How many water changes can we do in a day ? - Page 2

  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
RayClem said:
During the cycling process, please do not want clean your gravel. The substrate harbors significant portion of your beneficial bacteria. If you clean the gravel you will be removing a beneficial bacteria that your tank needs. Once the tank is well established, it is OK to clean the gravel, but not while the tank is new.

Do you have an undergravel filter? You mentioned a grate under the gravel? If you have an undergravel filter, it is even more important that you do not disturb the gravel this early in the process. You do not see undergravel filters being used much these days, but they are fantastic for maintaining the nitrogen cycle.
Thanks for the advice, will stop cleaning the gravel. Yes I do have a undergravel filter in my tank, they were very popular the last time I had fish.
 

RayClem

Member
Guppy777 said:
Thanks for the advice, will stop cleaning the gravel. Yes I do have a undergravel filter in my tank, they were very popular the last time I had fish.
I have used undergravel filters for decades, They are no longer popular, especially in planted tanks, but the are effective. especially if driven by a powerhead rather than air.
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
Day 15 , another 85% water change. Looking better today
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
Another 85% water change with before and after pictures
 

moogie25

Member
Guppy777 - any improvements on the nitrites? i'm also having this exact issue and with all the changes in the past week, mine has NOT improve much.
 

mattgirl

Member
Guppy777 said:
Another 85% water change with before and after pictures
I will admit. This one has me stumped. Something other than ammonia eating bacteria waste is causing these results. The only other time I ever saw anything like this is when the decor was causing the nitrite readings. This tank is not processing enough ammonia to be producing this much nitrite. Nitrites are, simply put, ammonia eating bacteria poop.
Guppy777 said:
Another 85% water change this morning, got before and after tests of nitrite and nitrates
5 guppies in a 20 gallon tank can't possibly be producing enough ammonia to produce this much nitrite and all the water changes should have your nitrate levels down to almost unreadable levels.

You know your tank better than anyone here can possibly know it. If this was happening to one of my tanks I would be trying different things to try to get to the bottom of what is happening. Maybe you are getting false readings. Maybe something in the tank is leaching something into the water causing these readings. Only you can figure this one out.

The water changes aren't working so it is time to find out why they aren't working even if that means removing one thing at a time.
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
moogie25 said:
Guppy777 - any improvements on the nitrites? i'm also having this exact issue and with all the changes in the past week, mine has NOT improve much.
Yes starting to improve a little , yesterdays result
 

dMog

Member
is there information you are not reporting such as other fish or were you not ever doing weekly partial water changes before...or as mentioned is something else in your tank? the more info you give the better we all can help. Also what is your tap water testing at for nitrate?
 

Islandvic

Member
Is your tank near a window, and how much light during each day does the tank receive ?

Is water clear, or does it look like a bit of milk was dropped in?

Asking because I was curious if you have a bacterial bloom going on in the water column.

Since you are running an UGF, I'm guessing it's powered by air stones and not a powerhead, though I may have missed it if you mentioned it when I skimmed through the thread.

I suggest to consider adding a sponge filter to your tank.

Sponge filters are fantastic at biological filtration. Also, you can pull it out once it's cycled and drop it into a 5 gallon bucket or another small tank for an instantly cycled temporary hospital/ quarantine tank.

if you get one with a coarse foam (Aquarium Co-Op's and the ATI Hydro Max "Pro" are examples) they will flow more water through them and thus be able to offer more mechanical filtration as well. The 2 brands I mentioned above can also be double stacked.

If your current air pump is strong enough, just out a "T" fitting one the line or use a cheap airline manifold to add the extra airline to power the sponge filter.

If you live near a PetSmart, consider picking up a Tetra Whisper 60 model airpump. Their online sale price was $12 as of a few days ago.
Either buy online and pick up at store, or show the cashier the online price on phone and they will price match. They also price match anything from the Chewy website.

The Tetra Whisper 60 air pump has 2x outlets, one can be used for the UGF system and the other for the sponge filter.

Regarding the air pumps, what air pump are you using and does the UGF's uplift tubes use an air stone?

Maybe the airpump is under powered. If your air pump is "rated" or marketed for a 20g tank for example, it may not be providing enough air to properly run the UGF. I dislike when marketing dept's arbitrarily assign a "rated tank size" to their products. They have no idea how the tank is stocked.
 

Flyfisha

Member
Is the filter running all day AND all night?
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
mattgirl said:
I will admit. This one has me stumped. Something other than ammonia eating bacteria waste is causing these results. The only other time I ever saw anything like this is when the decor was causing the nitrite readings. This tank is not processing enough ammonia to be producing this much nitrite. Nitrites are, simply put, ammonia eating bacteria poop.

5 guppies in a 20 gallon tank can't possibly be producing enough ammonia to produce this much nitrite and all the water changes should have your nitrate levels down to almost unreadable levels.

You know your tank better than anyone here can possibly know it. If this was happening to one of my tanks I would be trying different things to try to get to the bottom of what is happening. Maybe you are getting false readings. Maybe something in the tank is leaching something into the water causing these readings. Only you can figure this one out.

The water changes aren't working so it is time to find out why they aren't working even if that means removing one thing at a time.
mattgirl said:
I will admit. This one has me stumped. Something other than ammonia eating bacteria waste is causing these results. The only other time I ever saw anything like this is when the decor was causing the nitrite readings. This tank is not processing enough ammonia to be producing this much nitrite. Nitrites are, simply put, ammonia eating bacteria poop.

5 guppies in a 20 gallon tank can't possibly be producing enough ammonia to produce this much nitrite and all the water changes should have your nitrate levels down to almost unreadable levels.

