Goldfish Can't Eat

[kalen]

HI there,

My one goldfish doesn't seem to be able to eat anymore. If I compare his mouth to my other goldfish I can see the difference, but I am not sure if he was deformed or had mouth rot. I never noticed his mouth rotting. But he doesn't seem to have lips. Just a bottom jaw that moves up and down. I don't see any sign of infection or fungus.

When I put food in the tank he goes for it but doesn't seem to get much in his mouth. Also I think he is very skinny. His belly gets narrower towards his gills. So the middle section of his body is the skinniest.

Compared to my other goldfish of the same type (black moor) I can see a big difference in body shape.

I have tried to feed him gel food, freeze dried blood worms, flakes, floating pellets, sinking pellets. He seems to go after it all but don't know if he gets much in his belly. Is there any way to feed him? Or some kind of liquid food?

Any help appreciated.

 

[Brainlady]

HI and Welcome.
I looked at your profile and it looks like you have very, very high Nitrates. You started the tank last month, are you sure it is cycled, your readings should reflect 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrites and around 10-20 ppm Nitrates unless your tank is really heavily planted. I have a suspicion that your fish is suffering because of water parameters.
How are you testing the water? I would recommend huge water changes... 50-75% each day until you get on top of the water problem. Your tank is also quite small for these fish.
Do you have any photo's of the fish, that would really help us a lot. Hang in there, others will post.

 

[catsma_97504]

Welcome to Fishlore.

It also appears that your filter is way too small for your tank. It is rated for tanks up to 45L and you have an 88L tank.

Having an uncycled tank that is overstocked and under filtered will lead to health issues and potentially deaths.

I would recommend large water changes daily. Possibly even twice a day. And, pick up a filter that can move at least 900 liters per hour. Goldfish are known as dirty fish due to the high waste they can produce.

 

[kalen]

HI guys, thanks for the responses.

I was testing with test strips. Just got the API Master test kit, my results are

Ammonia = 0ppm, Nitrite = 0.25ppm, Nitrate = 40ppm, and PH = 8.2

My tank is not cycled. I only learnt about the cycle after I got my fish (unfortunately like most people)

And I have heard from everyone that my tank is too small for my fish, however I tend to disagree. My fish are smaller than one inch right now. It will very quickly become too small, but at this stage I think it is large enough. 20 Gallons for 2 inch of fish?? Am I wrong?

I purchased that filter for a 9L tank, and have just bought a Fluval U3. I am now running both the eheim 2006 and fluval U3. Combined that's more than double the water (I mean the filter ratings), which is what I read is needed for goldfish. Its not quite 900 l/h but 650 l/h?

I was doing daily water changes 20%, and stopped to do 20% every couple of days on recomendation of my LPS who also tested my water.

The high nitrate is my tap water, I am not aware of anything I can do to fix it? I have put JBL FiltaxNitratEX in my filter which removes Nitrate.

I have also been adding Nutrafin Cycle to help the cycling process.

My tank has 5 plants, so its not heavily planted but there is quite a bit.

I have attached some photos, the sick fish (seen at the top of the tank) is also the fish in the second . When he is fed he looks happy.

Based on this info, do you have any more recommendations? Or still just change the water daily?

 

[catsma_97504]

Throw away the Cycle product. It does not work as its bacteria will drown, plus it out competes the aquatic bacteria that can stabilize your tank.

I know it is hard to believe, but your fish produce a ton of waste. Don't let their size fool you.

The best thing you can do is large daily water changes until your tank cycles, if it can. You still do not have enough filtration, but itis definitely better.

Using your liquid reagents, test your tap please. Do it contain ammonia or nitrite? Exactly how much nitrate is in your tap?

 

[LyndaB]

Did you follow all the instructions you were given in the other thread about the maintenance required and steps to be taken until you cycle this tank?

Is this fish exhibiting the same behavior/symptoms as the first two that died?

 

[kalen]

The fish is not exhibiting the same behaviour. The other too lay on the bottom, didnt move, didnt eat. This one lays at the surface, gets very active when he sees me and trys franticly to get food. If I crush flakes up to tiny bits he can't even get them in his mouth, looking closley at his mouth I notice that it looks like his top lip is inside his mouth. (mouth rot?) It seems to me that he is very hungry but cannot eat. I am doing the water changes and monitoring the water. I no longer vacuum the gravel everyday but syphon water from the middle. I could not get the TTS but was recommended the Cycle in its place. I bought new tests kits. And filled the tank. And bought a larger filter.

So yes I have done everything suggested in the other thread. I could also not get amaquel+ but got FiltaxNitratEX. I went to several pet shops and those were the only products I could get.

