Lethargic Betta

I don't have any photos right now.

No physical changes. He looks the same. No scratches or marks and there's nothing that he should be able to hurt himself on in the tank. He only has two small silk plants, one large silk plant, a terra-cotta pot (no chips or breaks on that either), and his gravel and sea stones.

He's in a 10G tank (alone) which does have a heater. It's adjustable and it's set to 82 degrees F, which is what me thermometer is reading.
He eats NLS pellets. I also have frozen blood worms that he didn't care at all about the one (and only) time I presented them to him but I may try to give him a bit to see if it helps his energy.

I did the tests and all of the numbers looked fine.
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
NitrAte: 5ppm

While I was up and about near his tank, testing the water, he was swimming around the entire time (asking for food, most likely, as I fasted him today in case he had swim bladder). Now that I've sat back down he's laying around again. He seems to only be swimming when someone is right up next to the tank. Normally he swims around quite a lot.
 

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ask the sitter if she noticed him struggling around the filter at all. he may have been stuck to the intake for a brief period of time.
 

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She didn't notice anything. She only came every other day for an hour or so to feed the fish and cat, get the mail, etc. She did watch him to make sure he wasn't acting really strangely, but other than him laying around, she didn't notice anything.
 
Maybe try putting in another plant or so? My bettas tend to get "bored" so I move everything around a little bit and it seems to cheer them up as they feel it is a new environment so they go exploring the "new" tank.
Otherwise I would definitely try the blood worm and maybe some garlic juice.
What type of betta is he do you know? Some bettas such as halfmoons have a tendency to "hug things" like rocks, plants or even the bottom of the tank, it can be scary (I know from experience) as they look sick or dead. When in fact they are just chilling.

Swim bladder can have longlasting effects upon fish, hopefully it isn't this but it can affect them later in life in such ways as shorter lifespan, ongoing illness or just struggles swimming etc. Keep an eye on him. Maybe try what I suggested above, and let us know how he goes.
 
My boyfriend just took some photos. After he edits them and gets them to me, I'll upload. I'm now concerned that some white blotches on his fins might not be normal. He's had them since we got him but it seems like they might be multiplying. Maybe bacterial infection? But there are no white spots whatsoever on his body. I've seen ich before and it doesn't look at all like that to ME, but again I'm still pretty new. I'll post those photos in a few minutes and hopefully someone can give some insight. Maybe it's the underlying issue with his lethargy.
 
It's definitely possible. Are they little spots or big? Are they fluffy? Or just like markings on his fins?
 

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Not exactly great for seeing the white bits, but you can sort of see it. It appears mostly as a really light purple/white splotches. Not like salt at all... really just.... splotches on his fins.
The bottom photo probably shows it the best.

They're various sizes. Some pretty small, others look like long... "drags" of white. Not puffy, or cotton-like at all. Just marks.

IMG_3927.JPG

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Oh yes, and the cup that he was in said halfmoon double tail. From other HM double tail photos I've seen it seems like he may be. He honestly NEVER has flared at all so it's rare that I see his fins fully flared out. I've never once even seen his beard.
 
Hopefully they're just the coloring, but let's see if anyone else knows what it could be.

He's a beautiful betta! He looks a lot like my crowntail, Cicero.

Cicero flaring.JPG
 
They do look similar, which is quite a compliment because Cicero is gorgeous!
 
Those spots could very well just be colouring spots.
For safety you could treat him with an antibiotic for fish. Such as maracyn 1 &2
 
I just purchased Maracyn 1 & 2. They should be here on Friday and I'll start treatment then.
I was told before that both could be used at the same time, without harming the fish. Is that correct?

Anyways, I'm not sure what's going on, but it's really clear that his fins have become really really bad. I feel terrible. I guess it's such a slow deteriorization that I didn't notice but after looking at some old photos of him (from 9-12 months ago) I realised how terrible his fins are looking!

Compared to the above pictures of him now, THIS is what his fins used to looks like.

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That much fin damage can't be normal... can it?
He ONLY has silk plants. I've never once seen him chasing or biting at his tail. He never goes near the filter intake.

Could it be fin rot? And if so, how slowly does fin rot progress because this was NOT a rapid change. It's been very, very gradual. So much so that, again, I didn't even notice how drastic the change was until I looked at old photos.
 

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Yes it is true that you can use both at once it is generally advised to use both at the same time.

