Goldfish, Possible swim bladder problem. Advice please! **NEW UPDATE**

[Emerald_Rose]

Hey,

Tonight I have noticed that one of my ryukin goldfish (Loki) seems to be swimming quite erratically. He has been spending a lot of time at the surface of the water and gulping for air. There is a large air wand in the tank oxygenating the water so I don't think he should be oxygen deficient (my other ryukin in the same tank seems fine). It seems that he tries to swim down, but when he lets himself, he'll just float back up to the top. And when he does try to swim down he tilts and when I saw him pecking for food at the bottom, he'll even accidentally go over onto his back before he can right himself again. For the most part he is upright, just seems to be spending a lot of time floating at the surface - bobbing quite high out the surface of the water. (One of my friends even made the comment that it looked like he was trying to breach.) He still seems very perky in himself and happily ate his pea tonight.

If anyone has any advice or anything I could try I would be highly grateful. I'm so worried that he is developing a swim bladder issue as I'm not sure how reversible that would be.

As far as water parameters are concerned, these are as follows from tonight: -
Ammonia - 0.1ppm
Nitrite - 0.1ppm
Nitrate - 5ppm
PH - 8.0

Diet: Both fish used to be on flakes but have moved onto Saki-HikarI Fancy Goldfish sinking pellet food within the last week. I also feed them boiled de-shelled peas (2 halves each about once/twice a week), dried blood worms and the occasional bit of broccoli.

I would be so grateful for any advice. I'm new to fish keeping and I'm not sure if I'm just seeing something that isn't actually there, but I'm convinced something isn't quite right with him.

If it matters at all, it also seems like it has only just come on tonight. It's really late here now and so Ill be straight to bed when I've wrote this. Ill see what he is like in the morning and post any major changes I see.

Thank you!

 

[Jaysee]

One of mine used to do that. Sometimes they get blockages and have trouble with the swim bladder. It started happening to the one on a fairly regular basis - the only thing I did different was start feeding a larger 3 mm pellet whole, instead of breaking it up. I stopped feeding them whole pellets and the swimming problems stopped. I don't know why, and don't care

Don't get too concerned yet. It could just be a temporary condition that will correct itself in time.

 

[Emerald_Rose]

Thanks for your reply, Jaysee. He seems a lot better now. I kept him off his food yesterday and he seems to have a lot more control over his swimming than what he did when I got all worried. I'm sure I'll get used to his behaviour and learn what my fish are susceptible to and how to react to it (without panicking so much ^_^).

 

[lilirish]

Try feeding him peas also - -they are a great addition to goldies diets! Boil the pea, pop it out of its shell and break it into a few smaller pieces...they love them and it is a great way to keep them healthy! Mine get a snack of peas once a week

 

[Emerald_Rose]

I do. It's a definite favourite of my goldfish and my bettas like them too! My goldfish like peas so much they practically fight over them! ^.^ I always make sure they get equal amounts though as I know it's really good for their digestive system.

 

[Emerald_Rose]

Hey all.

I just wanted to continue this for a bit more advice. Thought I should put it here rather than start a new thread.

One of my ryukins I find spends a lot of his time at the surface of the tank. This isn't happening as dramatically as it was in the first post. His swimming is not erratic and he is always in control of his swimming, however the amount of time spent at the top of the tank (it tends to be during the evenings after I have come home from work until we go to bed) seems excessive. Our other ryukin, in the same tank, does not spend time floating at the top. Every now and then it seems as though she goes and joins him for a little bit (which is kinda cute) but then leaves him and goes back to swimming all over the tank. Whilst he is at the top, he seems to spend quite a bit of the time, gulping at the surface; which sometimes seems like he is eating the bubbles which float across the top from the bubble wand.

Another point is that whilst he is swimming around, he seems to flash quite a lot, certainly during feeding. He is still eating very well, and always perks up and swims around when I go near the tank to talk to them. He has always been quite a 'floaty fish' and with the amount of time he seems to spend floating has also acquired the nickname 'Mr Floaty-Pants'. The ryukins have shelled pea in their diet and have one day a week without food. He is pooping normally and I have seen no recent signs of air bubbles in it. All water parameters are normal.

