What’s wrong with my tetras, colours fading erratic swimming?

[Annabanana728]

I was gone for most of the day and I got home and my tetras looked like this. What’s going on, their all spread out and I can’t find 2 of the 6. Their colors all faded, their not schooling, and their darting around then resting. it’s very weird what’s wrong?!

 

[Mattherrt]

I’m not sure, but I would guess something is wrong with your water quality. If you fill out the emergency form, it can help us figure out what might be wrong.

 

[RedOnion]

Can you fill out the emergency form?

 

[Annabanana728]

My water has no nitrate and not nitrite. It’s 70 degrees. It’s been running for 8 months and was fully cycled before I added the tetras. There’s nothing with them except a few cherry shrimp. They have had no pre-existing health conditions. I’m very worried. Should I remove them from the tank??
They were completely fine this morning.

 

[Mattherrt]

What’s the ammonia like?

 

[RedOnion]

My water has no nitrate and not nitrite. It’s 70 degrees. It’s been running for 8 months and was fully cycled before I added the tetras. There’s nothing with them except a few cherry shrimp. They have had no pre-existing health conditions. I’m very worried. Should I remove them from the tank??
They were completely fine this morning.

any ammonia?

 

[Annabanana728]

Ammonias at 0.25 ppm. Is that to high for neons? First time with them. Do I need a water change? Aquarium salt? How would you go about helping my fish?

 

[RedOnion]

Hm, you can do a water change to lower it, its not much so doing a water change should get rid of it if your tap has no ammonia. What is the size of the tank and are they all the same species of tetras?

 

[Annabanana728]

10 gallon, all neon tetras. Uggh...people were right when they say neons are always sick, maybe I’ll go with cardinals next time ):

 

[RedOnion]

They could be in shock if you have added them in recently, try turning off the lights so it can calm them down.

 

[GlennO]

Have you checked the temperature to ensure that your heater hasn't failed?

 

[tomiyama]

Yes if you can get your ammonia to zero, and unfortunately cardinal tetras are just as sensitive as neons (I would feed every other day for a few weeks and feed VERY sparingly). They may be too sick to eat anyway....

 

[Annabanana728]

There’s actually no heater in the tank, (there used to be and I still have it) I moved it out because I live in California and my tank started getting to about 78 degrees which is a little high for my fish who have live in 70-72 degree water most of the time. So I moved it out and now it sits at about 72ish with no help. do you think I should put it back in?

 

[RedOnion]

There’s actually no heater in the tank, (there used to be and I still have it) I moved it out because I live in California and my tank started getting to about 78 degrees which is a little high for my fish who have live in 70-72 degree water most of the time. So I moved it out and now it sits at about 72ish with no help. do you think I should put it back in?

I would put it back in for stability, you never know when it will drop. You dont want it drastically fluctuating a lot.

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

Uhh another smear on neon tetra's hardiness

The problem is not with the species, the problem is with the water. Any ammonia > 0 is bad for the fish, 72F is also too cold for neons which live in 86F water naturally

 

[Annabanana728]

Uhh another smear on neon tetra's hardiness

The problem is not with the species, the problem is with the water. Any ammonia > 0 is bad for the fish, 72F is also too cold for neons which live in 86F water naturally

Ok I’ll raised my temp and get that ammonia down somehow. Thanks to everybody who has helped!!!

 

[GlennO]

72F is also too cold for neons which live in 86F water naturally

Are you sure? 86F is 30C

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

Are you sure? 86F is 30C

Yes the Amazon River is 30C year round

From a geological survey of the Amazon:

"The year-around water temperature of the Amazon river between Belem and Manaus ranges from 84° F to 86° F. The temperature profiles taken from the surface to the bottom show that mixing of the river by turbulence maintains a constant temperature throughout the river's depth. " (Page 15)

https://pubs.usgs.gov/unnumbered/70046378/report.pdf

 

[tomiyama]

Good luck! Also, when you raise the temperature (which is a good idea), I would do it gradually, and even maybe only to 76-78 degrees slowly over the days as fluctuations (as mentioned above) are just as harmful. The slower the acclimation, the better .

 

[qmor123]

Neon tetras occur naturally in several regions (not just northern Brazil) and the temperature range is quite wide. In addition, it should be borne in mind that most of those neon tetras supplied for aquariums are not caught in the wild. They typically come from many generations of captive-bred stock and have adapted to a normal temperature range of 21°-25°C (70°–77°F).

