Algae decimation

Galgenstrick

I am really struggling with my aquarium. I can’t seem to keep the black algae under control. I’ve read so many articles on how to control black algae and nothing is remotely helping at all. My plants are growing quickly, but they are getting completely decimated by black algae. Each week I am having to prune at least 50% of leaves that are covered in black algae. It is spreading all over my rocks and other decorations. I’ve been working on trying to eliminate it for months now but nothing I do is helping.

aquarium setup:
30g tank
Fluval fresh and plant 3.0 LED lighting
2-3” Fluorite Black substrate
CO2 injection
Fluval 407 canister filter

plants:
Anubius
Dwarf sagittaria
Amazon swords
African fern

livestock:
7 white cloud minnows
20 exclamation point rasboras
1 panda garra
5 panda corys
4 Amano shrimp
1 Nerite snail

Ferilizer
Aquarium coop ez green (3 pumps/week)
Aquarium coop root tabs (6” grid)

water change
20% weekly
Weekly gravel vac

Feeding:
I try to change up the types of foods I give. Currently they are on krill flakes, bug bites, and sinking algae wafers. I feed them just enough that the minnows are happy and the clean up crew are actively eating algae.

Here are some pictures:
 

Mudminnow

BBA can sure be a pain sometimes.

There are 3 things I noticed about your tank that possibly could be changed to help out.

1. You said you have a CO2 system. This is great, but sometimes BBA can show up if CO2 levels are not optimized/consistent. There are two great videos about this on YouTube called "Optimizing CO2 in a planted tank" and "Optimizing CO2 in a planted tank - Additional notes on gaseous exchange", both by Dennis Wong.

2. Your plants are all medium to slow growing. Get some fast growing stem plants in there. BBA doesn't like to grow on them. The more you have, the easier controlling BBA will be.

3. You said you do 20% weekly water changes. BBA can be triggered to grow with organics in the water. If you do bigger (50% or more) water changes, this might help.

Also, have you tried a Siamese Algae Eater? They have helped me out a lot before with this.
 
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CTYankee79

Agreed 100% with above. 50% water changes and plant a lot more fast growers in there!
 
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Galgenstrick

BBA can sure be a pain sometimes.

There are 3 things I noticed about your tank that possibly could be changed to help out.

1. You said you have a CO2 system. This is great, but sometimes BBA can show up if CO2 levels are not optimized/consistent. There are two great videos about this on YouTube called "Optimizing CO2 in a planted tank" and "Optimizing CO2 in a planted tank - Additional notes on gaseous exchange".

3. Your plants are all medium to slow growing. Get some fast growing stem plants in there. BBA doesn't like to grow on them. The more you have, the easier controlling BBA will be.

2. You said you do 20% weekly water changes. BBA can be triggered to grow with organics in the water. If you do bigger (50% or more) water changes, this might help.

Also, have you tried a Siamese Algae Eater? They have helped me out a lot before with this.

Awesome! I am very lucky to live near corys store in Edmonds. I did look up Siamese algae eaters, and I was planning to get some this weekend. I will see if they have those in stock. I saw they can get up to 6 inches and I don’t want to overstock my aquarium. How many would you recommend?

I will try 50% water changes for the next month. Would you recommend adding API quick start or other bacteria to the water to keep it cycled?

I’ve been trying to keep my CO2 as high as I can without causing my fish distress. I will watch the videos tonight.
Agreed 100% with above. 50% water changes and plant a lot more fast growers in there!

any recommendations? I will get some tomorrow.
 
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Mudminnow

How many would you recommend?
I would say 1 adult or a few young ones might work well in your tank.
I will try 50% water changes for the next month. Would you recommend adding API quick start or other bacteria to the water to keep it cycled?
There isn't a lot of beneficial bacteria in the water column; it lives mostly in the filter and the substrate. So, doing big water changes (correctly) won't hurt them. Therefore, there is no need to add more bacteria with water changes.
 
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Galgenstrick

I would say 1 adult or a few young ones might work well in your tank.

There isn't a lot of beneficial bacteria in the water column; it lives mostly in the filter and the substrate. So, doing big water changes (correctly) won't hurt them. Therefore, there is no need to add more bacteria with the water changes.

right on, I will do all of that!

