Getting desperate! constantly cloudy water

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Hi all

I'm very new to fishkeeping and I am trying constantly to achieve a perfectly clear tank but cannot seem to get there
I have a 70L freshwater tank, live plants with a sand base (thoroughly rinsed as advised on the bag)
I have my male betta, 10 Cardinal Tetras, 6 or 8 snails 3 brown corys and 3 bandit Corys
I don't know if I'm changing the water too often (once a week) and about 20% change
I use tap water conditioner and Bio Boost - I've been told that I should only be using Bio Boost at start up so this may be causing my issues?
I have constantly cloudy/murky water between white milky and a green tinge
I'm desperate to get this right and I don't know what else to do! I'm close to giving up altogether!

 

[Scotslad]

Hi Angela I can see that your light is awful bright and i can see algae on the stones there, the green tint to the water will be algae bloom, dim down the lights if you can and only have them on for 6 hours a day to start with, that'll help with the green water.
Stop using bio boost in case that is causing a bacterial bloom (doubtful but you never know) also dont clean out your filter in tap water or replace the cartridges as often as the manufacturer recommends as you are destroying your beneficial bacteria everytime you do. Only swish the filter inserts or sponge in tank water that you have removed for your water change. The milky colour might be bacterial bloom if you are over cleaning your filter.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Hi, thanks so much for replying so quickly
I guess I'm just overworking the whole system
The light isn't dimmable, I'll need to see if I can get one that does this - the light came with the tank and is attached so if I can find some sort of filter cover, like a sleeve that might work to lower the brightness. I've found that my snails do clear the algae on the stones but I do give them a scrub (in the tank water from a change)
I think I've been overloading the bacteria so it never gets a chance to cycle - I need to be patient I guess!
Anything else you can recommend please do let me know, it's not as easy as it seems eh!

 

[A201]

You can buy an aquarium light dimmer. They are usually inexpensive. The dimmer connects to the electrical light cord.

If you are using a hang on the back filter, a pre filter sponge attached to the intake tube will do wonders clearing up the tank.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

You can put layers of parchment papper between the light and the hood to dim it How long has your tank been set up? What are rests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. ? You do not need to add bio boost once the tank is cycled, and it is definitly bossible that the cloudines is coming from new tank syndrom symptoms brought on by the bio boost. Things like algae blooms and bio blooms will continue to accure. You do need to add Prime or other water dechlorinator to all new water. Unless you have well water or something.

Even when you rinse the sand as suggested it can still cloud the water for a while. A prefilter may help!

Weekly partial water changes are good, but be careful to only hover neer the sand surface, Also, dont wash the filter and filter cartriges weekly, especialy in a new tank. Benificial bacteria are developing.

 

[committeadmare]

Don't give up! You've got some good advice already. To that I'd add also skipping washing the hardscape (rocks, models) until the water clears up. It doesn't look nice but you are likely washing away part of your bacteria colony with the algae.

 

[fishthatfit]

One thing nobody has said yet: don't fight the cloudiness with extra water changes. Both of your hazes (the white milky one and the green tinge) are blooms of free-floating cells, and a 20% change removes 20% of the cells for about a day, then they double right back because the light and nutrients are still there. Keep your normal weekly 20% for the fish, but don't add extra changes trying to clear the view. It feels wrong to do less, but chasing it is what keeps people stuck for months.

If the green tinge is still there after two weeks of the reduced lighting Scotslad suggested, a full blackout finishes it off: lights off, towel or blanket over the whole tank, three full days, no peeking. Green water cells starve in the dark much faster than rooted plants suffer, so your live plants come through fine. Feed the fish lightly on day two with the cover barely lifted.

And drop the Bio Boost entirely, not just at water changes. You have live plants, an established filter, and sand full of surface area; bottled bacteria at this stage is basically feeding the milky bloom you're trying to get rid of.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

You can buy an aquarium light dimmer. They are usually inexpensive. The dimmer connects to the electrical light cord.

If you are using a hang on the back filter, a pre filter sponge attached to the intake tube will do wonders clearing up the tank.