A temperature of around 75°F should be fine but it's probably wise not to let it fluctuate too much.

The behaviour of the fish (loss of colour, listlessness) is usually a sign of stress caused by shock or poor water quality. How recently did you add them? The tank may have cycled to cope with the shrimp but suddenly adding 6 neon tetras imposes a whole new level of bioload and it takes time for the bacteria to catch up - hence the ammonia spike.

 

[Annabanana728]

They’ve been in for about 2 months at this point. I cycled the tank before hand. They seem to be back to normal-ish, but still some weird swimming pattern. Also my tap waters ammonia is very high so it’s hard to get my ammonia down to zero. And suggestions would be greatly appreciated to get that down! I’m dosing with prime.

 

[Shrimp42]

They’ve been in for about 2 months at this point. I cycled the tank before hand. They seem to be back to normal-ish, but still some weird swimming pattern. Also my tap waters ammonia is very high so it’s hard to get my ammonia down to zero. And suggestions would be greatly appreciated to get that down! I’m dosing with prime.

You could take new water in a 5 gallon+ bucket/container, buy a cheap filter from Walmart or online, buy some nitrazorb,zeolite, or something that chemically removes nitrogen, and run the filter on the bucket for 24 hours then test ammonia.

 

[MacZ]

Yes the Amazon River is 30C year round

From a geological survey of the Amazon:

"The year-around water temperature of the Amazon river between Belem and Manaus ranges from 84° F to 86° F. The temperature profiles taken from the surface to the bottom show that mixing of the river by turbulence maintains a constant temperature throughout the river's depth. " (Page 15)

https://pubs.usgs.gov/unnumbered/70046378/report.pdf

That report is from an expedition in the 60s. I don't think all information in it is still holding up.

This is somewhat more up to date. The map also includes temperatures, hardness and conductivity for many of the locations, not only pH as labeled on top. The temperatures are not stable year round and a heavy rainstorm can lower the temperature within minutes to stay lower for hours.

Water values South America

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

That report is from an expedition in the 60s. I don't think all information in it is still holding up.

This is somewhat more up to date. The map also includes temperatures, hardness and conductivity for many of the locations, not only pH as labeled on top. The temperatures are not stable year round and a heavy rainstorm can lower the temperature within minutes to stay lower for hours.

Water values South America

Based on the map widget in your link, I clicked on a few spots and the temperature displayed was still pretty high, from 26C - 32C

If you click along the spots of the Amazon River it is still consistently around 26C - 30C.

I'm sure there are areas in the entire continent of South America with lower temperatures but the general idea is that these tropical fish live in pretty high water temperatures.

I don't know why people keep disputing this fact

 

[MacZ]

Based on the map widget in your link, I clicked on a few spots and the temperature displayed was still pretty high, from 26C - 32C

If you click along the spots of the Amazon River it is still consistently around 26C - 30C.

I'm sure there are areas in the entire continent of South America with lower temperatures but the general idea is that these tropical fish live in pretty high water temperatures.

I don't know why people keep disputing this fact

Excatly: UP TO 30°C and even above.

The readings simply disprove your statement of it being steady 30°C year round, which is not taking fluctuations of night and day or after heavy rains or the whole rainy season into account. The year's average is actually a little below 30°C.

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

Excatly: UP TO 30°C and even above.

The readings simply disprove your statement of it being steady 30°C year round, which is not taking fluctuations of night and day or after heavy rains or the whole rainy season into account. The year's average is actually a little below 30°C.

Okay wow, I guess people don't see that it was a generalization??? It's the Amazon River, it's a large body of water. If people go into meticulous temperature readings of the entire river they are going to find temperature fluctuations.

If you don't like my statement of 30C what would you say instead? There are areas with average temperatures below 30C and there are areas with average temperatures of above 30C.... I chose 30C which is of course arbitrary. You can say any temperature between 26C-32C and it will not be any more useful because again, the area is large and the average temperature of the entire river does not mean much to a specific locality.

Anyways, it seems like people are missing the point, which is that the natural water temperatures that neons live in are QUITE HIGH, much higher than what most hobbyists keep them at.

 

[MacZ]

Okay wow, I guess people don't see that it was a generalization??? It's the Amazon River, it's a large body of water. If people go into meticulous temperature readings of the entire river they are going to find temperature fluctuations.

