Can a betta die of boredom?

[Nicolademee]

I've had many bettas over my years of keeping but I've noticed something: The bigger the tank, the longer my bettas live; and the better quality of life too. Has anyone else seen this? I currently have a 20 and a 5 with a betta in each. They both get a mirror for a few minutes a day, some bloodworms once a week, pellets every few days, and a water change each week. But while the 20gal betta is thriving with bright colors and excitement 24/7, the 5 betta is sulky and dull. I can switch them and the trend stays the same. I know for a fact it isn't water quality or something affecting their health, but it just seems odd to me. I can have a 20 gallon betta live two years (I typically buy the most depressed, half dead bettas at the store/someone is keeping in a bowl so it explains the shorter lifespans) but a 5 gallon betta only lives a couple months. I've taken to switching my bettas every 2 weeks before the 5 gallon boy gets sad, but I'm just curious is anyone else has similar results. Bigger is better, anyone?

PS. What can I do to improve life in the 5g? Both my tanks are planted and have tankmates. Kuhlis in the 20 and an adf in the 5. I would put shrimps in the 5 to make it more interesting but I'd rather not find my frog choking on them (she absolutely will attempt to eat them as she's not too intelligent...)

 

[YellowGuppy]

Quality of life is an entirely valid element of overall health.

That's why I eat chips.

Seriously, though, it makes sense. Mental stimulation and opportunities for physical activity are important, and not just for humans.

 

[wolfdog01]

The bigger the tank the more room they have to explore, plus more wiggle room with water quality. For the 5 gallon, maybe you could interact with that one a bit more? Idk how fish think but maybe if he can see the 20 gallon he'll get jealous?? Could just be human emotions tho

 

[juniperlea]

Is there anything else in the 20 gallon besides the betta?

 

[rhyan]

I also noticed that with my 2 bettas in a divided tank, passed half way every week days they seem to be less active but once after I do a water change and change the position of their decorations and plants they seem to be more active again. As far as I know they need something to stimulate them and also like what YellowGuppy said.

 

[juniperlea]

Sorry. Saw that they have tankmates. I moved my male from 75 gallon to 10 gallon (alone). He doesn't look happy and gets very excited every time I walk by. But, I'm cycling a 10 gallon for 3 females (already familiar with ea other) and that tank sits directly beside the male's tank. I think the male might like checking out the girls, which might be good (or bad). I had a female w dropsy that I kept in a bowl (while I tried pointlessly to save her), right next to her best girlfriend in the 20 gallon and they recognized each other.

 

[Dewclaw83]

I read somewhere (can’t remember where) that bettas in smaller tanks (the article meant those less than 5 gallons I believe) aren’t able to get enough exercise, which causes them to be depressed, which causes stress, which opens them up to other infections/diseases/issues.

To me, this makes sense. In nature (I know most betta splendens are very far removed from their natural state but still) bettas maintain a territory that is about 3 square feet. Now, 6 inches is the ideal height for males to retrieve eggs that have fallen out of their bubble nests, so if we assume that’s 3 square feet of 6 inch deep water, that comes out to something like 33 gallons (I had my bf do the math a while ago). Not 33 gallons vertically either, but horizontally. That’s a TON of swimming space. To me, that lends the lack-of-exercise theory some credit

 

[EmiliyaCossack]

I had the exact opposite happen with my dragon scale. Moved him from the ten to the twenty and then the fifty five, and he got more and more depressed. I actually moved him to the five two days ago and he's thriving! I think he just wants to be alone, hahaha.

 

[juniperlea]

Wow Dewclaw83, I'm glad someone else saw the article. I couldn't figure out what 3 sq ft of water amounted to, but eventually came up with 33 like you (www conversion - not in my head!). That is a great deal of swimming space. Someone needs to invent interactive toys for bettas!

