Betta fin rot treatment question

[sparklepixie]

Oh and de-shelled peas! I forgot about those! Organic frozen ones are best, just thaw and remove them from the shell and feed.

 

[DanaNM]

I tried a pea last week (or the week before?). He ate it, then I waited a few days and he didn't get better. I tried another piece of pea about 4 days ago and he wouldn't eat it.

 

[sparklepixie]

You may try some peas soaked in garlic, it may entice him enough to get him to eat it. Though a pea is only going to help , I think, if he's bloated due to being constipated.. if the bloat is from something else, it wouldn't help.

 

[girlwithmanyeyes]

I realize that I'm new to this conversation but I don't see any bloating in the pictures you attached previously and his caudal fin looks way more like fin biting than fin rot.

As for the lower activity - is it possible you're not feeding him enough and or he needs more protein?

If he is indeed constipated - I've have good success with HikarI Bio-Pure Freeze Dried Daphnia and Fluval Bug Bites.

 

[sparklepixie]

It's possible that he is fin biting, but even eventually that could turn into fin rot. It's the not seeing improvement that bothers me, with the water changes she should see some new tissue growth.

But he could just be biting the exact same spots. Hard to tell, OP would have to confirm all that.

 

[DanaNM]

Thanks everyone, the bloating wasn't present in the earlier photos, it was a more recent development. His fins seem like they are slowly getting worse as well. I thought it was maybe biting at first, but the edges were a bit black and somewhat curled, with no signs of regrowth. The pics look dark because of the Indian Almond leaf tannins and the fungus clear meds.

He seems worse today. He still reacts to me but is floating listless at the surface most of the time, and seems bent to one side. I thought he was dead a few times. I'm at a loss.

I feel like there might be some slight pine coning? You can see it here:



I just don't know what to do for him. I am looking for daphnia. I do have bug bites now so I might try feeding just one of those a day. It does feel wrong to not feed him when he's trying to heal. I will try the garlic as well. It's hard to get a pic of his belly. It looks full but not as extreme as some pics I've seen.

UGH seems like the more I've tried the worse he's gotten. Now I'm afraid any more changes will just shock him. Think I should I remove the meds and salt from the water and go back to just super clean?

But then the med really hasn't had time to work?

 

[sparklepixie]

I don't think the meds have had time to work, I'd give it a few days and see what happens. He does look like he could be starting to pinecone, I just hope he doesn't and it's the just the way the pictures look.

 

[DanaNM]

Today he seems slightly more pineconed. Even some scales on his face are sticking out.

He also won't eat. He seemed like he was going to go for the food, but then didn't. He also seems to be sinking now instead of floating, so spends his time resting on his Indian almond leaf hammock.

I just don't know what this means. Did all of my attempts to treat him do this? Or did he have an infection before that just has progressed?

Maybe I should do a water change and add just the amount of meds for the water I remove?

I'm gutted, he is such a good boy.

 

[girlwithmanyeyes]

Oh no! Sorry he's still doing poorly . Have you tried an Epsom Salt bath? I have read about a lot of success in treating SBD & constipation.

Also what is the temperature of your tank? If it's low, could you raise it slowly to help increase his metabolism?

If he's indeed pineconing, then I would continue the antibiotics as per package instructions.

 

[DanaNM]

I haven't done the epsom salt bath yet, but I can try that tomorrow. His tank is at 80.

My kanaplex was delivered today, so I can also try that tomorrow if he makes it that long. But not sure if it's safe to use at the same time as the jungle fungus clear?

Also does aquarium salt make dropsy worse? I've read conflicting things. I currently do have aquarium salt in the tank...

I feel like he's gotten worse since adding the salt and meds so I'm tempted to do a 50% water change and add some chemical filtration to the tank.

 

[sparklepixie]

I hate to hear that he is getting worse. Gonna call on someone that may can give some ideas.

PascalKrypt What do you think about this?

 

[DanaNM]

Thank you. I read in another thread somewhere that dropsy often can come from an infection that starts with impacted food in the gut? I wonder if that's what happened, since he was showing symptoms of SBD and constipation before this? *sigh* Or maybe some underlying infection at the root of everything?

Poor guy, he's been through so much at this point. His red tail color is also looking a lot more muted but I can't tell if it's just the lighting.

I opted to do a 50% water change (no salt) and added more filtration with purigen. Looks like the other med is mostly gone (as it stained the water green). If he makes it till tomorrow I will do an epsom bath and treat with the kanaplex and hope for the best.

