Losing fish - Update another dead today
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I always drip acclimate my shrimp at 1 drop a second or 2 drops a second for at least 1 ½ hours as they can be really sensitive upon acclimation and within the first two weeks of transfer to a new tank. I would suggest doing drip acclimation for any shrimp moving forward. You could have gotten some weak cardinals also. It’s not super uncommon to lose a couple schooling fish in the first month or two of adding some to a tank.
Did you quarantine the cardinals? Are they displaying any signs of illness?
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See the drip acclimation section to learn how to drip acclimate. I actually usually drip acclimate all my freshwater critters because it is the least stressful method for them. Acclimating Fish to Your Aquarium
In regards to quarantine—many times fish can look okay but can carry internal parasites or other illnesses that do not manifest immediately. Many people get by without a quarantine tank (“QT”), but the best practice is to have one. I got one recently because after 2 years in the hobby, I’ve had enough of dealing with illnesses being introduced to my main tanks. Cory from Aquarium Co-Op has said that almost every single fish he has ever gotten has come with some type of illness or pathogen. It’s best to quarantine fish for at least 2 weeks, ideally 3 weeks to a month to observe for any signs of illness such as clear/white stringy poop (sign of internal parasites) and treat accordingly.
Check out Fishlore’s section on quarantining for more info:Quarantine Tank Setup for Aquarium Fish.
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So yest I found a rasboras dead and today an otto and a cardinal tetra. Parameters are all good so I am perplexed why they are dying.. maybe the wave maker is left on at night? Im lost..
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Okay. Yeah I think most likely you have some type of bacterial infection. I know there are two strains of columnaris, one of which can kill fish overnight seemingly suddenly before you even notice symptoms: . You may want to treat the tank for columnaris. Columnaris Symptoms And Treatment | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 263058.
Do you think its that? Had no indication of white patches.. one thing I noticed is that I find them dead once the light goes on so they die between 9pm ane 4pm. Can it be maybe that the wave maker tires them out at night? Or maybe starvation? I give them small pellets not flakes.. this is my tetra..
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I doubt that would kill them. Do you see them eat? Also, when you turn the lights off, see if they are struggling. My bet is on some type of bacterial illness honestly. There are two types of columnaris; one type can kill overnight before you see any symptoms, so what you are saying is consistent with that.
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Nah very quiet tank at night relaxed fish
Took a vid.. maybe wave maker is too strong snd stressing / tiring them?
Streamable Video
The danio is swimming for dear life.. wave maker is 2500l/h in 200l tank
What do you think?
Just got up and another one down..
Closeup.. looks like no evidence showing. I even turned off the wave maker
Took a vid.. maybe wave maker is too strong snd stressing / tiring them?
Streamable Video
The danio is swimming for dear life.. wave maker is 2500l/h in 200l tank
What do you think?
Just got up and another one down..
Closeup.. looks like no evidence showing. I even turned off the wave maker
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Looking at the fish and the number of losses, it is becoming most likely that when you added the last set of livestock you accidently introduced some sort of health issue and that is now working its way through the entire stock.
Can you please do the template (copy/paste/fill) onto this thread, redo your water tests and can you confirm that your aquarium was fully cycled before stocking as this seems like its the result of a perfect storm.....not fully cycled aquarium, introduction of stock with health issues and questionable water quality
Aquatic Emergency Template | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 376562
Can you please do the template (copy/paste/fill) onto this thread, redo your water tests and can you confirm that your aquarium was fully cycled before stocking as this seems like its the result of a perfect storm.....not fully cycled aquarium, introduction of stock with health issues and questionable water quality
Aquatic Emergency Template | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 376562
Hi all, I am finding dead fish in the morning. No evidence on the fish.. please find questions answered here
Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 200L
How long has the tank been running? 2.5 months
Does it have a filter? Yes Sicce Whale 350
Does it have a heater? Yes 300W
What is the water temperature? 24c
What is the entire stocking of this tank? Cardinal Tetras, Rasboras, Galaxy Tetras, amano shrimps, 6 neocaridina shrimps 4 nirite snaild
Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
How much of the water do you change?
