Why are my plants dying?

Fishowner24

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I have been growing these plants for awhile now and they were growing and now they are dying. Why is this? I feel like there isn’t much plants in my fish tank but now they are dying. I just am worried because I don’t want them all to die. I thought it could have been maybe because I didn’t clean my tank for a bit but that didn’t help. It has been like this for awhile but I haven’t been worried until I noticed it getting worse. The leaves are also all growing algae on them and I don’t know why. Thanks!
 

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I have been growing these plants for awhile now and they were growing and now they are dying. Why is this? I feel like there isn’t much plants in my fish tank but now they are dying. I just am worried because I don’t want them all to die. I thought it could have been maybe because I didn’t clean my tank for a bit but that didn’t help. It has been like this for awhile but I haven’t been worried until I noticed it getting worse. The leaves are also all growing algae on them and I don’t know why. Thanks!
It would help to know the details of how they’re growing.

What kind of light fixture? Is it dimmed? Is it new or have had it for a long while?

How many hours a day is it on? Is the tank near a window?

How deep is the tank?

Is it brown algae or a green type? Will it wipe easily off leaves or does it stick to them tightly?

It looks to me like there is healthy new growth on the lily but the floating leaves look very pale. When did they start to look like that?

The crypts have a few reasonably healthy leaves - do I take it that they are all that’s left? It is not unheard of for crypts to melt & grow back but it’s usually because they’ve been moved or their water or lighting has changed drastically.
 

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I have been growing these plants for awhile now and they were growing and now they are dying. Why is this? I feel like there isn’t much plants in my fish tank but now they are dying. I just am worried because I don’t want them all to die. I thought it could have been maybe because I didn’t clean my tank for a bit but that didn’t help. It has been like this for awhile but I haven’t been worried until I noticed it getting worse. The leaves are also all growing algae on them and I don’t know why. Thanks!
What are the nutrients like? Are there fish producing waste and are you fertilising the plants? If you’re not using co2 maybe try that even if they’re plants that thrive without it?
 
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  • #4
It would help to know the details of how they’re growing.

What kind of light fixture? Is it dimmed? Is it new or have had it for a long while?

How many hours a day is it on? Is the tank near a window?

How deep is the tank?

Is it brown algae or a green type? Will it wipe easily off leaves or does it stick to them tightly?

It looks to me like there is healthy new growth on the lily but the floating leaves look very pale. When did they start to look like that?

The crypts have a few reasonably healthy leaves - do I take it that they are all that’s left? It is not unheard of for crypts to melt & grow back but it’s usually because they’ve been moved or their water or lighting has changed drastically.
Sorry. It’s a low light tank with a first gen finned stingray light on a 40 gallon breeder. The light is old and not dimmed. I am not sure why they are so pale. What does it mean? They are also decomposing it looks like also for some reason. The algae is just like brown algae that wipes right off. I heard it’s like diatoms. The light is also on for 6 hours and 30 mins a day and is not near any windows. These plants are probably like 2 months old. The crypts and the bulbs were the only things planted. I think I noticed the dying of the plants and rotting like 3-4 weeks ago. I didn’t change anything in my routine besides maybe taking a little longer to change the water but I have been doing good at that again. So idk what it is. One idea I have for why they are dying is because the lily pads are facing down, they won’t turn over though and if I turn them over they just flip back over.

What are the nutrients like? Are there fish producing waste and are you fertilising the plants? If you’re not using co2 maybe try that even if they’re plants that thrive without it?
I dose a 1/4 of a teaspoon of K2SO4 in the 40 gallons breeder once a week. The fish also produce waste. I have 8 fish. There is no cO2 because it’s low light tank and low maintenance. Thanks!
 
I would remove the lily leaves that are upside down but lilies aren’t low light plants - they need quite bright light so I think it’s mainly an issue of insufficient light for them.

You may have an iron deficiency - it’s one reason leaves may be pale.

What we call brown algae are diatoms and one way to discourage them is to have fairly brisk currents in the tank - enough so the surface is not still but has ripples like a lake with a light breeze.

The crypts look like they still have some healthy leaves so they may be finishing up their adaptation to submersion.
 
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  • #6
I would remove the lily leaves that are upside down but lilies aren’t low light plants - they need quite bright light so I think it’s mainly an issue of insufficient light for them.