Whenever I look up symptoms he seems to be showing, I always come across the diagnosis of flukes, but I've no idea if this really is what he has. Am I right in thinking that it cannot be seen with the naked eye? Should I be worried for him? I have never kept goldfish before, and with having two, it is very obvious how much time he simply spends floating aimlessly at the surface of the water. Sorry for bringing this up again, it just doesn't seem right to me, and any advice or insight from people who are more experienced than me (Which will be most of you I imagine ^_^) would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[Aquarist]

Good morning,

I have added "Goldfish" into your title and moved your thread from Goldfish to Freshwater Fish Disease section of the forum. Maybe it will help you to receive more responses.

Thanks!

Ken

 

[Makena95'GT]

Back when I had my two goldfish one of them started hanging around the top for a bit, then had the same issue your first one did where he just kept floating and couldn't quite prevent it. This was years ago, ad back then I just figured he was a bit slow in the head and forgot how to swim so I left him. He lived like that for a year until they both passed due to someone putting 15 feeder Goldie's in the tank with my guys, this killing them. I don't think my story will help much, but who knows. I just left my guy there and he seemed fine aside from not being able to stay down under lol


_______________
Makena: My name
'95GT: My 1995 convertible Mustang GT

 

[wisecrackerz]

Goldfish are greedy-guts, it may be that he actually IS trying to eat the bubbles. Another thought is that he's begging. Mine do it whenever they see me. Yet another thought; if you try feeding them via the filter outlet, so that the food is forced below the surface, they will still be able to eat, but they won't be gulping air with their food, which can sometimes cause swim bladder issues. However, I have commets and common, rather than the ornamental goldfish, and I'm sure they're prone to different health concerns, so I'm not sure how much that'll help you.
Can I ask what temperature your tank is? If it is too warm, even with the bubble wand the water may not have enough O2 if your fish has a particularly low affinity heme group in his blood (just a genetic thing that can happen with cold water fish line bred in captivity, nothing you could have caused or prevented).

 

[Emerald_Rose]

Back when I had my two goldfish one of them started hanging around the top for a bit, then had the same issue your first one did where he just kept floating and couldn't quite prevent it. This was years ago, ad back then I just figured he was a bit slow in the head and forgot how to swim so I left him. He lived like that for a year until they both passed due to someone putting 15 feeder Goldie's in the tank with my guys, this killing them. I don't think my story will help much, but who knows. I just left my guy there and he seemed fine aside from not being able to stay down under lol

Aaw sorry to hear about what happened to your fish! That seems like a really unfortunate accident The thing with LokI is that he seems pretty in control of his swimming, so I'm not really sure it is swim bladder issues but potentially something else. He just seems to choose to hang out at the top and gulp at the surface, and spends most of his time doing it. During feeding time and for about an hour afterwards, he is fine swimming around and sucking on the pebbles at the bottom, no problems with his balance or anything.

Goldfish are greedy-guts, it may be that he actually IS trying to eat the bubbles. Another thought is that he's begging. Mine do it whenever they see me. Yet another thought; if you try feeding them via the filter outlet, so that the food is forced below the surface, they will still be able to eat, but they won't be gulping air with their food, which can sometimes cause swim bladder issues. However, I have commets and common, rather than the ornamental goldfish, and I'm sure they're prone to different health concerns, so I'm not sure how much that'll help you.

Haha you're telling me they're greedy! My goldies definitely do love to beg and dance around the front of the tank for me to give them food but this is certainly different. A lot of the time he is floating in the far corner which is facing away from the room, so he's looking towards the wall. Just doesn't seem like beggy behaviour. Once he has finished with his 'Please mommy, more food!' dance, this is where he goes and will spend the rest of the evening.
That's a good idea about the food, because even though they're sinking pellets, they do float a bit to start off with. I've actually started holding my fingers under the water with the pellets between thumb and finger and letting them drop below the surface to try get them used to not going straight to the top and gulping air at the surface as I was concerned over them getting air into their system.

Can I ask what temperature your tank is? If it is too warm, even with the bubble wand the water may not have enough O2 if your fish has a particularly low affinity heme group in his blood (just a genetic thing that can happen with cold water fish line bred in captivity, nothing you could have caused or prevented).

