Betta is acting lethargic

[Das96]

Hi, I have a betta in a cycled 2.5 minibow tank. He is lethargic, He will swim around for a few minutes but then stay in his cave or a silk plant for a good 10 minutes. The tank is heated to 78 F, the temperature doesn't fluctuate (I have a noe-therm 25w heater) and a thermometer. I change 20% water three times a week, and I have a turkey baster to suck out uneaten food and waste. My room is bright so he saw his own reflection in the tank, I darkened the room. However I don't think his reflection is stressing him out because even in a dI'm room where he can't see his reflection, he is still lethargic (Although it is possible he could be seeing his reflection, I can't say with 100% what he sees). I found a way to lessen the flow of the filter, because those filters are often way to strong. It gives enough current to let water flow over cycled media, but not enough to make a big current in the tank. He'll swim around a little more in the morning, and will eat readily. He doesn't have stress strips nor does he have clapped fin. However I know that betta's natural behavior is not to sit around for long periods at a time and then briefly swim around. There is 0ppm NH3, 0ppm NO2, and 10 ppm NO3. He is a half moon tale, so I expect him to rest more then smaller fined betta, but still I don't think he be so exhausted after 2-5 minutes of swimming. I got him about a week ago, so maybe he is still adjusting to his new home, but I don't want to be an irresponsible owner and assume everything is fine. My problem is I can think fo several reason why he is lethargic, but can't tell one way or the other which (if any) is the problem. Thanks

Update:
He actually seems to be a bit more active now, but he still doesn't seem as energetic as I think he is supposed to (I'm new to the hobby, so I only know descriptions from research on how these fish behave).

 

[el337]

He might still be getting adjusted to his new home. Perhaps you can post a pic of his setup to see if we can suggest anything else?

 

[Call Me Roxy]

Maybe raise the temp of your tank a bit. My Betta isn't a big swimmer either. He rests a lot but that's just him. He does like his water warmer tho! Are you feeding him a varied diet? They don't like to eat just one food! Good luck!

 

[DAB56]

Hi, I have a betta in a cycled 2.5 minibow tank. He is lethargic, He will swim around for a few minutes but then stay in his cave or a silk plant for a good 10 minutes. The tank is heated to 78 F, the temperature doesn't fluctuate (I have a noe-therm 25w heater) and a thermometer. I change 20% water three times a week, and I have a turkey baster to suck out uneaten food and waste. My room is bright so he saw his own reflection in the tank, I darkened the room. However I don't think his reflection is stressing him out because even in a dI'm room where he can't see his reflection, he is still lethargic (Although it is possible he could be seeing his reflection, I can't say with 100% what he sees). I found a way to lessen the flow of the filter, because those filters are often way to strong. It gives enough current to let water flow over cycled media, but not enough to make a big current in the tank. He'll swim around a little more in the morning, and will eat readily. He doesn't have stress strips nor does he have clapped fin. However I know that betta's natural behavior is not to sit around for long periods at a time and then briefly swim around. There is 0ppm NH3, 0ppm NO2, and 10 ppm NO3. He is a half moon tale, so I expect him to rest more then smaller fined betta, but still I don't think he be so exhausted after 2-5 minutes of swimming. I got him about a week ago, so maybe he is still adjusting to his new home, but I don't want to be an irresponsible owner and assume everything is fine. My problem is I can think fo several reason why he is lethargic, but can't tell one way or the other which (if any) is the problem. Thanks

Update:
He actually seems to be a bit more active now, but he still doesn't seem as energetic as I think he is supposed to (I'm new to the hobby, so I only know descriptions from research on how these fish behave).

I would like to stay on the same path as to Call Me Roxy post about the food. Do you feed him many pellets and do you soak the pellets for at least 5 minutes before placing them in his tank. Pellets and all dried foods contain lots of air and if not soaked where it can expand and expel the air/gas by the water it is soaking in, the pellet will expand and expel the air/gas in the water inside the Betta as it does in all fish. This causes constipation and can also cause swim bladder problems over time.