You may have an iron deficiency - it’s one reason leaves may be pale.

What we call brown algae are diatoms and one way to discourage them is to have fairly brisk currents in the tank - enough so the surface is not still but has ripples like a lake with a light breeze.

The crypts look like they still have some healthy leaves so they may be finishing up their adaptation to submersion.
Oh ok I see thanks. They are red tiger lotus bulbs and I thought they were low light when I looked them up online. I guess it was wrong. Maybe the dwarf ones are the only low light ones. I will cut the flipped ones though and see if it helps. Thanks!
 

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Oh ok I see thanks. They are red tiger lotus bulbs and I thought they were low light when I looked them up online. I guess it was wrong. Maybe the dwarf ones are the only low light ones. I will cut the flipped ones though and see if it helps. Thanks!
Actually, none of the aquarium lilies are low light. They all need pretty bright light - the Nymphaea like tiger lotus or dwarf & the Nymphoides like N. hydrophylla 'Taiwan or N.aquatica (banana lily).
 
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  • #8
Actually, none of the aquarium lilies are low light. They all need pretty bright light - the Nymphaea like tiger lotus or dwarf & the Nymphoides like N. hydrophylla 'Taiwan or N.aquatica (banana lily).
Oh ok thanks. I wonder how they grew so well to start. The leaves themselves seem to do alright in my low light but the lily pads don’t. Do you have any low light plant ideas that will fill my aquarium? I just don’t want to switch to a brighter light really because I am already dealing with enough algae that I don’t really know how to get rid of and more light is just going to make it worse.
 
Oh ok thanks. I wonder how they grew so well to start. The leaves themselves seem to do alright in my low light but the lily pads don’t. Do you have any low light plant ideas that will fill my aquarium? I just don’t want to switch to a brighter light really because I am already dealing with enough algae that I don’t really know how to get rid of and more light is just going to make it worse.
In truth it is only the floating lily pads that need pretty intense lighting.

Their submerged leaves need much less light.

So if you don’t care about the floating leaves, trim off every new leaf that appears which is heading for the surface. It’s usually easy to tell if that’s where a new one is going.

This will encourage the production of more new leaves that will remain submerged. It may take some time before the plant stops trying to grow new lily pads or at least grows fewer of them but keep trimming the surface bound new leaves as soon as possible.
 
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  • #10
In truth it is only the floating lily pads that need pretty intense lighting.

Their submerged leaves need much less light.

So if you don’t care about the floating leaves, trim off every new leaf that appears which is heading for the surface. It’s usually easy to tell if that’s where a new one is going.

This will encourage the production of more new leaves that will remain submerged. It may take some time before the plant stops trying to grow new lily pads or at least grows fewer of them but keep trimming the surface bound new leaves as soon as possible.
Ok I will do this thanks! I really like the underwater ones so I was hoping to keep those so this is nice to hear!
 
Ok I will do this thanks! I really like the underwater ones so I was hoping to keep those so this is nice to hear!
Great. I fear I assumed it was the floating leaves you were wanting - so it’s good that I assumed incorrectly :-).
 

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Great. I fear I assumed it was the floating leaves you were wanting - so it’s good that I assumed incorrectly :-).
Well I do like floating leaves but I am fine without them. I like everything equally.
 
Hello fish owner 24 im glad to see you got the k2SO4, your plants will likely benefit from a micromix dry fertilizer and if necessary a gh booster( general hardness mostly measures how much magnesium and calcium is in your water). Gh booster is only needed if you have soft water with a low gh reading. As far as a micromix goes the best micromix i have ever found is sold by green leaf aquariums we have it here in the US. Make sure you get their EDTA+DTPA chelated micromix. This just means the chelated nutrients will be in a usable form for plants at a certain ph. So if you have an iron deficiency this will solve that. Then all you may need (if its not present in your tap) is magnesium and or calcium from the gh booster. Your tank may already have this in your tap if it has a mid/high reading of gh. So if you have hard water skip the booster. Beware the gh booster from GLA has potassium in it which you are already adding.

If you want to simplify everything just get the micromix EDTA+DTPA. Then dose a small amount once a week and see how your plants do after a few months with your regular water changes. My plants exploded after i started using that very micromix. Deeper colors and better growth overall.

FYI- if you dont have a mixing container either DIY or buy one it would help to make things easier when mixing salts. So you just measure them all once every few months then add a certain amount from your container.