The temperature of the tank is relatively low, it's in the 60's, usually fluctuating between 64 and 68. Unfortunately their tank is by a window, which I know isn't the best place for it, but at the moment it's the only place it can go so it gets the sun and the temperature does go up and down a lot. Is this a problem at all? Might it be that my ryukin, Loki, does have a genetic deficiency which means he needs more O2 in the water?

 

[yukoandk]

It can be a lot of different things—genetics, bacterial, parasitic—most likely in some combination that’s bring this particular fish down. If your other fish are doing well, you can draw a conclusion that this fish somehow is sensitive/susceptible to problems and may continue to exhibit behaviors of concern. That being said, a ‘week’ fish, or a fish with less than a perfect formation—fat-bellied goldfish’s internal organs have higher chance of being compromised, can live a long life under the right care.

*Perform large water changes as to flash out built up toxins in the tank. This will bring the bacteria/parasite populations down if any (but likely some) lowering the chance of re-infestation. Reevaluating your maintenance procedure to suit your goldfish’s load should be a priority to avoid built up of such ‘nasties’ that lowers the fish’s’ immune system.

*Try a different brand of food. I have experiences with certain fish being sensitive to certain food—floaty, air bubbles in poo, etc. I have also seen larger size pellets (3mm) causing problems as mentioned before.

*The temperature is fine, and the Sun is fine for your fish. For a therapeutic purpose, you may try adding a heater and bringing it up to upper 70's or around 25C along with the following suggestion(s).

*If you don’t have plants, consider adding salt. Salt makes osmo-regulations in fish easier, brings up dissolved oxygen, creates an undesirable condition for some bacteria, and at 3ppt (1 table-spoon per gallon) can eradicate several parasites NOT including flukes.

*Flukes are not visible under a naked eye but are common among goldfish. They can fester inside gills, damaging them and interfering with their oxygen intake. For flukes, consider Praziquantel—mild enough to be used as preventive even without a proper diagnose.

*Consider having an anti-bacterial med/food on hand in case of systematic bacterial infections causing the floatiness. I highly recommend Oxolium if available in your area, and I have used Medi-Gold and Metro-Med successfully.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[wisecrackerz]

yukoandk's advice is more relevant than mine if you water is that cold. water that cold is fine for goldies, partially because O2 is so soluble under those conditions, but yukoandk's right about it being a breeding ground for bacteria; raising the temp will decrease the O2 solubility, but can help with bacterial infections, and the salt should help compensate for the O2 (brings it up nicely). since it's not begging, and it's not overheated water, i'd go with the above advice.

 

[Emerald_Rose]

It can be a lot of different things—genetics, bacterial, parasitic—most likely in some combination that’s bring this particular fish down. If your other fish are doing well, you can draw a conclusion that this fish somehow is sensitive/susceptible to problems and may continue to exhibit behaviors of concern. That being said, a ‘week’ fish, or a fish with less than a perfect formation—fat-bellied goldfish’s internal organs have higher chance of being compromised, can live a long life under the right care.

*Perform large water changes as to flash out built up toxins in the tank. This will bring the bacteria/parasite populations down if any (but likely some) lowering the chance of re-infestation. Reevaluating your maintenance procedure to suit your goldfish’s load should be a priority to avoid built up of such ‘nasties’ that lowers the fish’s’ immune system.

*Try a different brand of food. I have experiences with certain fish being sensitive to certain food—floaty, air bubbles in poo, etc. I have also seen larger size pellets (3mm) causing problems as mentioned before.

*The temperature is fine, and the Sun is fine for your fish. For a therapeutic purpose, you may try adding a heater and bringing it up to upper 70's or around 25C along with the following suggestion(s).

*If you don’t have plants, consider adding salt. Salt makes osmo-regulations in fish easier, brings up dissolved oxygen, creates an undesirable condition for some bacteria, and at 3ppt (1 table-spoon per gallon) can eradicate several parasites NOT including flukes.

*Flukes are not visible under a naked eye but are common among goldfish. They can fester inside gills, damaging them and interfering with their oxygen intake. For flukes, consider Praziquantel—mild enough to be used as preventive even without a proper diagnose.

