Is our betta sick, scared, just getting old?

[ProfMomC]

Hi- I’m worried about my 9yo’s dear betta Orion. I’m not sure if he’s sick, just getting old, or something else entirely. Please help! Here is that “emergency” template:

Tank

What is the water volume of the tank?

5 gallons

How long has the tank been running?

3 months, but started from a 2.5 gallon tank that has been cycled and running for 20 months

Does it have a filter?

Yes

Does it have a heater?

Yes

What is the water temperature?

80-82° on the heater side, 79-80° on the opposite side.

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)

Just the one betta, Orion.

Maintenance

How often do you change the water? Weekly

How much of the water do you change? 30-50%

What do you use to treat your water? Seachum Prime

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?

Vacuum the gravel once per month or when there’s lots of detritus buildup, otherwise just do a water change

*Parameters - Very Important

Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?

Yes

What do you use to test the water?

API master test kit and AquaCare Pro 6-in-1 test strips (for chlorine, GH, & KH)

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia:

0ppm (pretty sure but check the photo)

Nitrite:

0ppm

Nitrate:

< 5ppm (somewhere between 0 and 5ppm)

pH:

8.0

Feeding

How often do you feed your fish?

2x per day, skipping 1 meal per week for fasting

How much do you feed your fish?

2-3 pellets or as much rehydrated brine shrimp as he’ll eat in a few minutes for each feeding

What brand of food do you feed your fish?

Fluval Betta Bytes and Hikari freeze-dried brine shrimp with bio-encapsulated multi-vitamins (only after rehydrating)

Do you feed frozen?

No

Do you feed freeze-dried foods?

Yes but only after soaking

Illness & Symptoms

How long have you had this fish?

19 months

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?

1 week

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?

He seems to be sleeping a lot more, and spends all his time hiding and sleeping in the dark behind/underneath the filter.

Have you started any treatment for the illness?

Just added some extra katappa leaves.

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?

No.

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?

The only difference in appearance is that there is a paler patch behind/in his gills, which I can only see when his gills move. It’s not fuzzy or anything, but kind of silvery.

He used to love sleeping in many different spots in his tank: in the roots or leaves of the various live plants in the tank, or on the betta “hammock” just under the water line, and he’d swim around the tank whenever anyone came over.

Now he just hangs out all the time behind the filter. He seems to be floating normally just below the surface where he’s hiding, though every now and then I see him lying on his side, or on a diagonal, which he has always done when he sleeps. He CAN swim fine when we coax him out or during the water change today, but he is reluctant to come out for food, and won’t swim to “hunt” pellets as they drop, like he used to; he’ll only chomp down a bite or two of rehydrated brine shrimp held in front of his face with tweezers.

The few times he has come out, he’s very skittish and gets spooked by anything, like my hand moving above the water or even the filter current, which I reduced to its lowest flow the first time that happened. I’ve also tried turning the filter off to feed him, but that doesn’t change his behavior or make him eat anymore.

And I just noticed him spook and swim further behind the filter when I shifted position after sitting still, about 2 feet from the tank!

Explain your emergency situation in detail.

(Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

This change in behavior came on pretty fast, I think after last week’s water change, when he did get spooked by a net I was using to clean out the free-floating algae I scrubbed off the plants. I’ve never seen him spook like that and swim away to hide. The nine year old said he bit their finger during the water change today, which he’s done on occasion before.

The first few feedings of the past week he came out from behind the filter but wouldn’t dive for the pellets like normal, and I saw him in other parts of the tank once or twice a day. Then he would only come out for brine shrimp. A few days ago, he stopped coming out at all so we started feeding him with the tweezers where he’s hiding back there, and we haven’t seen him anywhere else in the tank the past few days.

A few weeks ago, he did have what I think was poop hanging around for a very long time, and we’ve never seen that before.

I’ll include photos of where he’s hanging out now, showing the pale patch (image 0076), a few showing the poop (from 2/17), the whole tank set up, and the ammonia test from this afternoon. (We are almost out of ammonia test drops, so today I tried the new ones I ordered, just in case, but I can’t tell if these results are just a bit paler than the old one, or if there might be a little ammonia present.)

 

[Fishfur]

Sorry to hear about this. They’re such beautiful fish but they have their troubles, more than most fish.

He looks well enough, no clamped fins but lack of interest in food is always worrisome.