 

[PascalKrypt]

I've had a read through the entire thread. Though I have some opinions on what could be the cause of the issue originally, the more immediate problem is that he seems to have developed an internal bacteria infection that is now progressing quickly.

If you want to save him, start dosing antibiotics as soon as possible. Once the pineconing is clearly visible, you will be too late. By all means try the epsom salt bath, though know that that is only a temporary symptom relief (if it works at all) and won't actually help cure him (daily baths may buy you a little time if you are lucky).


In terms of the cause of all this, I am *highly* suspicious of your PH problems. It happens on occasion that someone's water does not contain enough buffers and the PH drops over the course of a few days, but for PH to skyrocket after being added to a tank that doesn't contain any explicit objects to increase hardness is very unusual and worrying.
Especially since you've mentioned that he seemed to get worse with every water change, I fear that in trying to help him with daily WCs you may have exercerbated the problem. I read the tank PH would rise as high as 8.8 and every with the frequent changes to 8.5ish. If your tap water is 7.5, that means every time you did a water change you made the water parameters fluctuate quite a bit. Doing that over and over would have stressed out your fish a lot.
Though it also means that something in your tank is leeching into your water, which by itself (depending on what that is) could be making your fish sick. The bacterial infection simply slid into your weakened fish.
The most suspicious is your substrate... whether the fish survives or not I'd ditch it completely as soon as possible and rinse out the tank well before replacing it. Conduct a few PH tests every few days to see if the problem is gone. If it isn't, then your filter is the culprit. But I'd bet my own bettas that it is the substrate causing the trouble, explaining why it migrated with the use of the new tank.

 

[DanaNM]

Thank you so much for the detailed response and for reading the long saga!

The new tank had brand new substrate, flourite black sand, but the same corner box filter. Since the filter was used in the old tank, which at one point was brackish, and may have had some shell pieces in it, I think you might be on to something.

I did notice when I let the tap water sit out for a couple days it came close to what was in the tank (around 8.4), and when I retested the tank it was about 8.4 as well, but that was after adding Indian Almond Leaves. Before I knew what was happening I was just adding the water without letting it sit long enough to equilibriate the pH, just long enough for the temp to equalize. The fish store did say my pH and alkalinity was off the chart, even compared to their tanks (our tap water is very basic in general). One of my other tanks has the same flourite black sand substrate and also has a high pH, but I had a separate saga going on with it and switched my water source to pre-filtered it's now at 8.2.

My impression is that the water changes made things worse as well, especially once I moved him to the 5 gal from the 10 gal. Do you think the box filter could be leaching something, since the substrate is new? It has some ceramic media and a few layers of sponges. Maybe the ceramic media latched on to some mineral from the old tank?

I ended up doing a 50% change today with the pre-filtered water source so I've probably gone and made things worse again for him. The betta tank is currently at 8.4. Since the only thing different between this tank and my other is the filter, I think is must be the filter. The tank with lower pH actually is way more planted so I would think it would have the higher pH after the whole day of photosynthesis.

He is definitely pine coned Not the worst I've seen (like if you google it), but I'm afraid it's too late. I will still try the kanaplex as a last ditch effort.

Sorry for the ramble and thanks again for your response.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Thank you so much for the detailed response and for reading the long saga!

The new tank had brand new substrate, flourite black sand, but the same corner box filter. Since the filter was used in the old tank, which at one point was brackish, and may have had some shell pieces in it, I think you might be on to something.

I did notice when I let the tap water sit out for a couple days it came close to what was in the tank (around 8.4), and when I retested the tank it was about 8.4 as well, but that was after adding Indian Almond Leaves. Before I knew what was happening I was just adding the water without letting it sit long enough to equilibriate the pH, just long enough for the temp to equalize. The fish store did say my pH and alkalinity was off the chart, even compared to their tanks (our tap water is very basic in general). One of my other tanks has the same flourite black sand substrate and also has a high pH, but I had a separate saga going on with it and switched my water source to pre-filtered it's now at 8.2.

My impression is that the water changes made things worse as well, especially once I moved him to the 5 gal from the 10 gal. Do you think the box filter could be leaching something, since the substrate is new? It has some ceramic media and a few layers of sponges. Maybe the ceramic media latched on to some mineral from the old tank?

