Taking over someone's 125 gal. Cichlid Tank

Hello again,
I'm picking back up following 2 or 3 years since I broke down my 20 gal long. if you will, allow me to set the stage a bit. I had previously purchased a steal of a deal on two 125 gallon tanks (in need of A LOT of elbow grease to get them back to snuff) for $100. I sold one to recoup my costs and intended to clean and setup the other when a deal too good to pass-up fell before me.

A family friend of the seller who wanted this setup was unable to take it because he was concerned his pre-fab's substructure might not support the weight; and had become a liaison/coordinator to find a suitable buyer. He told me it was an active 125-gal with a stand, a full length LED light, filters, substrate, and rock decor. Patience, prayers, and some time later my brother and I pulled up to the seller's house with a pickup, hand truck, a few 27-gal totes, and some 5-gal buckets to breakdown and transport this existing cichlid tank. I only knew there were a few mid-sized cichlids, nothing else. Not numbers, sizes, temperaments, genders.. nothing. My first look at the fish revealed there were 3. A large black one (12 inches), and two medium around 5" ( one black one, the other yellow.) I ended up finding a fair bit of food, an auto-feeder, an under-gravel mat, a glass-scrubber, replacement filters, some long tube style brushes, a master test kit from an unknown brand, and more inside of the stand. The sellers appeared to be well-off folks who had enjoyed this setup for around 25 years and through 2 different houses and were ready to move on and the aquarium was not in their renovation plans. it was mostly the father's thing though and he did not strike me as overly 'hands-on'; more so someone who adds a pinch daily and just appreciates it. All this for $100 once again (hey, God is good!) and the dirty 125 I had previously bought is now listed to once again recover the costs.

Things went fairly smoothly and nearly according to plan. I filled two 5-gal buckets with tank water to put the fish before any agitation stirred the water. We began draining the tank into one of the 27-gal totes on the hand-truck so it was easy to wheel them out and dump them. As the water level went down. I would gently remove the upper rock decor as they began to emerge from receding surface. Once we got down to about 8" of standing water, all the remaining decor was removed and the fish were cautiously netted and moved into a shared 5-gal bucket. The large one was not having it and ended up biting the net which helped him to keep from flailing for the transfer. Filtration was a Penguin 330 dual bio-wheel unit. The filter pads and bio-wheels were also kept in another 5-gal to maintain any BB they could. We drained as much of the water as we could but most of the substrate ended up staying wet which also helped. This particular tank also had top and bottom slots on the back side to hold a full length mirror which added to its weight. After getting everything in and on the truck, we began one VERY bumpy return trip down about 2 miles of moderately traveled dirt road back toward the pavement.

Once back at home, I added an air stone into the 5-gal bucket the fish were sharing. There was the temptation to alter the tank (1 - remove and rinse the small blue and white gravel and re-do the under gravel mats, 2 - remove the mirror and apply some black or frosted window tint/cling in it's place), BUT there was also a problem that took priority. The tank had NO heaters and I only had two 100W heaters, rated for 40-gal each. These were cheaper models and had only rubber guards at the top and bottom to prevent running into glass walls so I wasn't wanting to leave one in the bucket for the fish. I got them set in the 125-gal after filling it and adding some ammonia detoxifying agents. The office the aquarium was moved into is a renovation on hold. It has insulation but no drywall. I live in the SW united states, our lows are in the mid-30's right now. So it took WAY too long to warm up. I tried adding pots of boiling water but they barely made a dent. The water in the fish's bucket was initially staying warmer than the tank but when it began to dip, and eventually drop colder than the tank water (64 F at this point), I had to get the fish in the tank knowing it would warm up.

