Black neon tetras randomly dying?

[Paradox110]

Hi there! I recently set up a 15 gallon planted aquarium, and after cycling, added my betta of 1 1/2 years, his nerite snail buddy, and also 12 black neon tetras.

However, over the 2 days since I have gotten them, 8 of the 12 have randomly died. I checked the parameters and they are perfect, 7.0 pH, 78 degrees Fahrenheit, 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate, and just did a water change. Betta is also doing perfectly fine. The tetras are randomly dying one by one, they’re fine the next minute but I saw one die, it’s like it was trying to swim up but couldn’t, and fell to the floor. I quickly smashed it’s head to give a quick and painless death. However, I want to know what is causing this!? Why are they all dying? I’ve read tetras are not very hardy, and will probably get harlequin rasboras if the rest of these die, but I still want to know what the problem is.
Tank specs:
15 gallon rectangular, fully cycled
has a sponge filter and heater
NICREW LED planted light
lots of plants
DIY Co2 system
ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 15
all fish eat when given the chance. The only tankmates are a half moon betta, who I guarantee is not killing them, and a nerite snail, both of which keep to themselves.

 

[zERostArk07]

Hmm, could you post a pic of your setup?

Was the place you got them from reputable?
Are they displaying any symptoms that are indicative? Heavy breathing, lack of energy, bloat, how's there appetite etc.

Were they properly acclimated?

 

[bored411]

Did you quarantine them at all? Are they new fish recently added?

And this might sound odd but I had a similar instance with some serpae tetra. They would swim at an upward angle for a day then pass away the next day. The first sign I saw of something being wrong was a whitish tip to their lips. Are you seeing anything like this with them or their tankmates?

 

[Redshark1]

I would expect the problem to be Columnaris which can overcome the fish when they are stressed by the move to new environments. They may have already been in trouble in the LFS. It can take a while to settle down and you may not be left with many survivors. The only answer I have found is to find a reliable source of fish where they acclimatise and quarantine them well before sale.

 

[bored411]

I would expect the problem to be Columnaris which can overcome the fish when they are stressed by the move to new environments. They may have already been in trouble in the LFS. It can take a while to settle down and you may not be left with many survivors. The only answer I have found is to find a reliable source of fish where they acclimatise and quarantine them well before sale.

That’s the issue I had with my tetra which is why I asked about the white lips. It was the first sign I noticed and that was after losing 3 of them. It took me almost 2 months to get it under control and I lost almost 15 fish in the process (mainly tetra).

 

[Paradox110]

I would expect the problem to be Columnaris which can overcome the fish when they are stressed by the move to new environments. They may have already been in trouble in the LFS. It can take a while to settle down and you may not be left with many survivors. The only answer I have found is to find a reliable source of fish where they acclimatise and quarantine them well before sale.

Yeah, it does actually kind of look like columnaris. They have whitish things in their lips and some white spots on their bodies. Almost all bodies I pulled out had at least one white spot on their body. They were acting fine when we got them and were swimming fine in the tank. It was from PetCo, it’s the only fish store near me. I acclimated them well before adding, but didn’t quarantine, they didn’t have white lips or anything before adding, they were swimming fine. When they die it’s almost like they run out of oxygen, where they just slowly fall to the bottom despite trying to swim up. Solaris, the betta is also acting fine, idk if he’s just immune or something though

Hmm, could you post a pic of your setup?

Was the place you got them from reputable?
Are they displaying any symptoms that are indicative? Heavy breathing, lack of energy, bloat, how's there appetite etc.

Were they properly acclimated?

It’s currently still dark in my area, and I have to go to school, however in about 5 hours I’ll be able to post a picture, otherwise it will look really grainy.

I got them from PetCo, the tank looked clean enough and they were all swimming fine. They do not show any bad symptoms before they start to fall, one minute they are fine, but the next they are not. They were properly acclimated, over the course of 30 minutes I slowly added multiple small doses of the 15 gallon water to their bag.

 

[Paradox110]

Hmm, could you post a pic of your setup?

Was the place you got them from reputable?
Are they displaying any symptoms that are indicative? Heavy breathing, lack of energy, bloat, how's there appetite etc.