Hi
I've ordered a dimmable light on Amazon, coming today so I can get this one off - honestly, they shouldn't be selling those or at least give advice to newbies when they do!

The filter also came with it it's a Superfish Cornerflow 400 and I've just changed the filter, ceramic and the sponge - now I'm also thinking I shouldn't have changed completely, should have just rinsed it in tank water! The store did suggest using prefilled sponge but there's no space inside for it once the above is fitted

You can put layers of parchment papper between the light and the hood to dim it How long has your tank been set up? What are rests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. ? You do not need to add bio boost once the tank is cycled, and it is definitly bossible that the cloudines is coming from new tank syndrom symptoms brought on by the bio boost. Things like algae blooms and bio blooms will continue to accure. You do need to add Prime or other water dechlorinator to all new water. Unless you have well water or something.

Even when you rinse the sand as suggested it can still cloud the water for a while. A prefilter may help!

Weekly partial water changes are good, but be careful to only hover neer the sand surface, Also, dont wash the filter and filter cartriges weekly, especialy in a new tank. Benificial bacteria are developing.

I've had it set up for about 6 weeks now and I've only just realised that bio boost is likely playing a big part in this as well as me clearing too much and too thoroughly

I've been using AquaCare Tap Water Conditioner and I bought Prime separately for once that little bottle runs out

I have some irritating hitchhiker snails which are driving me mad so I also need to set up a daily veg trap, yeah some folk don't mind them but not for me

The advice from you guys so far is fantastic, you have no idea how stressed I was getting thinking I was damaging my poor fish, that's the last thing I want so hopefully I'm on the right track now

Don't give up! You've got some good advice already. To that I'd add also skipping washing the hardscape (rocks, models) until the water clears up. It doesn't look nice but you are likely washing away part of your bacteria colony with the algae.

Thanks, I need all the help I can get right now and I agree the advice is amazing! Wish I'd found you all ages ago!

Yeah I don't touch the stones, the snails love munching on that algae!

It's certainly so far removed from keeping a wee goldfish I won from the shows (fairground) when I was a small kid on holiday in Rothesay!

One thing nobody has said yet: don't fight the cloudiness with extra water changes. Both of your hazes (the white milky one and the green tinge) are blooms of free-floating cells, and a 20% change removes 20% of the cells for about a day, then they double right back because the light and nutrients are still there. Keep your normal weekly 20% for the fish, but don't add extra changes trying to clear the view. It feels wrong to do less, but chasing it is what keeps people stuck for months.

If the green tinge is still there after two weeks of the reduced lighting Scotslad suggested, a full blackout finishes it off: lights off, towel or blanket over the whole tank, three full days, no peeking. Green water cells starve in the dark much faster than rooted plants suffer, so your live plants come through fine. Feed the fish lightly on day two with the cover barely lifted.

And drop the Bio Boost entirely, not just at water changes. You have live plants, an established filter, and sand full of surface area; bottled bacteria at this stage is basically feeding the milky bloom you're trying to get rid of.

Amazing! That makes total sense about the changes / multiplication etc Thanks so much for this extra bit of advice, hopefully it'll be gone but I'll definitely be doing a blackout if I'm still at it in a couple of weeks.

Again, so grateful for all the support, you guys are brilliant!

 

[Joshaeus]

Here's another tip, my friend...increase your biological filtration. Filters do not just house the nitrifying microbes; they also house a variety of other microbes that perform a variety of other useful functions, some of which eat free floating algae. Add more surface area to your filtration (most easily via sponge filters) and wait...it'll clear up.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Here's another tip, my friend...increase your biological filtration. Filters do not just house the nitrifying microbes; they also house a variety of other microbes that perform a variety of other useful functions, some of which eat free floating algae. Add more surface area to your filtration (most easily via sponge filters) and wait...it'll clear up.