 

[gizmoaxolotl]

I've had many bettas over my years of keeping but I've noticed something: The bigger the tank, the longer my bettas live; and the better quality of life too. Has anyone else seen this? I currently have a 20 and a 5 with a betta in each. They both get a mirror for a few minutes a day, some bloodworms once a week, pellets every few days, and a water change each week. But while the 20gal betta is thriving with bright colors and excitement 24/7, the 5 betta is sulky and dull. I can switch them and the trend stays the same. I know for a fact it isn't water quality or something affecting their health, but it just seems odd to me. I can have a 20 gallon betta live two years (I typically buy the most depressed, half dead bettas at the store/someone is keeping in a bowl so it explains the shorter lifespans) but a 5 gallon betta only lives a couple months. I've taken to switching my bettas every 2 weeks before the 5 gallon boy gets sad, but I'm just curious is anyone else has similar results. Bigger is better, anyone?

PS. What can I do to improve life in the 5 gallon? Both my tanks are planted and have tankmates. Kuhlis in the 20 and an adf in the 5. I would put shrimps in the 5 to make it more interesting but I'd rather not find my frog choking on them (she absolutely will attempt to eat them as she's not too intelligent...)

yea don’t put shrimps for sure!! I had an ADF in my 36g with a colony of cherry shrimp and she choked & died on my biggest one

 

[Dewclaw83]

Wow Dewclaw83, I'm glad someone else saw the article. I couldn't figure out what 3 sq ft of water amounted to, but eventually came up with 33 like you (www conversion - not in my head!). That is a great deal of swimming space. Someone needs to invent interactive toys for bettas!

Eyyy glad I didn’t make that article up in my head lol
And yeah I could never do that in my head either lol
I’ve heard reports of some bettas pushing their marimos around their tank like a toy. Never observed any of my bettas doing that though (though my one female likes to sleep “under” one lol)

 

[gizmoaxolotl]

Eyyy glad I didn’t make that article up in my head lol
And yeah I could never do that in my head either lol
I’ve heard reports of some bettas pushing their marimos around their tank like a toy. Never observed any of my bettas doing that though (though my one female likes to sleep “under” one lol)

aww two of my females do that too! they’re such curious fish

 

[Dewclaw83]

aww two of my females do that too! they’re such curious fish

Yes they are! I love their personalities! (Getting a little tired of all the problems they have though )

 

[Ebreus]

Huh, now I'm wondering how my grandmother's Betta does with boredom. He was in an inappropriately small container for months and now has a 2.2 gallon & Moss Ball. My grandmother says she's seen him rolling the moss ball around, and rearranging the large fake gems that serve as substrate.
His aquarium sits on her dining room table where she and my Great Uncle spend most of their time when they're home so the Betta, I would assume, has more than normal time with the humans of the house around.

 

[VeiltailKing]

You could get stuff for the boy in the 5 gallon to interact with! One of my current bettas likes when I put a little ping pong ball in the water and he gets to push it around. I’ve also seen people teach them tricks and what not.

 

[juniperlea]

Huh, now I'm wondering how my grandmother's Betta does with boredom. He was in an inappropriately small container for months and now has a 2.2 gallon & Moss Ball. My grandmother says she's seen him rolling the moss ball around, and rearranging the large fake gems that serve as substrate.
His aquarium sits on her dining room table where she and my Great Uncle spend most of their time when they're home so the Betta, I would assume, has more than normal time with the humans of the house around.

LOL! I think your grandmother's got it! Excellent place for a betta - wherever humans eat or cook, which means lots of visual stimulation! My two 10 gallon betta tanks are in the kitchen. I don't cook, but I'm in there constantly. It's my Fitchen!

 

[Dewclaw83]

LOL! I think your grandmother's got it! Excellent place for a betta - wherever humans eat or cook, which means lots of visual stimulation! My two 10 gallon betta tanks are in the kitchen. I don't cook, but I'm in there constantly. It's my Fitchen!

When I take mine to school he’s right next to my desk and loves watching me or following me as best he can as I move about the room

 

[Nicolademee]

Holy wow it's insane how many replies I got so fast On the hamster, mouse, and mantid forums I'm on I'm lucky to get a reply within 24hrs. Glad to see Fishlore is thriving!
I try to interact with the 5 gallon boy a bit but I do have to attend classes every day.
I've attempted toys and such but my bettas never care. I wish I could build toys for them like I do my hamster. Since my frog is super healthy and looks like she's in it for the long run, I can't do tankmates. I would have loved to throw in some microfish or shrimps. I suppose I'll keep up my regime of switching them every few weeks as it works well and the 5 gallon doesn't reach full sadness. I wish I could supply them both with larger tanks but I don't think it's an option. If I'm honest I'd like to get rid of my 5 and only have the 20, but I can't put the frog in there. I could downgrade her to an even smaller tank, or even a heated/filtered bowl, but it doesn't feel ethically correct lol. I'm sure she wouldn't care, she doesn't do much anyways and doesn't utilize her space, but I don't think I'll do that. When I lose a betta I may just leave the 5 for her if I can handle not rescuing another

 

[nobettasinbowls]

Is it at all possible to get another 20 gallon instead of the current 5? I imagine switching back and forth between tanks is a little stressful, and if one fish does get sick, now they both could have it.