Were they properly acclimated?

This is what the tank looks like. It has a lot of algae, but is otherwise healthy.

 

[bored411]

If it's columnaris you need to start treating right away. Lower your temperature to the lowest your fish can handle (this slows it down). I think betta can handle temps of 75F so drop it down to there. What worked best for me was kanaplex and salt treatment. Follow the instructions on those and hope it doesn't get worse. And as strange as this might sound, try to interact with your tank as little as possible. Stress makes it worse so it's better to treat the tank as a whole instead of trying to catch fish for salt baths.

I lost 15+ fish because I didn't quarantine some serpae tetra from petsmart for long enough. It spreads quickly and kills quickly (tetra especially, though I lost 3 platy as well), and it took me almost 2 months to feel safe enough to stop treatments.

If you have a spare tank I would move your betta as long as it's not showing symptoms, but monitor it just in case.

 

[Zer0Fame]

Might it also be that they're stressed because there is a huge predator right around the corner?
With stress being basically the #1 trigger for Columnaris?

I'd add some floating plants and some tannins asap.

 

[Paradox110]

If it's columnaris you need to start treating right away. Lower your temperature to the lowest your fish can handle (this slows it down). I think betta can handle temps of 75F so drop it down to there. What worked best for me was kanaplex and salt treatment. Follow the instructions on those and hope it doesn't get worse. And as strange as this might sound, try to interact with your tank as little as possible. Stress makes it worse so it's better to treat the tank as a whole instead of trying to catch fish for salt baths.

I lost 15+ fish because I didn't quarantine some serpae tetra from petsmart for long enough. It spreads quickly and kills quickly (tetra especially, though I lost 3 platy as well), and it took me almost 2 months to feel safe enough to stop treatments.

If you have a spare tank I would move your betta as long as it's not showing symptoms, but monitor it just in case.

I don’t have a spare tank, so I don’t know if I can add kanaplex to the main tank, but I will turn down the temp and add aquarium salt. I also clean out the brown hair algae, I’ll stop doing that to reduce stress.

Might it also be that they're stressed because there is a huge predator right around the corner?
With stress being basically the #1 trigger for Columnaris?

I'd add some floating plants and some tannins asap.

I really don’t think it’s the betta, he never tries to attack them, and he’s not really that big. I have driftwood that releases some tannins, and also Indian almond leaves, but I don’t have any floating plants.

 

[bored411]

I don’t have a spare tank, so I don’t know if I can add kanaplex to the main tank, but I will turn down the temp and add aquarium salt. I also clean out the brown hair algae, I’ll stop doing that to reduce stress.

I really don’t think it’s the betta, he never tries to attack them, and he’s not really that big. I have driftwood that releases some tannins, and also Indian almond leaves, but I don’t have any floating plants.

You can add kanaplex to your main tank. I did it in my 60-gallon planted tank because by the time I understood what was wrong, I just had to assume all my fish had been exposed to it. It was only after a month that I separated those that were showing the white lips to another tank because the rest were all fine.

And I dosed quite a lot of things to try and help (milafix, pimafix, paraguard, fungal tablets, kanaplex, salt, and indian almond leaves). All my plants are fine and all other fish and snails are okay. I would double-check that your betta can be treated with kanaplex but you should be okay.

 

[aquanata]

I think you've gotten good advice on treating for columnaris already. Just fyi - I do treat betta with kanaplex when I think it's necessary & it's available - without detectable negative effect.

Just curious if you have considered using clove oil for euthanizing rather than a blow to the head?

Good luck treating your tank. Not an easy disease to successfully treat in my experience. Sorry it happened to you.

 

[Redshark1]

While white spots on the skin and lips are indicator symptoms of Columnaris its the damage to gills and muscle tissue inside the fish that prove fatal. The muscle turns white hence the term Saddleback Disease.

I have not seen any documented successful treatments to give me hope but the aquaculture industry apparently uses Oxytetracycline in the food.

I've just waited in the hope that my husbandry skills provide a suitable environment for early stages to be overcome by the immune system.