 

[Das96]

HI highly doubt it is food. His fins are super torn and look a little clamped, I think it is possible the beginning of nitrate posioning, I did a fishless cycled with fish food to cycle his tank, It is posssible there is still a little left over food producing ammonia.



He has become a bit more active though, but still I am concerned. Is there any meds that can aid fin regrow? and does anyone see anyother problem here other then just stress?

 

[el337]

If the numbers you indicated in the first post are accurate, not sure how it could be ammonia or nitrate poisoning unless you think these are effects from the bowl/tank he was in prior to purchasing him. What test kit are you using? I would just make sure to keep the water very clean instead of going straight to meds.

 

[Das96]

I am using apI master test kit, but the color for 10 or 20 ppm is way to similar in nitrates. So nitrates can be anywhere from 10-20ppm, I am assuming it is on the higher end because of how the fish was behaving. I did a water change and another gravel clean, he is now spreading his fins more. and seems a lot more active.

 

[el337]

That's a good sign! Clean water should definitely help his fins too!

 

[Das96]

just out of curiosity, how can unclean water make fins become shredded like seen in the picture?

 

[el337]

It's bacteria from poor water conditions that cause it.

 

[DAB56]

It's bacteria from poor water conditions that cause it.

This is very true

just out of curiosity, how can unclean water make fins become shredded like seen in the picture?

I suppose its similar to us in a way. Bacteria and germs are all around in the air and on surfaces, when our immune systems are down due to stress etc, we become very vulnerable to those said bacteria etc.

Aquarium water does contain bacteria, fungus pores and other micro-organisms. When fish are stress free and have healthy slime coats etc due to having pristine waters and an environment appropriate to their needs including being free from bullying, correct water requirements and the healthy diets etc, their immune systems protect them from these bacteria, micro organisms and free radicals. But as soon as these things become negative the fish's immune system lowers to the point that they no longer have a resistance to the negative organisms in their environment and become victI'm to attacks by these fungus pores and or bacteria etc

 

[Das96]

I have a question on water conditioner. What would be the symptoms of decholorinator overdose? I have API tap water conditioner, super strength formula. I put two drops in the .5 gallon of water and put that water back into the tank.

 

[QCAquaholic]

So I recently moved my betta (and 1 nerite snail) from a 3.5 gallon to a 20 gallon long (not cycled). All of the plants (3) and his rock house were moved over though. I didn't move the substrate because it's full of fluorescent colored pebbles, and I'm going for a natural look to the new tank. The 3.5G had two filters in it. One I put in the 20G's filter, and the other I squeezed out into it.

He'd been swimming around just fine every day this week, eating normally, occasionally flaring at the fish he sees on the iPad on the side of the tank. I feed him twice a day (not a lot), and he did not seem interested in yesterday's afternoon feeding. This morning he was just motionless outside of his rock house. He didn't move when I rang the dinner bell (I tap a few times on the rI'm of the tank and he usually swims up). I did see him eventually swim up and take one of the pellets. He's been spending most of the day inside his rock house which isn't normal for him.

I have been testing the water every day. I have those API 5-in-one test strips and the API ammonia test strips as well. Ammonia showed nothing. Nitrate barely registered past 0. Same with Nitrates. The general hardness showed about 30 ppm, and carbonate hardness was between 0 and 40 ppm. pH was between 6.5 and 7, which seemed a little lower than normal. I did recently a little bit of dwarf hair grass and a little micro sword. I read this morning that plants can lower pH. Water temperature is around 80 degrees.

I have recently read that those test strips aren't always reliable so I did a 50% water change first thing this morning in case those readings were off. I usually just did about a 10-25% water change every week in the 3.5G. We have a filtered tap in the building, but I still add water conditioner before putting it in the tank anyway. I also added some more Quick Start to the mix (after the conditioner had a couple of minutes in the bucket), and I made sure the water temperature was the same as the tank.

Anyone have any clue what could be going on?