The reason that I started a new thread is because I believe the problem is that the fish cannot eat. Whether that is because of bad water conditions or parasites or fungus is what I am trying to establish.

In short the fish has gotten worse. But has not given up. It still really tries to eat. But if you look at the from the top you can see how skinny it looks.

So if you could recommend something else? Or give me a hint on what it could be so I could look into it further.

Tested Tap water and results are Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 40-80ppm (closer to 80)

 

[yukoandk]

HI kalen,

Nice tank and cute moors. Though shorty definitely looks ill. Goldfish sometimes have deformed mouths caused by genetics, injury, bacterial/parasitic infections, etc as fry. Did you notice him having problem eating before? He maybe getting weaker during the stress of new home/uncycled tank because he's not able to eat as well, or it can be the direct result from the stress, ammonia/nitrite poisoning.

I'd recommend daily water changes, 50% or so depending on ammonia/nitrite levels, match the temp closely, until the tank is cycled. If you have a water conditioner such as Prime or Amquel+, it will help detox the ammonia/nitrite for 24 hours. Yes, letting the ammonia/nitrite build up to a certain level per your LFS' suggestion maybe faster to establish the beneficial bacteria to complete the nitrogen cycle. But given your fish's health is already greatly compromised, I'd put priority in giving them cleaner water.

I know there are different opinions on use of salt, but I'd add 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt (and bring up the concentration to 2-3 teaspoons per gallon if the fish do ok) while you have the nitrite reading. Salt helps with nitrite poisoning--it looks like shorty has swollen gills, he's probably having difficulty taking in oxygen--it can permanently damage the gills.

As for nitrate level, I don't think it is the immediate threat at 40-80ppm. Your fish came from the similar local water, right? But in the long run, you will have to work real hard at keeping it from creeping up any higher. And it will build up FAST with big waste producers like goldfish once your tank is cycled. That's one of the reasons a bigger tank and lower bio load is recommended as mentioned already. I've heard of people mixing R/O water or bottled water to dilute the nitrate out of tap, in which case you will also have to watch the levels of other minerals/electrolytes so not to deplete them.

From my experience, black moors are very beautiful and hardy fish. Do concentrate in giving them fresh, clean water for now and give them the chance to recover, rather than trying out all sorts of different products. Hope this helps.

 

[kalen]

yes the fish come from the same area, so they would most likely have come from the same water. I never noticed him having problems eating before, but I'm not sure if I ever really watched for that. I never noticed his mouth getting worse and because of that I believe it was like that when I got him, but I can't be 100% sure.

I did put salt in the tank a while back (aquarium) when one of my fish had a wounded side, he healed up quick and I stopped adding. I now have plants and snails and have heard that the salt will kill both, so I am sceptical to add any.

I have heard of salt baths (removing the fish and bathing for 4 minutes), but heard they can stress already weak fish.

I also feel as though I should try just keep to water changes, because perhaps I have been trying to much. It just worries me that Shorty cannot eat much. And he looks skinny to me, but perhaps his gills are just swollen, like you say?

I will do the daily water changes, and monitor the situation. But if possible can I get more advice on the salt? Is it going to kill my plants and or snails.

And what can I do to help my fish get its food down?

Thank you...

 

[jdhef]

I would be worried about the 80ppm nitrate level. You ideally want nitates under 20ppm and you should never have nitrates over 40ppm or you are likely to see problems with your fish. I give this advice thru personal experiance. My tap water as 10ppm nitrates and if I'm not cafeful, nitrates will creep above 40ppm over the course of several months. And each time they have crept up over 40ppm, my fish ended up with a fungus.

And as you know, with the nitrogen cycle, the more ammonia that goes in (and goldfish are huge ammonia producers) the more nitrate you end up with. So starting with 40ppm in your tap water is going to be uphill climb.

Also, even though you didn't ask...
"Cycle" contains bacteria that converts ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates so you tank behaves as if it were cycled. But sadly the bacteria that "Cycle" provides is land based and will die off in an aquatic environment after a week or so, so you will need to add it weekly for the life of the tank. If you stop adding "Cycle" the bacteria will all die off leaving you with an uncycled tank. And so long as you are using "Cycle" you will never develope the naturally forming, aquatic based bacteria that will self sustain because the bacteria in the "Cycle" is consuming all of the food source (i.e.ammonia and nitrite).

 

[kalen]

Thanks,

While I do appreciate everyone's responses. I am really trying to help my fish, and I have been doing water changes, and I am aware the nitrate is high and have got a product to hopefully reduce it which I use in my tank and on the water I am still too add. The problem is that the fish is not getting better.