What do you use to treat your water?
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
50L every week. RO water and add minerals to get to Gh7 Kh4. Add iron suppliment with WC
*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
Yes
What do you use to test the water?
Api master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrate:0ppm
pH: 6.6
Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
Once daily
How much do you feed your fish?
Pinch
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Haquoss Base Minigram
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
No
Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
1month
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 4 days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Finding fish dead in the morning
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
No change
Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
Lights go off at 930pm. Fish all look ok. I wake up in the morning and find one or two dead fish. Video of them during light look healthy.
Photos:
Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 200L
How long has the tank been running? 2.5 months
Does it have a filter? Yes Sicce Whale 350
Does it have a heater? Yes 300W
What is the water temperature? 24c
What is the entire stocking of this tank? Cardinal Tetras, Rasboras, Galaxy Tetras, amano shrimps, 6 neocaridina shrimps 4 nirite snaild
Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
How much of the water do you change?
What do you use to treat your water?
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
50L every week. RO water and add minerals to get to Gh7 Kh4. Add iron suppliment with WC
*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
Yes
What do you use to test the water?
Api master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrate:0ppm
pH: 6.6
Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
Once daily
How much do you feed your fish?
Pinch
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Haquoss Base Minigram
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
No
Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
1month
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 4 days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Finding fish dead in the morning
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
No change
Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
Lights go off at 930pm. Fish all look ok. I wake up in the morning and find one or two dead fish. Video of them during light look healthy.
Photos:
Attachments
TBH.....and this is just my own opinion which will probably differ from others here....
RO systems are more frequently used on saltwater aquariums where water quality is alot harder to keep within healthy limits. Now my tap water is atrocious, I hate it and thus refuse to allow my fish to swim in something that I would not drink. All of my aquariums use bottled water from a single supplier, I buy packs of 24 x 500ml for £3 a pack. The quality of the water, the mineral make up, the pH etc always spot on cos the water comes from the same source.
I have Cardinals, Harlequins, Danio's, Rams, Neon's and Cories in my aquariums, all using normal human consumption type bottled water....not the expensive brands....and the fish are thriving, growing quickly and a 50% water change with bottled water every week without any losses.
If the recent additions have not caused an illness outbreak, then my personal suspicion goes on that RO system and the lack of nitrates cos you need nitrates in a freshwater aquarium
Is there something I can test for like imputities or plastics in the water? The RO water drips in a plastic box, maybe there is something "poisioning" the water before it gets to the aquarium? my nitrates have always been 0ppm but I thought that was a good thing since its a planted tank and shows a healthy tank?
Parameters:
Kh 4
Gh 7
Parameters:
Kh 4
Gh 7
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I assume that you are mixing the RO water with dechlorinated tap water since RO on its own is potentially fatal due to uncontrolled pH swings and the stripping of all the good stuff as well as the bad
It would be a contradiction to say that it is a healthy aquarium when fish are suffering sudden death overnight
What is actually wrong with your tap water exactly, can you run a test on it cos if its high nitrate, that can be sorted easily just by using a specific type of filter pad....same for any abnormalities, they can usually be handled by specific filter media
Please would you run a full test on your tap water, I don't think the plastic tub will be an issue...but that RO use might be, it could be overdoing the purification
Looking at the results you have high pH and nitrate in the tap water...both can be handled by filter media or buffer....but what is concerning me is the use of RO by itself.
It can be used alone but its a very fine line tween healthy and fatal and potentially difficult to get that fine line.
I am scratching my head here cos the deaths appear to be overnight which would indicate either in increase of impurity or a decrease of essential minerals etc...but at the same time your nitrates still shouldn't be zero
My chief suspect is the RO, something in the remineralisation is going off enough to cause a sudden swing that is enough to kill fish very quickly and especially overnight.
