My Cichlids keep flashing no sign of disease.... HELP

[Advorak11]

some background on my tank I have 13 fish in my 40 gallon breeder and I have 2 morri dolphin haps that will rub on stuff in the tank way to much but I don’t see any sign of parasites and they all really rub but just not as frequently as the two dolphin haps.... not sure if I should treat with general cure or ich x but I did notice that some of my fish spit out there food and they shake there head after they flash so maybe fluke?
Salt is floating around that’s what the white is
One has a black chin but they look fine other than that
Link to video of the flash

 

[Tony M]

How are your nitrates?

 

[Advorak11]

How are your nitrates?

Very low when I do a water change it’s prob 10-20 im not sure I’m fully cycled yet because nitrates aren’t in the 40’s ever tanks been running for 2 full months now

 

[Tony M]

If your Ammonia and nitrites are zero and your showing 10/20 nitrates before a water change that’s great and would indicate that your cycled.

Is your ammonia and nitrites at zero?

 

[Advorak11]

If your Ammonia and nitrites are zero and your showing 10/20 nitrates before a water change that’s great and would indicate that your cycled.

Is your ammonia and nitrites at zero?

Looks Like I have some nitrite in there which is weird I’m not sure why i notice after a water change I have zero but as the week goes on I get more but I’m not over feeding I only feed once a day. It’s not that dark I would say in between 0-.25.

 

[Tony M]

Ammonia and nitrite have to be at zero with some level of nitrates. Your weekly water change should keep nitrates down around 5/10ppm. If you’re showing nitrites, you’re not cycled.

 

[BigBeardDaHuZi]

Agree with Tony M . If you are reading nitrites, you are probably not fully cycled yet - which could cause the fish to flash. You will probably need to do water changes more frequently until your tank has leveled out. You might want to treat the water with Prime, too, until your tank balances. Prime will lock up the ammonia in a form that is not harmful to your fish, but is still available to your bacteria.

What is your pH and hardness? If the water is too soft, they might flash too.

Do you have a bigger tank to move them to later? Most peacocks need at least a 75 and the haps, like your moori, will need a bigger tank to move around in. They can get to be 10 inches when they are adults. A 125 or bigger is usually suggested.

 

[Advorak11]

Agree with Tony M . If you are reading nitrites, you are probably not fully cycled yet - which could cause the fish to flash. You will probably need to do water changes more frequently until your tank has leveled out. You might want to treat the water with Prime, too, until your tank balances. Prime will lock up the ammonia in a form that is not harmful to your fish, but is still available to your bacteria.

What is your pH and hardness? If the water is too soft, they might flash too.

Do you have a bigger tank to move them to later? Most peacocks need at least a 75 and the haps, like your moori, will need a bigger tank to move around in. They can get to be 10 inches when they are adults. A 125 or bigger is usually suggested.

I will be upgrading at some point in the future just didn’t have any room for anything bigger than a 40 right now but I don’t have anything to test how hard or soft my water is I have api master test kit my ph is around 7.6-7.8 I’m adding buffer in there to raise it a little.

 

[Orion0220]

Aragonite sand, was one of the best things I ever did for my Africans. they're clearly happier since I switched from gravel to aragonite. My only problem is its very small grain and light (weight wise) but if you look at videos of lake Malawi, that's a lot like the sand in their natural habitat. So it'll do

 

[Advorak11]

Aragonite sand, was one of the best things I ever did for my Africans. they're clearly happier since I switched from gravel to aragonite. My only problem is its very small grain and light (weight wise) but if you look at videos of lake Malawi, that's a lot like the sand in their natural habitat. So it'll do

I would but I’m worried about the cycle it’ll crash and what sand did you go with the live bacteria stuff or just a African cichlid mix

 

[Orion0220]

I would but I’m worried about the cycle it’ll crash and what sand did you go with the live bacteria stuff or just a African cichlid mix

I went with regular aragonite white sand, no bacteria but works for cichlids and marine life. This is the only one they had at my LFS
Amazon.com : Carib Sea ACS00930 Aragamax Sand for Aquarium, 30-Pound : Pet Habitat Sand : Pet Supplies

Also, if your tank is mature, it'll be fine. all the plants (probably fake like mine cause.. cichlids) the glass and especially the filter will have enough of bacteria to keep your cycle going. The filter should have around 50% of your beneficial bacteria, the rest of the tank surfaces will have the rest, yes the substrate is a big part of that but the filter should be able to keep up, it shouldn't crash anything. Worked just fine for me in my 40b grow out tank, never saw any ammonia or nitrite. But if you're worried, you can always do half at a time.