If you’ve had him 19 months that makes him approximately 25 months old, just over two years. A lot of them don’t live much longer than this, which is a shame. They are extremely inbred and that does not help.

The ammonia test looks very yellow to me, so zero.

The poop is just poop - nothing alarming there that I can see. Sometimes it takes its sweet time to break off and sink.

Can you get any live food? Adult brine shrimp perhaps, or daphnia? Black or white worms?

The erratic movement of live food is the strongest stimulant for appetite that we have so it is worth trying to see if it will tempt him out to chase the wiggly food.

Sometimes frozen food is more appealing than dry or dried - might be worth trying bloodworms. Few healthy fish can resist them.

If he continues to be difficult to tempt into eating or stops eating, there may not be much that can be done.

I’d be curious to know the GH & KH though I doubt they’ll tell me anything unusual. Your care of him seems to be excellent and it may well be that he is coming to the end of his road.

If so, I am sorry for that - it is the downside to these lovely fish that a lot of them seem not to live as long as they should do even when they get excellent care.

 

[ProfMomC]

Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response, Fishfur. I think I can pick up some frozen food and will see if I can get ahold of some live stuff—the 9yo is a bit squeamish and the fish tank is far from our kitchen so we have avoided those more high-maintenance foods. But if we can get him to perk up and eat more, it’s worth it.

The GH is 75 and the KH is 80.

Assuming he is slowing down and dying of old age, what can we expect?

Could he go on like this for days, or weeks?

Should we be ready to euthanize him or is that unlikely to be necessary?

Do we have to do anything special to make sure the tank is habitable after Orion passes?

He can’t be replaced, of course, but the possibility keeping the tank cycled and ready for a new pet might soften the blow.

Fingers crossed we get to have Orion around for a while longer. Such a sweet boy!

 

[Fishfur]

Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response, Fishfur. I think I can pick up some frozen food and will see if I can get ahold of some live stuff—the 9yo is a bit squeamish and the fish tank is far from our kitchen so we have avoided those more high-maintenance foods. But if we can get him to perk up and eat more, it’s worth it.

The GH is 75 and the KH is 80.

Assuming he is slowing down and dying of old age, what can we expect?

Could he go on like this for days, or weeks?

Should we be ready to euthanize him or is that unlikely to be necessary?

Do we have to do anything special to make sure the tank is habitable after Orion passes?

He can’t be replaced, of course, but the possibility keeping the tank cycled and ready for a new pet might soften the blow.

Fingers crossed we get to have Orion around for a while longer. Such a sweet boy!

I’d only be guessing at how things might go or in what time frame. There is no way to predict how any individual fish will carry on in this kind of situation any more than we could predict it for cats, dogs or people.

He might last for weeks eating very little or he might start refusing food altogether and in that case I don’t think it is a kindness to let them starve to death even if it seems to be their choice.

So there is a possibility that it might come to euthanasia, hard as that is. You might want to tuck a little bottle of clove oil away just in case.

There is no need for concern about a possible new fish down the road and no disinfection or any such measures need be taken though you’ll want to keep the cycle going.

I know it’s very hard on youngsters when a pet is sick or dying but life isn’t fair and they all have to find that out at some point - no matter how much a parent would like to protect them from it forever.

I still remember when our first family cat disappeared. I might have been 7 or so with my sister two years younger. Our parents told us the cat had run away. Found out some thirty years later that the cat was hit by a car and my folks buried him in the side garden.

They thought we’d be too upset if we knew he was dead but I’m not sure that thinking he ran away from us was any better. Tough call for a parent, I guess. All my ‘kids’ have 4 feet and fur or scales or fins or shells so that is one thing I haven’t had to deal with personally. But I know how much it hurts to lose any of my furkids or wet pets.

I sincerely hope he’ll perk up.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

I generally would do anything possible to get a fish to eat. Live foods if you can get them. Garlic soaked pellets if you cant.

I usually would not euthanize a fish that is still eating. Legions, contusions, advanced bent spine may be a reason to euthanize, but if the fish just stops attempting to eat, you have to make the call on your own. I would weight maybe 7-10 days of not eating or attempting to try to eat.

 

[ProfMomC]

Thank you for your compassionateand helpful responses, Fishfur and Noroomforshoe. I need to see if my LFS has live food, and they don’t open for hours. PetSmart says that they may have live ghost shrimp that are small enough for an adult male betta, but today is their last day of treating for ich, so that does not seem like a route I want to try!

