Fish-in cycle - needing help please !

[yesmene]

hi everyone, forgive me as i’m still trying to navigate this site. i want to preface by saying it wasn’t my intention to do a fish-in cycle, i kept asking the petsmart associate questions related to the nitrogen cycle but she reassured me it wasn’t necessary, just run my tank for 24 hours and i was gullible enough to believe her. i did however buy the necessary products to get it going (api test kits aqua safe, conditioner, heater, filter, etc) and made sure to check consistently that the ph, nitrate levels, etc were at the range they’re supposed to be. i only bought a betta & cory fish because i was skeptical. i’m on day 3 and i believe the effects of ammonia are kicking in. my cory is very lethargic, hardly moving at all but my betta has been a trooper so far, acts completely normal. i started by removing 50% of the water and replenishing after fixing the water which brought ammonia levels from 6.0 to 0.25. the issue is, i’m trying to start the cycle while keeping my fish safe, but i don’t know how to. the ammonia keeps rising above 0.5 every few hours and i’m at loss as to whether i keep filtering out a % of water or continue to use prime to detoxify ammonia?? i wanted a few opinions on this to see if anyone had a similar experience or a professional who’s done this before ??

 

[86 ssinit]

Ok fish in means you will need to test daily and change water as needed. Fish produce ammonia as waste. So it needs to be removed. How big is the tank? What type of filter?

Welcome to fishlore!

 

[yesmene]

Ok fish in means you will need to test daily and change water as needed. Fish produce ammonia as waste. So it needs to be removed. How big is the tank? What type of filter?

Welcome to fishlore!

i’ve been testing daily, today was my first time changing out the water when i read the ammonia levels. it’s a 10 gallon & she recommended the aqueon power filter

 

[Fishfur]

i’ve been testing daily, today was my first time changing out the water when i read the ammonia levels. it’s a 10 gallon & she recommended the aqueon power filter

Is it just one Cory catfish? They are very social and do best in groups of their own kind, just fyi.

Hopefully I can set your mind at ease a little where ammonia is concerned but could you post the pH, temperature of the water and the latest result of an ammonia test?

Cycling is very important and excess ammonia can be seriously harmful to fish but there isn’t often a need for concern over ammonia levels in most situations if you understand how ammonia exists in water.

Ammonia has 2 forms in water - NH3 & NH4.

NH3 & NH4 always coexist in a well understood ratio that is governed by pH and water temperature.

Almost all ammonia tests including APIs are ‘total’ ammonia tests that combine both forms and unfortunately, you can’t tell how much of either form there is that way.

That’s important because only NH3 is toxic and dangerous to fish and only when the level of NH3 is at 0.6 ppm or higher. At .5ppm NH3 won’t harm the fish.

NH4 is not toxic to fish.

So a reading on a total ammonia test of 0.5 ppm is below the threshold for danger to fish even if it’s all NH3, which it can never be because of the ratio that exists between NH3 & 4.

There is a handy calculator on a marine site that instantly tells you how much of each form of ammonia exists if you enter the pH, temperature, the result from any total ammonia test. It also asks for salinity but just enter zero for

Free Ammonia Calculator

For an example, if your temperature is 80F, pay is 7.5 and the ammonia test read 5ppm you would actually have only .1023 ppm if NH3 and all the rest of that five parts per million is nontoxic NH4 (aka ammonium).

So no need to panic even though 5ppm of ammonia looks very scary.

The nitrifiers (beneficial bacteria) you want to grow (primarily in the filter media) need ammonia to consume but they don’t care which form it’s in.

Doing more water changes than are necessary to keep the fish safe will slow down the cycle. There’s no need to change it more often than is needed to prevent NH3 from rising higher than .5 ppm in reality, rather than .5 on the ammonia test which is almost all in the nontoxic form NH4.

In truth, we don’t keep fish so much as we keep water and I think it helps to try to get a grasp of some basic water chemistry.

 

[86 ssinit]

Lol and wow fishfur I didn’t know that!!
Ok you’ve got a 10g tank with 2 fish. Change a gallon a day of water and test daily. Ammonia or nitrite are bad for fish. If over 5ppm change 5g.
Yes corys like groups. Unfortunately you’ve got a 10g tank. So get another cory after you see nitrates. That’s it. Should take 2 weeks to a month to cycle the tank. Don’t change the filter media (stuff in filter) for a month. Then rinse it out in old tank water. This keeps the bacteria alive in the filter.

How long has the tank been running? How often do you feed the fish?