*Consider having an anti-bacterial med/food on hand in case of systematic bacterial infections causing the floatiness. I highly recommend Oxolium if available in your area, and I have used Medi-Gold and Metro-Med successfully.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Thank you, yukoandk! That's some great advice I think I am going to medicate for flukes. If I did, would it be ok to medicate the whole tank, even if my second ryukin doesn't appear to be showing the symptoms seen as you say it is mild and can be used a preventative?

I do tend to use salt, but not on all my water changes, so I think I'll up that and do it all the time and see if it makes a difference.

I have recently changed from Saki-HikarI fancy goldfish food, to New Life Spectrum Goldfish forumla to see if it would make a difference. I also break these 3mm pellets in half to try and aid in digestion.

I also think I am going to put in a heater just to regulate the temperature and keep it at a constant.

I'm really not bothered if I do find that this is just LokI being who he is, as long as you say, he is still able to live out a happy life. I just want to try all the possible ways of helping to sort it out or to find out what it is so I know he isn't in any discomfort. If I find that LokI is just generally a floaty fish due to his genetic make up, it doesn't matter because I'd love him all the same.

My boyfriend has just been sorting some stuff out with his camera so I asked him to snap a quick photo of LokI just so you can see what he is like right now

 

[Emerald_Rose]

Thank you for confirming it, wisecrackerz

 

[yukoandk]

Yea, LokI doesn’t look good at all in this particular photo, I’m sorry to say. Does he have any redness/pinkness or look bloated at all?

Do a large water change daily, 75% or more, measure the salt carefully to keep the concentration steady at 3ppt (1 table spoon or 3 tea spoons per gallon) in the tank for about a week. You can dose the tank with PrazI during this time—dose twice, on day 1 and day 2 after a water change, wait 3 days and dose again on day 6 and day 7. This is because flukes have a life cycle of 4-5 days. You can do 2 more doses again after 3-4 days if you want to be safe.

Water changes, again, besides the obvious clean, fresh, oxgynated water, is to physically reduce the count of pathogens and re-infestations so the fish has a chance to regain strength and its immune system can kick in. Clean the gravel and under ornaments and such where pathogens roam if you have them. Salt is not very effective on internal infections though it can help reduce stress in this case. If he doesn’t show signs of improvement after 3-4 days, you may want to look for an antibiotic that’s labeled for internal/systematic bacterial infections. If he’s eating, anti-bacterial food will help a lot as well. If you do get new medications, evaluate the use of salt accordingly. I don’t know what’s available in your area—the forum at has members from Europe who may be able to help better with this.

 

[Emerald_Rose]

He doesn't, does he? Sorry for taking ages to reply, I've been away and seems he is still being Mr Floaty. I have been trying to find PrazI but it seems really difficult to get a hold of, and if I can find it, it's really expensive. I have found other medication for flukes like something called Sterazin? Ever heard of it? It says it is good for internal parasites, so will this be something worth trying for him? Not sure I've come across any antibacterial food before. Would something like that be ok to feed to both my goldies, even if there is the possibility the other one isn't infected?

Heh, I feel like I'm just asking question after question. I'm going to start on large water changes tomorrow as I've just realised I'm really low on the aquarium salt.

 

[yukoandk]

HI there. I’m a little more worried about the bacterial infection than the flukes right now—he probably has an internal infection that he can’t shake off, and it is a bad news if it becomes chronic and starts damaging his internal organs to the point he’s not able to recover.

Have you been doing water changes and dosing with salt, at what concentration and for how long? Do you see any improvements with him by doing so?

Do you go to a local aquarium store for your fish supplies, or are you able to do online search/shop? Sterazin likely has some form of PrazI in it if it says is for flukes, but again, I simply don’t know. The over-the-counter aquarium medications in England (right?) usually don’t list active ingredients even if I tried to look them up. Do check out some aquarium forums based in your area (or.) Here’s a thread for example, on an antibacterial product called Interpet No.9.

(Not to say this particular forum is good or bad, but to do reserch on meds if you need to medicate your fish.)

 

[yukoandk]

Here’s a thread on with a lists of meds available in UK, if you haven’t seen it already:

Go to page 2 for the descriptions on Interpet No.9. Sounds like Bronopol is the antibiotic in it.