Are these tears or fin rot?

[mmrr7313]

Good morning folks. I am so scared! Is this fin rot or tears? 2 consecutive mornings I have woken up to find our betta's fins damaged. I'm terrified of the answer, but please help.

 

[BigManAquatics]

Can't tell for sure but treatment is pretty much the same either way. Partial water changes pretty much daily. Least thats what always works for me.

 

[mmrr7313]

Can't tell for sure but treatment is pretty much the same either way. Partial water changes pretty much daily. Least thats what always works for me.

So we have been doing 20% once a week. What % daily would you suggest? Also... we have never seen ammonia, some members have suggested the tank might well already be cycled. We are going on week 5 with the tank and the fish. Guessing the water changes won't mess with our very new cycle? ANd just to clarify... we does PRIME to the volume of new water we are putting in and treat it before adding, correct? Not dosing to the volume of the aquarium?

 

[GouramiGirl100]

Your betta looks beautiful. It’s completely normal to have some minor imperfections in their long fins because they get snagged etc. Some of my bettas have some minor imperfections I think I got them that way honestly. Keep checking water parameters and make sure everything is good. You can do water changes more often. It’s obviously only an issue if the shreds get worse. I would not do any medications yet.
just to answer your question on prime: I add it to the new water before it goes into the tank

 

[mmrr7313]

Thank you for writing. I am literally more anxious than you can imagine over this (you know, see a tear... can't stop thinking that he won't have any fins left a week from now lol).

This is our first fish and I got him because I want to raise my son (9) with a pet (so much value) and because I have always loved nature and specifically aquatics. My history for pets has been adopting high needs rescue dogs for the past 20 years and I have been far too heart broken to go down that path again. We have not had a pet for 4 years because of it...our last one had such terrible medical issues that I think it left me with ptsd (not kidding). I read and studied and planned so well for this little fish, but still have been so stressed out for fear of something going wrong. And I get it... it's nature, it's fragile. I just don't know how to care less!

I did a 2 gallon water change this morning of the 5 gallon. Will need to get bigger buckets to do a greater change.

The fish store we got him from of course suggested Stress Coat today too when I sent them pics on Facebook. But I am scared to use that. I added another Indian Almond Leaf after the water change to add back tannins.

Ugh... do either of you know if I am suppose to post a reply to my own thread when I am writing back to people, or specifically go into the box and hit reply for the person I am responding to?

I also have gotten myself into a pickle now with what water to use in the tank if you guys think I should be doing more frequent water changes. We started with good old plain tap water, on the advice of the fish store (which is a small business, not a big box). But then the next employee told us the water in our city is terrible for fish because it is so hard (upwards of 30 gpg) and all our taps are softened and water softened with a softener is bad for the fish (also seems to be far higher ph coming our of our taps than city water should be). So we went to a local water supply store and they suggested a lot of aquarium folks in town use a 50/50 blend of their R.O. water with their alkalised water. So we started using that right at the beginning and so now have to go buy water for every change That got complicated fast!

Thank you to all of you for reaching out with help. It's so kind!!

 

[BigManAquatics]

So we have been doing 20% once a week. What % daily would you suggest? Also... we have never seen ammonia, some members have suggested the tank might well already be cycled. We are going on week 5 with the tank and the fish. Guessing the water changes won't mess with our very new cycle? ANd just to clarify... we does PRIME to the volume of new water we are putting in and treat it before adding, correct? Not dosing to the volume of the aquarium?

Usually to heal stuff with fins i do about 20-30% 4 or 5 times a week.

 

[GouramiGirl100]

You’re doing great! Keeping fish is not much different than keeping any other pet. As far as using tap water, it’s fine. Not sure if the local store wants you to use their own water (mine also has bc I live in Fl and aquifer water is very hard), but it’s not necessary imo. As for replying, what you did was fine or you can reply individually it’s up to you. I use my own tap water no issues with it, I keep all kinds of fish.

 

[mmrr7313]

You’re doing great! Keeping fish is not much different than keeping any other pet. As far as using tap water, it’s fine. Not sure if the local store wants you to use their own water (mine also has bc I live in Fl and aquifer water is very hard), but it’s not necessary imo. As for replying, what you did was fine or you can reply individually it’s up to you. I use my own tap water no issues with it, I keep all kinds of fish.