 

[yesmene]

Lol and wow fishfur I didn’t know that!!
Ok you’ve got a 10g tank with 2 fish. Change a gallon a day of water and test daily. Ammonia or nitrite are bad for fish. If over 5ppm change 5g.
Yes corys like groups. Unfortunately you’ve got a 10g tank. So get another cory after you see nitrates. That’s it. Should take 2 weeks to a month to cycle the tank. Don’t change the filter media (stuff in filter) for a month. Then rinse it out in old tank water. This keeps the bacteria alive in the filter.

How long has the tank been running? How often do you feed the fish?

Okay, I will do that, thank you! Today makes day 4. I put a small pinch in the morning and evening but i’m not sure if the betta has been eating it. It’s a small portion because I don’t want anything to spike but I’ll monitor today to see if she’s been eating it

Is it just one Cory catfish? They are very social and do best in groups of their own kind, just fyi.

Hopefully I can set your mind at ease a little where ammonia is concerned but could you post the pH, temperature of the water and the latest result of an ammonia test?

Cycling is very important and excess ammonia can be seriously harmful to fish but there isn’t often a need for concern over ammonia levels in most situations if you understand how ammonia exists in water.

Ammonia has 2 forms in water - NH3 & NH4.

NH3 & NH4 always coexist in a well understood ratio that is governed by pH and water temperature.

Almost all ammonia tests including APIs are ‘total’ ammonia tests that combine both forms and unfortunately, you can’t tell how much of either form there is that way.

That’s important because only NH3 is toxic and dangerous to fish and only when the level of NH3 is at 0.6 ppm or higher. At .5ppm NH3 won’t harm the fish.

NH4 is not toxic to fish.

So a reading on a total ammonia test of 0.5 ppm is below the threshold for danger to fish even if it’s all NH3, which it can never be because of the ratio that exists between NH3 & 4.

There is a handy calculator on a marine site that instantly tells you how much of each form of ammonia exists if you enter the pH, temperature, the result from any total ammonia test. It also asks for salinity but just enter zero for

Free Ammonia Calculator

For an example, if your temperature is 80F, pay is 7.5 and the ammonia test read 5ppm you would actually have only .1023 ppm if NH3 and all the rest of that five parts per million is nontoxic NH4 (aka ammonium).

So no need to panic even though 5ppm of ammonia looks very scary.

The nitrifiers (beneficial bacteria) you want to grow (primarily in the filter media) need ammonia to consume but they don’t care which form it’s in.

Doing more water changes than are necessary to keep the fish safe will slow down the cycle. There’s no need to change it more often than is needed to prevent NH3 from rising higher than .5 ppm in reality, rather than .5 on the ammonia test which is almost all in the nontoxic form NH4.

In truth, we don’t keep fish so much as we keep water and I think it helps to try to get a grasp of some basic water chemistry.

Thank you for your response and the chemistry lesson definitely put my mind to ease. This was todays testing strip results, the temperature is reading at 72, pH is 6.8, and ammonia reads 0.25. I did the calculator and it’s reading 0.25 for the combinator and 0.0007 for NH3. So you’re saying I should let it do it’s thing but if it rises above 0. 5 then do a water change? Thank you for your help in advance, the ammonia levels didn’t scare me at first but once they reached above 0.5 I was panicking for the well-being of the fish

 

[Bwood22]

You don't have an ammonia problem at 6.8 PH.
But keep an eye on the nitrite, you don't want any of that. Keep the nitrite diluted with water changes.

I'm curious about the temperature. Is it 72 degrees on purpose? It's fine if it is...but that's a bit on the cool side.

Is the heater preset? Or can you adjust it?
If it's preset then the temperature should be 78 and im concerned that the heater might not be working.

 

[86 ssinit]

Thats kind of strange. .25 after 4 days with a betta and a cory. Oh and I’m meant .5ppm earlier. Can you put up a picture of your tank and test your tap water. You may have ammonia in your tap. Check it for everything and then let the water sit for 24hrs and retest to see if things changes in that time. Ammonia is less harmful below 7ph but at 6.8 it’s still harmful it needs to be a 6-6.2 to neutralize ammonia and at this level your cycle stops.
What type of substrate did you use?

 

[Fishfur]

Okay, I will do that, thank you! Today makes day 4. I put a small pinch in the morning and evening but i’m not sure if the betta has been eating it. It’s a small portion because I don’t want anything to spike but I’ll monitor today to see if she’s been eating it



Thank you for your response and the chemistry lesson definitely put my mind to ease. This was todays testing strip results, the temperature is reading at 72, pH is 6.8, and ammonia reads 0.25. I did the calculator and it’s reading 0.25 for the combinator and 0.0007 for NH3. So you’re saying I should let it do its thing but if it rises above 0. 5 then do a water change? Thank you for your help in advance, the ammonia levels didn’t scare me at first but once they reached above 0.5 I was panicking for the well-being of the fishView attachment 889693

You’re welcome. I would change half the water once a week unless ammonia does get too high and if so, change as needed .