How do I add surface area to my filtration? Apologies but I don't quite understand or know how to do this ‍ Do you mean setting up another filter and add some extra sponge or try to squeeze in the sponge to my existing filter? Total newbie question I know but I just want to make sure I understand properly and get it all correct

 

[Joshaeus]

How do I add surface area to my filtration? Apologies but I don't quite understand or know how to do this ‍ Do you mean setting up another filter and add some extra sponge or try to squeeze in the sponge to my existing filter? Total newbie question I know but I just want to make sure I understand properly and get it all correct

Add more media with a lot of surface area. 30 PPI sponge filters are the easiest way to do it, but if you are a little more DIY oriented fluidized bed media (K1, K2, K3, K+, etc) is cheaper and can outperform 30 ppi foam if fluidized (it floats, so using it in a filter that isn't a fluidized bed requires a bit more planning). Also, as long as you are willing to occasionally lightly vacuum your gravel (emphasis on occasionally! Once every few months is best), under gravel filters have a heap of surface area due to their sheer size. Conversely, many commercial "filter media" such as seachem denitrate/matrix and the various ceramic media, don't have a lot of surface area for the beneficial microbes to attach. Surface area is important because none of the beneficial microbes are free floating in the water column; they attach to surfaces and perform their work from there. All the flow in the world will not compensate for there being not enough surface area for the beneficial microbes to attach. Their functions include - in addition to oxidizing ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate - eating pathogens, eating free floating algae, eating dissolved organics and uneaten food, and in general making your water crystal clear. If you look through the short end of your tank to the other short end and the water is not crystal clear, you need more filter surface area or perhaps need more time for these microbial communities to get established.

Side note...what kind of filter(s) are you currently using? Common HOB filters do not have enough room to house the needed amount of media, in addition to their other problems (they always leave a gap big enough for fish to jump out of, they are prone to leaking, their motors frequently fail...). Canisters are big enough but are expensive and also highly prone to leaking and/or failing. Air powered filters (like most sponge and under gravel filters) cannot leak and are significantly less likely to fail, so all of my current tanks use air powered filters.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Add more media with a lot of surface area. 30 PPI sponge filters are the easiest way to do it, but if you are a little more DIY oriented fluidized bed media (K1, K2, K3, K+, etc) is cheaper and can outperform 30 ppi foam if fluidized (it floats, so using it in a filter that isn't a fluidized bed requires a bit more planning). Also, as long as you are willing to occasionally lightly vacuum your gravel (emphasis on occasionally! Once every few months is best), under gravel filters have a heap of surface area due to their sheer size. Conversely, many commercial "filter media" such as seachem denitrate/matrix and the various ceramic media, don't have a lot of surface area for the beneficial microbes to attach. Surface area is important because none of the beneficial microbes are free floating in the water column; they attach to surfaces and perform their work from there. All the flow in the world will not compensate for there being not enough surface area for the beneficial microbes to attach. Their functions include - in addition to oxidizing ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate - eating pathogens, eating free floating algae, eating dissolved organics and uneaten food, and in general making your water crystal clear. If you look through the short end of your tank to the other short end and the water is not crystal clear, you need more filter surface area or perhaps need more time for these microbial communities to get established.

Side note...what kind of filter(s) are you currently using? Common HOB filters do not have enough room to house the needed amount of media, in addition to their other problems (they always leave a gap big enough for fish to jump out of, they are prone to leaking, their motors frequently fail...). Canisters are big enough but are expensive and also highly prone to leaking and/or failing. Air powered filters (like most sponge and under gravel filters) cannot leak and are significantly less likely to fail, so all of my current tanks use air powered filters.

Sorry, I'm struggling with that - totally embarrassed to say I haven't a clue lol

I'll take a stab and ask if you mean changing out the current filter media with something denser or add a separate additional set, like ceramic rings wrapped in filter sponge and a mesh bag then leave that near the water inlet?

My current filter hangs inside the back corner with the filter media rectangular in the front and a space in the back for the heater to drop in (Superfish Cornerflow 400) and there is zero internal space to add anything so I suppose adding an extra filter set would make sense

I've got a decent gravel vacuum as well so I'll be careful not to disturb the top - I'm seeing some particles in the water so although I'm not going to touch the water, if I do the above I'm hoping it'll help trap and remove the excess

 

[Joshaeus]

Sorry, I'm struggling with that - totally embarrassed to say I haven't a clue lol

I'll take a stab and ask if you mean changing out the current filter media with something denser or add a separate additional set, like ceramic rings wrapped in filter sponge and a mesh bag then leave that near the water inlet?