Fins can fade a little and fray at the edges with age as well so it might not be as bad as it looks. However that does look a little significant and maybe upon treatment it should get better. He could also just be at the beginning of fin rot, which would explain how slow it is progressing. I'm unsure.

My two boys are battling finrot as they are in a divided tank and managed to jump into the others side and attack each other.. Not good. So I definitely know how it feels.
 
Thank you for all of your help Vasalissa.

I'm going to start him on the Maracyn treatments later this week. Until then I'm going to try soaking his food in garlic juice. If he is sick hopefully it'll help give him a boost. I tried feeding him a tiny bite of minced garlic, mainly to see if he'd even eat it (picky guy doesn't even like blood worms) and he went for it.

I hope your guys heal quickly!
 
Just a little update.

The Maracyn(s) won't be here until Monday so I haven't started that yet. I've been soaking his food in garlic juice for the last few days though, which he seems to like. I've noticed a bit more swimming around than before, but it's still only when I'm near the tank that he seems to swim at all. Other than that he just lays in several of his new "favorite" bottom spots.

Since I'm still not sure what's going on with him, I just purchased some new silk plants for him. His 10 gal is pretty sparce, especially now that I had to remove his log. As of right now he has one tall silk plant, and two very small ones. He also has a terra cotta pot. I purchased another three silk plants (two medium and one small) as well as a pre-filter sponge. I'm really trying to find out if something is causing his fins to look torn. So hopefully the plants will take away stress and IF he happens to be getting too close to the filter (which I doubt, but it was only $4) the sponge will take care of that.

We also plan to purchase some PVC, silicon sealant, and river pebbles to make him a betta-safe cave. It's cheaper and I can be sure it won't flake paint or tear his fins.

I just miss his smooth pretty fins. Hopefully something will work. I honestly may hold off on the medication until I add his new plants and sponge and see how he's doing, depending on his behavior of course. Hopefully my boyfriend and I can get a bit of spare cash for the tunnel project in the next few weeks.

Anyways, that's the update for now.
 
hey Smurphy90

Too bad about the maracyn however it seems that you have been doing the right thing. I am sure he will enjoy the new plants you have him and the cave sounds like a BRILLIANT idea!

Let me know how the maracyn goes
 
I got my Maracyn 1 & 2 packs today (8 doses of each). I read the directions, and all it said was to dump the packets in. I thought I remembered seeing that you were to remove carbon filters, but it doesn't say that in these directions. Am I wrong? Is that for another medication?

Note: I did JUST find in the instructions that it is okay to leave carbon filters in as long as they are 7+ day old. Has anyone done this?

I'm also on the fence about medicating him at all. On one hand, his fins look so ragged. I honestly don't really notice it getting worse, per say. It's more just that every time I look closely I notice how bad it really looks. The ends of his fins look frayed and curled, and there are big rips just missing in places. It doesn't look like the photos I've seen of tail biting... more like large rips.

Anyways... I was just hoping to get opinions on to medicate or not medicate (maybe just more frequent PWCs?) and also knowledge on how to use Maracyn 1 and 2, specifically if I need to remove the carbon filter. And anything else anyone might think is useful about the medication, as I've never given him anything (except for one dose of bettafix, which I promptly removed after reading negative affects of it.)

I really appreciate anyone's input. He's my first fish since I was little (and knew nothing) and I've really grown to love him so I'm trying to do whatever will be best for him.

Vasalissa, hope your guys are doing better with their fin rot!
 
Hey,
My guys are getting better slowly, much like you I didn't want to medicate so I have just been keeping their water clean and feeding rich foods.

I have heard you need to take out the carbon from the filter, as it does remove chemicals from the water which can make using the medicines quite pointless.

I have never used Maracyn 1 & 2 however. If your feeling a little off about using the medicine maybe do a half dose? and really really watch him to see how it affects him?
 
I'm glad they're getting better, even if it's slow going.

I think I'm going to try the same thing as you. I think I'll attempt 25% or so water changes every other day, continuing to soak his food in garlic juice (I make my own, does anyone know how long this will keep, in a container in the fridge?), and I'll probably whip out some of his frozen blood worms to thaw and try to see if he'll eat them this time, just to give his diet some more protein.

I'd like to put off the meds until after I get his new plants at least. I have a feeling he might just not like his scantly clad home. I'm hoping he'll perk up on his own when he has more "foliage".