Ammonia gets most of the attention but NO2 is also a big problem, as 88 ssinit said, so if nitrite (NO2) gets to .75ppm or more that’s also reason to change water.

NO2 starts to stress fish out if levels reach .75ppm, becoming seriously toxic if it gets to about 5 ppm at which point it’ll be causing fish to gasp at the surface as if for air because they’re starting to suffocate.

When NO2 crosses the gills it enters the bloodstream and alters haemoglobin into methaemoglobin which can’t bind to oxygen to carry it around the body.

So with NO2 levels that are too high fish suffer stress and eventually, even where water has plenty of oxygen, the fish can end up suffocating.

Fish keepers call this brown blood disease as the blood will lose the normal red colouring it usually has (thanks to haemoglobin) but technically it’s called methaemoglobinaemia which quite a mouthful to say the least.

 

[86 ssinit]

Got to say for me any sign of nitrite I change water. Thing is you’re doing a fish in cycle and for best results change water daily and test daily. If for some reason you can’t go every other day. Sorry but once a week is pushing it. Once the tank is cycled once a week at 50% is fine. Remember this is only 10g so the water can go bad quick.

 

[Fishfur]

Got to say for me any sign of nitrite I change water. Thing is you’re doing a fish in cycle and for best results change water daily and test daily. If for some reason you can’t go every other day. Sorry but once a week is pushing it. Once the tank is cycled once a week at 50% is fine. Remember this is only 10g so the water can go bad quick.

I can’t argue with most of that, but in this case I wouldn’t expect ammonia to ever get high enough to necessitate a water change so it would likely be nitrite that would spur me to change some water but you need to have some nitrite to feed the nitrifiers that eat nitrite.

 

[86 ssinit]

I hear ya! But in the first thread they say the ammonia hit 6. Now we know it’s only been running for 4 days so 6 is pretty big. Something is up. Maybe used an aquasoil as substrate or it’s the tap.

 

[Fishfur]

Tbh, I thought that was a typo. If it really was 6ppm though, it would still be just within the safe margin, at .0535ppm.

 

[86 ssinit]

Tbh, I thought that was a typo. If it really was 6ppm though, it would still be just within the safe margin, at .0535ppm.

I hear ya and the science. But for as long as I’ve been keeping fish .5 on an ammonia test meant change water. 1 or higher was just bad. Seen so many pics here of fish with ammonia burn at 1ppm and other with dying fish that even though you’ve got your science I ain’t buying it.

 

[Fishfur]

I hear ya and the science. But for as long as I’ve been keeping fish .5 on an ammonia test meant change water. 1 or higher was just bad. Seen so many pics here of fish with ammonia burn at 1ppm and other with dying fish that even though you’ve got your science I ain’t buying it.

No worries. I used to do it that way too and wayyyyyy back when I had my very first fish, when nobody knew any of this stuff, the fish still mostly survived without cycling, weekly water changes or anything else we do these days.

I really used to wonder how any of those fish I had so long ago managed to survive and apparently thrive since they lived long lives for the most part. Learning some of the science has shown me how, through I still have unanswered questions about some things.

I will never live long enough to learn all the things I’d really like to know, but I keep learning regardless.

 

[yesmene]

You don't have an ammonia problem at 6.8 PH.
But keep an eye on the nitrite, you don't want any of that. Keep the nitrite diluted with water changes.

I'm curious about the temperature. Is it 72 degrees on purpose? It's fine if it is...but that's a bit on the cool side.

Is the heater preset? Or can you adjust it?
If it's preset then the temperature should be 78 and im concerned that the heater might not be working.

The heater hasn’t been on because it’s been extremely hot in my room, so the temperature rises & fluctuates between 72 and 75. I can definitely have the heater running to ride it higher than that. Nitrate/nitrite hasn’t raised at all, just the ammonia

Thats kind of strange. .25 after 4 days with a betta and a cory. Oh and I’m meant .5ppm earlier. Can you put up a picture of your tank and test your tap water. You may have ammonia in your tap. Check it for everything and then let the water sit for 24hrs and retest to see if things changes in that time. Ammonia is less harmful below 7ph but at 6.8 it’s still harmful it needs to be a 6-6.2 to neutralize ammonia and at this level your cycle stops.
What type of substrate did you use?

here’s my tank, my little babie is in the corner still swimming around after a long day of stressing at work :’) i want to add that on day 2 the ammonia spiked to 6.0, yes 6.0, but after a 50% water change & prime, it went back down to 0.25. this is tonight’s strips, the ammonia is now in the 0.5 zone but no signs of nitrite/nitrate. the tap water reads 0.25 ammonia. the only thing i’ve used to lower ammonia is prime, but i do not have anything to get the pH to where it needs to be, what can i use ? also, is there any reason why my betta is thriving but the cory hasn’t moved much from the same spot since this morning??