You likely have enough light even for aquarium lillies especially because the light intensity is higher closer to the surface and the lillies have no trouble sending leaves to the surface.

Also as was mentioned your plants may still be getting used to submerged growth. Pale leaves tells me some sort of micro nutrient is missing.

As for the algae likely more plant mass in your tank with a good water change schedule will get rid of those. Maybe tweaking the lighting hours. Try adding fast growing plants like floating plants certain stem plants even a pothos or other house plants to grow out the top(helps if you habe a raised light or seperate light for these).Adding a few algae eating species may help too. Nerite snails, amano shrimp, ottos. Try and get rid of the problem first the fish will only help slightly. I have seen ramshorn snails eat diatom algae. Ammonia can even be a problem.What creatures eat diatom? | Algae Forum
 
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  • #14
Hello fish owner 24 im glad to see you got the k2SO4, your plants will likely benefit from a micromix dry fertilizer and if necessary a gh booster( general hardness mostly measures how much magnesium and calcium is in your water). Gh booster is only needed if you have soft water with a low gh reading. As far as a micromix goes the best micromix i have ever found is sold by green leaf aquariums we have it here in the US. Make sure you get their EDTA+DTPA chelated micromix. This just means the chelated nutrients will be in a usable form for plants at a certain ph. So if you have an iron deficiency this will solve that. Then all you may need (if its not present in your tap) is magnesium and or calcium from the gh booster. Your tank may already have this in your tap if it has a mid/high reading of gh. So if you have hard water skip the booster. Beware the gh booster from GLA has potassium in it which you are already adding.

If you want to simplify everything just get the micromix EDTA+DTPA. Then dose a small amount once a week and see how your plants do after a few months with your regular water changes. My plants exploded after i started using that very micromix. Deeper colors and better growth overall.

FYI- if you dont have a mixing container either DIY or buy one it would help to make things easier when mixing salts. So you just measure them all once every few months then add a certain amount from your container.

You likely have enough light even for aquarium lillies especially because the light intensity is higher closer to the surface and the lillies have no trouble sending leaves to the surface.

Also as was mentioned your plants may still be getting used to submerged growth. Pale leaves tells me some sort of micro nutrient is missing.

As for the algae likely more plant mass in your tank with a good water change schedule will get rid of those. Maybe tweaking the lighting hours. Adding a few algae eating species may help too. Nerite snails, amano shrimp, ottos. Try and get rid of the problem first. Ammonia can even be a problem.What creatures eat diatom? | Algae Forum
Ok thanks! My water is usually soft but started being harder for a bit. I can test now to see if the water is soft again and if so I will dose some gh booster. I bought gh booster and actually mixed some into my water at one point but sense my water hardness went up I didn’t end up needed it. I will check and see what the levels are at. I think the reason they fluctuate so much is because I use water softener at my house. I have the micromix I just don’t dose it because I was told that for low light tanks that I wouldn’t need it if I change my water once a week and I would only need to dose potassium. I can start dosing that as well. I am also not sure if I have an iron deficiency because idk how to test for that. Thanks!
 
Ok thanks! My water is usually soft but started being harder for a bit. I can test now to see if the water is soft again and if so I will dose some gh booster. I bought gh booster and actually mixed some into my water at one point but sense my water hardness went up I didn’t end up needed it. I will check and see what the levels are at. I think the reason they fluctuate so much is because I use water softener at my house. I have the micromix I just don’t dose it because I was told that for low light tanks that I wouldn’t need it if I change my water once a week and I would only need to dose potassium. I can start dosing that as well. I am also not sure if I have an iron deficiency because idk how to test for that. Thanks!
Whats important for plant growth i have noticed is that if your plants have atleast some of all the needed nutrients they should do well. Note your gh booster might have potassium in it which is also in K2SO4.

It could aslo be noted that your plants might not like too many fluctuations in all these nutrients and water parameters to my understanding(fluctuating ph, gh, kh/ temp, light duration/intensity as well as co2) try to keep everything as stable as you can not changing things often, although these will often fluctuate naturally and without you knowing it. So when you change one or more of these things just keep the changes the same for a month or 2 and observe your plants and fish. I.e. after your regular water change add a SMALL amount (same amount every time) of gh booster and micromix along with the K2SO4 and maybe reduce your lighting to 5 1/2 hours. Do this for a month and observe. All will be well. Do this and your plants will likely do better and stop rotting/or stunting. Trim the old leaves and encourage new growth when necessary.