I ended up doing a 50% change today with the pre-filtered water source so I've probably gone and made things worse again for him. The betta tank is currently at 8.4. Since the only thing different between this tank and my other is the filter, I think is must be the filter. The tank with lower pH actually is way more planted so I would think it would have the higher pH after the whole day of photosynthesis.

He is definitely pine coned Not the worst I've seen (like if you google it), but I'm afraid it's too late. I will still try the kanaplex as a last ditch effort.

Sorry for the ramble and thanks again for your response.

Okay so this is a slightly more nuanced story than how it read scattered throughout the posts. I thought you'd moved the substrate to the new tank (too bad actually, that would have been a nice easy fix). I also thought you'd written previously that after letting the tap gas off in a bucket the PH stayed below 8?

8.5 is about the maximum PH that I would advise people not to try and fix (in fear of fluctuating parameters from using such products), so if your tap water stays at that level even with a tannin source then you would qualify as one of the few people that might just try and mess with their PH even though they aren't keep specialist fish.
Is there any other water source you have access to, any tap that isn't yours that you could fill some 0.5/1 gallon bottles and take home/to the office with you? You could mix it 50/50 with this high PH water and get something a little more neutral.

Could you give a more thorough diagnosis of your parameters? That is, PH, GH, KH and if you can TDS (consider buying a cheap meter) of both your source and tank water? That would help give a bit more insight in what is going on exactly and if something is leeching in your tank (the filter then would be the remaining candidate) or if your tap water itself is the problem.
I'm suspicious about water that kills snails. Usually snails actually thrive in very basic water, so something seems to be going on there...

Ah, here are the quotes I was looking for:

But, I just checked the pH and it's 8.8! I haven't been testing the pH regularly so idk if it's been fluctuating... Ack! Out of the tap the water is 7.6. Could the frequent water changes actually be stressing him more due to pH fluctuations? I've been letting the water sit out for usually a few hours with a heater in it to bring it to temp... but maybe the pH isn't equalizing??

I was shocked because I added an indian almond leaf a few days ago, which is supposed to lower the pH, right? So maybe it was off the charts before?

One thing that still baffles me, is the pH in his tank is between 8.2 and 8.4 even with an Indian almond leaf in it. I have a bucket of water that's been aging for a couple days that also has an IAL, and it's 7.4. Out of the tap it was about the same. I thought that it would equilibriate to become more basic but it hasn't. Could something in the tank be making it more basic?

I did a ~30% water change last night. The water had sat out for about 48 hours with conditioner and an IAL, temp matched with a heater. The pH is about 8, about 8.4 in the tank.

Edit: Btw as a test, you could get a 1 gallon container, fill it with dechlorinated tap water from the same source and put some snails in there. See how they fare.

sorry about your betta

 

[DanaNM]

So, it is a complicated story for sure. I have another thread going on about the snail thing, which I actually think I have sorted out. Snails die instantly? Please help! - Snails 430051

Long story short, after much deliberation the most likely candidate seemed to be some unidentified toxin (maybe copper, prob from the old pipes in my building). My co-worker uses the same water source and his snails are going nuts, but he uses carbon in his filters and doesn't do water changes often.... (only real difference I can see). So, in my other tank (which has no live stock at present), I did a 95% water change using filtered water (they just installed one of those filtered water bottle filling stations in my building so I've been filling up pitchers from there, that basically just is a fancy carbon filter) and ran purigen for a few days. Added a snail, and it's still alive after a few days... but time will tell.

SO it's quite possible that the same toxin is affecting my betta but as a lower grade stressor. BUT I have been using the same water for a year, and haven't been able to keep snails in the tank that whole time. One thing I did do relatively recently (when this fin rot saga started) was that I added the ceramic media to the filter... and I see some scattered reports on the internet of ceramic media potentially affecting pH. I also don't remember if I rinsed it... I have the same brand it in my tank at home and no problems there.

But yeah looking back through my posts there is about a whole integer difference between the water out of the tap and in the tank. Pretty dramatic. In the future I can let the water sit out for a few days to at least partially equalize.

That said, for the water change today I used the filtered water and started running Purigen in a second filter as well, which looks to have removed most of the tannins and old medication.

I currently only have the API test kit but I will look into getting something for the other parameters moving forward. My tanks are small enough that I can bring water from home without much hassle, but I'm hoping the filtered water will work .

In the meantime, I've just dosed his the tank with Kanaplex. I removed the purigen and the ceramic media (the sponge media is still there though). Poor guy, I always try to do the best by my pets and I thought I was starting to get the hang of this aquarium thing. Hoping he is looking at least a little better tomorrow.