If you don't like my statement of 30C what would you say instead? There are areas with average temperatures below 30C and there are areas with average temperatures of above 30C.... I chose 30C which is of course arbitrary. You can say any temperature between 26C-32C and it will not be any more useful because again, the area is large and the average temperature of the entire river does not mean much to a specific locality.

Anyways, it seems like people are missing the point, which is that the natural water temperatures that neons live in are QUITE HIGH, much higher than what most hobbyists keep them at.

I would not have said anything had you said "average" instead of "year round"; a number that's closer to the actual average (~27°C, which can be looked up in more than one more recent source, if you had not just taken the first hit when googleing "water temperature amazon river"); and given a source that's not 60 years old.
Three reasons to not let this stand on its own.

And the area may be large, there are still seasons, and although people might still think "the tropics don't have real seasons" as they learned in school, the average water temp in what can be called "winter" there is only around 24°C, the summer is averaging at 30°C. Not for nothing there are DATES given with all the individual readings in the map I linked.

Also as qmor123 pointed out, most neons in the trade are not wild caught but farm raised and bred in lower temperatures.

Nobody doubts that tropical fish should be kept in higher temperatures, but you might want to consider that such inconsiderate numbers as this one might make people think this is the average and go higher to numbers where oxygenation is at the bare limit.

So this is not meant personal, but we have a certain responsibilty here on this forum to try and give numbers and advise that is to a certain degree reliable. Everybody makes mistakes sometimes. I myself too, I freely admit that.

 

[Megaanemp]

Ok I’ll raised my temp and get that ammonia down somehow. Thanks to everybody who has helped!!!

It would be very helpful if you could fill out the emergency template. Here’s the link, pls copy and paste it into your reply and fill out the info the best you can. It’s ok if you don’t have all of the info.
Aquatic Emergency Template | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 376562

What else is in the tank and how big is the tank?

What’s your pH? Sometimes low pH can cause a liquid test kit to indicate a small amount of ammonia while it’s actually detecting ammonium. Even if this is the case if it ever reads more than 0.25ppm then you need to do a water change right away. I would recommend dosing with Seachem prime every 48 hours as a safety net until we get this figured out.

I also recommend you find out what your nitrate level is, it could be too high and causing stress.

I would add a heater to the tank to keep the temp more stable. Fish can adjust somewhat to in ideal temps but it’s quick fluctuations that tend to be very dangerous even if the temperature is fluctuating within the safe temperature range for the fish. I would recommend you aim to keep the water at around 74F if they are in fact neon tetras. I can’t tell from the photo (sorry if you said what they were and I missed it.

I hope this helps, we may be able to give you more sound advise if we can gather a little more info. For now turning the light off in their tank may also help reduce some stress.

 

[Annabanana728]

It would be very helpful if you could fill out the emergency template. Here’s the link, pls copy and paste it into your reply and fill out the info the best you can. It’s ok if you don’t have all of the info.
Aquatic Emergency Template | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 376562

What else is in the tank and how big is the tank?

What’s your pH? Sometimes low pH can cause a liquid test kit to indicate a small amount of ammonia while it’s actually detecting ammonium. Even if this is the case if it ever reads more than 0.25ppm then you need to do a water change right away. I would recommend dosing with Seachem prime every 48 hours as a safety net until we get this figured out.

I also recommend you find out what your nitrate level is, it could be too high and causing stress.

I would add a heater to the tank to keep the temp more stable. Fish can adjust somewhat to in ideal temps but it’s quick fluctuations that tend to be very dangerous even if the temperature is fluctuating within the safe temperature range for the fish. I would recommend you aim to keep the water at around 74F if they are in fact neon tetras. I can’t tell from the photo (sorry if you said what they were and I missed it.

I hope this helps, we may be able to give you more sound advise if we can gather a little more info. For now turning the light off in their tank may also help reduce some stress.

Hi! Yes they are neon tetras, Nitrate and nitrite are at zero and my ph is about 7.6, my temp is at 74.3 and that is with no heater (I live in California and it’s about 80 degrees currently)

The ammonia test is 0.25, I will continue dosing with prime. My tap waters ammonia is very high so it’s difficult to get it down. My tetras have gotten their color back and are eating.
Also...for the love of fishlore....please stop arguing about the Amazon rivers Temperature, please be respectful, that’s What I love about fishlore

 

[Kfishy17]

I was gone for most of the day and I got home and my tetras looked like this. What’s going on, their all spread out and I can’t find 2 of the 6. Their colors all faded, their not schooling, and their darting around then resting. it’s very weird what’s wrong?!