One other thing you could do is get an idea of how much of everything is in your water with a tds meter. This is a total disolved solids meter very cheap. It tells you how many things are dissolved in your water. Also i read into those and they are really complicated but thats my dumbed down response. They can help to know when you need to do a water change or if there is a bunch of mess and buildup in your water without realizing it. Just something to think about. Im probably wrong about all a tds meter does and measures its still kinda hazy to me. I just keep mine between like 200-400 if it goes above 400 i do water changes to keep it down closer to 300 or 200. Im not even sure what it does honestly lol.

If you use a water softener for your tap then your plants will benefit the most from a gh booster. The micromix will likely benefit them too if they are iron deficient.
 
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  • #16
Whats important for plant growth i have noticed is that if your plants have atleast some of all the needed nutrients they should do well. Note your gh booster might have potassium in it which is also in K2SO4.

It could aslo be noted that your plants might not like too many fluctuations in all these nutrients and water parameters to my understanding(fluctuating ph, gh, kh/ temp, light duration/intensity as well as co2) try to keep everything as stable as you can not changing things often, although these will often fluctuate naturally and without you knowing it. So when you change one or more of these things just keep the changes the same for a month or 2 and observe your plants and fish. I.e. after your regular water change add a SMALL amount (same amount every time) of gh booster and micromix along with the K2SO4 and maybe reduce your lighting to 5 1/2 hours. Do this for a month and observe. All will be well. Do this and your plants will likely do better and stop rotting/or stunting. Trim the old leaves and encourage new growth when necessary.

One other thing you could do is get an idea of how much of everything is in your water with a tds meter. This is a total disolved solids meter very cheap. It tells you how many things are dissolved in your water. Also i read into those and they are really complicated but thats my dumbed down response. They can help to know when you need to do a water change or if there is a bunch of mess and buildup in your water without realizing it. Just something to think about. Im probably wrong about all a tds meter does and measures its still kinda hazy to me. I just keep mine between like 200-400 if it goes above 400 i do water changes to keep it down closer to 300 or 200. Im not even sure what it does honestly lol.

If you use a water softener for your tap then your plants will benefit the most from a gh booster. The micromix will likely benefit them too if they are iron deficient.
Ok thanks. I am going to change my water today so I will add all of this and see how it works. how much micronutrients should I do? I also have a TDS meter already but I don't really get how its helpful so I don't really use it. Thanks for the help! Also what does trimming the leaves help with?
 
Ok thanks. I am going to change my water today so I will add all of this and see how it works. how much micronutrients should I do? I also have a TDS meter already but I don't really get how its helpful so I don't really use it. Thanks for the help! Also what does trimming the leaves help with?
Trimming old leaves helps with new growth because the plant doesnt have to focus on keeping the old leaf alive. So it focuses all it energy in making new leaves.
What brand of booster and micro mix do you have?
 
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  • #18
Trimming old leaves helps with new growth because the plant doesnt have to focus on keeping the old leaf alive. So it focuses all it energy in making new leaves.
What brand of booster and micro mix do you have?
Oh ok that makes sense. And I have equilibrium and for the micro nutrients it’s called Plantex and it’s from Nilocg aquatics
 
Ok thanks when i get home from work i will try and let you know a good amount to dose. For the 40 gallon right?
 
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  • #20
Ok thanks when i get home from work i will try and let you know a good amount to dose. For the 40 gallon right?
Ok thanks! And yes for the 40 gallon. Should I also trim pale leaves or can they still come back?
 
Ok thanks! And yes for the 40 gallon. Should I also trim pale leaves or can they still come back?
After they have grown for a while they pretty much stop growing and start regressing. Then the plant is more so focusing on newer growth. Best to just trim the old after a while. If im not mistaken they will even start sucking nutrients from the old growth and transfer them to the new growth. They will eventual start to bring the water quality down too when they decay.

No they wont "come back" because the plant will be focusing on applying the nutrients and energy from photosynthesis to its new growth. They have ways of transporting nutrients to new growth not old. Its a survival technique. Really a complex process happening inside the plant. Similar to do we really know how our bodies naturally transport nutrients from food all over our body. Its wild.