Or if not a 20, a 10?

You can find cheap set ups on craigslist, I've discovered.

I agree though, the larger the size tank (I've done everything from 5 gallons to 55 gallons) my bettas have been in (mostly veiltails, some crowntails), the more active and "happy" they seem to be.

10 gallon is really the minimum I'll do now. Even then, after seeing my boy in his 20 gallon long, a 30" tank might become the new standard.

He was in a 1.5 gallon before (rescued) and would just sit there. The moment he was in my tank, he started zipping around fast (not in a panicky way, but in an exploring and flaring at all the new things way)! It made me sad to think that he probably didn't get the chance to swim a decent length for a loooong time.

Do you have ADF's? My ADF's were in a densely planted 10 gallon with no problems (I had them with kuhlI loaches too for a short time, before the I upgraded the loaches) Also, ADF's are social fellows, who like to be kept with other froggies!

They would be perfectly happy in a 20 gallon long! (After watching mine swim so much, I imagine they'd love a 30" length to swim! They would swim back a forth the 24" a lot)

 

[Nicolademee]

When I take mine to school he’s right next to my desk and loves watching me or following me as best he can as I move about the room

Wow, how do you take him to school?

 

[Nicolademee]

Is it at all possible to get another 20 gallon instead of the current 5? I imagine switching back and forth between tanks is a little stressful, and if one fish does get sick, now they both could have it.

Or if not a 20, a 10?

You can find cheap set ups on craigslist, I've discovered.

I agree though, the larger the size tank (I've done everything from 5 gallons to 55 gallons) my bettas have been in (mostly veiltails, some crowntails), the more active and "happy" they seem to be.

10 gallon is really the minimum I'll do now. Even then, after seeing my boy in his 20 gallon long, a 30" tank might become the new standard.

He was in a 1.5 gallon before (rescued) and would just sit there. The moment he was in my tank, he started zipping around fast! It made me sad to think that he probably didn't get the chance to swim a decent length for a loooong time.

Do you have ADF's?

They would be perfectly happy in a 20 gallon long!

I do have an adf, she's in the 5 I'm sure she would do great in a 20, although I am confident she's very happy in current tank. Unlike the betta she doesn't utilize her space at all and is content to sit... I had her in a 10 for awhile and she couldn't care less about the downgrade lol.

I actually would love to upgrade but I don't have the space. I'm thinking I may just stop putting bettas in the 5 after this guy passes. I may give him to a teacher of mine who's looking to set up a 10gal but we'll have to see. I'm not too worried about diseases as I've not been adding anything for a long time. And anyways, I'm not much a stickler for sterilization between tanks anyways So if one has it they all do lol. I'm confident I can fix any outbreaks though Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[nobettasinbowls]

I do have an adf, she's in the 5 I'm sure she would do great in a 20, although I am confident she's very happy in current tank. Unlike the betta she doesn't utilize her space at all and is content to sit... I had her in a 10 for awhile and she couldn't care less about the downgrade lol.

I actually would love to upgrade but I don't have the space. I'm thinking I may just stop putting bettas in the 5 after this guy passes. I may give him to a teacher of mine who's looking to set up a 10gal but we'll have to see. I'm not too worried about diseases as I've not been adding anything for a long time. And anyways, I'm not much a stickler for sterilization between tanks anyways So if one has it they all do lol. I'm confident I can fix any outbreaks though Thanks for the suggestion!

I edited my original post, but you had already commented on it! You are too quick!

Interesting about your ADF, mine (group of 6) were pretty active! I would really recommend adding a froggy friend for her. She might not be as active because she is kept alone.