 

[Sprinkle]

Your tank isn't obviously cycled. If the tank would be cycled then nitrites sould be constantly registered on the fish register.
Carbonate hardness shouldn't be at 0.
Check parameters again and try lowering the tank temp to 75 F.

CrispiI
coralbandit

 

[QCAquaholic]

Would it be better if I just move him back to the 3.5 gallon, which I know cycled, and just cycle the 20?

 

[Crispii]

Would it be better if I just move him back to the 3.5 gallon, which I know cycled, and just cycle the 20?

If you just recently move him into the 20, then leave him there. Monitor the water parameters and be prepare to do water changes.

 

[QCAquaholic]

Your tank isn't obviously cycled. If the tank would be cycled then nitrites sould be constantly registered on the fish register.
Carbonate hardness shouldn't be at 0.
Check parameters again and try lowering the tank temp to 75 F.

Crispii
coralbandit

Thanks for the reply. The test strip showed nitrites at just a little darker than 0 ppm but not as dark as .5 ppm. It also showed carbonate hardness at just a bit darker than 0 ppm but lighter than the 40 ppm color. I did adjust the heater to 75 degrees just now.

 

[QCAquaholic]

If you just recently move him into the 20, then leave him there. Monitor the water parameters and be prepare to do water changes.

Thanks for responding. I have no problem doing water changes every day if I need to. How much water should I change? Was the 50% I did this morning excessive?

 

[Sprinkle]

Thanks for the reply. The test strip showed nitrites at just a little darker than 0 ppm but not as dark as .5 ppm. It also showed carbonate hardness at just a bit darker than 0 ppm but lighter than the 40 ppm color. I did adjust the heater to 75 degrees just now.

Sorry, but you confused me. Could you tell me the actual results please?

 

[Crispii]

Thanks for responding. I have no problem doing water changes every day if I need to. How much water should I change? Was the 50% I did this morning excessive?

It's fine. You can do a 25-50% daily until it's cycled.

 

[QCAquaholic]

Sorry, but you confused me. Could you tell me the actual results please?

NO3 was a shade between 0 and 20.
NO2 might have got to .5.
pH was a shade between 6.5 and 7.
KH was a shade between 0 and 40.
GH was about 30.

We have a couple of established tanks in our building, and I’ve been told I could borrow some of their decorations to help out.

 

[QCAquaholic]

He's acting better this morning. I gave him some of his favorite food, mysis shrimp, and he attacked them with ferocity. I'm feeling better now too. The test strips showed about the same this morning. Ammonia didn't show up but there was some nitrite. I'm doing a 25% water change, not vacuuming the gravel of course.

 

[Somethingcool]

My Betta has been acting extremely lethargic for the past few days, he at one point would not accept food and would only stay on the floor, i have had him for 3 months and until now he has been fine (except for a fin that got ripped and seemed to have repaired in a weird way). He has always been curious and active but for the last 4 days his energy levels have become lower and lower. At first I thought he was getting bored but then on Sunday before I completed a water change I noticed he had given up on swimming completely and was just laying on the floor sleeping, he was not responsive and I got extremely worried. From what I could see he seemed to be fine and he was showing no physical symptoms. The next day I started researching on what could be causing this and realised that his fin had been damaged and he could have caught any sort of bacterial or fungal infection. Looking at him again I thought I noticed a white patch making me think it was a fungal disease. I searched how to deal with it and the website i saw said to turn the temperature down and treat him. I then showed showed the rest of my family the pictures however they said I was being paranoid and he was always that colour. However a few hours later I noticed the Betta was hanging out on top of the filter and was more responsive however he still didn’t come to me when he saw me like he used to. He did however accept food now. I was going to get him medicine that day however did not because of this and what my family said. Today I decided to see if I turned the filter back on to see how he would react. He instantly got off the filter and swam straight back down unresponsive. I obviously turned the filter back off and tbh he seemed a bit more active then yesterday he now has started following my finger for food and has come up to me when he notices me. However he still is not swimming if I am not their as soon as I move away I have noticed that he rests back onto the filter. What’s weird is he has always loved the filter even when it was on, I once by accidentally left the filter Lid open and he would run in and out of it even with the current (I even think that’s where he hurt his Finn) if he can swim into a filter why is he struggling to swim against it. Another thing is I have noticed him yawning??? He seems to stretch his mouth occasionally however I haven’t seen him do it before could he not have enough oxygen, could something be attacking his gills, that may be also why he is next to the filter so it is easier to breathe from the surface however he dose not seems to be breathing heavily and does not take that many breaths for the air either. Overall I have no idea what is happening could it be temperature, disease, constipation ammonia poisoning. I really don’t know.
( I have posted photos of him)