50% water change done
Added 2 SAE per recommendation
Added a couple varieties of vallisneria and a couple stem plants.
 
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kansas

Amano shrimp did the job for me.
 
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Galgenstrick

Amano shrimp did the job for me.
I’ve got 4 of them. They really like the algae, but a bit too slow for the issue I have.
 
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BirdoSwaggins

I would also cut back on the ez green (3 pumps/week) for a while, go down to 1 or 2 pumps/week. If the algae is out growing the plants as you are describing, then there is to many nutrients in the water for the plants to absorb. As the plants take off and make your tank look more like a jungle, then start dosing more ferts
 
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Galgenstrick

Another related question. Along with all the algae came an over population of bladder snails. I believe this has all come about as a result of over feeding.

are all of those bladder snails helping with the algae problem by eating it? Or are they just increasing the bioload and making it worse?
 
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CTYankee79

Another related question. Along with all the algae came an over population of bladder snails. I believe this has all come about as a result of over feeding.

are all of those bladder snails helping with the algae problem by eating it? Or are they just increasing the bioload and making it worse?
If anything, they are helping it. Maybe not eating the type of algae you’re struggling with, but they do help a lot with many types of algae. I don’t think they would be creating a problem with bioload in your tank, and with those water changes at 50% it really shouldn’t matter all that much.
 
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Galgenstrick

Quick update. The aquarium is definitely getting worse.

not even a week in and the whole thing is just coated in black and now brown algae.

I measured phosphates, and they are relatively high, at 2.0ppm(mg/ml)

not sure what to do at this point. Plants are still growing, but algae is growing faster.
 
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Mudminnow

It looks to me, you now have diatom algae in addition to what you had before. This is not uncommon in a new planted tank. It is usually temporary though. So, if you continue with what you're doing, it should hopefully go away eventually. Give the tank time to settle in.

2ppm of phosphate is fine in some tanks and can cause problems in others. I think what you could use most at this point is a bunch more fast growing stem plats. Fill up the back with them. There inclusion will make balancing the tank much easier. Some I have found to be hardy and fast growing are Hygrophyla difformis, Heteranthera Zosterifolia, Ludwigia repens, Rotala rotundifolia, and Micranthemum umbrosum.
 
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GlennO

How new is this setup? What sort of CO2 system and how many hours is it running? Do you have an idea of your CO2 levels from pH/KH readings or do you at least use a drop checker? Can you clarify the lighting period(s)? Sorry if any of that info is already provided.
 
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Galgenstrick

How new is this setup? What sort of CO2 system and how many hours is it running? Do you have an idea of your CO2 levels from pH/KH readings or do you at least use a drop checker? Can you clarify the lighting period(s)? Sorry if any of that info is already provided.

the aquarium is just over a year old. I’ve re-scaped it a couple time since I originally set it up.

CO2art regulator. 24/7

Drop checker. How can I measure pH/KH, I would be interested in doing that.

See the image Attached on my first post for lighting. It shows the spectrum and times.
 
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GlennO

the aquarium is just over a year old. I’ve re-scaped it a couple time since I originally set it up.

CO2art regulator. 24/7

Drop checker. How can I measure pH/KH, I would be interested in doing that.

See the image Attached on my first post for lighting. It shows the spectrum and times.

I assume that it's pressurised CO2 then? Is there any reason that you're running it 24hrs? The drop checker is green the whole time then? Google "CO2 tables for aquariums", you'll see the relationship between KH & pH & CO2 levels. Test kits for pH & KH are easy to find (any LFS or online). Nuisance algae nearly always indicates that something is out of balance between lighting-nutrients-CO2 levels. I'm just trying to figure out your CO2 levels for starters.
 
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Galgenstrick

Correct, it’s pressurized. Isn’t all pressurized CO2 run 24/7 to keep CO2 levels stable? Yes, drop checker is green the whole time, sometimes I’ll need to make fine adjustments to keep the level the same. I’ll pick up a test kit tomorrow or Tuesday if the snow let’s me out of my driveway.
 