I understand the lack of space problem though, that is a bummer. Is it a longer 5, or the shorter, taller 5?

I never was either

 

[Nicolademee]

I edited my original post, but you had already commented on it! You are too quick!

Interesting about your ADF, mine (group of 6) were pretty active! I would really recommend adding a froggy friend for her. She might not be as active because she is kept alone.

I understand the lack of space problem though, that is a bummer. Is it a longer 5, or the shorter, taller 5?

I never was either

It's your average 5 I tried other frogs, but for some reason every frog I've had before her has died of mysterious circumstances... The first one supposedly drowned after being caught under a plant, then I got her (Kermese). Then I got 2 males and one immediately kicked the bucket with dropsy- I actually attempted to cure it, or at least delay it, with meds and attempting to suck the fluid out via a needle and anesthetic. I managed to take quite a lot of fluid out but I'm an amateur and caused some internal bleeding so I put him down early- and the other got the same thing a few weeks later. I blame the stock as I bought them all from sad pet stores, although the first death was my fault, and I'm wary to try more. If I find a nice place a may get another few I'll definitely start looking into it again. I think a frog utopia tank would be fun! And I would let her in my 20 but it's a tall and I think it's unfair to make her struggle to the surface against the strong filter in there. Plus there's a bad hair algae problem and I feel like she'd easily drown from getting caught...

 

[nobettasinbowls]

It's your average 5 I tried other frogs, but for some reason every frog I've had before her has died of mysterious circumstances... The first one supposedly drowned after being caught under a plant, then I got her (Kermese). Then I got 2 males and one immediately kicked the bucket with dropsy- I actually attempted to cure it, or at least delay it, with meds and attempting to suck the fluid out via a needle and anesthetic. I managed to take quite a lot of fluid out but I'm an amateur and caused some internal bleeding so I put him down early- and the other got the same thing a few weeks later. I blame the stock as I bought them all from sad pet stores, although the first death was my fault, and I'm wary to try more. If I find a nice place a may get another few I'll definitely start looking into it again. I think a frog utopia tank would be fun! And I would let her in my 20 but it's a tall and I think it's unfair to make her struggle to the surface against the strong filter in there. Plus there's a bad hair algae problem and I feel like she'd easily drown from getting caught...

Oh I thought it was a 20 gallon LONG, not tall. I wouldn't want to put her in an 18" tank either.

You have had terrible luck with froggies! I never experienced any illnesses or diseases with my frogs, they seemed pretty hardy! I must have lucked out!

I don't get fish/frogs from pet stores anymore, only local people (via CL, fish forums, etc) and typically luck out with healthy animals, even if they aren't given perfect care, since they have had them for at least a few months, if not years, without adding anything new to the tank.

 

[Nicolademee]

Oh I thought it was a 20 gallon LONG, not tall. I wouldn't want to put her in an 18" tank either.

You have had terrible luck with froggies! I never experienced any illnesses or diseases with my frogs, they seemed pretty hardy! I must have lucked out!

I don't get fish/frogs from pet stores anymore, only local people (via CL, fish forums, etc) and typically luck out with healthy animals, even if they aren't given perfect care, since they have had them for at least a few months, if not years, without adding anything new to the tank.

Yea lol, I don't want to buy from stores. Golly gosh, I went to the most terrible family pet store a few weeks ago.. Live mice piled high in bins (literally crawling over each other), the saddest bettas and frogs in bowls right next to the door. Some of the bowls were cloudy and some had a literal layer of scum covering the top... With dead fish. Then they had skinny pigs (hairless guinea pigs) right by the cold door with no hide or hay (which is absolutely necessary). And even more stuff, they had birds, also right by the door, in tiny cages, and a huge macaw in a cage the size of a 30g. And, again, reptiles in sad containers. Their prize selling object was purebred puppies for thousands of dollars. It was so sad to see this place continue to keep dead and dying animals and then specifically breed dogs to sell...

