Where To Put Fine Filter In Eheim Canister?

[jake37]

So in a unrelated thread JayH suggested that the fine filter should go below the bio media to prevent 'clogging' of the media. This makes sense given his description but it is the first time in years that I have read threads on these filters to suggest such an arrangement. Most people indicate that the bio media does well for years if not life with an occasional rinse but JayH suggest the they become clogged with debris making them ineffective and impossible to clean. Given what he says sounds logical I thought I would start a thread on this topic since I've never seen a similar statement and people seem to have success without replacing the bio media. Form my personal usage I don't have a way to determine if the media is effective other than ammonia stays at 0 in my tank but perhaps there is something else negative happening (or will happen long term) that I should concern myself.
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Does anyone else know long term if having the fine filter above the bio substrate causes it to become ineffective or is there something about hte eheim bio substrate that makes cleaning (rinsing in tank water) effective enough to keep it useable.

 

[Feohw]

The fine floss is there to catch particles. Ideally the water would hit it first before reaching the rest of the media (I use sponges before the floss though). The pores can get clogged on the biomedia and I want them to last as long as possible. With the floss/sponge first the particles will get caught before they reach the media and you will avoid at least most of the clogging. If they are in the top as advertised the particles will have to go through the rest of the media which isn't ideal. You have to remember the pores on a lot of media are very small and washing off the larger particles won't necessarily get rid of any tiny ones that are clogging it. I have my eheim filter set up like this:

Bottom tray (where water first comes into contact with the media on my filter - Course sponge - Fine sponge - filter floss
Second tray - bio media
Third tray - bio media.

I skip out of chemical media. Which eheim filter is this?

 

[jake37]

This is the classic 2217 - it has no baskets. The recommended layer is ceramic rings bottom; coarse sponge; bio media; fine filter (the water flows in from the bottom hitting the ceramic rings first and the pump is on top). Naturally we can put things in any order we wish but that is the order the company recommends and most people use. Given JayH comments I could put the fine filter below the bio media and then a second fine filter above them (though that would reduce flow) or a fine net such as panties above the bio media (the filter has no basket and bagging media is discouraged).

Which eheim filter is this?

 

[Coptapia]

Porous media need to be kept extremely clean or the tiny pores and tunnels will quickly clog up. This will effectively turn them into non-porous media, and is what actually happens in 99% of filters over time. Some porous media can be unblocked by microwaving them, which heats the water inside to steam which expands and clears the pores.
The fine media are ok before it unless they’re very fine (‘polishing’). Polishing pads also need to be last or they’ll clog up very quickly and slow the filter down.

Ideally, for porous media to remain porous it needs a lot of mechanical filtration before it, so it’s only getting clean water. Anything less will reduce its (internal) surface area. So as much coarse, medium then fine as you like. Then polishing pads on top, if you use them.

 

[JayH]

I was heavily influenced in this by Richard Thew, The Pond Guru. (Check his YouTube channel.) It's like a mantra with him -- mechanical first, then biological, then chemical (if desired). He talks explicitly about what he sees as bad advice to put fine mechanical media after the biological media. It is very commonly done and Eheim isn't the only manufacturer to suggest such a thing.

There's a lot of stuff done in this hobby because that's the way it's always been done. I think the fine mechanical filter going last is just such a thing. Somebody got the notion that the "polishing" filter stage should be last and everybody has simply followed suit. When convention flies in the face of logic and there isn't a clear justification for the convention, I say go with logic.

I do suspect the clogging of the biological media depends a lot on the specific media. A number of the ceramic products don't really have very deep crevices. Plastic bio balls have no tiny crevices to get clogged. These will clean up fairly easily with just a swish in tank water. It's when you get into media with much deeper crevices, like Matrix, Biohome, or the Eheim sintered glass media you mentioned in the other thread, that clogging becomes a significant issue.

If you want something on top of the biological media to ensure it doesn't get into the pump, you can pick up with plastic needlepoint canvas pretty cheap. Just cut it to size and that will protect the pump.

 

[Feohw]

This is the classic 2217 - it has no baskets. The recommended layer is ceramic rings bottom; coarse sponge; bio media; fine filter (the water flows in from the bottom hitting the ceramic rings first and the pump is on top). Naturally we can put things in any order we wish but that is the order the company recommends and most people use. Given JayH comments I could put the fine filter below the bio media and then a second fine filter above them (though that would reduce flow) or a fine net such as panties above the bio media (the filter has no basket and bagging media is discouraged).

Personally I wouldn't bother putting one above. Though with that filter it isn't ideal for having the sponge on the bottom as it will be squished by the media. Pondguru is good at showing how filters would ideally be set up. Here's a video of the classic 250 (2213) demonstrates how it should be done. My ecco pro is easier to do this with as it has baskets for the different levels of media.