Stats:
18 gallon tank cycled
Temp 27 degrees Celsius before he was sick
Temp 23 when the website told me
Only him in the tank
Planted
Ammonia: unknown I stupidly bought a test strip without ammonia reading, I have been meaning to get liquid test kit
Nitrate- 0-20
Nitrite - 0
Carbonate hardness(ppm)-180-240
General hardness (ppm)-180

 

[Iggypuffer]

The only thing that jumps out at me is the temp. that you have him at now. I would bring the temp. up to about 25 degrees as 23 is a little on the cool side for him.

 

[Somethingcool]

Thanks for the reply
That is exactly what I thought he doesn't seem to be showing any physical symptoms however on Sunday he looked like he was on his death bed. I only had him at 23 degrees in fear that it was a fungal infection and returned him to around 25-26 degrees a few hours ago. He perks up when the filter is off but no where near his usual self. Will he stay like this? Is their anything I should do to help him?

 

[Leinalou]

The "yawning" sounds to me like he may be gasping? If you add a bit of aquarium salt (not table salt!!!)
this tends to help with oxygenation and overall health. Is he at all swollen? How does his swim bladder seem? You could try feeding him a pea to help with digestive health. Maybe give him something to rest on close to the top, or lower his water level- that is a large distance for a little sick guy to swim. Good luck!

 

[Somethingcool]

Yh, I have not thought about constipation too much, I am a bit reluctant to give him any vegetable matter as the last time I did he nearly chocked on it. I have got some freeze dried daphnia, maybe I should just not feed him for a day or two? I do think that he is now resting on the filter so that he can reach the surface a lot more easier however he won’t move and become unresponsive if I turn the filter on, maybe he really dislikes the current but he never did before. In terms of being swollen, I have no idea I really can’t tell the difference between a swollen and a fine Betta I was hoping that if their was a problem u guys would be able to tell from the pictures. I don’t think he swollen anyway. I will also try some salt but I have plants in the tank and have heard a lot of controversy over it, so I am not a hundred percent sure in using it.
Ps. Watching him while writing the message he seems to be venturing away from the filter a little bit going straight back.
Thanks for the reply btw

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I don't think he is bloated. You would definitely see that. If he isn't gasping for air, then that is a good thing!

I don't see any visible problems to his body, either, from the pics that you were able to post.

I would get an ammonia test to make sure that you don't have a problem with your water parameters.

How often are your water changes?

If he had a fungal or bacterial infection from the torn fins, his fins would be rotting/receeding.

Until you see something else, I would suggest small water changes every other day. Make sure that you are using a water conditioner/something to remove chlorine.

Keep him warm. If you can get some, add some Indian almond leaves to your tank. They release tannins which provide a natural anti-septic and anti-bacterial agent. They reduce stress as well. The water will be tinted brown, but that's ok. Bettas tend to love it!

Turn on the filter. He needs filtered water!

If you have a way to add a betta bed, or something like that in which he can lay on closer to the top of the tank, that would help. If not, you might want to lower the water level if you see him having trouble breathing.

I would try this to see if there is any improvement. You can do a salt bath, but I wouldn't if I didn't see an issue with his body.

Epsom salt baths are good for swim bladder issues.

I hope this helps!