But I'm not an expert, I'm sure there's a cycle guru that knows more, and KG tropicals did a video on changing substrate on YouTube, I did exactly what he did. Turned out just fine.

 

[Advorak11]

I went with regular aragonite white sand, no bacteria but works for cichlids and marine life. This is the only one they had at my LFS
Amazon.com : Carib Sea ACS00930 Aragamax Sand for Aquarium, 30-Pound : Pet Habitat Sand : Pet Supplies

Also, if your tank is mature, it'll be fine. all the plants (probably fake like mine cause.. cichlids) the glass and especially the filter will have enough of bacteria to keep your cycle going. The filter should have around 50% of your beneficial bacteria, the rest of the tank surfaces will have the rest, yes the substrate is a big part of that but the filter should be able to keep up, it shouldn't crash anything. Worked just fine for me in my 40b grow out tank, never saw any ammonia or nitrite. But if you're worried, you can always do half at a time.

But I'm not an expert, I'm sure there's a cycle guru that knows more, and KG tropicals did a video on changing substrate on YouTube, I did exactly what he did. Turned out just fine.

My local store has cichlid mix and it has the right minerals and stuff I might go with that but I took my chemical filtration out of my tank because my one of my fish just got stressed and died for no reason so I’m treating with paracleanse because they weren’t eating and they where acting weird so hopefully the one that’s acting weird will live with the medicine.

 

[Orion0220]

Yup, that would work just fine. And wow, one of the morri dolphins? That's rough, I'm sorry. Any other signs of parasites? long stringy white poop, not eating, hiding more that usual? Paracleanse is good stuff, you're on the right track. I usually do fritz paracleanse, fritz maracyn and aquarium solutions ich x. Hasn't failed me yet. Also like aquarium solutions prazipro as a back up if paracleanse doesn't work.

 

[Advorak11]

Yup, that would work just fine. And wow, one of the morri dolphins? That's rough, I'm sorry. Any other signs of parasites? long stringy white poop, not eating, hiding more that usual? Paracleanse is good stuff, you're on the right track. I usually do fritz paracleanse, fritz maracyn and aquarium solutions ich x. Hasn't failed me yet. Also like aquarium solutions prazipro as a back up if paracleanse doesn't work.

Yes hiding white poop and not eating. I have one of the big fish that I have who just sits behind one of the decorations. So I’m hoping this works

 

[Orion0220]

Yes hiding white poop and not eating. I have one of the big fish that I have who just sits behind one of the decorations. So I’m hoping this works

For sure, it can be frustrating. Just hang I there, yore on the right track

 

[Advorak11]

For sure, it can be frustrating. Just hang I there, yore on the right track

I think I’m going to go get the sand but wait until I’m done with this paracleanse to put it in and what’s the easiest way to get my old substrate out any recommendations....? UPDATE the one that was hiding is out now moving around a little.

 

[Orion0220]

Awesome! Definitely keep medicating for a week or so after symptoms are gone. Just to make sure the parasite is gone, not just building an immunity to the meds. I made that mistake and lost a fish. Also, I just drained some of the water, 50% or so, and took out all my decor. Scooped out all the gravel with a brand new dust pan from the dollar tree or something. Then VERY slowly put the sand in, letting the water cover the sand and lowering it down. It’s hard to explain but there’s a technique to not cloud your water so much. Although it’s hard, and the cloudy water shouldnt hurt your fish. KGtropicals and the king of diy on YouTube have very good videos about changing substrate for more info. You can assays remove your fish but that could stress them out more.

 

[MacZ]

Yup, that would work just fine. And wow, one of the morri dolphins? That's rough, I'm sorry. Any other signs of parasites? long stringy white poop, not eating, hiding more that usual? Paracleanse is good stuff, you're on the right track. I usually do fritz paracleanse, fritz maracyn and aquarium solutions ich x. Hasn't failed me yet. Also like aquarium solutions prazipro as a back up if paracleanse doesn't work.

That many meds... Prazi is absolutely enough and usually covers the most common intestinal parasites.

Anyhow, about the scratching that started this thread, what we did back in the day was putting in some good spoonfuls of salt that usually keeps the itching down.

Speaking of salt, I would take the videos of all the youtubers you name with a grain of salt.