Not surprisingly, until now the fish had been a bit lethargic being cold and with the stress of major changes. I was able to get a next-day order for an 800W Hygger heater and placed it near what would be a 2/3'rds line of the tank to cover the center and right side; leaving one 100W to cover just the left side. A slowly set it to raise the water level. Finally I began to see some more activity from the fish. Some research learned me that the big black one was a male Frontosa with the large bulge on it's head. It had faint striping after closer inspection. I initially thought it was all black from stress but found that they do turn black with age. This one being 12" was fully grown. Perhaps he isn't 'as stressed' as originally suspected. The small black one was a female Frontosa. And the yellow had all the markings of a male Yellow Electric. (or 'Hatched' or 'Lab' yellow? Not sure if these are all the same.) All 3 were and are suffering from mild Fin-Rot. The female has it the worst and it still rather lethargic. Mostly laying on the bottom in the same exact spot. Funny enough, she turned 'normal white with black stripes one time while finishing the setup and has since returned to mostly black. Not sure what to make of that yet.
A bottle of Fritz Zyme 9 (or 7) was added to provide additional BB (yes, only an 80-gal tank worth but seeing as this one is using some pre-cycled media I figured it wouldn't hurt anything and could only help.) because I kept the bio-wheels, but ended up using new filters as the old ones were inhibiting the water flow. Cleaned lava rock was also added as biological media in the filter since there was none.

Today, Wednesday the 1st. I tested the water. This is two days since I added the Fritz in.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 15 ppm
pH - 8.5 is my best guess. I am wondering if the rocks used could add alkalinity to the water because this seems high for detoxified tap water. I still need to test my tap for a baseline.
The unfamiliar brand was OLD, the instruction manual suffered from water damage and all the pages had become glued together. The one copyright date I found said 2004. The brand is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Some searching helped me realized that the Mars company (yes the parent company for some of the candy manufactures out there) had acquired this brand another in France (Rena) back around 2007. Mars decided to rename this 3-way merge to a unifying name, thus Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. was re-branded into the now well known name A.P.I.

Okay so that's basically the start of my 'Aqarium take-over'. I've added some pictures of the Aquarium and fish from today. Your thoughts, advice, or concerns are always welcome. I am not a 'you have to do it this way' kind of person; sometimes preferring natural remedies before chemical ones. Originally I envisioned a large community tank (schools of smaller fish) but will try to help these guys to thrive or get them into hands that can. That's the plan. They have lived off cichlid flakes for as long as I can tell. I've started freeze dried shrimp and meal worms to change things up and I'm sure the protein can't hurt. The big guy has taken to them and eats the best. The electric eats okay but mostly off the bottom. I think today he actually went to the top. Not sure the female is eating much yet but she is in the worst shape.

Even though cichlids don't like a lot of light (from research) I assume they are used to the bright light of the LED bar from years of exposure. I try to only use it during the day and will use a warm LED desk lamp with a goose-neck to provide dimmer striking light when it's dark.

That's all (finally) for now. More to come. Glad there is a thread for journals.

 

Well they all look good! So nice move! They are African cichlids and the ph is right for them.

Yes the kit is the standard older API kit. With good old Dr Wellfish on the vials . A classic! I’ve got a kit from 2003 and it work the same as my new kit. Yes chemicals don’t go bad.

 

And it seemed to be going so well.

The fin-rot had been showing mild signs of improvements. A few days ago I added a dose of aquarium salt to to aid with health and recovery. (I tend to lean on natural remedies). Yesterday, and even more today, I had begun to notice the large male frontosa getting some blue coloring back around the face and the lower (pelvic?) fins. Also the stripping was slightly more noticeable. The Electric yellow (lab) was also getting more of the black striping back on his fins as well.
The smaller female frontosa had been a bit of a mystery. At seldom times, she would change from her nearly all black with few white sections to what a normal frontosa should look like. I never understood why and it never lasted long. She as well had a hint of blue today.. until it happened.

I had read some comments from other keepers when researching the compatibility of 'fronts' and yellow labs together; while the yellow labs are some of the more mildly aggressive of the Mbunas, most regarded them to be a bad idea at best to pair with the more passive-aggressive frontosas.