One the plus side, I do now have the meds in case I see some sort of decline or a more definitive sense of infection. My gut usually serves me well, and at the moment it's telling me to hold off on medicating and try more natural methods first.
 
Are you keeping fish food in the fridge or home made garlic juice? Garlic juice will last a fair while it generally does! However home made fish food won't keep very long.
Blood worm or frozen brine shrimp will be a pretty good source of protein, added to the garlic juice it should be good.

Lots of plants are great for Betta's as they love variation and things to explore. His attitude should pick up a lot more when there are more plants and things for him to explore.

Always go with your guts in my opinion. Meds should always be a last result at least in my opinion anyway
 
I'm just keeping the homemade garlic juice in the fridge. Then I soak a few of his pellets in it a minute or two before feeding him.
 

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Yeah that sounds good!
I also feed a pea occasionally it isn't necessary especially since your guy isn't constipated but Bettas are prone to it and just to be on the safe side I do feed peas soaked in bloodworm once a week just to make sure that their digestive system is working as it should.

Hopefully your boy recovers. Upload regular pics also so we can compare to the old ones, as well as updates!
 
I got his plants this morning. Gave them a good rinse and put them in his tank. After exploring for a few minutes, he promptly sat his butt down on his new purple sword plant. He's been laying there since. So at the very least, he seems happy to have more plants!

These aren't great (my boyfriend is quite good at getting macro photos) but they give a good idea of how many plants he has now.

All three of the taller plants on the right are new. Before there was quite a bit of empty space.

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Sorry that he's so blurry in the one with his plant but I am not good at macro photography and couldn't get it to focus on him. I wanted to snap a pic of him in his new plant before he moved.
 
He's been enjoying his new plants for the last couple days. He still seems to hang out on the bottom, near his one small plant, but I do catch him swimming around and sleeping in his new ones a fair amount as well.

He also accepted some garlic juice soaked blood worms today for his dinner, so hopefully that will be a nice treat and boost his general health.
 
The tank looks a lot better now with the extra plants!
I'm glad he is enjoying the new plants also. Bettas love to explore and its always good if they have new things around. They also like it when you rearrange their tank as they think its a new environment so go "re-exploring"

Its a good sign that he is eating the blood worms with garlic. It will be a good boost for his immunity

Bettas are great pets. I love all of mine!
 
I'm getting a bit stressed. I know it's too early to tell if the plants will help him, but today I was looking at his fins and they still look bad. His fins aren't shorter.... just really ragged all over. He also has at least one very small hole in his dorsal fin. Maybe the size of the tip of a pen?

I'm really starting to wonder what did it in the first place. I've always tested his water and it is always absolutely fine: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5-10 nitrates (it's usually at 10ppm on the day that I change his water.) I do roughly a 40-60% water change every week, using AquaSafe.

I just can't figure out what would be doing this to his fins.... could it be the gravel? If so, is it okay to the BB to remove the gravel all at once and replace them with smooth pebbles?

I got a pre-filter sponge and put that on his filter today in case it was a case of him getting too close to the filter intake, but I can honestly say I've NEVER seen him near it.

I can't really get any better photos of his fins. He doesn't flare (EVER) so the only way I can even see his fin damage is when he's swimming through the water, and I can't get a good enough picture of it.

I took out his betta hammock today, as it's the ONLY thing (other than possible his gravel) in his tank the is not smooth as a baby's bum, or his silk plants.

I still have the Maracyn 1 & 2. I'm just trying to decide if I want to keep trying to adjust things (maybe up his PWCs to every day for a week or so) or if I want to just give the meds a go.

If what he has is NOT a bacterial issue, will the meds affect him negatively?
 
Hey,
I personally wouldn't take the gravel out all at once and replace it as it could impact your cycle negatively. However maybe doing 1/3 to 1/2 at a time would be okay, I don't think it would be the gravel however I could be wrong. With anything that is sharp just grab some sandpaper and rub the edges down with that before you know it it will be as smooth as a babies bum and safe for your betta.

Some bettas can be known to bite their own tail.. They nip at their tail causing it to fray and look like finrot when it is actually just him biting his tail. I haven't had experience with this so I wouldn't be able to tell you how to solve this.

The medicines shouldn't have any negative effects if it isn't a bacterial issue. However watch him if you decide to use it. If he appears to be having any issue's with it at all... Do a 60% water change.
Honestly if you are worried that it is getting worse, do a dose of the medicine. At this stage anything that could help is useful. Especially if it is only getting worse!
 