You know your tank better than anyone here can possibly know it. If this was happening to one of my tanks I would be trying different things to try to get to the bottom of what is happening. Maybe you are getting false readings. Maybe something in the tank is leaching something into the water causing these readings. Only you can figure this one out.

The water changes aren't working so it is time to find out why they aren't working even if that means removing one thing at a time.
Thanks for replying again, have double checked with test strips and believe numbers are correct. Have also stopped cleaning gravel as Raychem suggested and colors are looking better last 2 days. Will give it a few more days before doing something drastic.
dMog said:
is there information you are not reporting such as other fish or were you not ever doing weekly partial water changes before...or as mentioned is something else in your tank? the more info you give the better we all can help. Also what is your tap water testing at for nitrate?
Just set up the tank mid november and thought it was cycled before adding the 5 guppies. My tap water nitrites and nitrates is 0, my ammonia is at .50 ppm
Islandvic said:
Is your tank near a window, and how much light during each day does the tank receive ?

Is water clear, or does it look like a bit of milk was dropped in?

Asking because I was curious if you have a bacterial bloom going on in the water column.

Since you are running an UGF, I'm guessing it's powered by air stones and not a powerhead, though I may have missed it if you mentioned it when I skimmed through the thread.

I suggest to consider adding a sponge filter to your tank.

Sponge filters are fantastic at biological filtration. Also, you can pull it out once it's cycled and drop it into a 5 gallon bucket or another small tank for an instantly cycled temporary hospital/ quarantine tank.

if you get one with a coarse foam (Aquarium Co-Op's and the ATI Hydro Max "Pro" are examples) they will flow more water through them and thus be able to offer more mechanical filtration as well. The 2 brands I mentioned above can also be double stacked.

If your current air pump is strong enough, just out a "T" fitting one the line or use a cheap airline manifold to add the extra airline to power the sponge filter.

If you live near a PetSmart, consider picking up a Tetra Whisper 60 model airpump. Their online sale price was $12 as of a few days ago.
Either buy online and pick up at store, or show the cashier the online price on phone and they will price match. They also price match anything from the Chewy website.

The Tetra Whisper 60 air pump has 2x outlets, one can be used for the UGF system and the other for the sponge filter.

Regarding the air pumps, what air pump are you using and does the UGF's uplift tubes use an air stone?

Maybe the airpump is under powered. If your air pump is "rated" or marketed for a 20g tank for example, it may not be providing enough air to properly run the UGF. I dislike when marketing dept's arbitrarily assign a "rated tank size" to their products. They have no idea how the tank is stocked.
Hi, No my tank is not near any windows and my water is clear. My undergravel filter has airstones. In addition to the UGF have a aqua-tech 150 hang on tank filter that came with the tank. Also got a marineland penguin 150 powerfilter. Have not changed the media since I started. Have a tetra whisper air pump rated for 40 gallon.
Flyfisha said:
Is the filter running all day AND all night?
Yes all 3 of my filters are running 24/7
dMog said:
is there information you are not reporting such as other fish or were you not ever doing weekly partial water changes before...or as mentioned is something else in your tank? the more info you give the better we all can help. Also what is your tap water testing at for nitrate?
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
Before and after of todays change
 

Matt11711

Member
If I had to guess, you had something in your tank that was leeching nitrites and now it's finally running out of them. That's the only thing that makes sense. Glad to see it's improving!
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
Todays results, tested twice to make sure. I wish to thank all that helped me
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
Great test results again today 0 0 10. Been thinking my biggest mistake was to vacuum the gravel. Because I have a undergravel filter most of the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates must have lived in the gravel and not my regular filters. Once we stopped cleaning the gravel in only 5 days we were good to go. This must also mean that the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrites must live in my regular filters because never had an ammonia spike. Comments ?
 

dMog

Member
Your benificial bacteria will be dispesed equally not one in one place and the other in another place... Distubing the substrate might have been the issue though
 

RayClem

Member
dMog said:
Your benificial bacteria will be dispesed equally not one in one place and the other in another place... Distubing the substrate might have been the issue though
There will be bacteria on every surface, but not necessarily dispersed equally. An undergravel filter has a large amount of filter media (the gravel) with a very large surface area. It is like having a canister filter filled with media.
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
RayClem said:
There will be bacteria on every surface, but not necessarily dispersed equally. An undergravel filter has a large amount of filter media (the gravel) with a very large surface area. It is like having a canister filter filled with media.
Any suggestions on the gravel in the future ? Hands off unless I have a problem down the road ?
 

RayClem

Member
Guppy777 said:
Any suggestions on the gravel in the future ? Hands off unless I have a problem down the road ?
There are two options.
1. You can clean part of the gravel periodically when it starts to look dirty. Never clean more than half at the same time.

2. You can try using one of the "sludge removal" products like API Stress Zyme or Seachem Pristine that includes bacteria and enzymes designed to break down organic wastes. If your tank is planted or heavily hardscaped, you might try this route. However, remember that these products will consume waste and produce various byproducts. You may need to do extra water changes to keep the water clean.
 

Islandvic

Member
Here is another "sludge removal" bacteria product like the ones RayClem mentioned.....

Fritz Fritzyme 360 Biological Pond Cleaner

LINK

I've used their other version called Monster 360 Biological Cleaner before when I found the 32oz bottle on sale for $14. I used it on a heavily stocked 55g African tank.
 
  • Thread Starter

Guppy777

Member
Rayclem and Islandvic thanks for the suggestions
 

Orion0220

Member
Glad you figured it out
 

Birdy127

Member
If the levels are not dropping after all those water changes. The problem might be not enough media filter for enough bacteria to grow.
 

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