Freshawater Tank (60l)

[sto0ka]

Hi,

about 5 years go I bought Black moor goldfish and kept it in 40l tank with internal filter only.

About week ago I upgraded tank to 60l and 250l per hour external filter with sponge/ceramic rings/carbon and zeolite.
Air pump coming in next few days also.

Now today few hours ago I went to pet shop to buy more gravel and came back with bag of gravel and Golden Weather Loach.

Now question is how smart was that? In the store they kept that Loach with other Black moors and Orandas so it should be safe to keep them together.

I noticed that Loach tried to "suck" Moor's fins 2 times, Moor doesn't seem to be stressed about it, he spends most of the time swimming in the middle of the tank.
Should I worry if Loach will actually try to harm my Moor or it's just because they are in the tank only short amount of time together ( 3 hours now)

Just finished feeding them and they were picking pellets from the same spot together without fighting over food

Whats in the tank:
Black Moor - around 5 y old
Golden Weather Loach
6 Moss Balls
Few rocks
Fine Gravel on the bottom
Driftwood
Some ornaments
0.1% Aqualibrium tonic salts
Fluval biological enhancer added when I changed tank week ago

 

[jinjerJOSH22]

Honestly, not very
Weather Loaches will grow to about 12 inches and are social, i've heard they can be bad tank mates for goldfish but I can't for the life of me remember why.

 

[saltwater60]

Ditch the loach it’s way too big for the tank.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

Loaches are social fish, he will be unpredictable unless he is in a group of at least 3. They are schooling fish, and belong in proper schools of 6 or more. But because they grow to 10 inches long, and 2 inches or more in diameter, they are usually kept in groups of 3 or so. These freindly fish may do ok like this, but you need a much larger tank!
the black more by itself needs at least 113 liters, or 30 gallons. They are social fish, and should be with others similar type goldfish. I LOVE loaches too, but it is more important to get your goldfish a friend that he can relate to
2 black moore goldfish need 40 us gallons or more. or 150 Liters
2 black mores and 3 dojo loaches need more like 75 - 90 gallons 280-350 liters.

 

[sto0ka]

Took Loach out last night, he kept on sucking Moor...

I rang shop, and they won't take him back ( I told them that I don't want refund, just to take fish back... but nope), I keep him in small fish bowl now ead:

What to do? Can I teach him somehow that it's not nice to attack other fish... don't have room for second aquarium

Update:
After whole night and most of the day spent in fish bowl I returned him to tank... (kin of hoping that he will appreciate that...)

I started recording straight after..

 

[coralbandit]

Take it back to the LFS and just leave it .
You're not going to continue to do business with someone who treats you like that are you ?
Put it on the counter and walk back out ...

Welcome !

 

[sto0ka]

Put it on the counter and walk back out ...

I'll do that tomorrow

Anyway, is there anything else I could throw into that tank except other goldfish/fancy ?

Few minnows ? Shrimp maybe ? With additional hiding ornament/driftwood

 

[coralbandit]

Let him be alone .Many say MUCH larger tanks are needed for just 1 fancy [30g I think they say now ! ]
He is beautiful and seems very happy to peck around on his own . He really is a good looking moor .
Shame they sold a fish that just does not fit and won't willingly help you .
Everyone makes mistakes normally I would not out someone so quick .
Start out nice like you think they will take it and see how they handle you face to face ..
If they still say no then leave it ,if they come around maybe they can be worked with ?

 

[sto0ka]

That's kind of new shop in town (less than a year) and that was fist time I went there.

I'll try to phone them tomorrow again, if they say no I'll try with my old and trusted pet shop. Old man always have few tanks empty since he keeps only regular and fancy goldies and turtles.

Yeah maybe it's best to leave my Moor alone and let him enjoy his new tank.
Yeah he is a great looking guy now. Thank you

 

[Noroomforshoe]

Give it away with a rehoming fee on craigslist.
the loach is stressed and needs friends of its own kind, and a much larger tank in the long run. In a 75 gallon tank with at least 2 more dojo loaches, he may not bother the goldfish, but there is no way to be sure of that.