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Mudminnow

Isn’t all pressurized CO2 run 24/7 to keep CO2 levels stable?
No, not typically. Usually the the CO2 is switched on long enough before lights on that the drop checker gets green just before the lights come on. Then, the CO2 is switched off as the lights turn off.
 
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MacZ

I would also cut back on the Aquarium coop ez green (3 pumps/week) for a while, go down to 1 or 2 pumps/week. If the algae is out growing the plants as you are describing, then there is to many nutrients in the water for the plants to absorb. As the plants take off and make your tank look more like a jungle, then start dosing more ferts

With the bioload of the tank and the additional CO2 I would go as far as to say: No fertilizers AT ALL until the plants have established. Should they not show any signs of deficiancies fertilizers are only an expensive additional cost. What is advised is a pH-regulator for the CO2, regulating the amounts to keep a certain pH. The regulator is a bigger one-time investment but it will help a lot. The pH and KH readings are necessary to know in any case.

I think adding the SAEs was a mistake. Besides the fact that a bigger (read: longer) tank would be more suitable to their swimming behaviour, they only add bioload. When there is food offered, they get lazy concerning algae removal and only two will have marginal impact on the amount of algae.
Generally adding anything to remove algae (animals, fertilizer dosage, algae removers, lighting time) doesn't do much good. Manual removal and dialing things down usually show the better results.

Concerning the lights:
- Blue fraction should be reduced a lot (maybe to 5-10%), in the nighttime slot exchange blue for red.
- The overall light intensity can be lowered to 75%
- The overall lighting time can be reduced to 6h for a while.

Stick to the 50%/week waterchange schedule indefinitely.
 
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GlennO

Yes I’d put your CO2 on a timer as suggested. You have an abundance of CO2, good lighting and a good all in one fertiliser. All of that is great except that you don’t yet have the plant mass to utilise it all. You have the equipment to have a really nice planted tank but you’ll need to make some adjustments.
 
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Galgenstrick

Thanks guys. I found one massive mistake I was making. I had an air pump bubbiling right next to my CO2 diffuser. I took that out last night and the fish were all surfacing for air in the morning.

It seems the air pump was carrying all the CO2 out of the tank. It also explains why I needed 10-15 bubble/second on the CO2 just to see the drop tester on the other side of the tank to turn green. I turned off the CO2 temporarily until the fish start to normalize and I am going to dial in the CO2 very slowly after that. As well as put it in a timer like you guys are suggesting.

do I need the air pump at all with a canister filter? I am gettin a lot of good flow with the canister, but no surface agitation.

Regarding the SAE, they‘re more than happy to take them back if needed. They call them “rent-a-fish” there for people that have black beard.
 
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MacZ

Yeah... well... goodness me. That's why it's always good to post a good quality picture of the whole tank. Somebody might have seen it and pointed it out.

No, an Airpump is not needed. Only maybe when you reach a very high plant density at one point, then an airpump running at night time is sometimes a good idea. Otherwise the surface agitation from the filter outflow is more than enough.

Regarding the SAE, they’re more than happy to take them back if needed. They call them “rent-a-fish” there for people that have black beard.

Allright. Take them back, they are really all but helpful right now.
 
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Galgenstrick

I removed about 50 snails from the aquarium last night. I am sure that will help the bioload a little. Right now the SAEs are tiny and my aquarium is fairly under stocked with exception of the bladder snails. I may exchange my nerite for a couple assassin snails to help with that. Good or bad idea? Regardless I won’t be making it to the aquarium store until next weekend at the earliest.

Thanks for the help! I will update soon and post some better pictures tonight.

- deep cleaned. removed many snails. Peroxide bath for the big rocks, canister scrubbed and cleaned out. Kept original filter media squeezed out in old water. Razor bladed algae off the walls.

- CO2 now on timer. On 2hr before lights on. Off at lights off.

- CO2 at 1 bubble per second. Will fine tune with drop checker.

- GH & KH kit ordered.

- light intensity reduced to 75%. Blue light reduced to 5%. After dark light switch from blue to red.

- no ferilizer except for old root tabs from a couple weeks ago. They are pellet capsules so can’t be removed.
 
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MacZ

- deep cleaned. removed many snails. Peroxide bath for the big rocks, canister scrubbed and cleaned out. Kept original filter media squeezed out in old water. Razor bladed algae off the walls.