 

[Somethingcool]

Thx for the reply
I’m happy you don’t think he is bloated or has an infection. I will either get another test kit or minimum get the water tested for ammonia by a pet shop.
I complete a water change once every week as he is alone in a quite large 18 gallon tank. It was however recently two times a week after he ripped his Finn to try keep the water clean so he can heal. I will up it to 3 small changes now.
I use tetra aqua safe at the moment to dechlorinate. Btw when u say to keep him warm, how warm? At the moment he is at 25 degrees should I take it up a bit?
I will attempt to get some almond leaves or something that releases tannins however I don’t think my family will think it would look great. I can remove the colour after right?

I did want to turn the filter on however when I do he goes into something like a comma barely moving and not accepting food.
I will try get a betta hammock and then try turn the filter on.

Every time he wants to take a breath on the surface, usually during midday when he is responsive and somewhat swimming he rests on the filter so for now I think I won’t have to lower the water level but if I do see him having trouble I will.

I was also a bit wary of Epsom salt, some people seem to really like it and others think it’s does more harm then good but if he gets any worse I most likely will use it.however should I think about using another treatment, medicine?

The problem I have is, I have no idea what his problem may be. Being lethargic seems to be a symptom of every type of disease or illness. And with no other symptom I can’t diagnose him let alone really treat him.
However the help is much appreciated.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I keep my bettas temp around 80 degress, which would be about 26 and a half degrees C. My fish seem to like it on the warm side, even though I live in a very hot place!

And I understand the frustration of not knowing what to do when there is no outward sign to help you pinpoint what is going on.

All you can do is keep an eye out to see if anything changes.

I didn't like the tinted water from the tannins at first, either, but as I did research, I realized that it was very beneficial for the fish. It's really not so bad.

If anything changes, maybe you can post an updated pic.

I hope he gets better!

 

[Somethingcool]

It’s getting pretty bad, this morning I checked on the Betta and he was sitting on the grave, making sure he was okay I slowly bought my algae scraper closer to him and he jumped up and started running around like crazy before going to the surface and then resting on the filter collapsed could this be ammonia, oxygen? My filter was on and so was my heater. I think he is also getting paler, loosing his colour. Should I add salts now, can u narrow it down towards a specific Illness should I do a big water change?

 

[Somethingcool]

He died, just before sunset. I still don’t know what killed him.

 

[Fisch]

He died, just before sunset. I still don’t know what killed him.

Sorry to hear that he did not pull through
Just out of interest, what kind of food, and how much food did you give him on a daily base?

 

[Rose of Sharon]

He died, just before sunset. I still don’t know what killed him.

I am so sorry, and I wish I could have been more helpful to you! He passed within days.....and I still don't see an outward sign on your last pic, either, other than the change in color.

If you are thinking of getting another, I would definitely get your water tested for ammonia. I figure that you had your tank cycled with the nitrate readings that you posted.

He could also have had an internal injury that you just couldn't see.

He was a pretty boy....my sympathies!

 

[Somethingcool]

Thx for the help still, sorry for the late reply. On a daily basis I gave him Dajana Betta pellets, not too sure if you have heard of it. I also would occasionally give him freeze dried daphnia but he didn’t like it much. I would also give him a fish flake occasionally, I know they don’t carry as much protein but I would rarely ever give them mostly because he really seemed to like it and to give him something a bit different.

 

[Fisch]

Thx for the help still, sorry for the late reply. On a daily basis I gave him Dajana Betta pellets, not too sure if you have heard of it. I also would occasionally give him freeze dried daphnia but he didn’t like it much. I would also give him a fish flake occasionally, I know they don’t carry as much protein but I would rarely ever give them mostly because he really seemed to like it and to give him something a bit different.

I know I am a beginner with fish, the first picture looks like he is a bit on the skinny side. It may be just the angle. After my Betta was pretty sick and always on the hungry side,
Having all information on your side will help with the next one, and hopefully there will be a next one as they are fascinating creatures.