It's so hard to know. The water blend from the store (a water store in town, not the fish store) has a pH of closer to 7.5, and our tap is more like 8, and the changes to the chemistry make up that the water softener in our house creates are not suppose to be good for fish. Maybe if we had a tap that wasn't softened we'd be better off!

 

[GouramiGirl100]

It's so hard to know. The water blend from the store (a water store in town, not the fish store) has a pH of closer to 7.5, and our tap is more like 8, and the changes to the chemistry make up that the water softener in our house creates are not suppose to be good for fish. Maybe if we had a tap that wasn't softened we'd be better off!

I can’t say how the water is softened so it’s up to you but if you have been using tap and then switch to bottled, do it over time so you don’t shock your fish with the sudden change in parameters

 

[mmrr7313]

Your betta looks beautiful. It’s completely normal to have some minor imperfections in their long fins because they get snagged etc. Some of my bettas have some minor imperfections I think I got them that way honestly. Keep checking water parameters and make sure everything is good. You can do water changes more often. It’s obviously only an issue if the shreds get worse. I would not do any medications yet.
just to answer your question on prime: I add it to the new water before it goes into the tank

How do you learn to judge what's just a snag and what's fin rot? I wouldn't be worried about a few tears, because I know he has good water parameters and will heal. I've tried to look at pictures and look closely at his fins, but I just don't know.

 

[GouramiGirl100]

How do you learn to judge what's just a snag and what's fin rot? I wouldn't be worried about a few tears, because I know he has good water parameters and will heal. I've tried to look at pictures and look closely at his fins, but I just don't know.

Generally fin rot will worsen. Treatment is generally the same at this stage which is just keep water parameters pristine

 

[mmrr7313]

So this did turn into full out fin rot, despite daily water testing with my liquid API test kit and religious water changes 5 times a week after noticing the tears. I'm struggling to understand why, so I can avoid it again at all costs.

When I saw the obvious rot, I removed every item and plant from the aquarium and found a SURPRISING about of mess UNDER the driftwood and buried in the low plant leaves. Mostly snail poop I think, but other gunk too. Before the fin problems I had been vacuuming the substrate once a week, thinking I was cleaning everything. But I wasn't re-arranging the aquarium contents. Do you think this mess would have been enough to cause fin rot? Have I found the culprit? How on earth did this not register any ammonia build up on my test kit? (We have now had it for 10 weeks.) Can this debris just cause bacterial problems and not ammonia if the tank has indeed cycled?

Anyways, we treated with aquarium salt for 10 days (trouble getting other meds in Canada) and the rot seems to have abated. There's definitely lots of new fin growth, but he is still getting a few new little holes/and tears which still has me on alert. Maybe weakness? (We have combed the tank for anything that could be snagging.)

I realize my tank might not be cycled anymore with the excessive water changes and salt, so I will keep an eye on that. I am still doing water changes most days. Currently alternating a smaller 20-30 % change one day and picking up mess with a turkey baster with a bigger 40-50% change the next and vacuuming the substrate, including UNDER stuff. How long do I keep this up for? Can I slow down on it yet? I am worried it could return. He looks like he's improving lots, but there's a few little slides backhere and there with the fins still. Do I keep going until he is fully healed? The snail seems to make a lot of mess!

Any input and guidance here greatly appreciated. And happy weekend all!

 

[BigManAquatics]

It all helps, but one thing, since he is a bigger finned betta, they seem to get fin rot a bit easier and sometimes more time to get healed, mainly because there can be so much to grow back. Maybe try 3 times a week instead of 5 for the next couple weeks and if still progress, can go back to a 50% weekly change.

 

[mmrr7313]

Ok, I appreciate the guidance. The ironic thing is that I told my son he had to pick one that didn't have super long fins. And he did. The fish was decently compact in his fin size compared to many others there. However.... one month later.... he grew 4 sizes lol!

 

[kuhlkid]

Ok, I appreciate the guidance. The ironic thing is that I told my son he had to pick one that didn't have super long fins. And he did. The fish was decently compact in his fin size compared to many others there. However.... one month later.... he grew 4 sizes lol!

Proof he's MUCH better off with you than he was in the cup. Good luck with him, he's a stunning fish, and clearly he's very loved.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Hi,

One thought...does he flare a lot? Sometimes this can cause holes, splits or tears in long finned bettas. He is a very beautiful boy!

And they do tend to squeeze in places they don't belong....too curious for their own good, lol!