- Don't remove all snails, leave some to help the whole balance. They are also useful to see if you overfeed.
- Peroxide may fall apart into non-toxic parts, but a bath in it for these rocks is probably overkill.
- Next filter cleaning -> when the flowrate goes down and then only the hoses and a slight squeeze for the filter media. Hope you didn't do too much there.

- CO2 now on timer. On 2hr before lights on. Off at lights off.
- CO2 at 1 bubble per second. Will fine tune with drop checker.

Better than nothing. I would go for even more exact automation. But then, what do I know about CO2?

- GH & KH kit ordered.

Excellent!

- light intensity reduced to 75%. Blue light reduced to 5%. After dark light switch from blue to red.

Hope this helps. The lighting duration is still at 8h+, dial down to 6. You will see a positive effect. You can always dial it back up after a while.

- no ferilizer except for old root tabs from a couple weeks ago. They are pellet capsules so can’t be removed.

Root tabs are only useful for certain plants anyway, shouldn't be a problem.

Well, looks good, good luck now. Remember: Less is often more.
 
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Galgenstrick

I really appreciate all the help! I definitely have lots to learn.
Better than nothing. I would go for even more exact automation. But then, what do I know about CO2?
Is this done by a certain type of regulator?

- Don't remove all snails, leave some to help the whole balance. They are also useful to see if you overfeed.

Oh, don’t worry, they’re still multiplying every day lol.
Don't forget pH.

No problem, got that one in the master kit already
 
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MacZ

Is this done by a certain type of regulator?

I was not kidding, I never used CO2 on my own tanks. Still, I find pH-regulators the most accurate from what I see in some tanks I help maintain lately.
 
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Galgenstrick

I was not kidding, I never used CO2 on my own tanks. Still, I find pH-regulators the most accurate from what I see in some tanks I help maintain lately.

got it. Is there a brand that is generally recommended here? Is chemical testing necessary if you have the PH regulator?

when testing CO2, should I test the water several times/day to check how stable it is? Or is once enough?
 
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mattgirl

Others might not agree with me but I am also fighting BBA. I was finally able to get a siamese algae eater. I am truly amazed at how quickly this one little guy is cleaning this awful stuff out of my tank. According to folks that have had them for a while they only grow to about 4 inches. This little guy was about an inch long when I got him. He is now close to 2 inches so is growing fairly fast. I've only had him for about 2 months.
 
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MacZ

got it. Is there a brand that is generally recommended here? Is chemical testing necessary if you have the PH regulator?

when testing CO2, should I test the water several times/day to check how stable it is? Or is once enough?

As you live in the US your choices of brands are different from mine.

You will want to get a permanent test that changes colour so you can see if there are problems, while the regulator does its thing on its own.
 
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Galgenstrick

You will want to get a permanent test that changes colour so you can see if there are problems, while the regulator does its thing on its own.

I think I’m a little confused what is getting recommended. I have a drop checker that it’s in the tank and changes color based on pH.

there are two types of pH regulators that I can find. One is a plug-in for the solenoid (see picture). Is this what you’re referring to as a “pH regulator?

the other one is a water additive that you add to the water every month to keep the pH at 7.0. Also called a pH regulator.
 
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MacZ

I think I’m a little confused what is getting recommended. I have a drop checker that it’s in the tank and changes color based on pH.

That is what you use to keep track of the CO2 in the tank. It shows you visually what's happening. I didn't know this is called a drop checker in English.

there are two types of pH regulators that I can find. One is a plug-in for the solenoid (see picture). Is this what you’re referring to as a “pH regulator?

That one is what I meant. It measures the pH in the tank and regulates the amount of CO2 to keep the level. For that level there are charts for the relation of CO2, KH and pH.

The combination is basically a failsafe. While the drop checker will tell you in any case what's going on in the tank, it will also show you if the regulator that regulates the CO2 is working correctly.
 
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Mudminnow

Personally, I find those pH regulators to be unnecessary, and, therefore, a wasted expense. Will your pH swing from day to night without one? Yes. Is this a problem? No. I've kept quite a few high tech planted tanks without a pH regulator. The fish were always perfectly happy. I have read that certain fish from hard water habitats can be stressed by the lower pH values, but, from what I understand, it is more about the pH reached than the actual swing.

