased them. We honestly have no idea if this is true or not. The issue she has run into is there is a lot of chasing and fin nipping going on. One betta in particular is flaring and being the most aggressive.

She was told that having more is better to help with aggression. Should she maybe look at getting some more? Remove the problem bettas?

Any suggestions would be helpful. A lot of the bettas she has looked to be in pretty rough shape when I was at her place today.
 
That's great. Not your issue just the coincidence. I just purchased 5 females last week after my male, Mr. Wiggles passed. One of the fish had another's tail in its mouth the way home. Same thing, lots of fin nipping, flaring, and chasing. I removed the three that were flaring and being aggressive and put them in my community tank. I have no clue why it worked but they leave each other alone now. Could be the other fish in the tank. More is probably only going to worsen the situation. Try observing them to see which ones seem to be nipping and see if you can separate them from the others. Might work, might not.
 
So there are a couple of questions. Do you have a cycled tank, do you have it planted so they can escape each other? Sororities scare me because I do not have enough tanks for the worst case scenario.
 
Although female bettas are not as aggressive as males, they can still be pretty aggressive. They are going to spar with each other until they establish the order of domination. With 14 females in the tank, it is going to take a lot of fights to settle the hierarchy from No. 1 to No. 14. Even if they were all together in the same tank at the pet store, once they are moved into a new environment, the process will start all over again.

The females in the bottom spots are going to take a lot of damage along the way. Be sure you have plenty of plants and decorations in the tank so that the least aggressive of the sorority are able to escape, hide, and recover from the bullying. Hopefully, they will survive the ordeal.
 
it is normal for them to nip a little at first
I have tried sororitys but they just dont work for me. I would live plant it and give lots of hiding spots maybe remove some of the agressive fish?
 

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