 

[mmrr7313]

Hi,

One thought...does he flare a lot? Sometimes this can cause holes, splits or tears in long finned bettas. He is a very beautiful boy!

And they do tend to squeeze in places they don't belong....too curious for their own good, lol!

We do not see him flaring unless we put up a mirror. He seems pretty calm and chill most of the time. Between the three of us, someone is home most of the day and so we have tried watching him at different times of day, different lighting etc. The only time is goes nuts is when we come over to the tank and he's hungry. Then he does quite a squirmy dance!!

Proof he's MUCH better off with you than he was in the cup. Good luck with him, he's a stunning fish, and clearly he's very loved.

It all helps, but one thing, since he is a bigger finned betta, they seem to get fin rot a bit easier and sometimes more time to get healed, mainly because there can be so much to grow back. Maybe try 3 times a week instead of 5 for the next couple weeks and if still progress, can go back to a 50% weekly change.

I made the decision today to take the nerite snail out of the betta tank (gave him his own home, at least for awhile). In my quest for "pristine" healing water, I spend an inordinate amount of time cleaning huge amounts of snail poop. However, since we rarely feed the snail, I know this means he must be consuming a bunch of bio film that I can't see. Is this a good decsion, or am I going to regret it and be over run with algae in a few weeks? My logic was that the waste is going to harm the betta, whereas I have read algae wouldn't.

Proof he's MUCH better off with you than he was in the cup. Good luck with him, he's a stunning fish, and clearly he's very loved.

It all helps, but one thing, since he is a bigger finned betta, they seem to get fin rot a bit easier and sometimes more time to get healed, mainly because there can be so much to grow back. Maybe try 3 times a week instead of 5 for the next couple weeks and if still progress, can go back to a 50% weekly change.

I made the decision today to take the nerite snail out of the betta tank (gave him his own home, at least for awhile). In my quest for "pristine" healing water, I spend an inordinate amount of time cleaning huge amounts of snail poop. However, since we rarely feed the snail, I know this means he must be consuming a bunch of bio film that I can't see. Is this a good decsion, or am I going to regret it and be over run with algae in a few weeks? My logic was that the waste is going to harm the betta, whereas I have read algae wouldn't.

 

[mmrr7313]

Here are some pictures, in a timeline. I do see lots of new growth and improvement, but still see some areas that make me very scared. Should I repeat the salt, try antibiotics or just keep on with the water changes and see if it improves more now without the extra waste of Mr. Snail? I would prefer to do the latter, but on May 11th the slide was so big inside of one day, that I am fearful! When I look at pics from how bad it was May 11, I think he's getting better. When I look back at the pics at the top of this post from the end of April, I realize how bad it still looks. Can some more experienced eyes take a look for me? Eternally grateful!
Here are some pictures, in a timeline. I do see lots of new growth and improvement, but still see some areas that make me very scared. Should I repeat the salt, try antibiotics or just keep on with the water changes and see if it improves more now without the extra waste of Mr. Snail? I would prefer to do the latter, but on May 11th the slide was so big inside of one day, that I am fearful! When I look at pics from how bad it was May 11, I think he's getting better. When I look back at the pics at the top of this post from the end of April, I realize how bad it still looks. Can some more experienced eyes take a look for me? Eternally grateful!

 

[kuhlkid]

imo, that looks like fin regrowth to me! keep up with those water changes, you're doing right by your lil fella.

 

[Perfect]

Beautiful animal. Tap water is absolutely fine. I use it for my saltwater tank.

 

[mmrr7313]

imo, that looks like fin regrowth to me! keep up with those water changes, you're doing right by your lil fella

imo, that looks like fin regrowth to me! keep up with those water changes, you're doing right by your lil fella.

Thanks! I am so deeply hopeful he will heal. I've changed his foods to the best I can find, added a multivitamin, always use IAL and today I hacked my filter a bit to add some extra media (left the original cartridges) to beef up filtration.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I agree with water changes only for now. He really is getting better!!

You are doing a great job!

 

[mmrr7313]

Hello. Me again. Worried if healing is still progressing or not. It's been just over a month now. Have been seeing lots of clear new growth, so was encouraged. However, yesterday, I noticed two tiny new pinholes and what seems to be a papery type strip near the part that didn't seem to be healing yet (dorsal fin). I can't tell if it's regeneration or rot. Opinions? Pics attached, look at the yellow arrows.

