Not sure what is happening, fish sickness

[sparklepixie]

This happen quick and sudden.

I have been trying to come up with a timeline and this is what I have so far.

Saturday (one week ago) - Added crushed coral to all tanks to help with low kh (6 tanks in total). I took cycled media from Fish #1's tank and put into Fish #2's tank (Fish #2's tank had a ph crash, which had caused loss of cycle in tank, which caused nitrite spike and poisoned fish. He pulled through, but this caused secondary infection of minor fin rot.) Fish #1's tank had the oldest cycled media and stable, which was reason I took media from it.

Monday - Nerite snail in Fish #1's tank found dead. New born pond snails starting to appear on glass.

Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. - Checked parameters daily on all tanks, mainly because of adding the crushed coral and needing to know what the readings were. Ph went from 7 to 7.4 on all tanks, EXCEPT Fish #2's which was holding at a stable ph of 7 (Normally his PH would drop to 6.2 so I was happy about this). KH rose from 2 to 3. Ammonia and Nitrite were Zero.

Thursday was a fasting day for the fish. Fish #1 acted normal, he was never a very active fish as he had huge, long fins. Yet, he was a hearty eater and most active around feeding time. He looked 'slightly' bloated around his ventral fins. (This didn't alarm me because it was so slight)

Friday is when everything turned for the worst. Fish #1 was hiding in a corner at the top of the tank, near the pre-filter sponge that is over the outake on his fluval spec. I had to tap the glass to get his attention and he came over to where he is normally fed. He ate his soaked in garlic pellets, but then spit them back out. I was then able to see that he was extremely bloated around his ventral and pectoral fins, causing the area to be very pale and white (he is a black betta). I then noticed that he had weird little rod like white protrusions on his side in 4 different places. I tried to see as best I could and it almost looked like worms, but under magnification it was more similar to a 'whitehead'. However, I DID see little squiggly worms at the water line when I was looking at him through the magnifyer.. I am going to assume it was detritus worms? I do not know. I ordered clove oil from amazon that night, because he just didn't look right to me, and I wanted to have it on hand just in case.

Yesterday morning, he was no better and looked to be even more enlarged but there was no pineconing. He was also quite lethargic and seemed to struggle to keep himself aloft unless he spread himself out over the intake vents on his tank which suctioned him to it. From there he went down fast, I ended up moving him to a hospital tank, treated with Maracyn 2 along with heater, some live floating plants for him to rest on. He perched on the plants nearest the surface and didn't move from this position. IT THEN, dawned on me that I had taken media from his tank and put into Fish #2's tank. THIS MADE ME SO SICK WHEN I REALIZED WHAT I HAD DONE.

I pretty much contaminated Fish #2's tank with the media from Fish #1's tank a week earlier. I scrambled and set up another hospital tank for Fish #2. I also dosed Maracyn 2 in his tank, hoping to get ahead of the curve in case it's columnaris.

Now this morning, I wake up and Fish #1 is on the bottom of his tank and near death. I am waiting for the clove oil to arrive and I will be euthanising him, as he is starting to show a small amount of pineconing. Fish#2 is active.

So what is this? Could it be the fast acting strain of columnaris or could it be something else?

 

[jkkgron2]

This happen quick and sudden.

I have been trying to come up with a timeline and this is what I have so far.

Saturday (one week ago) - Added crushed coral to all tanks to help with low kh (6 tanks in total). I took cycled media from Fish #1's tank and put into Fish #2's tank (Fish #2's tank had a ph crash, which had caused loss of cycle in tank, which caused nitrite spike and poisoned fish. He pulled through, but this caused secondary infection of minor fin rot.) Fish #1's tank had the oldest cycled media and stable, which was reason I took media from it.

Monday - Nerite snail in Fish #1's tank found dead. New born pond snails starting to appear on glass.

Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. - Checked parameters daily on all tanks, mainly because of adding the crushed coral and needing to know what the readings were. Ph went from 7 to 7.4 on all tanks, EXCEPT Fish #2's which was holding at a stable ph of 7 (Normally his PH would drop to 6.2 so I was happy about this). KH rose from 2 to 3. Ammonia and Nitrite were Zero.

Thursday was a fasting day for the fish. Fish #1 acted normal, he was never a very active fish as he had huge, long fins. Yet, he was a hearty eater and most active around feeding time. He looked 'slightly' bloated around his ventral fins. (This didn't alarm me because it was so slight)

Friday is when everything turned for the worst. Fish #1 was hiding in a corner at the top of the tank, near the pre-filter sponge that is over the outake on his fluval spec. I had to tap the glass to get his attention and he came over to where he is normally fed. He ate his soaked in garlic pellets, but then spit them back out. I was then able to see that he was extremely bloated around his ventral and pectoral fins, causing the area to be very pale and white (he is a black betta). I then noticed that he had weird little rod like white protrusions on his side in 4 different places. I tried to see as best I could and it almost looked like worms, but under magnification it was more similar to a 'whitehead'. However, I DID see little squiggly worms at the water line when I was looking at him through the magnifyer.. I am going to assume it was detritus worms? I do not know. I ordered clove oil from amazon that night, because he just didn't look right to me, and I wanted to have it on hand just in case.