That being said, I watched the female front with her normal coloring swimming in the open (A very unusual but welcomed site since 95% of the time since I'd got the setup, she has hidden between a rock and the side of the tank) only to shortly thereafter be bitten by the yellow lab. Twice this happened. the tank was shortly there after divided using some leftover 'eggcrate diffuser' material. It's a tight fit, catches on the glass on the top, a large rock on the bottom, and had supporting rocks on both sides. It's roughly a 40-gal, 80-gal split. I plan on rehoming the yellow cichlid. My concern now is whether or not the female frontosa can and will recover.

My original hope was to completely empty the tank, re-do the gravel mats and change the substrate. Add plants, get all the hard to reach algae wiped down. Get the mirror attached on the back swapped out for black tint or paint and do a larger community of various species. But I agreed to take the fish with the setup and try to help them all thrive. the worst case scenario is that I rehome the yellow lab, the female front dies, and I'm left with one full grown male who needs medium sized tankmates at minimum so he won't consider them dinner.

The Good Part of the last week (and a half) is seeing more of their personalities emerge. The male front seems to be playful giant, always bumping things on purpose. The dangling airstone is his current favorite.

And the yellow lab is a curious and particular sight when eating. He almost reminds me of a humming bird. moving around quickly only to suddenly stop and hold his position in one spot so he can eat and then right back to swift movements. He will suck rocks into his mouth and spit them out somewhere else to 'dig out' hiding spots under large rocks. He is the most skiddish of the 3.

Side note, the LED light needs a dimmer. Even holding it far above the tank, the light still seems bright. I am eyeballing a PWM DC dimmer but not sure if the PWM function is good, bad, or indifferent as most are listed for use with LED strip lights; arguably nearly the same thing but bigger and using more power.

 

Africans just never interested me. Most who keep them would have lots more in that tank. The more the better to spread out aggression. Tough though because those fish are not the direction you want to go. There are a few on this site that keep Africans maybe they can add some info.

Instead of buying a timer look into the hygger 957 led light. If that tank is 6’ you will need 2 on my 180 I have a 36” and a 30”. Covers the tank nicely. Now what’s nice about this light is it’s fully programable. Has 8 time periods (like a timer). So for these fish you can run the lights at 50% or less and down the line if you do go planted these lights can be run much brighter for plants. With the 8 settings you can set the light to different amounts of intensity at different times of the day. This light is the best bang for the buck and is relatively cheap compared to its competition.

 

Really nice tank and nice fish! Sorry it's not exactly what you wanted or looking for but Who can turn that all down for $100.... hahaha

I guess that #1, the male is Old 12-15 years somewhere in that range by appearance and hump size, and he's had HITH at at some point from the scarring on him. the female, hard to say, but appears to be maybe 8-10 years old by the barring. I don't see the scarring on her like the male, I think the male is just going to be prone to infections, more so than the female. maybe genetics, those scars are old, but maybe immune system is slacking due to old age. With fish that size you can pull out and treat the fins with hydrogen peroxide on cotton balls, then put some neosporin on it to protect it. and this will knock out the infection, just steer clear of the fishes eyes or gill areas with either of them. but big fish are easy to work on for external problems and easier than water changes and the waiting game when a fish has the propensity to external infections.

And #2 since he's that old and the people had the tank for like 25 years, it's possible they are oldtimers that were keeping africans, in which case, you are getting buffering from the coral rock to some extent, and most from crushed coral that's mixed in with the blue gravel (old school style to give the white of all crushed coral a little color). Mine was 50 pounds of crushed coral and a 10 pound bag of black gravel.
Back then we were doing like 4-5 pounds of CC per 10 gallons of water. Nowadays people say just do 1 pound. For me, after the initial set up, I never had to "bump" the pH ever again, mine was always a consistent pH 8.7 with all that crushed coral no matter how much water changing I did or didn't do.