 

[Fishfur]

Prime never claimed to lower ammonia per se, it claims that each measured dose is able to covert up to 1ppm of NH3 &/or NO2 and possibly NO3 to a nontoxic form that is never specified and which Seachem will not identify.

More than one independent tester has shown that Prime doesn’t do that and the only known nontoxic form of ammonia in water is NH4. They won’t say it’s NH4 or anything else either.

In any event, whether you choose to rely on Prime or not, with a pH of 6.8 at 72F and a reading of 6ppm on the test, you still couldn’t have had anywhere near enough NH3 to remotely bother the fish.

Specifically, with those data you’d have had only 0.0176ppm of NH3 and all the rest of that 6ppm was NH4.

 

[yesmene]

Prime never claimed to lower ammonia per se, it claims that each measured dose is able to covert up to 1ppm of NH3 &/or NO2 and possibly NO3 to a nontoxic form that is never specified and which Seachem will not identify.

More than one independent tester has shown that Prime doesn’t do that and the only known nontoxic form of ammonia in water is NH4. They won’t say it’s NH4 or anything else either.

In any event, whether you choose to rely on Prime or not, with a pH of 6.8 at 72F and a reading of 6ppm on the test, you still couldn’t have had anywhere near enough NH3 to remotely bother the fish.

Specifically, with those data you’d have had only 0.0176ppm of NH3 and all the rest of that 6ppm was NH4.

you’re telling me information, but you’re not helping me. out of all the products i’ve bought, prime is the only thing i’ve used that improvement ammonia levels without completely killing it. how is it that my ammonia levels went from 6.0 to 0.25 after prime??? even before i did the water change the prime is what lowered that, it didn’t just go away by itself. more than that, the sudden change of demeanor to my cory proves that the levels are way too high. day 1, he’s energetic and exploring. by day 2, he’s gasping for air with little movement. today marks day 4 and although he’s breathing through his gills just fine after an ammonia adjustment, he’s not moving like he should be either. it is going to drive me up a wall if i sit here and let the ammonia levels reach anything but safe

 

[Fishfur]

you’re telling me information, but you’re not helping me. out of all the products i’ve bought, prime is the only thing i’ve used that improvement ammonia levels without completely killing it. how is it that my ammonia levels went from 6.0 to 0.25 after prime??? even before i did the water change the prime is what lowered that, it didn’t just go away by itself. more than that, the sudden change of demeanor to my cory proves that the levels are way too high. day 1, he’s energetic and exploring. by day 2, he’s gasping for air with little movement. today marks day 4 and although he’s breathing through his gills just fine after an ammonia adjustment, he’s not moving like he should be either. it is going to drive me up a wall if i sit here and let the ammonia levels reach anything but safe

I’m sorry you feel that way. I am trying to be helpful.

But anyone here would tell you the same. There is no product that I know of that can make the level of ammonia detected by a total ammonia test drop to a lower level

Prime only claims to make the existing ammonia nontoxic up to a limit of 5 ppm. It doesn’t somehow make the ammonia disappear from the water.

You did say you did a 50% water change when the level was 6ppm.

That would have made the reading drop to about 3 ppm.

If the reading dropped from 6 to .25ppm with a 50% water change and any amount of Prime, then that I cannot explain.

Glad to hear the Cory is feeling better.

I would be interested to know the brand name of the test strips you’re using.

 

[86 ssinit]

True prime just makes ammonia nontoxic. Thing is those test strips may be the problem. Just giving you false readings. Get an api liquid test kit. Just a better kit and as a bonus it makes you feel like a scientist.
Next the cory being new could have a problem already. Stress of new tank just brought it out. What type of cory?
Keep changing water daily 1-5g. Just to be safe till you get the api kit. Check amazon for the kit. Just seems strange. Your readings are all over the place. Even the tap at .25 is off.

 

[Bwood22]

API FRESHWATER MASTER TEST KIT 800-Test Freshwater Aquarium Water Master Test Kit, White, Single, Multi-colored https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255NCI?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_XZ344P2YZP1Y8P4AW2E6