My other fish, seems healthy, he tore his fin and it healed in two days. So I am not sure how the water qualtiy could be killing one fish while the other is thriving. That is why I think it must be because he can't eat food.

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to feed a goldfish who can't get food in his mouth?

 

[catsma_97504]

If you stick 10 people in a room and expose them to a virus, only a few will get sick. The same is true with our fish. It is always the weaker ones that get sick first.

I realize you are trying and taking steps to heal your fish, but having toxic levels of nitrate is not helping. You have a sick fish that will be unable to heal without good water conditions. Instead of purchasing products to remove nitrate you need to start using RO/DI water or purchase bottled water. While your second fish may appear healthy, it too is being subjected to the toxins and will eventually become sick. Have you considered live plants? They could help too.

As for eating, try liquid foods or dropping a larger piece of food, even try fresh vegys, right in front of him. You may find something he can eat. If he has mouth rot or a deformity and can no longer eat you may not be able to save him.

 

[djsmiley2k]

What is teh item you are going to add to reduce the nitrate?

Live plants are the best way imo. They'll grow rapidly in high nirate water I'm finding personally... they seem to suck it up.

 

[kalen]

HI guys, yeah I have just added crushed flakes to a bit of tank water I then suck it up with a syringe and give it bit by bit to his mouth, that seems to work.

I can't afford to buy a distiller or RO machine. And have not found that water for sale anywhere nearby. Bottled Water?? I heard it was not good for fish in high amounts? Does it not lack minerals they need and oxygen.

I do have live plants in my tank as stated above, you can see them in the aquarium picture I posted. But at the moment I do not have correct lighting. I am looking for a daylight T5 HO or something similair. I am using a 20 watt T4 3500 Kelvin, which is underwatted and not the right temperature. But the plants are not dying, but perhaps not thriving.

My fish don't like fresh veg. I do feed them a veg gel food though.

 

[catsma_97504]

You are thinking of distilled water. It could be used with tap, but not alone. Or, spring water. You would need to test the ph before using as you want to keep the ph in the same range.

 

[kalen]

ok I'll go buy some bottled water and test the ph and see which brand is closest. Would the most expensive or the cheapest bottled water be better for goldfish?

 

[RogueAgent94]

Welcome to FishLore!


Why are you going to use bottled water for your aquarium? To get the true pH you will need an airstone running in the water for 24hrs.

 

[kalen]

RogueAgent94 Press back to go to page one and you will see the start of this thread. (Its a long story) But basically it was suggested to lower my Nitrates.

 

[gremlin]

Does Shorty try to nibble on any of the plants? You could try growing moss on a rock and put that in for him to nibble on. It might help for Shorty to have food available 24/7. Moss growing on a rock will not decay and add to the ammonia problem like prepared foods, but it will still be a source of food. You could also try a little bit of small floating plants such as duckweed. My goldfish love duckweed, and it seems to be fairly easy for them to suck it in.

 

[kalen]

When I first got plants he would not leave them alone. But I think perhaps the plants where infected with something. He doesn't spend much time around the new plants. But he spends most of his time at the surface last few days. Before that he ways staying at the bottom of the tank, and before that he was fine and active. His funny behaviour started after I stopped adding salt to the tank. I think I am going to try buy an oxygen test kit to see if there is no oxygen or if the fish can breathe it.

Because my filter is so strong almost half of my tank has a strong current, the healthy fish likes to go and swim against the current but shorty stays on the other side, I think he is too weak, he tried when I first got the new filter but got blown around abit too much.

After I feed them he will 'graze' the gravel for about an hour then he goes back to the surface. My other fish also occasionally goes to the surface, but a lot less.

I tell you pin pointing the problems is not easy. But now with a new way to feed shorty (by syringe) perhaps he will get better and in the mean time I will just try make everything as good as possible.

I might also try searching for Tetra Safe Start again this weekend.

Moss on a rock? I have moss growing for my bonsai. Does it need to be directly above an airstone? How long can you leave it in for? I would of thought it would drown. Or is there a water moss?

 

[gremlin]

I'm talking about moss (also called algae) that grows in the water. My goldfish graze on it constantly in my pond.

Since Shorty likes to hang out at the surface, maybe some duckweed for him to graze on might help. Most people consider duckweed a bad thing because it has a tendency to take over. I can't keep it in my pond because my goldies eat it all within a day or two.