I've noticed a little lethargy in my betta that has never been there before. I got some water conditioner for him but won't be able to put it in until Monday. Can you please give me other suggestions?

ammonia-o
nitrite-can't test until Monday
nitrate-same as nitrite

I will be moving him from a bowl to a 5 gallon ASAP
no live plants
started feeding new fish food (he eats it all when I feed him)

he isn't as active as usual
 
If he is in a bowl, there is the exact reason. I don't know if there are any outside issues, but it most likely because of the bowl.
Why is he in a bowl?
 
If he is in a bowl, there is the exact reason. I don't know if there are any outside issues, but it most likely because of the bowl.
Why is he in a bowl?
Why did you get a betta if you weren't able to properly care for it?
Click to expand...

Go easy on her, she made a mistake, so did many of us
 

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If he is in a bowl, there is the exact reason. I don't know if there are any outside issues, but it most likely because of the bowl.
Why is he in a bowl?
Why did you get a betta if you weren't able to properly care for it?
Click to expand...

That's not quite fair, not everyone has a concept of ammonia. When I was a kid, I took some wild fry from a lake and wanted to raise them in a water bottle and feed them bread crumbs.

My mom made me put them back.

Besides, my first betta was in a bowl. Nobody told me, and I did lots of research that didn't inform me. Wasn't something that fell as my fault, probably not something that falls as her fault!
 
Although I do recommend something other than a bowl for your fishy, I don't think the bowl is the problem with your betta's lethargy since you said it hasn't acted like this before.
By the way, I would actually be okay with fish in a bowl as long as it is a small fish and that you are willing to do your daily water changes.
 
I'm sorry.
I'm not trying to be harsh. I just meant that if you've been on the forum and are knowledgable, why would you put him in there.
How soon will you be able to move him?
 
I put him in a bowl before I joined fishlore and I had no idea that they should be in a 5 gallon and now my 5 gallon has more fish and I can't upgrade until the end of the year (Christmas). Why do I have to get so many fish??? I will move my betta into my 5 gallon once I upgrade my community fish tank to a 10g. I really didn't know much about fish when I got mine! (I apologize if this sounds harsh. I wish that computers would make your post have your voice in them!)
 
I do water changes and he's normally not zipping around the tank, but now he doesn't perk up as fast as usual. he's about 2.
 
2 years old? Sorry I don't quite follow.
What do you have in your 5 gal? Bettas can be in community tanks if they're not aggressive, some aren't that aggressive but I think you'll need a bigger tank to fit him in with the others.
 
Don't feel bad, as you already mentioned, you didn't know the betta's requirements before you got him, and you do plan to upgrade.

I do tend to find that fresh, clean water is the best tonic for most fish. If you don't have a filter, you should be aiming for daily partial water changes. As long as the water in his bowl is not toxic, don't sweat it if you miss one very occasionally.

Bettas can and do breathe surface oxygen, remember, so that may not even be the issue. Is the temperature in the bowl a steady temperature or does it fluctuate? He may be a little cold, as they are, of course, tropical fish.

Mikey
 
I put him in a bowl before I joined fishlore and I had no idea that they should be in a 5 gallon and now my 5 gallon has more fish and I can't upgrade until the end of the year (Christmas). Why do I have to get so many fish??? I will move my betta into my 5 gallon once I upgrade my community fish tank to a 10g. I really didn't know much about fish when I got mine! (I apologize if this sounds harsh. I wish that computers would make your post have your voice in them!)
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Okay, thanks for clarifying. I never knew you had a betta. I though you just got one recently.
I wish so too! I didn't mean to be harsh, it was just a misunderstanding.
If you check craigslist, you can find AMAZING deals. That way, you can upgrade to a 20 rather than a 10.
Your friend, The Pigster
(Perhaps in the meantime, you could get a few live plants. Also, how many gallons is the bowl?)
 
Okay, thanks for clarifying. I never knew you had a betta. I though you just got one recently.
I wish so too! I didn't mean to be harsh, it was just a misunderstanding.
If you check craigslist, you can find AMAZING deals. That way, you can upgrade to a 20 rather than a 10.
Your friend, The Pigster
(Perhaps in the meantime, you could get a few live plants. Also, how many gallons is the bowl?)
Click to expand...