Hey so I’ve had a ton of success with neon tetras. I keep my tank at 83°. They love the warmer water, and the temp helps reduce chances of infections like ich. Also, you NEED to buy a heater. My guess is because you’re just allowing the air to cool/heat, your temperature fluctuates a ton. Fish hate that. Any time you change the temperature you’re supposed to do it slowly because it can stress them out, and stressing them out is what leads to the lack of color. And buy a little cheapo stick on thermometer to put in your tank so you can periodically check the temp to make sure it’s still good
Lastly, what are you feeding them?

 

[Annabanana728]

Hey so I’ve had a ton of success with neon tetras. I keep my tank at 83°. They love the warmer water, and the temp helps reduce chances of infections like ich. Also, you NEED to buy a heater. My guess is because you’re just allowing the air to cool/heat, your temperature fluctuates a ton. Fish hate that. Any time you change the temperature you’re supposed to do it slowly because it can stress them out, and stressing them out is what leads to the lack of color. And buy a little cheapo stick on thermometer to put in your tank so you can periodically check the temp to make sure it’s still good
Lastly, what are you feeding them?

I have a heater, it’s just not in the tank, and I have a thermometer in the tank aswell. They get. They eat hikari micro pellets.

 

[Kfishy17]

I have a heater, it’s just not in the tank, and I have a thermometer in the tank aswell. They get. They eat hikari micro pellets.

I’d put the heater back in the tank. It’ll help keep the temperature more consistent. Like I said, any fluctuations in the temperatures stress them out. The food is good. Sometimes if the food isn’t good enough it can make them paler. I’d also mix in some frozen blood worms/brine shrimp. It’s a nice treat for them and it’s very healthy. The healthier they eat, the more they color up

 

[DoubleDutch]

Hey so I’ve had a ton of success with neon tetras. I keep my tank at 83°. They love the warmer water, and the temp helps reduce chances of infections like ich. Also, you NEED to buy a heater. My guess is because you’re just allowing the air to cool/heat, your temperature fluctuates a ton. Fish hate that. Any time you change the temperature you’re supposed to do it slowly because it can stress them out, and stressing them out is what leads to the lack of color. And buy a little cheapo stick on thermometer to put in your tank so you can periodically check the temp to make sure it’s still good
Lastly, what are you feeding them?

Uhhhh how does a temp of 83F reduce the chance for infections like Ich ?
And why does the airtemp exactly make the tanktemperature fluctuate a ton?

Do neons actually live in the Amazon river or in the Amazon bassin / region?
Is the temperature in the main river a good projection for the small rivers that are close to the Andes (snow) or are the result of enormous (cold) rainshowers occuring in the rainy season. Yes, the further from places like these the warmer the water will get (Brasil ) but I doubt one can say that the entire enormous bassin has the same high temp the year around.

 

[Kfishy17]

Uhhhh how does a temp of 83F reduce the chance for infections like Ich ?
And why does the airtemp exactly make the tanktemperature fluctuate a ton?

Do neons actually live in the Amazon river or in the Amazon bassin / region?
Is the temperature in the main river a good projection for the small rivers that are close to the Andes (snow) or are the result of enormous (cold) rainshowers occuring in the rainy season. Yes, the further from places like these the warmer the water will get (Brasil ) but I doubt one can say that the entire enormous bassin has the same high temp the year around.

The higher temp reduces the life cycle of ich. Ich doesn’t do as well in higher temperatures. Just like fish, it has a preferred range it like to stay in. 83 is a little too high for ich.

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

I would not have said anything had you said "average" instead of "year round"; a number that's closer to the actual average (~27°C, which can be looked up in more than one more recent source, if you had not just taken the first hit when googleing "water temperature amazon river"); and given a source that's not 60 years old.
Three reasons to not let this stand on its own.

And the area may be large, there are still seasons, and although people might still think "the tropics don't have real seasons" as they learned in school, the average water temp in what can be called "winter" there is only around 24°C, the summer is averaging at 30°C. Not for nothing there are DATES given with all the individual readings in the map I linked.

Also as qmor123 pointed out, most neons in the trade are not wild caught but farm raised and bred in lower temperatures.

Nobody doubts that tropical fish should be kept in higher temperatures, but you might want to consider that such inconsiderate numbers as this one might make people think this is the average and go higher to numbers where oxygenation is at the bare limit.