Yesterday morning, he was no better and looked to be even more enlarged but there was no pineconing. He was also quite lethargic and seemed to struggle to keep himself aloft unless he spread himself out over the intake vents on his tank which suctioned him to it. From there he went down fast, I ended up moving him to a hospital tank, treated with Maracyn 2 along with heater, some live floating plants for him to rest on. He perched on the plants nearest the surface and didn't move from this position. IT THEN, dawned on me that I had taken media from his tank and put into Fish #2's tank. THIS MADE ME SO SICK WHEN I REALIZED WHAT I HAD DONE.

I pretty much contaminated Fish #2's tank with the media from Fish #1's tank a week earlier. I scrambled and set up another hospital tank for Fish #2. I also dosed Maracyn 2 in his tank, hoping to get ahead of the curve in case it's columnaris.

Now this morning, I wake up and Fish #1 is on the bottom of his tank and near death. I am waiting for the clove oil to arrive and I will be euthanising him, as he is starting to show a small amount of pineconing. Fish#2 is active.

So what is this? Could it be the fast acting strain of columnaris or could it be something else?

Could you post some pics of fish #1 and fish #2 (just in case it’s sick)? It would help a lot with diagnosing the problem

 

[sparklepixie]

Yes here are the pictures.
Fish #1 is the Solid Black Betta
Fish #2 is the Black Betta with the white head.

Also to note, Fish #2 has had that redness around his gills since the ph crash that nitrite poisoned him. He also seems slightly lethargic and kinda 'swollen'.

Pics were taken just now.

 

[sparklepixie]

I am starting to think he is going to die before the clove oil gets here today. I need to start thinking about what I am going to do with the tanks. They will have to be disinfected and I am gonna assume everything needs to be thrown out, including the plants.

 

[oldsalt777]

Hello spark...

Most, if not all tank problems are water related. This is because the largest percentage of the tank is water. So, it's good common sense to look there first. I can tell that putting chemicals of any kind into the tank water to fix a chemistry issue is a recipe for disaster. You won't be able to maintain the change for very long. A change in water chemistry is deadly to an aquarium fish.

If you're keeping fish from the local pet store and not attempting to keep rare fish, you don't need to know anything about the water chemistry. It has no importance for keeping a healthy tank with healthy fish. You can start by adding come floating plants like Anacharis or Water lettuce. Just drop some individual stems or plants into the tank. Floating plants help steady the water chemistry. Start a more aggressive water change routine by gradually working up to the point you remove and replace half the water weekly. No excuses. This alone will maintain a steady and healthy water chemistry for the fish. You won't ever need to test the water, you'll know the chemistry is right.

Keep the hobby simple and you'll be successful.

Old

 

[sparklepixie]

Hello spark...

Most, if not all tank problems are water related. This is because the largest percentage of the tank is water. So, it's good common sense to look there first. I can tell that putting chemicals of any kind into the tank water to fix a chemistry issue is a recipe for disaster. You won't be able to maintain the change for very long. A change in water chemistry is deadly to an aquarium fish.

If you're keeping fish from the local pet store and not attempting to keep rare fish, you don't need to know anything about the water chemistry. It has no importance for keeping a healthy tank with healthy fish. You can start by adding come floating plants like Anacharis or Water lettuce. Just drop some individual stems or plants into the tank. Floating plants help steady the water chemistry. Start a more aggressive water change routine by gradually working up to the point you remove and replace half the water weekly. No excuses. This alone will maintain a steady and healthy water chemistry for the fish. You won't ever need to test the water, you'll know the chemistry is right.

Keep the hobby simple and you'll be successful.

Old

I didn't add chemicals, I added crushed coral. I knew from the ph crash that it was because of the kh of my water, which is at a whopping 2. I was also doing 50-75% water changes weekly on all tanks. I also have Anacharis, anubias, water sprite and water wysteria in the tanks. The only thing I can attribute this to (stress wise) is that the heater in the dying fish's tank was going bad, it was 3 years old. It was becoming hard to set the temp and have it kept stable and I removed that heater and put in a new one 2 weeks ago. I know columnaris is usually always present in the water column, but with Fish#2 already comprimised from the ph crash fiasco 3 weeks ago, he could easily get it from the media I put into his tank.

 

[sparklepixie]

He's gone. I ended up euthanizing him. He was such a sweet fish and I am gonna miss him. I was able to get a better look at him after he was gone. He was already starting to pinecone, it was more than I initially thought. I also noticed some white/pale patches around his mouth and gills. So I am pretty sure this was columnaris, and probably the fast acting one.