Give it away with a rehoming fee on craigslist.
the loach is stressed and needs friends of its own kind, and a much larger tank in the long run. In a 75 gallon tank with at least 2 more dojo loaches, he may not bother the goldfish, but there is no way to be sure of that.

It is not safe for the fish store to add fish from unknown places, an outbreak of disease from your tank could kill thousands of dollars of there fish, the filters in the sections of the store are connected. So if you abandon the fish at the store, it might end up being flushed.

 

[MissNoodle]

Just gonna pop in to say your goldfish has some very beautiful flowy fins! He is the prettiest moor ive seen

 

[sto0ka]

Update:
Went to shop to talk to the guys.
Unfortunately company policy does not allow any fish to be returned. (You can return fish but they will put it down, so it's death sentence)
They advice was to get 3 or more loaches together and than they will behave. Could not do that because of my tank size.

Anyway he gave me for free 3 white cloud Minnows to put into tank and see if Loach will eat them... That would kind of prove that he is a bit aggressive and ease my decision if I want to get rid of him...

5 days later:
No fighting anymore, and Loach and Minnows kind of teamed up together. Black Moor is minding her own business, digging up gravel and re-arranging moss balls around

Always thought Minnows are boring but it's great fun to watch them eating

 

[FinalFins]

Unfortunatly that shop has given you more misinformation.

The minnows will need some extra members. They are shoaling/schooling and need groups of 6+.

So I would personally go with what coralbandit said or accept the worst and let the fish get put down.

 

[sto0ka]

So will adding 3/4 more Minnows solve problem ?

It looks like they are all doing fine for last 5 days.

Not attacking each others, eating together, not avoiding others or hiding

 

[FinalFins]

Unfortunately adding more minnows may add to your problems. Your tank is already overstocked, sorry to say but had to.

 

[sto0ka]

Well yes that was mine thinking also...
Will better filter help in that case ? 500l per hour for example.
And repurposing my existing filter into pre-filter with different sponges for mechanical filtration only and for big one use only good ceramic rings.
I know it's a bit out of box diy kind of thinking but it could work

Or

What if I manage to rehome Loach, can I add 3/4 Minnows ?

 

[FinalFins]

A filter unfortunatly will not help overstocking.

I guess, if you rehome the loach you could add minnows, better than a loach.

But I'm gonna push you to get a bigger home for the moor soon.

 

[sto0ka]

Update:

My old shop took Loach few days ago.

Got 5 more Minnows ( Asked for 3, payed for 3 but when I opened bag at home there was 5 in there..)

Everything seems fine at the moment.

Just need an estimate how overstocked I am now.

60l Tank
1 x Black Moor
8 x White Cloud Mountain Minnow
10 x Moss Ball
1 x Limnophil plant ( split into 2)
1 x Piece of Driftwood
Few small ornaments
Few Rocks
Air Pump
1 x 250lph external filter (Water IN -> coarse/med/fine sponge-> 200 gallon ceramic rings -> Water OUT)
1 x 400lph external filter (Water IN ->Plastic bio balls just to stop heavy muck -> coarse/med/fine sponge -> 500g ceramic rings -> Water OUT)

There is mesh bag with 250g mix of carbon and zeolite mix in the tank just in case, since second 400lph filter is added same day as 5 Minnows (Will take that out today)

Ammonia sticker in tank shows "SAFE"
Water is crystal clear

Planning to do water 30% water change every week, but maybe wait now for 2 weeks before I do that to help new filter a bit to build some bacteria.

Feel free to suggest anything that I'm missing here or that can be done.
I was thinking about taking out half of the ceramic rings from old filter and adding to new one (mixing), but didn't want to disturb my old filter and there is only 200 gallon of them.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

do not wait to do water changes. If your tank/filter is not cycled you need to do more then one 30% water change and gravel vacuuming a week, not less, not when you have fish in the tank. Take have the bio rings are you even still useing the old filter?

as for stocking, Your black more needs at least double the current tank size, and with the new additions, you need at least 150 liters. or 40 us gallons

 

[sto0ka]

Oh tank is cycled, just that new filter needs some bacteria.

Yes I still have old filter running, not sure if I'll remove it. Maybe later in a month time will repurpose it to pre-filter for mechanical filtration only and big one only with thin sponge and fill rest with bio media.