JayH we think alike. Me likey. OP the media you have is fine, he loves biohome but you really don't need it. The rest is great info.

 

[jake37]

Interesting video. The 2217 is slightly different than the 2213 but similar. Seems like a pia to get the fine filter below the bio. I know he effectively made a basket from a pot but not sure I should run out and do something similar. I guess I could look into it next time I clean the filter.

As for protecting the pump - not sure it is needed but per his design I could just put a carbon filter above the bio - even if the carbon itself is 'dead' it would serve to protect the pump - or I could put a second coarse sponge.

Personally I wouldn't bother putting one above. Though with that filter it isn't ideal for having the sponge on the bottom as it will be squished by the media. Pondguru is good at showing how filters would ideally be set up. Here's a video of the classic 250 (2213) demonstrates how it should be done. My ecco pro is easier to do this with as it has baskets for the different levels of media.

JayH we think alike. Me likey. OP the media you have is fine, he loves biohome but you really don't need it. The rest is great info.

 

[Islandvic]

I've watched videos on YouTube where people clean their canisters and their bio-media is absolutely filthy.

I'm not sure if their baskets are somehow by-passing water, they don't have their media stacked appropriately or what.

My bio-media in my Aquaclears and canisters have never looked very "dirty" at all. A quick shake in a bucket of tank water and they're all good again.

I use various sponge pre-filters on all of my intakes though. It seems to help tremendously.

Ive noticed Pondguru actually has made many references about how he likes Eheim's Substrat-Pro. It is sintered glass just like his bio-home, and being small and uniform in size, a lot of it can be packed into a given area.

He even uses the Eheim Mech on occasion as a coarse mechanical stage, just how it was intended to be used.

I like using Polyfil batting. It can be layered and cut to size easily.

Amazon also has a huge selection of bulk roll filter floas media, usually 12" x 72" or 12" x 120" for $11-$18. I've used those also and they work well.

 

[jake37]

Yea the real effort is finding something that will allow the fine filter to fit below the eheim pro (that is what comes with the 2217) without being crushed. Hum. I'll think about it.

I've watched videos on YouTube where people clean their canisters and their bio-media is absolutely filthy.

I'm not sure if their baskets are somehow by-passing water, they don't have their media stacked appropriately or what.

My bio-media in my Aquaclears and canisters have never looked very "dirty" at all. A quick shake in a bucket of tank water and they're all good again.

I use various sponge pre-filters on all of my intakes though. It seems to help tremendously.

Ive noticed Pondguru actually has made many references about how he likes Eheim's Substrat-Pro. It is sintered glass just like his bio-home, and being small and uniform in size, a lot of it can be packed into a given area.

He even uses the Eheim Mech on occasion as a coarse mechanical stage, just how it was intended to be used.

I like using Polyfil batting. It can be layered and cut to size easily.

Amazon also has a huge selection of bulk roll filter floas media, usually 12" x 72" or 12" x 120" for $11-$18. I've used those also and they work well.

 

[johnbirg]

I've watched videos on YouTube where people clean their canisters and their bio-media is absolutely filthy.

I'm not sure if their baskets are somehow by-passing water, they don't have their media stacked appropriately or what.

My bio-media in my Aquaclears and canisters have never looked very "dirty" at all. A quick shake in a bucket of tank water and they're all good again.

I use various sponge pre-filters on all of my intakes though. It seems to help tremendously.

Ive noticed Pondguru actually has made many references about how he likes Eheim's Substrat-Pro. It is sintered glass just like his bio-home, and being small and uniform in size, a lot of it can be packed into a given area.

He even uses the Eheim Mech on occasion as a coarse mechanical stage, just how it was intended to be used.

I like using Polyfil batting. It can be layered and cut to size easily.

Amazon also has a huge selection of bulk roll filter floas media, usually 12" x 72" or 12" x 120" for $11-$18. I've used those also and they work well.

Totally agree but would like to add that the Eheim baskets simply sit on top of each other and do allow water to bypass the intended flow which is the problem I had with my previous Eheim Professional. I got a Biopro ( also branded as Sun Sun and others) and the trays are moulded so that each tray seals to the one underneath. A much better design. I have had the Biopro running for almost 6 months now and it does a fantasic job. Water is crystal clear and it's set up with mechanical filtration first then bio no chemical. Contains 4 kg sintered glass media which hardly needs any rinsing. I have seeviced it twice in 6 months.

 

[GlennO]

Yeah it makes sense to have the finest pad or sponge prior to the bio-media. I am doing this with my Fluval canister but it’s much more difficult with the basket-less Eheim Classics. I think I’ll leave my 2215 as is. They’ve been used that way very successfully for decades so I don’t think it’s something I need to stress over.

 

[Jonmott]

In my 2217 it’s all course sponge then a fine pad on top but I don’t have a high bio load