So this is not meant personal, but we have a certain responsibilty here on this forum to try and give numbers and advise that is to a certain degree reliable. Everybody makes mistakes sometimes. I myself too, I freely admit that.

Okay I see this is where our opinions differ. I don't see 30C as an inconsiderate number. I believe this temperature is GOOD for neons.

But of course there are other factors to consider. Higher temperatures also mean faster bacteria metabolism, so having good tank maintenance and low waste is still important.

Uhhhh how does a temp of 83F reduce the chance for infections like Ich ?
And why does the airtemp exactly make the tanktemperature fluctuate a ton?

Do neons actually live in the Amazon river or in the Amazon bassin / region?
Is the temperature in the main river a good projection for the small rivers that are close to the Andes (snow) or are the result of enormous (cold) rainshowers occuring in the rainy season. Yes, the further from places like these the warmer the water will get (Brasil ) but I doubt one can say that the entire enormous bassin has the same high temp the year around.

Its not a good projection, it doesn't really say much. There are areas with higher temperatures and areas with lower.

The general idea is that most temperatures are quite high and higher than what most people think neons should be kept in

 

[Kfishy17]

Uhhhh how does a temp of 83F reduce the chance for infections like Ich ?
And why does the airtemp exactly make the tanktemperature fluctuate a ton?

Do neons actually live in the Amazon river or in the Amazon bassin / region?
Is the temperature in the main river a good projection for the small rivers that are close to the Andes (snow) or are the result of enormous (cold) rainshowers occuring in the rainy season. Yes, the further from places like these the warmer the water will get (Brasil ) but I doubt one can say that the entire enormous bassin has the same high temp the year around.

As far as air temp, the larger the body of water the less effect air temp has on water temp. Think of a lake like Lake Michigan. It gets cold in the winter and warmer in the summer, but it takes forever to get warm enough to swim in even when air temp is perfect. Now your fish tank is a heck of a lot smaller than Lake Michigan. It heats and cools a lot faster. An example would be all the fish owners in Texas. They’re unable to power with heaters, and because it’s so cold down there their tanks are getting to less than 60°.

as far as the whole “wear do neons come from”, I haven’t actually looked into it. But I do know they like it warmer. It was just always common knowledge for me, though I don’t remember where I learned it. I just know that I’ve never had an issue with my neons being sick (maybe luck). I had no idea they were so finicky with their environment

 

[Megaanemp]

Hi! Yes they are neon tetras, Nitrate and nitrite are at zero and my ph is about 7.6, my temp is at 74.3 and that is with no heater (I live in California and it’s about 80 degrees currently)

The ammonia test is 0.25, I will continue dosing with prime. My tap waters ammonia is very high so it’s difficult to get it down. My tetras have gotten their color back and are eating.
Also...for the love of fishlore....please stop arguing about the Amazon rivers Temperature, please be respectful, that’s What I love about fishlore

That’s great to hear!
I would suggest adding some plants such as java fern if you don’t already have some. Plants prefer ammonia as a source of nutrient over nitrite and Nitrate so they can really help suck up any extra ammonia. Dosing with prime will also help protect the fish while your filter converts the ammonia. Your pH is high enough that your test kit isnt mistaking ammonium for ammonia So definitely keep an eye on it, I more notice this issue at a pH of about 6.4 or lower.

I’d still recommend you add the heater, the fish should be okay at the higher temp because it is a seasonal change that happened over time. However, the heater set to the mid range of their acceptable range should prevent them from ever getting too cold. If the temp fluctuation from day to night is drastic where your are you may even want to consider setting the heater to only a couple degrees lower than the average ambient day time temp in order to avoid large fluctuation.

You can gradually reduce the setting of your heater when the ambient temperature of your house cools in order to match it. While I feel that it is probably not ideal to keep neons at 80F or more long term what’s indisputably more dangerous than steady temps that may be slightly less than ideal is fluctuations that happen too fast.

The truth is sometimes somewhere in the middle when talking about ideal temps. Most fish can usually adapt to these seasonal changes just as long as they aren't wildly far out of their acceptable range and don't happen too quickly. While some may disagree or have had different experiences and I wouldn't want to discount them, I feel that there is evidence to back up that neons will live longer in slightly cooler conditions. However, there is more to take into consideration than temperature when looking at all the factors that effect life span and overall health. A long lifespan also doesn’t always mean a healthy fish. There is also evidence to show that many types of fish that have been tank bred for more generations have developed a wider tolerance to temperature.