I am not sure what to do now about Fish #2. He seems more lethargic than he was this morning. He's only been on the med since yesterday and is due for another dose. If I start to see him going the same path, I will euthanize him as well, because I don't want him to suffer either.

I am gonna go ahead and tear down the tank, but since I am not 100% positive that this is columnaris .. should I disinfect the sponge filter and the media that is in his tank? If I was sure it was columnaris, I'd keep the sponge filters.. but with not knowing, I don't want to take a chance. Any opinions?

 

[sparklepixie]

Here are some pictures that I was able to get after he died. You can see the white patches on his side, as well as where it was starting to look fuzzy around his gill and up towards his mouth. It also looks like the swollen part of his belly had a large fuzzy place as well.

Can someone maybe identify for sure what this could be, if not columnaris?

Also I am sorry if someone thinks it's graphic.. I just want to be able to help the fish that hasn't passed yet.

 

[sparklepixie]

Tonight, Fish #2 is acting 'normal' other than he is resting somewhat. But he is alert and has ate.

The tank that my boy who passed, I ended up trashing it. I didn't like the Fluval Spec V anyway, so I completely tore it down. Threw everything away aside from rocks which I put into bleach for about 45 mins along with his siphon.

I am still hoping someone can identify what this was.

 

[jkkgron2]

FinalFins
MissNoodle

 

[FinalFins]

I'm not a guru with disease but it may of been columnarris like you suspected, I just had a oto die of the same fuzzy thing.

 

[MissNoodle]

My suspicion is columnaris as well.

 

[oldsalt777]

Hello...

Columnaris is a bacteria that looks like a white film that develops on the head of the fish. This type of bacteria will develop in tanks that don't get enough water changes. Harmful bacteria can't live and reproduce in pure water. Large, frequent water changes maintain a healthy, steady water chemistry and this is all fish need for good health.

Bacteria, both good and bad, are present in most tanks, but fish that live in pure water conditions aren't likely to get an infection. Most fish will be healthier in water with a trace of salt in it. Especially, fish with scales. The combination of pure water and a trace of salt will stimulate the fishes' immune system and salt calms them. Calm fish, that are never stressed by living in pure water conditions are essentially resistant to an infection.

Old

 

[sparklepixie]

Hello...

Columnaris is a bacteria that looks like a white film that develops on the head of the fish. This type of bacteria will develop in tanks that don't get enough water changes. Harmful bacteria can't live and reproduce in pure water. Large, frequent water changes maintain a healthy, steady water chemistry and this is all fish need for good health.

Bacteria, both good and bad, are present in most tanks, but fish that live in pure water conditions aren't likely to get an infection. Most fish will be healthier in water with a trace of salt in it. Especially, fish with scales. The combination of pure water and a trace of salt will stimulate the fishes' immune system and salt calms them. Calm fish, that are never stressed by living in pure water conditions are essentially resistant to an infection.

Old

I found this article, with the following quoted from it.



on this forum, stickied Columnaris Symptoms And Treatment | Freshwater Fish Disease 263058

CindiL wrote :

"Columnaris is a gram negative aerobic bacterial fish disease. This means that it thrives in well oxygenated, often very "clean" tanks unlike some other diseases that thrive in low O2 and high organic loads."
So I can atest to the fact in my case, I was doing 50-75% water changes weekly and his tank was pretty clean. After reading the first article, I have come to think that because of my quality of water that comes out of my tap is so poor in kh and gh that this was a factor. I am thinking that perhaps a mid-week water change may of helped to remineralize the water and I will take that into consideration going forward, as well as picking up some wonder shells to put in all my tanks along with the crushed coral. I also think the stress of the heater malfunction caused him to become vulnerable. This has been a learning experience for sure.

 

[oldsalt777]

The large, weekly water change will maintain a steady water chemistry and this type of chemistry won't harm your fish. If you got your fish at a local fish store, the store is likely getting its water from the same source you do. As long as you're not breeding rare fish, the hardness, acidity or other chemistry components aren't important to raising and keeping most aquarium fish. They simply need their water to be nitrogen free.

Old

 

[sparklepixie]

The large, weekly water change will maintain a steady water chemistry and this type of chemistry won't harm your fish. If you got your fish at a local fish store, the store is likely getting its water from the same source you do. As long as you're not breeding rare fish, the hardness, acidity or other chemistry components aren't important to raising and keeping most aquarium fish. They simply need their water to be nitrogen free.

Old

No they were from a breeder, but I've had them for a while. I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I only discovered the problems with my water when it caused a ph crash about a month ago (because of low kh) which in turn killed the cycle on that tank, which then caused a nitrite spike that wrecked havoc on the betta that was in the tank. I am at the end of a cycle for a 40 gallon breeder that will be housing expensive goldfish.. so I had to learn what to do about the low KH situation.