 

[yukoandk]

That's good he can eat at least a little. See if you can give him small bites through out the day--hopefully he will regain his strength. If the current from the filter is too strong, try a few different ways to position the outflow; can the outflow be slightly above the water level and still pump water; did it come with optional attachments like spray-bar or elbow-shaped tube; can you stick a piece of sponge or something over the outflow with a rubber band? I think very gentle circulation will be much easier on Shorty.

My plants survived .2% salt concentration in the past, but they were well established in the tank. My nerite snails were fine as well, but I'm not sure about other types of snails. While you have the nitrite reading, I think even .1% (1 teaspoon per gallon) will help Shorty cope with the toxicity, but it's your call. Bath/dip method will probably be too rough for him. I would just try not to disturb him too much other than feedings and water changes.

I'm sticking to my opinion that your nitrate level is not the immediate threat, although it is true some goldfish are more sensitive than others, and 80ppm is probably pushing it. I just think it's more tricky and problematic to tinker with the source water, especially right now with Shorty being so weak. Adding a lot of hardy and fast-growing plants--pond weed types, moss, algae--may help not only as food source as mentioned, but also by sucking up the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in the tank. There are different kinds of aquarium moss (the moss from your bonsaI probably won't do well under water) such as java moss which is popular and easier to find.

I hope Shorty gets better soon, keep up your water changes, good luck,

 

[kalen]

Yes my pump does have attachments, but my tank is set up in a way that the current only flows heavily in just under one half of the tank.

For anybody interested in the products I have mentioned, my latest test show

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite .25ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

So I guess between my live plants and the JBLNitraEx the nitrate has gone down drastically. I have been running my tap water in a separate tank for 24 hours with the JBL and an airstone before adding to my main tank.

I am impressed in this change perhaps the fish will be happier once the nitrite falls to 0ppm. Hopefully it is going to go down and not up.

Shorty is seeming more active now with my syringe feeding and one of my plants has just had a huge burst in size.

Fingers crossed this tank is going in the right direction.

 

[catsma_97504]

That is great news. Now if you can get rid of that last bit of nitrite, you fish and plants will perk up even more. I am impressed with that nitrate product. I may have to do a few studies with it.

 

[yukoandk]

Nice work, good luck to you and your goldies!

 

[Salmon]

I wouldn't reccomend the salt bath thing personally, I tried it, and it was just too rough on one of my fish.. Did more harm then good. :C

 

[kalen]

Yeah the salt bath killed one of my sick fish before. But perhaps adding it to the aquarium in small doses in times of crisis is not such a bad thing.

 

[piloswine]

If this was not posted before, the rule of thumb with goldfish tanks is 20 gallons for the first fish, 10 more for each additional fish
Get a 30 gallon or larger tank if you can, or rehome one goldfish

 

[2let]

Hello all,
This is a last resort for me, I've searched and searched the Internet and found nothing to help me so I'm hoping someone here will have the answers to help me.
I've had a beautiful black telescope goldfish called roach for coming up on a year now, I've never had any problems with him until recently when I noticed he couldn't eat, my other two goldfish are eating fine but sadly roach cannot eat. He will try to eat but it seems as if he can't swallow the food.
The aquarium I have is 60l all tests I've done on the water recently have come back fine apart from slightly high nitrate levels (I realised I was overfeeding recently and I've changed how much I feed them).
I've placed roach in a hospital tank and given him a three day fast and daily epsom salt baths to see if it would help with any problems with bloating to no avail,after this I tried feeding him cooked deshelled peas which he wouldn't take. Once returned to the aquarium I began an internal anti bacterial treatment which has currently been going on for coming up on a week but again no success. He tries extremely hard to eat and I believe he might get the occasional piece of food but I'm not sure. He has also had a couple of stringy white poos which I hear is a sign of internal bacteria? I tried to look in his mouth as it seemed to be a white obstruction but I can't be sure. Any advice on what to do would really be appreciated I want my fish to have the best possible life and I'm scared he will pass away soon if I cannot help him.

 

[ShorKie]

Do you have gravel in your tank or anything that could fit inside his mouth? If so you might have to check inside his mouth and if you see a blockage you will have to pull it out. Don't hold me on this, but I think a LITTLE clove oil puts the fish to sleep, just long enough for you to pull it out. Do don't put to much clove oil in or it will kill him.

 

[2let]

Do you have gravel in your tank or anything that could fit inside his mouth? If so you might have to check inside his mouth and if you see a blockage you will have to pull it out. Don't hold me on this, but I think a LITTLE clove oil puts the fish to sleep, just long enough for you to pull it out. Do don't put to much clove oil in or it will kill him.