Thanks again for your insight.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Yes, it can be a real mystery sometimes why tanks do what they do. Though in a way that is also what makes the hobby a fun challenge, frustrating as it can be at times. Just keep at it, you'll get there.

It is possible that you are right after all about the toxin and that it is just something that affects inverts much more strongly than fish. Many heavy metals do. It is quite possible that they take a long time of building up before they the damage becomes visible (kind of like lead does in humans, trace amounts are not immediately toxic but consuming contaminated water over the years can make you incredibly sick in the long run).

 

[DanaNM]

Thank you, yeah it has been concerning about the snails... Bettas are such tough little fish that I wouldn't be surprised if they could tolerate something like that for a long time. That also makes me feel terrible that he has gotten so stressed that it came to this. Most of the cases you hear about of fin rot (or at least on advice blogs) are about Bettas kept in small containers with rare water changes... my office mate always comments on how spoiled my betta is so this is just so sad.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Thank you, yeah it has been concerning about the snails... Bettas are such tough little fish that I wouldn't be surprised if they could tolerate something like that for a long time. That also makes me feel terrible that he has gotten so stressed that it came to this. Most of the cases you hear about of fin rot (or at least on advice blogs) are about Bettas kept in small containers with rare water changes... my office mate always comments on how spoiled my betta is so this is just so sad.

Don't feel so bad! You couldn't have possibly known this beforehand. Plenty of fish deaths happen without it being anybody's fault, you can lose the genetic lottery or your heater can decide to go on a vacation to the Mediterranean. It happens.

 

[DanaNM]

Thank you.
He seems more active today, but I can't tell if it's because he's less able to maintain his position? Still pine coned, but can't tell if it's worse? Maybe his color looks a bit better too, but the light is brighter now so hard to say.
Here he is last night:


Vs. this morning:

He often adopts this s-shaped curve and then lists over to one side. Last night he was just floating that way with his head down. Now he is still doing that a bit, but seems like he is trying to maintain a more normal body position.

here he is listing to the side

I just don't know when to call it and euthanize him. I was mentally preparing to do it today, but now not sure. From what I've read, once there is pine-coning it's usually too late? But then there are reports of fish recovering (rarely) with kanaplex?

I'm doing a little experiment on the water sources. I have 4 cups: 2 unfiltered tap from the questionable pipes, and 2 filtered. Added Prime to all 4, some of the old ceramic media to one of each. Then added some ramshorn snails to all 4. Starting pH of the unfiltered water is 7.6, filtered is 7.8.

Will re-check pH and monitor the snails. After only 10 minutes the snails in the filtered water are cruisin' around, the snails in the tap water are closed up in their shells. The snails in the filtered with no ceramic media are the most active.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Thank you.
He seems more active today, but I can't tell if it's because he's less able to maintain his position? Still pine coned, but can't tell if it's worse? Maybe his color looks a bit better too, but the light is brighter now so hard to say.
Here he is last night:
View attachment 641148

Vs. this morning:
View attachment 641149
He often adopts this s-shaped curve and then lists over to one side. Last night he was just floating that way with his head down. Now he is still doing that a bit, but seems like he is trying to maintain a more normal body position.
View attachment 641150
here he is listing to the side
View attachment 641151
I just don't know when to call it and euthanize him. I was mentally preparing to do it today, but now not sure. From what I've read, once there is pine-coning it's usually too late? But then there are reports of fish recovering (rarely) with kanaplex?

I'm doing a little experiment on the water sources. I have 4 cups: 2 unfiltered tap from the questionable pipes, and 2 filtered. Added Prime to all 4, some of the old ceramic media to one of each. Then added some ramshorn snails to all 4. Starting pH of the unfiltered water is 7.6, filtered is 7.8.

Will re-check pH and monitor the snails. After only 10 minutes the snails in the filtered water are cruisin' around, the snails in the tap water are closed up in their shells. The snails in the filtered with no ceramic media are the most active.

The second photo shows worrying degrees of pineconing (so from today), but otherwise he isn't swollen like a balloon. It's kind of borderline where I would say it is hopeless vs. that it might still turn around. I'd wait another day or two, antibiotics take some time. Then see if the scales are coming back down.

 

[sparklepixie]

Hopefully, he pulls through. Rooting for you two!