Shrimp/snails will eat the dead leaves tho if you ever get some other than that im pretty sure only certain leaves of certain trees/plants tend to have beneficial affects worth taking advantage of. Indian almond, mulberry, bamboo leaves, oak leaves. Some of these have antibacterial and antifungal properties, or provide tannins(lowers ph). They provide food/cover for fish and inverts.

Go get some leaves off your oak outside and throw them in. You may even introduce some other alien like bugs and inverts/microorganisms to your tank from the leaves. If your into that kind of stuff. If it doesnt harm your livestock then why not?
 

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After they have grown for a while they pretty much stop growing and start regressing. Then the plant is more so focusing on newer growth. Best to just trim the old after a while. If im not mistaken they will even start sucking nutrients from the old growth and transfer them to the new growth. They will eventual start to bring the water quality down too when they decay.

No they wont "come back" because the plant will be focusing on applying the nutrients and energy from photosynthesis to its new growth. They have ways of transporting nutrients to new growth not old. Its a survival technique. Really a complex process happening inside the plant. Similar to do we really know how our bodies naturally transport nutrients from food all over our body. Its wild.

Shrimp/snails will eat the dead leaves tho if you ever get some other than that im pretty sure only certain leaves of certain trees/plants tend to have beneficial affects worth taking advantage of. Indian almond, mulberry, bamboo leaves, oak leaves. Some of these have antibacterial and antifungal properties, or provide tannins(lowers ph). They provide food/cover for fish and inverts.

Go get some leaves off your oak outside and throw them in. You may even introduce some other alien like bugs and inverts/microorganisms to your tank from the leaves. If your into that kind of stuff. If it doesnt harm your livestock then why not?
Oh ok well this makes sense. Thanks! So for any plant you should cut old leaves off? When do you cut them? Also I tested my Gh and it read 7 degrees of hardness. I think it could be because I use warm water when filling it up so maybe minerals from the water heater or pipes get into the water and raise the gh. My water is also foggy from it for some reason. My nitrates are at 0 though so what can I do to raise those? I was never running out before but now I am. Also maybe I am just missing calcium from my water since that’s mainly what water softener takes out I am pretty sure. So I wonder if I could dose only that. Thanks!
 
Oh ok well this makes sense. Thanks! So for any plant you should cut old leaves off? When do you cut them? Also I tested my Gh and it read 7 degrees of hardness. I think it could be because I use warm water when filling it up so maybe minerals from the water heater or pipes get into the water and raise the gh. My water is also foggy from it for some reason. My nitrates are at 0 though so what can I do to raise those? I was never running out before but now I am. Also maybe I am just missing calcium from my water since that’s mainly what water softener takes out I am pretty sure. So I wonder if I could dose only that. Thanks!
If you trim many old leaves off stem plants you end up with a bare stem. It’s generally more attractive if you cut off the top growth & plant those cuttings & discard bare stems.

Hot water is often full of tiny bubbles which can take some time to rise & dissipate so the water looks clear. To prevent that, it helps if you run the hot water for a couple of minutes before using any for the tank.

Water softeners remove calcium & magnesium ions & replaces them with either sodium or potassium ions depending on whether the softener uses salt or potassium chloride.

You can dose only calcium & magnesium to make up for what the water softener takes out - the ratio of calcium to magnesium is variable but 3:1 or 2:1 works.
 
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  • #24
If you trim many old leaves off stem plants you end up with a bare stem. It’s generally more attractive if you cut off the top growth & plant those cuttings & discard bare stems.

Hot water is often full of tiny bubbles which can take some time to rise & dissipate so the water looks clear. To prevent that, it helps if you run the hot water for a couple of minutes before using any for the tank.

Water softeners remove calcium & magnesium ions & replaces them with either sodium or potassium ions depending on whether the softener uses salt or potassium chloride.

You can dose only calcium & magnesium to make up for what the water softener takes out - the ratio of calcium to magnesium is variable but 3:1 or 2:1 works.
Ok I see thanks! Since I don't really have much top growth can I just cut the leaves only when they start to die? Also what dry ferts do you reccomend to dose for only calcium and magnesium? Also my nitrates after the water change are like 0 so how can I raise those? I have like every possible dry fert but I just need to know which ones to use. Thanks!
 