Have moved to changing water every day or two instead of every day in hopes that things were progressing. Still don't think he's flaring unnecessarily that would cause pin holes, and everything in his tank has been examined and examined again. Going away at the beginning of July, so worried about that too. Worried because the water changes will have to stop for close to two weeks, just have someone who can feed sparingly. Worried that if I use meds now, the tank's cycle will get messed up. And the day fin rot set in, I have a video showing healthy fins and LITERALLY 4 hours later a photo of rotting fins. (I can post of anyone wants.) The speed of that original demise a month ago has left me with nightmares!

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Hi,

I know that most won't agree with this recommendation, but you could do a few methylene blue baths. All my bettas have tolerated it well, and it works well for fin and body issues.

If you are interested, you can use 1 ml of methylene blue to one gallon of treated, heated tank water. He can stay in the bath for 30 minutes. I usually use a clean bucket. But be aware that if you try this, the methylene blue will stain everything....your skin, your clothes, the bucket....anything it touches. It's an old and trusted remedy used by fish keepers for years. The other issue would be getting him into the bath without doing more damage to his fins. I usually get a clean plastic container and just scoop up the betta out of the tank. If you have to chase him around, it could cause more damage. So, only do this if you are comfortable with the process and confident that you can scoop him up without doing more damage.

My two go-to remedies for early caught fin and body issues are aquarium salt and methylene blue baths.

Unfortunately, fin issues go hand-in-hand with long finned bettas.

And maybe you could get the person who is going to be feeding to also do small water changes? Something as simple as using a cup to take out some water and add back some pretreated water that you keep in a clean bucket? Just a thought, for what it's worth...

Hope this helps!

 

[mmrr7313]

Hi,

I know that most won't agree with this recommendation, but you could do a few methylene blue baths. All my bettas have tolerated it well, and it works well for fin and body issues.

If you are interested, you can use 1 ml of methylene blue to one gallon of treated, heated tank water. He can stay in the bath for 30 minutes. I usually use a clean bucket. But be aware that if you try this, the methylene blue will stain everything....your skin, your clothes, the bucket....anything it touches. It's an old and trusted remedy used by fish keepers for years. The other issue would be getting him into the bath without doing more damage to his fins. I usually get a clean plastic container and just scoop up the betta out of the tank. If you have to chase him around, it could cause more damage. So, only do this if you are comfortable with the process and confident that you can scoop him up without doing more damage.

My two go-to remedies for early caught fin and body issues are aquarium salt and methylene blue baths.

Unfortunately, fin issues go hand-in-hand with long finned bettas.

And maybe you could get the person who is going to be feeding to also do small water changes? Something as simple as using a cup to take out some water and add back some pretreated water that you keep in a clean bucket? Just a thought, for what it's worth...

Hope this helps!

Hi Rose of Sharon. Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I could get a few small changes done by the neighbour, just didn't know if that would be enough to matter. I think I could get him into a container for a bath, but I don't know how'd I'd get him back into his tank without getting some of the methylene blue bath water back into the main tank. I'm not comfortable netting him, only scooping him into a container. Thoughts?

 

[Rose of Sharon]

What I do is use a separate container to scoop my bettas out of the bath, then I pour off most of the bath water in that container out and protect the betta from falling into the sink with my fingers. Then, with just enough bath water left in the container to cover most of the betta while the container is being held/carried and slightly tilted, I just pour that into the tank. That small amount of methylene blue and aquarium salt won't hurt anything at all.

I hope I made sense in trying to describe my process, lol!

If he's in a 5 gallon tank, I think any amount of water change will help. The trick is to not bring the temp of the tank water down by pouring in new water that is cold.

 

[mmrr7313]

What I do is use a separate container to scoop my bettas out of the bath, then I pour off most of the bath water in that container out and protect the betta from falling into the sink with my fingers. Then, with just enough bath water left in the container to cover most of the betta while the container is being held/carried and slightly tilted, I just pour that into the tank. That small amount of methylene blue and aquarium salt won't hurt anything at all.

I hope I made sense in trying to describe my process, lol!

If he's in a 5 gallon tank, I think any amount of water change will help. The trick is to not bring the temp of the tank water down by pouring in new water that is cold.

I totally follow what you are saying How often would you do the MB bath? Just once?

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I would do one, to see how he reacts. If it stresses him out too much, then I would not do another one.

But if he does ok, I would do one every three days for up to maybe three baths. That would give you a good time frame to see if it is helping or not.