I'm glad I pulled Pascal over to this thread, sounds like you got some great insight.

 

[DanaNM]

Thank you, and thanks so much for pulling Pascal in, it has been super helpful!

 

[DanaNM]

He's still alive today, seems about the same but hard to get a good look to see if his pine coning is worse. His abdomen seems like it might be slightly more swollen. I added the second dose of Kanaplex.

An update on my snail water tests:

	tap	tap + ceramic media	filtered	filtered + ceramic
Day 1	7.6, snails died immediately	7.6, snails died immediately	7.8, snails alive	7.8, snails alive
Day 2	8.2	8.2	8.2, snails alive and active	8.0, snails less active but alive

Will monitor for another day or so. It seems like the normal state of our water once it equilibrates is around 8.2. The ceramic media didn't dramatically change the pH, but seems like it might be affecting the snails? Possibly leaching something from the water that it was in previously? Still don't know how I had that reading of 8.8... But with all the issues with the water maybe the actual water was different at that time.

ALSO, as I was writing this, I got another piece of this puzzle. I had notified the collections manager about my snails (I work in a marine lab), and he looked into where the "tap" water that I use actually comes from. Turns out it was "industrial" water, that can be used throughout the building for equipment cooling. A few months ago (maybe 3), they installed new boilers on the roof... around the time my snails and shrimp crashed... and my betta started having fin issues. So I'm guessing it's copper, or some other metal that only arrived in the water once they installed the boilers. Prime supposedly removed heavy metals, but only "at concentrations typically found", which might be much lower than what I've got.

I'm still so sad about my fish but at least I know what the heck went wrong. The pH swings compounded his already weakened state.

 

[PascalKrypt]

He's still alive today, seems about the same but hard to get a good look to see if his pine coning is worse. His abdomen seems like it might be slightly more swollen. I added the second dose of Kanaplex.

An update on my snail water tests:

	tap	tap + ceramic media	filtered	filtered + ceramic
Day 1	7.6, snails died immediately	7.6, snails died immediately	7.8, snails alive	7.8, snails alive
Day 2	8.2	8.2	8.2, snails alive and active	8.0, snails less active but alive

Will monitor for another day or so. It seems like the normal state of our water once it equilibrates is around 8.2. The ceramic media didn't dramatically change the pH, but seems like it might be affecting the snails? Possibly leaching something from the water that it was in previously? Still don't know how I had that reading of 8.8... But with all the issues with the water maybe the actual water was different at that time.


ALSO, as I was writing this, I got another piece of this puzzle. I had notified the collections manager about my snails (I work in a marine lab), and he looked into where the "tap" water that I use actually comes from. Turns out it was "industrial" water, that can be used throughout the building for equipment cooling. A few months ago (maybe 3), they installed new boilers on the roof... around the time my snails and shrimp crashed... and my betta started having fin issues. So I'm guessing it's copper, or some other metal that only arrived in the water once they installed the boilers. Prime supposedly removed heavy metals, but only "at concentrations typically found", which might be much lower than what I've got.

I'm still so sad about my fish but at least I know what the heck went wrong. The pH swings compounded his already weakened state.

.... kind of sounds like you might push your company to have the water tested (this is at work right?)... because I wouldn't be so sure if that is safe to drink. Sounds kind of ominous.
But yes, this seems fairly conclusive in terms of filtering removing some kind of deadly/damaging chemical from your water (likely a heavy metal as you said, lead is a common contaminant from new(?) pipes or old paint flakes). Wouldn't draw only conclusions on the ceramic media yet, 'activity levels' in snails is pretty subjective and you've only tried two days. Try a while longer and keep an eye on survival and reproduction rates and the like.

 

[DanaNM]

So, the "industrial water" is not meant to be for drinking (it's labeled as such). I knew that the plumbing was different, but other than that it's the same water as the regular city drinking water. BUT I had no idea it was run through equipment and the like, that was news to me and makes me reluctant to use it for anything. We use it to wash lab glass ware and the like, and now I worry about even getting it on my hands. Yuck. I would have suspected the water much sooner if my coworker's tanks weren't fine...that kind of threw me off and I still don't really know why he hasn't seen the same thing. He does wayyyy less water changes though, so that could be why.

 

[DanaNM]

So, he's still alive. I had resolved that I would euthanize him today if there was no improvement, but now I'm second guessing.

What are your thoughts on moving him to a hospital tank with only the filtered water and kanaplex?