Also, if your tank is new, or at least newly planted, I'm of the opinion that you should not cut your fertilizers. New plants can be under a lot of stress adapting to a new home. If they don't have the food they need, this stress is only aggravated. And, stressed plants don't protect themselves from algae very well. In fact, the leaves of stressed plants often release algae food into the water making problems worse. Not adding a fertilizer is essentially gambling that your fish waste and tap water have everything in it that your plants need. This is not always the case, so why take the chance?

Healthy plants are the key. Make your plants healthy, and algae will have a tough time growing on them. New, healthy growth is especially resistant. That is why I recommend getting fast growing hardy plants, and removing any dead/dying/infected leaves. The more healthy growing plants you have, the less places algae has left to grow.

As far as algae eaters are concerned, they take the algae and turn it into fish poop. Then, through water changes, you will remove the waste put in the tank by the poop. This is very helpful, and it further tips the balance in favor of the plants. You don't have to have algae eaters to achieve this, but they make things so much easier. And, they're pretty cool in their own right too.
 
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Redshark1

I agree with the above post. Get your plants growing so that you have to prune them regularly and you won't see any algae, ammonia or nitrate. Algae will be outcompeted and you won't need to add algae eaters.

Its all about achieving a balance. I keep things simple and don't add Co2 or fertilisers, I have low light and I grow easy plants. My planted tanks are easier to maintain than my unplanted tanks.
 
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MacZ

Personally, I find those pH regulators to be unnecessary, and, therefore, a wasted expense. Will your pH swing from day to night without one? Yes. Is this a problem? No. I've kept quite a few high tech planted tanks without a pH regulator. The fish were always perfectly happy. I have read that certain fish from hard water habitats can be stressed by the lower pH values, but, from what I understand, it is more about the pH reached than the actual swing.

It has nothing to do with the fish, it's just a - in my opinion - useful tool to keep the CO2 levels balanced and the overall amounts infused to the tank basically at the level that's actually used. It can reduce the cost for CO2 quite a lot that way. The people I know that switched to these things cut their use in half.
Just to be clear: I'm talking about a sensor that regulates the CO2 according to pH, not the chemicals that are sold as pH-regulators.

And you're correct hardwater species should simply not be kept in low hardness/low pH. They die off, while softwater species in hardwater can live happily for quite a while.

Healthy plants are the key. Make your plants healthy, and algae will have a tough time growing on them. New, healthy growth is especially resistant. That is why I recommend getting fast growing hardy plants, and removing any dead/dying/infected leaves. The more healthy growing plants you have, the less places algae has left to grow.

I can't but agree.

I myself don't use any fertilizers, CO2 or anything high tech. Blackwater doesn't need any of that stuff. I have only epiphytes and floating plants. Underwater the lights are too low for plant or algae growth. Any of that only happens within the first few cm underwater.
 
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GlennO

I agree I think a ph controller is more of a luxury than a necessity. Perhaps warranted if you have an unreliable regulator and/or extremely sensitive needle valve that is difficult to adjust. But OP has a very good quality regulator and with a drop checker and with an understanding of the ph/KH/CO2 relationship he should be fine.

Mind you, I have only been using pressurised CO2 for about a year. I haven’t experienced an end of tank dump or other disaster that has resulted in gassing of fish or any other problems regulating CO2 manually. If I ever did I might change my view.

Edit: The efficiency aspect I hadn't realised. Something to consider.
 
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Galgenstrick

I think I’ll keep these SAEs for a little while at least and see how they do. Right now they’ve made a lot of noticeable progress on some of the worst BBA in the aquarium.

as far as CO2 cost goes. I have a two 20lb tanks, it’s $30 to refill each. I’ve had them for 4 months and the first one is going strong. And that was at unnecessary high bubble rates. I am OK with that expense. But as a scientist I like having the fancy gadgets, so I might consider picking up a regulator once I know I’m capable of keeping fish in general.

From what I’m understanding there is a balance between light, fertilizer, and CO2. fertilizer might be the biggest variable to get correct for me because it includes how much you’re feeding the fish, as well as root tabs and dosing the water.