I am wondering if it is worth trying a mix of RO and treated tap water on a couple of water changes to see if things level out.....its a risky move but at the same time, it might be a risk worth taking....but that is your choice to make, not mine
This sort of issue is a process of elimination and can take a while to find the root cause.
It can be used alone but its a very fine line tween healthy and fatal and potentially difficult to get that fine line.
I am scratching my head here cos the deaths appear to be overnight which would indicate either in increase of impurity or a decrease of essential minerals etc...but at the same time your nitrates still shouldn't be zero
My chief suspect is the RO, something in the remineralisation is going off enough to cause a sudden swing that is enough to kill fish very quickly and especially overnight.
I am wondering if it is worth trying a mix of RO and treated tap water on a couple of water changes to see if things level out.....its a risky move but at the same time, it might be a risk worth taking....but that is your choice to make, not mine
This sort of issue is a process of elimination and can take a while to find the root cause.
Infections potentially is possible but the time tween introducing the latest fish and the problems seems a bit long....assuming you had no deaths or signs of trouble before the latest additions
OK......the pH.....are you able to test the aquarium pH at 8 hour intervals cos I am wondering if its swinging, especially when the fish are calmer and more static at night so the water would not be mixing and moving as much as in the daytime. Its a hunch but if the pH is unstable and is spiking or dropping, that would be fatal.
I know and understand how frustrating this all is and incredibly disheartening when fish are lost too but it really is a process of elimination. The tape water alone is a higher pH and Nitrate level to what would be universally "good" for an aquarium......and the RO pH is alot better and closer to what would be classed as the good average, but it can swing, spike and drop without warning and that is almost always fatal cos livestock need stable pH to survive and nitrates should be there too.
The only difference is that the Light and CO2 would be on and at night it will be off. CO2 goes on at 14:00 and lights go on at 16:00 and Co2 goes off at 21:00 and lights go off at 21:30.
there is a drop from 7.0-7.2 to 6.6 when CO2 is off
there is a drop from 7.0-7.2 to 6.6 when CO2 is off
A pH swing of 0.3 in either direction can cause health issues and can be potentially fatal
A rise in pH can change the water quality, especially toxicity such as ammonia spiking, if the rise is quite sudden or happens in a short space of time. Some fish types are more tolerant than others of pH swings but most can have some effect from it, not always fatally but it can happen.
In my experience most farm bred fish are very adaptable but they really must have stable pH 24/7 as it can make them quite unwell, prone to other infections or even lead to a sudden death if the pH is even slightly unstable.
This might be a useful read as well....
Signs Of Too Much CO2 In Your Aquarium
It offers advice on your CO2 timings and amounts along with all the water parameter changes it causes and livestock symptoms of trouble too
(RO, CO2 is a minefield where problems can occur very very easily even when you are being really careful and with drastic results)
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There seems to be a real link tween the RO, CO2, pH and KH with the symptoms being seen in the fish...loss of conciousness often leads to sudden death.
I feel that might be the avenue to explore. The wblink gives you a chart with the right settings etc, and I can only think if one is slightly off it will cause mayhem very quickly and if a fish has an underlying weakness, it will be affected the most and maybe not recover.
The pH is changing in both directions according to when your CO2 is on and off.....the change in pH could well be enough to tip a fish off the edge. Have a good read of that weblink as it might help get to the root cause of your problems
I hope that it does anyway cos losing fish without a visible cause is devastating and so much harder to understand and ultimately prevent.
I feel that might be the avenue to explore. The wblink gives you a chart with the right settings etc, and I can only think if one is slightly off it will cause mayhem very quickly and if a fish has an underlying weakness, it will be affected the most and maybe not recover.
The pH is changing in both directions according to when your CO2 is on and off.....the change in pH could well be enough to tip a fish off the edge. Have a good read of that weblink as it might help get to the root cause of your problems
I hope that it does anyway cos losing fish without a visible cause is devastating and so much harder to understand and ultimately prevent.
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I would try halving the dose of all nonessential additives like CO2, fertilizer, & algaecide, in case it is poisoning.
Random Great Topic!
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