After all of these developments concerning the water and the snails, I have a feeling his organs are struggling/failing due to the copper (or whatever) in the water. But is there any hope of recovery if that's the case?

Here he is today. I think the pineconing on his head might be worse.

 

[DanaNM]

After getting a better look at him I decided to euthanize, his pine coning was noticeably worse.

((Swim free Otto))

Thank you to everyone who offered advice. I might never have figured out the cause of this otherwise.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Sorry to hear it, though it was for the best. Doesn't make it hurt any less though.

 

[sparklepixie]

I am so sorry, it's really rough to loose them.

 

[girlwithmanyeyes]

Oh dear :-( I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[DanaNM]

Thank you everyone.

I found out my co-worker also used a different water conditioner than me. He uses API stress coat plus, which says it does detoxify heavy metals kind of up front on the labeling. Prime also says it does... but it's not really advertised as a main feature, so maybe the stress-coat detoxifies MORE metals, or uses a different agent.

In any case, on Friday I did 90% water changes on both my tanks using the filtered water and used both prime and stress coat in the tanks. I added the snails that I had been using in my cup experiment. This morning all the snails in both tanks are very active and cruising around grazing. They have been hard at work in my walstad tank, as there are little snail poops all over the tank!

I bought Cuprisorb but doesn't look like I need it necessarily? Might still stick it in the filter just to be safe.

Sad I figured this all out a little too late to save Otto. It seems so obvious now. I keep expecting to see him in the tank.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

A while back I found my betta with pretty noticeable tail rot overnight. I wasn't even sure if it was tail rot or not but my filter intake was pretty exposed so I decided to add a pre-filter sponge and do a 50% water change. His tail started to heal pretty fast but yesterday, I did a water change and went to bed, only to wake up to his tail even worse now! I am not sure how his tail can go from 'almost healed' to burnt and clearly frayed in just one night.

Unfortunately, I cannot get my hands on a water testing kit for I simply cannot afford it. It is 60 dollars here and I am a college student, but I feel confident in the water parameters considering I do a 50% water change every 3 or 4 days. I add Seachem Prime and Stability to every litre of water before I pour it in. There is one indian almond leaf in the bottom of the that he likes to lie on. The plants are all silk as far as I am aware.

His tail rot only became worse AFTER a water change. He also seems to lie on the ground more frequently and rushes up when I come near the tank. His appetite seems fine, actually he is more hungry than ever. Besides lying down more often, his behavior is the same.

His tank is a 7 gallon and I gravel vaccum every time I do a water change (even though I don't do a great job due to how fast the water is drained). I keep the temperature at 79. I feed him twice a day with betta flakes and ocassionally some freeze dried bloodworms as snacks. The tail rot hasn't affected his fins thankfully but I feel that is only a matter of time.



I could really use some help here

 

[AquaCaitlin]

Hmm, I’m mentally battling with myself here over what it could be. Since it is developing so quickly it could also be him fin biting... but than again the tears don’t look like most bites.
he may have possibly bit at it, than the bite may have become infected, leading to rot.

Has he seemed to be stressed recently? Any other abnormal behaviors?

API Freshwater Master Test Kit is probably the best choice for a affordable and fairly accurate water testing kit: https://www.amazon.com/API-FRESHWATER-800-Test-Freshwater-Aquarium/dp/B000255NCI

 

[Broggy]

does he seem stressed?

 

[UsedCarGuy]

Hmm, I’m mentally battling with myself here over what it could be. Since it is developing so quickly it could also be him fin biting... but than again the tears don’t look like most bites.
he may have possibly bit at it, than the bite may have become infected, leading to rot.

Has he seemed to be stressed recently? Any other abnormal behaviors?

API Freshwater Master Test Kit is probably the best choice for a affordable and fairly accurate water testing kit: https://www.amazon.com/API-FRESHWATER-800-Test-Freshwater-Aquarium/dp/B000255NCI

He has always been glass surfing ever since I got him into the new tank from a small 2 gallon one. But in terms of stress, I don't think he is. He seems to spend more time laying on the bottom of the tank but when I enter the room or go near him, he immediately dashes up and starts to swim around. Not sure if that is fear or excitement. Yesterday, when I was giving him his food, he was very very energetic. So overall, he seems fine besides the tail. I am just baffled how this could happen overnight AFTER a water change.