Back in the day we did a lot of things to maintain a stable high pH that people would call overkill now a days,all the darn crushed coral was a main one.
The substrate in this case is helping quite a bit, maybe you want to change it, but I think if you do you'll find it more difficult to keep your pH up there where the fish are comfortable.

 

Africans just never interested me. Most who keep them would have lots more in that tank. The more the better to spread out aggression. Tough though because those fish are not the direction you want to go. There are a few on this site that keep Africans maybe they can add some info.

Instead of buying a timer look into the hygger 957 led light. If that tank is 6’ you will need 2 on my 180 I have a 36” and a 30”. Covers the tank nicely. Now what’s nice about this light is it’s fully programable. Has 8 time periods (like a timer). So for these fish you can run the lights at 50% or less and down the line if you do go planted these lights can be run much brighter for plants. With the 8 settings you can set the light to different amounts of intensity at different times of the day. This light is the best bang for the buck and is relatively cheap compared to its competition.

86,

I wouldn't mind buying compatible cichlids since the setup is already established and geared for them. I would really enjoy seeing a group/school of smaller ones interact.
I looked into the 957, it looks pretty sweet and a good value like you said. Yes, 6' wide. Do you leave yours on the top glass running side to side?

Really nice tank and nice fish! Sorry it's not exactly what you wanted or looking for but Who can turn that all down for $100.... hahaha

I guess that #1, the male is Old 12-15 years somewhere in that range by appearance and hump size, and he's had HITH at at some point from the scarring on him. the female, hard to say, but appears to be maybe 8-10 years old by the barring. I don't see the scarring on her like the male, I think the male is just going to be prone to infections, more so than the female. maybe genetics, those scars are old, but maybe immune system is slacking due to old age. With fish that size you can pull out and treat the fins with hydrogen peroxide on cotton balls, then put some neosporin on it to protect it. and this will knock out the infection, just steer clear of the fishes eyes or gill areas with either of them. but big fish are easy to work on for external problems and easier than water changes and the waiting game when a fish has the propensity to external infections.

And #2 since he's that old and the people had the tank for like 25 years, it's possible they are oldtimers that were keeping africans, in which case, you are getting buffering from the coral rock to some extent, and most from crushed coral that's mixed in with the blue gravel (old school style to give the white of all crushed coral a little color). Mine was 50 pounds of crushed coral and a 10 pound bag of black gravel.
Back then we were doing like 4-5 pounds of CC per 10 gallons of water. Nowadays people say just do 1 pound. For me, after the initial set up, I never had to "bump" the pH ever again, mine was always a consistent pH 8.7 with all that crushed coral no matter how much water changing I did or didn't do.

Back in the day we did a lot of things to maintain a stable high pH that people would call overkill now a days,all the darn crushed coral was a main one.
The substrate in this case is helping quite a bit, maybe you want to change it, but I think if you do you'll find it more difficult to keep your pH up there where the fish are comfortable.

Sparky,

Exactly! Who could say no to $100 to go from nothing to existing aquarium.
I have questions if you would allow me to pick your brain/wisdom?

1) By " pull out', you mean bring the fish out of water quickly to apply the mentioned HP and Neosporin? No issues with Neosporin getting intot he water and causing problems since it's just a anti-bacterial agent?

2) So the rocks are coral? I thought some type of limestone from vinegar tests but this makes sense as well. (perhaps coral is formed from limestone, I'll have to look that one up) As does the crushed coral for substrate because the pH is reliably 8.6'ish no matter the water changes.

Bonus)
Here's one more: Female fronts are supposed to grow to 8-10 inches, she is around 5. Once the lab is rehomed, any guesses on whether the fronts could mate? I have my doubts with the difference in size/age but I am as green as algae with cichlids and fish breeding altogether.

Thanks for all your input. I'll keep in mind what you said about the crushed coral helping the pH. I am not seeing as much need to change it now.