If anyone has any tips (or can point me to some other posts) on how to feed live food—especially with Orion mostly holed up at the surface and out of easy reach— I’d greatly appreciate it.

I was able to get him to take a couple bites of rehydrated brine shrimp this morning. Then he got spooked to the other side of the tank when I was trying to clear out the extra, so I got a good look at him. He’s definitely sluggish after a burst of swimming across the tank, and looks pretty skinny to me, though he’s always been a very petite fish. It looks like he’s been fin nipping, too, which he hasn’t done since we first got him. I took some pictures that I’ll post here in case you all can see anything that would either change or confirm your advice.

Thanks again. We are so sad but trying to focus on making him as comfortable as possible as long as he lasts. I’ll pick up some clove oil, too. Tough but important lessons of life.

 

[Fishfur]

He is a little thin but not dangerously so. With something like daphnia, they swim all over the tank in an enticingly erratic, jerky manner.

Brine shrimp swim all over too, but they glide - no jerky moves.

If he can see them that should be enough if he’s going to respond.

Very young ghost shrimp might appeal but they are much stronger swimmers and being prey for everything, try to hide. They may not offer the stimulus that’s desired simply because of that.

If there is something like Craig’s list available, see if there are offerings on it for live fish food - might find daphnia or adult brine shrimp, maybe scuds (amphipods) which are shrimp like very small crustaceans that would provide the stimulation we want if there are enough of them. They naturally try to hide too but they move in sudden bursts which are exciting and stimulate the prey drive in fish, which is what you hope to do.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

If you can get live food, you can try frozen.
Daphnia is the best for bettas
Cyclops are a super food if the potstone has them
Bloodworms are very attractive to fish, but not necessarily very nutritious. But its still food.
Brine shrimp are another option. I would buy the flat if they have it instead of the cubes, because it would be easier to use a knife to cut a sliver to unthaw and feed.

You could also order zoo meds can of worms or can of cyclops.
Cyclops are a very healthy super food for fish. It is a tiny plankton, my fishes went after it even though i could barely see it.
When i bought the can of worms, I took the advise of someone on this sight and rinsed them in a siv before feeding.

You are going to need to freeze the xtra food, you can pour it in a plastic baggie and lay it flat to freeze it and slice off a little as needed. or use an ice cube tray or silicone candy mold.

 

[ProfMomC]

Thanks again. LFS said they don’t get any live food this time of year ‍♀️ but I will try Craig’s list and online as well as frozen stuff I can get my hands on today. Glad he doesn’t look emaciated. He IS still eating, just not that much. Hopefully something different will entice him to eat more.

 

[sunflower430]

He also looks like he's hiding in the darkest corner. Maybe dimming the lights a bit or adding more coverage might help coax him back out. You could also try feeding with lights off to see if he'll come out to eat more readily (as long as he can see the food still).

 

[ProfMomC]

He also looks like he's hiding in the darkest corner. Maybe dimming the lights a bit or adding more coverage might help coax him back out. You could also try feeding with lights off to see if he'll come out to eat more readily (as long as he can see the food still).

That is a good point. Feeding in lower light is something I hadn’t thought to try. I had been wondering, but forgot to mention, whether he might be going blind. He does seem to spook at visual stimuli, but he also doesn’t seem to be using acute vision very much—not that I’ve had that much of a chance to observe him since he’s been hiding away. Thank you!

 

[ProfMomC]

OK, so Orion is still with us, for now. I tried feeding him frozen brine shrimp, which weren’t in very big pieces but he did try to eat after. He seemed to be able to get more when I wiggled rehydrated brine shrimp right it front of his face. I turned off the light and he has been spending a little more time out from behind the filter.

But after watching him a bit more, I’m beginning to think it could be swimbladder disorder. He can swim in short, erratic, panicked bursts but as soon as he stops, he floats on his side. He seems exhausted; he even seemed to pass out and float sideways mid-chomp, with brine shrimp sticking out of his mouth! After a few moments, during which we thought he might have died, he perked up, finished swallowing, and seemed to fall asleep again. He doesn’t seem to be suffering, just really out of it; although, I think his fin nipping is coming from the frustration of not being able to control his movements.

If it is SBD, would it be worth treating? He doesn’t seem bloated, so does that mean it’s unlikely to be constipation inderkying all this, and it might be something that antibiotics could treat?