I live in Australia and unfortunately I cannot deliver that to here. It is around 60 dollars here as well. I am definitely going to buy it when I can scrap up some change but at the moment, especially with how much I have already spent, it is going to be hard explaining myself considering I am not financially independant yet.

does he seem stressed?

To my knowledge, don't think so. Any suggestions how I can evaluate if he is stressed or not?

 

[AquaCaitlin]

For treating the rot/damage I would add tannins to the water. You can buy indian almond leaves or google what kinds of leafs are betta safe and can be found in your area. I personally use dried oak leafs.
The tannins should help him to be more calm and help his tail heal.

If the rot begins to progress more I would start treating with salt baths.

From the pictures I can tell he has a good amount of hiding places, so I don’t think lack of hiding spots is contributing to possible stress. I would do 30% water changes daily for maybe a week or so and see if that helps.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

My tank has tannis using an IAL. It is quite brownish now. I will try to do 20-30% water changes every 2 days. Could it be possible that poor gravel vaccuming is contributing to it? Whenever I try to gravel vaccum, I can't seem to do it fast enough until it reaches 50%. Some weird debris starts floating around in the tank that I scoop out using a fish net but I don't know, it is quite troublesome to gravel vaccuum effectively. I always hope for the water change to keep things clean.

 

[AquaCaitlin]

I don’t normally vacuum my betta’s gravel (maybe once a month, or every 2 months) and they do great, so I don’t think that’s it.

The tannins should really help, so that’s great. If you keep the aquarium light off it will also help to reduce stress.

Since he was healing than it suddenly got worse after a water change I really don’t know what to think. There might be some traces of ammonia in your tap water, but that’s highly unlikely, and even stranger if this is a recent issue.

Keep an eye on him. If he gets much worse I would start treating with salt baths- maybe one a day. Between that and the tannins he will hopefully begin to improve.

 

[Broggy]

My tank has tannis using an IAL. It is quite brownish now. I will try to do 20-30% water changes every 2 days. Could it be possible that poor gravel vaccuming is contributing to it? Whenever I try to gravel vaccum, I can't seem to do it fast enough until it reaches 50%. Some weird debris starts floating around in the tank that I scoop out using a fish net but I don't know, it is quite troublesome to gravel vaccuum effectively. I always hope for the water change to keep things clean.

i just watched something online, you can kink the suction tubing between cleaning the substrate, to save more water. i don't know how well this works though.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

I don’t normally vacuum my betta’s gravel (maybe once a month, or every 2 months) and they do great, so I don’t think that’s it.

The tannins should really help, so that’s great. If you keep the aquarium light off it will also help to reduce stress.

Since he was healing than it suddenly got worse after a water change I really don’t know what to think. There might be some traces of ammonia in your tap water, but that’s highly unlikely, and even stranger if this is a recent issue.

Keep an eye on him. If he gets much worse I would start treating with salt baths- maybe one a day. Between that and the tannins he will hopefully begin to improve.

He was improving yesterday. I could see the outline of his tail recovering but all the progress is gone now for some reason. Maybe it is the Seachem Stability. I will try to stop adding that as I am not even sure if it is doing anything. If things escalate, salt baths is the only option I've left.

Even if there is ammonia in the tap water, shouldn't Prime deal with that? I was of the belief Prime binds ammonia and nitrates for 24 hours making it safe. I changed his water at 8 pm so it should still be detoxicating. I am afraid if it is a bacterial or fungal fin rot.

i just watched something online, you can kink the suction tubing between cleaning the substrate, to save more water. i don't know how well this works though.

I will try that, thanks!

 

[UsedCarGuy]

Quick update: His tail is now split in half. I am extremely worried now.

 

[CJM]

If possible, you could get tetra test strips to tide you over until you can afford the API Master Kit. They're not as precise and perhaps not as accurate, but they're better than no test at all. They don't test ammonia, though, which you definitely should test. However, API sells their ammonia kit separately. It might be cheaper to do it that way.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

If possible, you could get tetra test strips to tide you over until you can afford the API Master Kit. They're not as precise and perhaps not as accurate, but they're better than no test at all. They don't test ammonia, though, which you definitely should test. However, API sells their ammonia kit separately. It might be cheaper to do it that way.

I just did a 50% water change. I really doubt if it is a water quality issue but I will try to get my hands on a test kit. At this point, I don't care if I have to sink in 60 dollars just to help him. On one hand his tail splitting in half in a few hours could mean it isn't fin rot but on the other, the black edges say otherwise. He is sleeping right now and I hope his tail doesn't get worse by the morning.