Okay BACK ON TOPIC geez what a rant Yea Id love to get adf's locally but I haven't seen any place they'd be available. I'll keep looking though

 

[wolfdog01]

If you are looking to make something for the little 5 gallon guy, I would recommend Polymer clay. I used to use it as decor for my tanks until my oven became too small for what I wanted lol. Once baked and cooled, it should be safe as far as I know. You can make all kinds of things with it and it is very porous so it'll hold a lot of bacteria. You can search around on here and the web if you're a little hesitant. I never found anything that said it was deadly, but things could have changed in a couple of years. I used Sculpy Original, it came in like pound sized bricks. Made hanging logs, tunnels, oddball shapes, etc. You can cut it, sand it, poke holes in it, pretty much do whatever you want.

 

[juniperlea]

I mentioned my guy, Herman, was looking lonely and bored in his new and lonely 10g. Today, I transferred over my three girls to the 10 gallon next to him. He's very happy now and the girls are taking a great deal of interest in him, across the crowded two inches of space! However, in the long run, is this unhealthy for either or both sexes? Anyone know?

 

[mrsP]

Wow Dewclaw83, I'm glad someone else saw the article. I couldn't figure out what 3 sq ft of water amounted to, but eventually came up with 33 like you (www conversion - not in my head!). That is a great deal of swimming space. Someone needs to invent interactive toys for bettas!

Or perhaps different type of tanks for bettas. Perhaps 9 to 10 inches deep (allowing space for media) and 2 x 4.5 feet. That would give them quite ideal space.

 

[Dewclaw83]

Or perhaps different type of tanks for bettas. Perhaps 9 to 10 inches deep (allowing space for media) and 2 x 4.5 feet. That would give them quite ideal space.

I wish there were more long and low tanks, both for bettas and other fish that need a larger footprint. Most tanks are thing and tall, creating more of a two dimensional space, which makes our viewing experience easier/more enjoyable, but isn’t super great for fish.
My, like, dream tank is one of the cube tanks. Something with a larger footprint and a 3 dimensional space, but still enough upper swimming space for those fish that want that. I really hope to get one some day

 

[wolfdog01]

I wanted to get a 30 gal long I saw at my kinda local fish store a while back. Was perfect. Like a 20 long but...longer and kinda shorter. There are also frag tanks, ones made for growing corals, those are real shallow and I think it would be cool to have a betta in there with some grass covering the whole thing. Like a jungle.

 

[Dewclaw83]

I wanted to get a 30 gal long I saw at my kinda local fish store a while back. Was perfect. Like a 20 long but...longer and kinda shorter. There are also frag tanks, ones made for growing corals, those are real shallow and I think it would be cool to have a betta in there with some grass covering the whole thing. Like a jungle.

I’d seen the 30 Kong’s before and thought they were cool... I’d never heard of a drag tank before but they look awesome! I’d definitely try keeping a betta in there!

 

[Nicolademee]

I mentioned my guy, Herman, was looking lonely and bored in his new and lonely 10 gallon. Today, I transferred over my three girls to the 10 gallon next to him. He's very happy now and the girls are taking a great deal of interest in him, across the crowded two inches of space! However, in the long run, is this unhealthy for either or both sexes? Anyone know?

Are they all in the same tank? And are they splendens? If they're splendens I wouldn't recommend them to be together. In some cases it works but eventually the harems tend to fall apart, with either the male bullying or the females bullying him. I'd separate them. If he seems to enjoy their company, maybe put his tank next to theirs? I've heard almost no success stories of male and female Splendens together, so I'd say no.

 

[Nicolademee]

I wanted to get a 30 gal long I saw at my kinda local fish store a while back. Was perfect. Like a 20 long but...longer and kinda shorter. There are also frag tanks, ones made for growing corals, those are real shallow and I think it would be cool to have a betta in there with some grass covering the whole thing. Like a jungle.

Just the of that in my head is making me excited. Imagine actually making a minI rice Paddy, like where they tend to live naturally now? That'd be so cool! You could make it with plants growing out the sides and such. Oh my creativity is flowing!! But... I have no way to do it oh well..

 

[mrsP]

I was just checking pictures of frag tanks, and they look pretty perfect to that shallow but large priscription, I want two! One for male, one for sorority. But guess who doesn't have the space for it. Shigh...