Ok I see thanks! Since I don't really have much top growth can I just cut the leaves only when they start to die? Also what dry ferts do you reccomend to dose for only calcium and magnesium? Also my nitrates after the water change are like 0 so how can I raise those? I have like every possible dry fert but I just need to know which ones to use. Thanks!
Calcium chloride & magnesium sulfate will do the job. The ratio between them is rather variable but 3:1 should work. This will boost GH.

You can cut the leaves only if you wish, there’s no rule saying you can’t.

If there are fish there should be nitrates - are there fish?

Potassium nitrate (KNO3) would provide nitrates.
 
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  • #26
Calcium chloride & magnesium sulfate will do the job. The ratio between them is rather variable but 3:1 should work. This will boost GH.

You can cut the leaves only if you wish, there’s no rule saying you can’t.

If there are fish there should be nitrates - are there fish?

Potassium nitrate (KNO3) would provide nitrates.
Ok thanks. and yes there is 8 fish. I think it was low because I checked right after I changed the water. And you mean 3 parts calcium chloride to 1 part magnesium sulfate?
 
Ok thanks. and yes there is 8 fish. I think it was low because I checked right after I changed the water. And you mean 3 parts calcium chloride to 1 part magnesium sulfate?
You may be able to just use your gh booster. Check what makes up the mixture on the back of the label or on the website you got it.
 
Ok thanks. and yes there is 8 fish. I think it was low because I checked right after I changed the water. And you mean 3 parts calcium chloride to 1 part magnesium sulfate?
Yes, that’s what I meant.
 

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Hi Fishowner24

I can tell you what is wrong with the Cryptocoryne in the photo below. Insufficient available iron. Why?

Fishlore Fishowner24lg.jpg

Every picture tells a story. #1, the oldest leaf on the cryptocoryne, has normal coloration. #2 the effect if insufficient available iron starting show up and interveinal chlorosis (dark leaf veins, lighter tissue away from veins. #3, shows the main leaf vein a normal green the remainder of the leaf has chlorosis (yellowing). Since iron is a necessary nutrient for photosynthesis. Photosynthesis (which gives plants their green coloration) is what provides the plants with the food (glucose) that the plant needs for growth, you can understand why plants in this tank are not doing well.

I said "insufficient available iron" and not that enough iron is being dosed. Iron is available in several flavors (aka Chelates) EDTA, DTPA, EDDA, and ferrous gluconate. If you are dosing a fertilizer it may have iron but the wrong iron for the pH of your tank (see chart below).
Florida Iron Chelates Lg.jpg
As you can see from the chart above the availability of iron (depending upon the type of chelate) decreases as the pH increases. ETDA, the most common and cheapest form of iron, drops in availability drastically as the pH approaches 6.8 and at pH 7.0 only about 10% of the iron that is dosed is available to the plants.

Fishowner24 do you know what the pH is in your tank?

Hope this helps! -Roy
 
Good info on this. Also what type of fertilizer do you suggest for 6.5 acidity type thanks
 
Good info on this. Also what type of fertilizer do you suggest for 6.5 acidity type thanks
According to the chart if your tank doesnt go above 6.5 then EDTA is fine. My question is why not use DTPA instead just to be safe? The micromix i use has both chelates EDTA+DTPA, its advertised as working in both acidic and alkaline ph.
 
Never heard of that. Where did you purchase that. Tried googling gave me house fertilizer
 
Never heard of that. Where did you purchase that. Tried googling gave me house fertilizer
Its the micromix from green leaf aquariums.
 

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You can also opt for a trace mix with an assortment of all 3 chelating agents - EDTA,DPTA & EDDHA.

APT 3 complete - All in one contains

  • Macronutrients (NPK):
  • Iron:
    • Iron (Fe) 940 mg/l.

    • Chelated by EDTA, DTPA, and EDDHA.
  • Micronutrients and Trace Elements:
    • Boron (B) 146 mg/l.

    • Copper (Cu) 4 mg/l.

    • Manganese (Mn) 149 mg/l.

    • Molybdenum (Mo) 0.009 mg/l.

    • Zinc (Zn) 70 mg/l

There are dry mixes with EDTA or DPTA or EDDHA on AliExpress and price wise they’re not bad. You can try searching on AliExpress using words like Iron chelate DPTA or EDDHA etc.. If you can read Chinese it helps. Not every description on the site is complete in English.
 

Random Great Topic!

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