 

Running end to end

 

1. by "pull out", yes out of the water, I was using a wet towel to lay them on, set up beforehand with the Hydrogen peroxide and neosporin and cotton balls or swabs nearby to limit the time out of water and stress, quickly treat the fish and put it right back.
No, the neosporin is pretty water resistant and will stay put on the fish doing minimum damage to your beneficial bacteria colony, while serving also as an antibacterial bandage for the wound. ( most of your BB is in the filter, not the tank, the bad bacteria are in the tank)
People get weird about doing it at first, but I do it if I need to when I was keeping larger fish, and still do it with my angels, I had a couple angels with some severe cuts from running into slate before I figured out to smooth the sharp edges. Smaller fish it needs to be a cotton swab and a bit more careful.
quick wipe with Hydrogen peroxide, then a quick wipe with neosporine and back into the tank, a treatment or two and it's cleared up. Kind of old school, but it's served me well with stubborn external issues or body wounds. these things are good for me and my dog or cat, it's fine for fish also, just keep it out if their eyes/mouth/gills.

2, Aragonite, Coral is aragonite, basically all calcium carbonate. Limestone is the same thing,a different form of calcium carbonates, still calcium carbonates. Basically the same thing, people do say "coral limestone" in place of just coral rock.It's limestone, yeah. Hahaha.

Bonus) If both are mature, size shouldn't matter, but I think the male is possibly too old at this point. they can mature at very different times from each other, from 2 years to 5 years old usually, I've known someone to go with nothing for 8 years and then get a pairing and a spawn.
He may be too old, you can try feeding some live foods and bulking them up for spawning, see if they get some interest for each other.

A big step one would be to see if you can feed live foods and get them "seasoned" maybe the female will become more round in the belly with eggs, then you'd be looking for them to pair and create a circle divot as a spawning site. that would be a good sign they are both interested and can still do the job.
If that works out a big water change can induce her to lay eggs. They are mouth brooders, and she can eat the eggs, Some people will strip the eggs out and put them in a tumbler to hatch, but you'd feed better and keep an eye for behaviors that look like spawning is possible with those two.
Could be that they did spawn with the previous owner, but she eats the spawn every time and it's been going unnoticed unless he was really paying attention for the divots or the behaviors. They will swim side by side in a circle and create a crater to spawn in. And that's a fair point, they like a cave to hide and hangout in, and can breed in there, but they can stick to routine and want a good 1ftx1ft or larger clear bottom area of the substrate they can circle in and make a crater without running into rocks. Could be that there just isn't any place for them that seems right to spawn in, and feeding wasn't right to get them moving, hard to say. You dont' know if you don't try. They aren't easy to spawn, if they were, they wouldn't' cost so much, but a lot of people just don't have the tank set up in a manner where they feel comfortable to spawn.
best of luck!

 

Running end to endView attachment 872803

The two large plants in the middle are Valisneria? Looks great. Lights and all.

To my shame, I didn't have the foresight to put my 20-gal in the stand through the top when setting this tank up after transport and now it's stuck on the side of the stand until such time as I can find or mock up another stand to slide this tank onto. One day, maybe during a larger water change.

 

No they are giant hygro in the middle and a crypt in the right one.

 

1. by "pull out", yes out of the water, I was using a wet towel to lay them on, set up beforehand with the Hydrogen peroxide and neosporin and cotton balls or swabs nearby to limit the time out of water and stress, quickly treat the fish and put it right back.
No, the neosporin is pretty water resistant and will stay put on the fish doing minimum damage to your beneficial bacteria colony, while serving also as an antibacterial bandage for the wound. ( most of your BB is in the filter, not the tank, the bad bacteria are in the tank)
People get weird about doing it at first, but I do it if I need to when I was keeping larger fish, and still do it with my angels, I had a couple angels with some severe cuts from running into slate before I figured out to smooth the sharp edges. Smaller fish it needs to be a cotton swab and a bit more careful.
quick wipe with Hydrogen peroxide, then a quick wipe with neosporine and back into the tank, a treatment or two and it's cleared up. Kind of old school, but it's served me well with stubborn external issues or body wounds. these things are good for me and my dog or cat, it's fine for fish also, just keep it out if their eyes/mouth/gills.