 

[nobettasinbowls]

Yea lol, I don't want to buy from stores. Golly gosh, I went to the most terrible family pet store a few weeks ago.. Live mice piled high in bins (literally crawling over each other), the saddest bettas and frogs in bowls right next to the door. Some of the bowls were cloudy and some had a literal layer of scum covering the top... With dead fish. Then they had skinny pigs (hairless guinea pigs) right by the cold door with no hide or hay (which is absolutely necessary). And even more stuff, they had birds, also right by the door, in tiny cages, and a huge macaw in a cage the size of a 30 gallon. And, again, reptiles in sad containers. Their prize selling object was purebred puppies for thousands of dollars. It was so sad to see this place continue to keep dead and dying animals and then specifically breed dogs to sell...

Okay BACK ON TOPIC geez what a rant Yea Id love to get adf's locally but I haven't seen any place they'd be available. I'll keep looking though

Not to derail, but oh my gosh poor babies! Especially the wheekers! So awful for all the critters! I lived near a similar store (not as bad, but still awful) and they almost left a large aquarium if baby rats outside overnight in really cold weather! Was a complete accident, but thank goodness I was walking my dog and noticed so I could bang on the door and have soneobe bring them in.

Okay, back on topic

 

[juniperlea]

Are they all in the same tank? And are they splendens? If they're splendens I wouldn't recommend them to be together. In some cases it works but eventually the harems tend to fall apart, with either the male bullying or the females bullying him. I'd separate them. If he seems to enjoy their company, maybe put his tank next to theirs? I've heard almost no success stories of male and female Splendens together, so I'd say no.

The male is in his own 10g, and the three females in their own 10g, side by side. The three females have always been together with no issues. I'm watching both tanks very closely as I don't want the male to become stressed because he can't get to the females, and, vice versa! If there are unhealthy signs, I can always block the view between the tanks. I've no idea what kind they are (cheap, ($4 ish!!!)

 

[Ebreus]

The male is in his own 10 gallon, and the three females in their own 10 gallon, side by side. The three females have always been together with no issues. I'm watching both tanks very closely as I don't want the male to become stressed because he can't get to the females, and, vice versa! If there are unhealthy signs, I can always block the view between the tanks. I've no idea what kind they are (cheap, ($4 ish!!!)

If you can get decent photos of them I'm sure someone here will be able to help ID them. I know nothing about the types of Bettas and learned that my Grandmother's is a vailtail from providing a photo when getting help for how to make sure he's got proper conditions.

 

[Dewclaw83]

The male is in his own 10 gallon, and the three females in their own 10 gallon, side by side. The three females have always been together with no issues. I'm watching both tanks very closely as I don't want the male to become stressed because he can't get to the females, and, vice versa! If there are unhealthy signs, I can always block the view between the tanks. I've no idea what kind they are (cheap, ($4 ish!!!)

If you can get decent photos of them I'm sure someone here will be able to help ID them. I know nothing about the types of Bettas and learned that my Grandmother's is a vailtail from providing a photo when getting help for how to make sure he's got proper conditions.

Just be careful talking about “types” of bettas. A lot of people conflate “tail types” and “species” when talking about bettas.

Tail types have mostly only a cosmetic effect. While some may be more prone to fin rot and other problems (such as rosetails), and some may be more active (such as plakats (shorter fins mean less to tug around after them do they tend to require more swimming space)), mostly it’s just down to buyer preferences. A lot of people also confuse colorations with tail types (like “butterfly” isn’t a tail type, it simply means the fish has a gene that gives it a rI'm of white variegation on the fins). However, all of these are usually referring to domestic Betta splendens.

There are other species of bettas, and that’s where care may differ more.

So it’s not so much “ID”ing the fish, but informing as to what the tail type is called (assuming they are all splendens) which has usually very little purpose.

But we’ve derailed the conversation quite a bit now talking about this

 

[Nicolademee]

The male is in his own 10 gallon, and the three females in their own 10 gallon, side by side. The three females have always been together with no issues. I'm watching both tanks very closely as I don't want the male to become stressed because he can't get to the females, and, vice versa! If there are unhealthy signs, I can always block the view between the tanks. I've no idea what kind they are (cheap, ($4 ish!!!)

Oh, awesome I think the stimulation of seeing other fish is good for him.

 

[BettaNgold]

I have 3 in 5G’s and 2 in 10G’s. The only time I had an issue was when I moved one from a 10G to a 20G. He hated it. I think it all depends on. What they start with and are use to.