Do you guys have general guidelines for feeding amount?
 
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Mudminnow

From what I’m understanding there is a balance between light, fertilizer, and CO2. fertilizer might be the biggest variable to get correct for me because it includes how much you’re feeding the fish, as well as root tabs and dosing the water.
Exactly.
Do you guys have general guidelines for feeding amount?
Not really other than to keep it consistent. If you feed a little most of the time and then one day decide to feed a lot, you may get a mini ammonia spike that can lead to algae.
 
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Galgenstrick

Not really other than to keep it consistent.

is once a day pretty typical? I’m currently feeding them once at night when their lights start dimming. Should I keep with that schedule indefinitely?
 
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Mudminnow

is once a day pretty typical? I’m currently feeding them once at night when their lights start dimming. Should I keep with that schedule indefinitely?
Oh, I don't know what is typical. But, I've been able to get away with single feedings per day in almost all of the tanks I've had. So, that's what I do. The only fish I ever had that just couldn't seem to get by with single feedings were some wild mollies I caught. They needed multiple feedings.

Spend time closely observing your fish. If they get too thin, feed more. If they get too fat, feed less. Just don't change things up too fast.
 
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Galgenstrick

Wanted to update this. What a MASSIVE difference from last weeks water change! Virtually zero algae growth this week. Plants are about 25% bigger and much healthier looking! Still BBA on some of the rocks and filter, but the SAEs are attacking it voraciously.

i did my water test today before water change.

GH = 16
KH = 14
PH = 7.2

Based on the pH and KH chart, I have just enough CO2, could probably increase it a hair.

not sure where the GH comes into play?
 
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Galgenstrick

Update here. And could use some more help!
I’ve been following all the advice you guys have been giving me, growing out my plants has been a success! I have a little bit of normal green algae which is easy to remove each water change. My fish are very happy now, with lots of places to swim and hide.
I believe I am now at the point where I can start trimming my plants and aquascaping a bit. I am not sure how you typically trim these dwarf Sagittaria plants. They are now over 2 feet long! Should I trim the tops off, or cut out some of the longest leaves completely?
 
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mattgirl

Oh my goodness what beautiful jungle vals. I think what you bought and what you got are two different plants. Dwarf Sagittaria normally only gets 3 to 5 inches tall. These plants would look great lining the back of your tank.

StarGirl do you trim your jungle vals and if so can your offer some help here?
 
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Mudminnow

Oh man, you sure got those plants to grow. :) It looks nice and healthy though. Now you just need to clear some space in the middle for viewing (if you want). Those dwarf sagittaria don't look so dwarf anymore. If you want to check to make sure they aren't actually a vallisneria, run your fingers down the edges of the leaf. If you can feel little teeth, it's a val. If it feels smooth, it's a sag.

It has been a while since I grew sagittaria, and I don't remember how it responds to trimming.
 
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Galgenstrick

Yes, you guys are correct! They are vallisneria
 
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StarGirl

Oh my goodness what beautiful jungle vals. I think what you bought and what you got are two different plants. Dwarf Sagittaria normally only gets 3 to 5 inches tall. These plants would look great lining the back of your tank.

StarGirl do you trim your jungle vals and if so can your offer some help here?
I do but they don't like it. They turn brown on the ends but keep growing. They grow so fast it really doesn't matter. They grow several inches a day. I have tons thou and they are always swarming up top in a few days after trimming them.
 
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GlennO

I do but they don't like it. They turn brown on the ends but keep growing. They grow so fast it really doesn't matter. They grow several inches a day. I have tons thou and they are always swarming up top in a few days after trimming them.

Yeah they don't like it and they don't look the best with damaged cut ends but there's not really an option if you need them shorter. Except perhaps to cut off the longer outer leaves at the base leaving the younger shorter ones. But that would be a painstaking task that would need to be repeated frequently.
 
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FreshwaterCole

Great looking Vallisernia jungle!
We find cutting them like grass works, a 45° angle seems to slow them...a bit lol.
Remember to cut the runners if you wanna thin out the jungle. I haven't found a substrate that Val can't send runners through!
 
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