2, Aragonite, Coral is aragonite, basically all calcium carbonate. Limestone is the same thing,a different form of calcium carbonates, still calcium carbonates. Basically the same thing, people do say "coral limestone" in place of just coral rock.It's limestone, yeah. Hahaha.

Bonus) If both are mature, size shouldn't matter, but I think the male is possibly too old at this point. they can mature at very different times from each other, from 2 years to 5 years old usually, I've known someone to go with nothing for 8 years and then get a pairing and a spawn.
He may be too old, you can try feeding some live foods and bulking them up for spawning, see if they get some interest for each other.

A big step one would be to see if you can feed live foods and get them "seasoned" maybe the female will become more round in the belly with eggs, then you'd be looking for them to pair and create a circle divot as a spawning site. that would be a good sign they are both interested and can still do the job.
If that works out a big water change can induce her to lay eggs. They are mouth brooders, and she can eat the eggs, Some people will strip the eggs out and put them in a tumbler to hatch, but you'd feed better and keep an eye for behaviors that look like spawning is possible with those two.
Could be that they did spawn with the previous owner, but she eats the spawn every time and it's been going unnoticed unless he was really paying attention for the divots or the behaviors. They will swim side by side in a circle and create a crater to spawn in. And that's a fair point, they like a cave to hide and hangout in, and can breed in there, but they can stick to routine and want a good 1ftx1ft or larger clear bottom area of the substrate they can circle in and make a crater without running into rocks. Could be that there just isn't any place for them that seems right to spawn in, and feeding wasn't right to get them moving, hard to say. You dont' know if you don't try. They aren't easy to spawn, if they were, they wouldn't' cost so much, but a lot of people just don't have the tank set up in a manner where they feel comfortable to spawn.
best of luck!

Truly, you are a pillar of wisdom. You have my thanks and gratitude.

The female front would probably benefit from this right now with her moderate rot. I think I'll give it a go after the yellow lab is removed. I found a LFS who will take him. Slightly excited to visit based on reviews. Who knew it was there until I looked!

I have been giving flakes for group feeding in the morning. With the male front, I have been working on 'hand-feeding' (via tongs) some freeze dried river shrimp or mealworms. He is the only one that would try it and it still hit-or-miss. Sometimes he doesn't seem to notice so I leave them at the water's surface and wait; always promptly following flakes as he notices those very quickly. Perhaps I can barter for some live foods from the LFS for the lab and try it out.

The fronts seem gloomy today, my guess is the divider. But the lab is as active as ever on his side if not a little more.

 

Sad Deal,

The female Front has 'given up the ghost'. Don't know why, but I felt like taking the water parameters. I dropped one of the vials and am down to an uneven 3 now.. somewhat frustrating. I double checked the nitrates because 5 seemed low. it was 3 fish but I suspect the female wasn't eating and therefore not contributing to the bio-load. So 2 fish eating in a 120-gal. The last water change was Saturday (Feb 4th), nitrates were at 20 before doing a 15% change. I did add a small pothos cutting that has decently established roots from living in a glass jar with water for the last few months, but I would be surprised (happily) if that was enough to counter or even lower the bio-load for 2 fish. Then again, I'm not really familiar with the fine details of gravel and highly porous rock's surface area to BB ratio.

Now seems like a fair time to ask how much other people's 5" and 12" cichlids eat. If I remember, the general consensus was to only add as much food as your fish can eat in 3 minutes? or something like that. I usually feed about 2 pinches once a day in the morning and skip 1 day a week, usually Sunday.