 

[Wickette]

I just did a 50% water change. I really doubt if it is a water quality issue but I will try to get my hands on a test kit. At this point, I don't care if I have to sink in 60 dollars just to help him. On one hand his tail splitting in half in a few hours could mean it isn't fin rot but on the other, the black edges say otherwise. He is sleeping right now and I hope his tail doesn't get worse by the morning.

This may not pertain to you, but my betta got sick very recently, was barely moving, a few days later his fins went from fine to half destroyed. No symptoms of disease.

It happeed right after I added an extra pre-filter sponge and did a bigg-ish water change. I treated him with API General Cure, seemed to do nothing. The Bettafix (low dose melafix) seemed to make things worse.

My ammonia nitrite nitrate levels were always zero, the water changes and filter were doing their job. But the kH in my tap water is very low (under 30ppm).
At some point the the Kh in my tank was depleted, unbeknown to me the pH in my tank dropped from 7.0 to about 6.0. I was doing 10% water changes every other day for over a week before I finally tested the pH

I don't know if it was the pH drop or some contamination in the water/new sponge. I did 50% water changes for 5 days, then 10% every day. increased the temp to 80F, reduced feeding to 3 mini pellets every other day. pH stopped stabilized after the 4th 50% water change.

The pH is stable again, he's swimming again, tail is in bad shape but growing more each day.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

This may not pertain to you, but my betta got sick very recently, was barely moving, a few days later his fins went from fine to half destroyed. No symptoms of disease.

It happeed right after I added an extra pre-filter sponge and did a bigg-ish water change. I treated him with API General Cure, seemed to do nothing. The Bettafix (low dose melafix) seemed to make things worse.

My ammonia nitrite nitrate levels were always zero, the water changes and filter were doing their job. But the kH in my tap water is very low (under 30ppm).
At some point the the Kh in my tank was depleted, unbeknown to me the pH in my tank dropped from 7.0 to about 6.0. I was doing 10% water changes every other day for over a week before I finally tested the pH

I don't know if it was the pH drop or some contamination in the water/new sponge. I did 50% water changes for 5 days, then 10% every day. increased the temp to 80F, reduced feeding to 3 mini pellets every other day. pH stopped stabilized after the 4th 50% water change.

The pH is stable again, he's swimming again, tail is in bad shape but growing more each day.

That is very strange. This was happening before the pre filter sponge was added in my case but the tail splitting in half is completely new. I will need to get my hands on a pH tester at least. The IAL might have reduced the pH significantly as well.

 

[Wickette]

That is very strange. This was happening before the pre filter sponge was added in my case but the tail splitting in half is completely new. I will need to get my hands on a pH tester at least. The IAL might have reduced the pH significantly as well.

I always knew the kH is low in this towns tapwater, I didnt realize how quickly it can be used up. It happened in my larger display tank from the filter being off for a few hours to add new pipes and pump. Normally I only test ammonia and nitrite, and once a month at most. Didnt occur to me how much pH can change without anything else going wrong.

Don't underestimate the power of daily 50% water changes and a fishes ability to fight off disease.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

I always knew the kH is low in this towns tapwater, I didnt realize how quickly it can be used up. It happened in my larger display tank from the filter being off for a few hours to add new pipes and pump. Normally I only test ammonia and nitrite, and once a month at most. Didnt occur to me how much pH can change without anything else going wrong.

I live in Australia, Melbourne and the pH floats around 7 as per their website. I leave my filter on 24/7 so can I be certain that the kH is not the issue?

 

[SM1199]

When bad things happen after a water change, I always wonder if the tap water is to blame. You might have ammonia in your tap, or it could even be fluctuating pH or other similar parameters. You could try doing smaller, more frequent water changes in hopes of avoiding big swings in the case of pH/KH/GH, and in the hopes of letting ammonia process in small amounts if you have ammonia in your tap.

 

[UsedCarGuy]

When bad things happen after a water change, I always wonder if the tap water is to blame. You might have ammonia in your tap, or it could even be fluctuating pH or other similar parameters. You could try doing smaller, more frequent water changes in hopes of avoiding big swings in the case of pH/KH/GH, and in the hopes of letting ammonia process in small amounts if you have ammonia in your tap.

Melbourne tap water does have a little ammonia but that should be dealt with using Prime. I guess I just have to wait any see. The betta splitting his tail in half within a few hours has me leaning towards tail biting now.