 

[Advorak11]

Awesome! Definitely keep medicating for a week or so after symptoms are gone. Just to make sure the parasite is gone, not just building an immunity to the meds. I made that mistake and lost a fish. Also, I just drained some of the water, 50% or so, and took out all my decor. Scooped out all the gravel with a brand new dust pan from the dollar tree or something. Then VERY slowly put the sand in, letting the water cover the sand and lowering it down. It’s hard to explain but there’s a technique to not cloud your water so much. Although it’s hard, and the cloudy water shouldnt hurt your fish. KGtropicals and the king of diy on YouTube have very good videos about changing substrate for more info. You can assays remove your fish but that could stress them out more.

I went with the super natural stuff it says it doesn’t raise ph but it says it’s good for cichlids so I think I’m going to give it a shot.

 

[NotSoAggressiveAquatics]

Yes hiding white poop and not eating. I have one of the big fish that I have who just sits behind one of the decorations. So I’m hoping this works

These things are actually signs of illness. White poop is usually a sign of parasites. Parasites also cause fish to rub on things and flash. My guess if your dealing with some sort of parasite. Is there anything else not normal happening?

 

[Advorak11]

These things are actually signs of illness. White poop is usually a sign of parasites. Parasites also cause fish to rub on things and flash. My guess if your dealing with some sort of parasite. Is there anything else not normal happening?

There mouths sometimes move rapidly and it looks weird I’m not sure what there doing. It’s not a yawn

 

[Orion0220]

That many meds... Prazi is absolutely enough and usually covers the most common intestinal parasites.

Anyhow, about the scratching that started this thread, what we did back in the day was putting in some good spoonfuls of salt that usually keeps the itching down.

Speaking of salt, I would take the videos of all the youtubers you name with a grain of salt.

Well, I do take it with a grain of salt, but when it comes down to it, the advice they've given has worked for probably thousands of people at this point, including me. Where as treating a possible parasite with a few good spoonfuls salt is only going to hide the symptoms at best. Yes it seems like a lot of medications, but it doesn't hurt your fish or even your bacteria colony if you use the right meds and do it correctly. I'm not the only one that does this, and it works. I did try salt when I first began, but it didn't work, because my fish had a parasite. Not a bacterial infection, in which case it could work. Because the salt basically pulls water out of things, treating salt is trying to raise the salinity to dehydrate the bacteria or fungus before dehydrating your fish. Finally, I said that's for new fish because you don't know what they could have, then obviously treat the right med for the right kind of disease when needed. Maybe I should've specified that but I thought it was obvious.

 

[MacZ]

Well, I do take it with a grain of salt, but when it comes down to it, the advice they've given has worked for probably thousands of people at this point, including me. Where as treating a possible parasite with a few good spoonfuls salt is only going to hide the symptoms at best. Yes it seems like a lot of medications, but it doesn't hurt your fish or even your bacteria colony if you use the right meds and do it correctly. I'm not the only one that does this, and it works. I did try salt when I first began, but it didn't work, because my fish had a parasite. Not a bacterial infection, in which case it could work. Because the salt basically pulls water out of things, treating salt is trying to raise the salinity to dehydrate the bacteria or fungus before dehydrating your fish. Finally, I said that's for new fish because you don't know what they could have, then obviously treat the right med for the right kind of disease when needed. Maybe I should've specified that but I thought it was obvious.

You missunderstood. It's not that I would use salt for anything, quite the opposite, I only used (because nowerdays I don't keep Malawis anymore) it for external parasites, as I said above (against the itching). Everything has it's correct solution, if need be. There are meds that are necessary, no question. There are still a lot of things that can be done before using meds. I have my full decade and a bit more of experience, you don't have to explain it, but thanks to you I don't have to give the "why salt only works for hardwater species"-talk.

I'm against preemtive medication in quarantine, because as a former breeder (of about ten years doing that) I know why Corey uses the cocktail, and that's first and foremost because he has to keep losses down. Many fish only get sick in our home aquaria because retailers are forced to overmedicate, leaving the fish with weak immune systems. Quarantine at home should be med-free until something crops up, so the fish can be treated before being added to the actual display tanks. But the fish need time to acclimate to your water and the spektrum of microorganisms present in your tanks. Quarantine is not about eradication of possible pathogens, it's about identification of possible pathogens and acclimation. The less meds you have to use after purchasing fish the better.
Interestingly you said yourself it's best to not let the pathogens and parasites build up immunity against the meds. Problem is: The longer you use them preemptively the longer the fish are put under strain of the med's side effects. Many go heavy on liver and kidneys, which in case you already got a weakened batch can cost you more fish than not medicating. And while retailers can still live with some losses, because they are sitting at the source, the advice is not good for people that are probably on a budget and have to get through every specimen they bought for good money. I think now you get the problem.

And yes you did not specify and as we as a community have to be clear so beginners don't take things the wrong way.