I did find a nearby keeper with an establish 120-gal who has a small community of various fish. Some are the same size, some bigger. He seems knowledge about what matters and the parameters are favorable for the lab. So tomorrow he will be rehomed to a more community environment. Which leaves me with one large Frontosa to focus on. I contemplated keeping the lab BUT, my concern is the lab would begin to pick on the male front despite the size difference. For now I must prepare to play 'Doc WellFish' and apply some hydrogen peroxide and Antibotic creme to the male's pectoral fins which are loosing color. He is an amazing site to see as he gracefully glides through the tank in the morning for the food. I pray I can heal him and continue to restore his blue color and stripes more prominently.

pH - 8.2
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5

Side Thought
The thought of cleaning up the dirty 120-gal tank/stand I originally planned to use, and then seeing if I can barter/trade a LFS for fish came across my mind. One saltwater store I called said they were working on establishing a freshwater section. Perhaps this could help them with needed tanks at no cost and they would only loose a few fish from a full order later; which would give me time to focus on the male. Who knows, they may have plans for a bulk order or new matching tanks. But it never hurts to ask. I am open to the same with a keeper but unless they are needing to expand breeding, I don't see this one being as likely.

I don't fluently speak Spanish. When asked, I normally say that if I found myself on the other side of the border, I should be able to make my way back with the little I can speak. Random thought. Buenas Noches.

 

After removing the yellow lab and the divider, the rock-scape was put back together. Since then, I've really started to appreciate the way it ended up. With all the nooks & crannies, the large cracks where rocks meet, the hidden voids that make for small caves, this tank seems to be begging for a community of small schools. I only wish I could bring in shrimp, snails, loaches, plecos, and groups of something.

Being geared for African Cichlids, the crushed coral could be replaced with something like DE Pool Filter Sand, or possibly inert sandblasting media depending on cost and desired appearance. OR, aquarium wood could be added as a natural method of balancing pH to desirable levels if I wanted to leave the Cichlid realm altogether but keep the rocks. (which I really do). But all of this is a dream at the moment. I gave my work to the previous owners to keep the fish and not just sell them off. The big male Frontosa has a goofy personality, he is fun to watch. But it's just not the same as having a larger group of fish to watch and enjoy. So I stand torn, between my commitment and my future hopes impatiently pushing themselves on me.

 

As it turns out, picking tank makes for a fully grown Frontosa is a bit more tricky than I initially thought.
It's a bit odd reading both 'frontosa cichlids are one of the more agreable / passive of the semi-aggressive cichlid species' and 'Frontosas are very territorial and work best as a loner'. As the old attage says 'Take everything [you read online] with a grain of salt'. Some adelescent Convicts have come available at a good price. 3" -4". I may try to pickup a school and see how it goes.

The pothos shown are the 2nd round and have been in the tank for a few weeks. I just added a few new cuttings today.
I also want to try adding a few patches of some type of moss to the rocks (string or plant weights if needed). Not sure if moss cares about pH being at 8.0+

The blue coloration is now very evident in the mouth and fins for the male Frontosa. The white striping is also much more noticable.

It's nice to sit back and let the tank run with me being as hands off as I can and see things thrive; just like they do in nature.

 

Black calvus ciclid (Altolamprologus calvus). not too small of course, but they have reverse scales they can puff out and wedge into a crack so they can't be gotten to, or jut them out and scrap an attacking fish or just stick them out and make themselves impossible to swallow. other fish learn to stay away and not upset them, it's not worth the effort.

All in all, when you have a larger frontosa that might get territorial, the black calvus is a good choice that will not likely get eaten,

either that or more frontosa. Larger lake tanganyikans could be tried.

Synodontis catfish if they aren't too small. Aterrimus, Decorus, Eupterus, Granulosis, Angelicus, theres some options if you wanted some bottom feeders that get kinda big.

frontosa can get territorial over breeding, and if they can get it into their mouth they might eat it. but yeah they are kinda peaceful as an african cichild goes.