I have gravel which could be easily picked up, I'll look into this thanks, I'm just scared of hurting him. Any idea how long he would be OK outside of the tank and would I have to bring him back to consciousness in a way to not stress him out as much?

 

[ShorKie]

I have gravel which could be easily picked up, I'll look into this thanks, I'm just scared of hurting him. Any idea how long he would be OK outside of the tank and would I have to bring him back to consciousness in a way to not stress him out as much?

I think a minute or two would be ok but five minutes would be fine as long as you put some water over him every once and awhile. Goldfish can live hours in a cold area out of water before they die so don't worry about that. Get some stress coat for him, that will help afterwards. He will wake up on his own after the clove oil. Don't put him back in the clove oil after you look in his mouth, put him in a container of tank water till he wakes up.
Look up 'removing rock from goldfish mouth' on YouTube and you should find a video to help you.

 

[jtjgg]

are any of the gravel in the tank small and white? if, not could be a growth/tumor.

i did not use gravel b/c i've heard of goldfish getting small gravel stuck in their mouths. i use 1" river rocks. they can still dig around but not get the rocks into their mouths.

 

[2let]

Hello all,
I posted yesterday regarding my 1 year Blackmore telescope goldfish roach saying he couldn't eat.
I took the advice of some members and knocked roach out with clove oil and had a better look into his throat. There isn't a blockage of stones but it looks like his throat has closed leaving only a small hole maybe only 3mm so it would be possible for him to feed just very difficult as I have pellet food. I've searched around and not found much, I think this could be either a growth or a tumor? If so what would be the best course of action to either help roach out of help him have the best possible life until he would eventually pass.

 

[jtjgg]

how large is the food you feed him?

even my large 12" long comets get small goldfish pellets that are about 1mm in size.

 

[FrillyLily]

well he could eat peas(no skin, crushed) on occasion or flakes, things that are small. If he is suffering, probably best to put him to sleep. imo.

 

[Sc0rPs]

Before you do that, see about changing their diet... stuff that's easier to pass. Such as even pre-soaked flakes and frozen brine shrimp.

However you say you had this one for a year in a 60L? That's half the size that should be for one of them, and despite the BS you hear goldfish will stay smaller in smaller tanks it is not so true. They will keep growing plus the tank is very easy to get spikes, and if this is not some kind of swelling it is his growing internal organs starting to shove each other for space.

So, if it is a swelling you can try the easy step of aquarium salt but you need to get a 120L just for him.

 

[NevermindIgnoreMe]

Before you do that, see about changing their diet... stuff that's easier to pass. Such as even pre-soaked flakes and frozen brine shrimp.

However you say you had this one for a year in a 60L? That's half the size that should be for one of them, and despite the **** you hear goldfish will stay smaller in smaller tanks it is not so true. They will keep growing plus the tank is very easy to get spikes, and if this is not some kind of swelling it is his growing internal organs starting to shove each other for space.

So, if it is a swelling you can try the easy step of aquarium salt but you need to get a 120L just for him.

Agree whole heartedly with the top part.


(For the bottom part, after looking into that matter I'm pretty sure that isn't true. I have not found any relevant sources on that (I've searched best I could), and I've heard much anecdotal evidence that points otherwise, and I've come to the conclusion that stunted growth except in fishes organs is an internet myth. Disclaimer: I DO NOT want to start a debate and I mean all said in the best way possible to promote truth, and I'm not in any way trying to offend or insult you, and you know I agree with a lot of your advice. I'd pm, but I think some people may benefit from this.)

 

[Sc0rPs]

Agree whole heartedly with the top part.


(For the bottom part, after looking into that matter I'm pretty sure that isn't true. I have not found any relevant sources on that (I've searched best I could), and I've heard much anecdotal evidence that points otherwise, and I've come to the conclusion that stunted growth except in fishes organs is an internet myth. Disclaimer: I DO NOT want to start a debate and I mean all said in the best way possible to promote truth, and I'm not in any way trying to offend or insult you, and you know I agree with a lot of your advice. I'd pm, but I think some people may benefit from this.)

Fair enough, it just made sense to me and for the record no personal experience for the organ issue.

 

[NotSoAggressiveAquatics]

If it doesn’t go away soon then it’s probably a tumor/growth. And those are hard on a fish especially if it’s in the throat not allowing it to eat. All I’m saying if I’m the next few days he doesn’t improve at all euthanasia is an option

 

[NevermindIgnoreMe]

If it doesn’t go away soon then it’s probably a tumor/growth. And those are hard on a fish especially if it’s in the throat not allowing it to eat. All I’m saying if I’m the next few days he doesn’t improve at all euthanasia is an option

Definitely have a point there.