I have no idea but I think it's less than one. i'm ashamed

I'm still not old enough to get my own house but Mom said if I can make enough room for a 25 in my room she'll consider one. I will get a few live plants
 

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Don't feel bad, as you already mentioned, you didn't know the betta's requirements before you got him, and you do plan to upgrade.

I do tend to find that fresh, clean water is the best tonic for most fish. If you don't have a filter, you should be aiming for daily partial water changes. As long as the water in his bowl is not toxic, don't sweat it if you miss one very occasionally.

Bettas can and do breathe surface oxygen, remember, so that may not even be the issue. Is the temperature in the bowl a steady temperature or does it fluctuate? He may be a little cold, as they are, of course, tropical fish.

Mikey
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i'll have to check the temperature when I can but i'm on vacation right now. I don't think the water is toxic because I use distilled water to fill the empty part of the bowl. I will put in water conditioner as soon as I get home.
 
Does the bowl have a filter? Does the bowl have a heater?
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I had no idea bettas needed this much maintenance when I got him, so no, but I will get him in an appropriately sized tank with a filter and maybe a heater (I have heard of the heaters malfunctioning and killing the fish) by January.
 
i'll have to check the temperature when I can but i'm on vacation right now. I don't think the water is toxic because I use distilled water to fill the empty part of the bowl. I will put in water conditioner as soon as I get home.
Click to expand...

When I said toxic, I was referring to the levels in your water (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate), not your source of fresh water

Are you using a water conditioner every time you change the water?

Mikey
 
i'll have to check the temperature when I can but i'm on vacation right now. I don't think the water is toxic because I use distilled water to fill the empty part of the bowl. I will put in water conditioner as soon as I get home.
Click to expand...


If there is no filter for the bowl then the water should be changed out at the very least 50% every day. If not, it will become toxic very quickly regardless of the type of water you used. Without a filter there is no way to maintain the nitrogen cycle. No nitrogen cycle means toxic water chemistry.
 
Distilled water will be free of all kinds of nasty trace chemicals, but you'd probably be better off with dechlorinated tap water - trace minerals and content can be very much needed by your fish, and will help the water's pH stay stable. You want to be replacing rather than topping up: evaporation concentrates waste content over time, though the occasional top-up in between is totally fine.

Hehe, yeah, when we say 'toxic' we mean 'full of pee' really. Fish make a lot more waste than you'd expect - I learned this when my own betta's store cup water went into his new tank home and kicked the ammonia up from 0.05 to about 1 almost instantly. :C knowing 0.1 can be hard on them, that scared me.

Make room for that 25 for your community! They'll love it! The former five gallon sounds perfect for your betta too. Plus you can chuck all kinds of junk from your room like I did to make space. It's refreshing. Wishing you good luck.
 
^ right. And if you've used distilled water only for a longer amount of time, this might very well be the reason that your betta is somewhat lethargic.

Unless your tap water is extreme in any way an/or contains ammonia or nitrates, you should use your tap water and treat it with Prime or similar.

However, usually when fish are kept in poor conditions, several factors come into play and add up or intensify each other. Please look into everything mentioned here. And do get him a heater asap unless you live in a tropical climate where even night temperatures never go below 78 degrees.

I love in SoCal, and temperatures over night can already get a but nippy even if it's still toasty warm during the day. Being in constantly fluctuating temperatures (and tiny containers don't keep a stable temperature at all) and being in too cool water can make a betta lethargic as well.
 
Mamajin, I will have it fixed ASAP and will get a filter and probably a heater for the betta

Edmund, I will definetly make room for the 25 and hope I get it for Christmas!

Mikey, I am going to get some spring water with no chlorine but still minerals soon
 
^ right. And if you've used distilled water only for a longer amount of time, this might very well be the reason that your betta is somewhat lethargic.

Unless your tap water is extreme in any way an/or contains ammonia or nitrates, you should use your tap water and treat it with Prime or similar.

However, usually when fish are kept in poor conditions, several factors come into play and add up or intensify each other. Please look into everything mentioned here. And do get him a heater asap unless you live in a tropical climate where even night temperatures never go below 78 degrees.

I love in SoCal, and temperatures over night can already get a but nippy even if it's still toasty warm during the day. Being in constantly fluctuating temperatures (and tiny containers don't keep a stable temperature at all) and being in too cool water can make a betta lethargic as well.
Click to expand...

I'll do that as soon as I can.
 

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