My current filter hangs inside the back corner with the filter media rectangular in the front and a space in the back for the heater to drop in (Superfish Cornerflow 400) and there is zero internal space to add anything so I suppose adding an extra filter set would make sense

I've got a decent gravel vacuum as well so I'll be careful not to disturb the top - I'm seeing some particles in the water so although I'm not going to touch the water, if I do the above I'm hoping it'll help trap and remove the excess

I'd keep your current media (at least for now) and add more another filter or filters with the aforementioned media. Just vacuum part of the substrate occasionally regardless of whether or not you have an under gravel filter.

 

[ammoniaalert]

Your tank is an eco system. Every time you add something--ex...water from another tank, squeeze a filter from another tank, maybe cross use a gravel cleaner you can introduce different bacteria--- anytime you add a bacteria to your water in a while maybe up to a day or two it will cloud--why? because its effecting your eco system. Sometime you can have to much bacteria in your tank and not enough--say fish or ammonia. Water changes also effect the biome of your tank. You will want to go with one tank --theme....steam, lake, slightly acidic......trout and catfish are two different tanks....---because steam fish are not acidic fish...pick a theme and then find your fish group.......the basics...

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Took these latest levels 5 mins ago and all seem to be ok.. as far as I can tell anyways

Once the new lamp and ceramic rings for the sponge media in mesh bag all arrives then I just need to give it time - and a 3 day blackout if I'm still struggling

No water changes, no doing extra anything and don't over-feed - this is teaching me so much so thanks everyone so far, keep everything crossed!

Will keep you posted! Wish me luck!!

 

[bgarthe]

Buy a Green Killing Machine (UV light unit) to get rid of the green water. No more Bio Boost. Reduce feedings (either frequency or amount, or both). Increase filtration and do WCs of 20% every 10-14 days or so for now. Don’t give up…..we’ve all had our share of issues as well.

 

[Joshaeus]

Took these latest levels 5 mins ago and all seem to be ok.. as far as I can tell anyways

Once the new lamp and ceramic rings for the sponge media in mesh bag all arrives then I just need to give it time - and a 3 day blackout if I'm still struggling

No water changes, no doing extra anything and don't over-feed - this is teaching me so much so thanks everyone so far, keep everything crossed!

Will keep you posted! Wish me luck!!

I don't think they literally meant "no water changes" - weekly water changes are still a good idea, just don't go crazy. As someone who has numerous tanks, burnout is very definitely a possibility in this hobby. Glad to see we are able to help thus far

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Oh yeah that's what I meant, weekly water but don't give into that temptation to 'try' to help or I'll just prolong my agony! ‍
This all started with my husband saying 'I fancy getting one of those Bi-Orb things and a goldfish'
I took that an ran with it, all these fabulous plans and ideas so now it's all my responsibility!
I'm up for the challenge now I have a much MUCH better source of support and guidance, aka you guys than the multiple staff at the local aquarium store who all seem to give different answers depending on what colour the sky is that day!

 

[Noroomforshoe]

going way way back to a previouse question. You will want a 3 stage filter. Many kit tanks come with 2 stage filters. I threw that one out. I have been using marineland hang on the back filters for 20 years, I have had to replace then 2 times, I dont think that that is too bad in such a long period. The marineland filters have a lot of room to add filter media, I use 4 filter cartridges in both filters. It is a good idea to add somthing extra, it dosnt need to be fancy. Chemical free sponges from the dollar store, pillow filling, felt, craft sponge, it al houses bio bacteria. You dont need tons of extra medi, but the more you have, the saffer it is to wash/rinse when the time comes, because you can just wash some, and leave the reast.
If you have fish that might jump, plastic canvis is a great thing you can use to cover the gaps in the hood.

One more tip, if you want to get a new filter, it is safest to run the filter that is already running together for a few weeks. If you dont have roof for 2 filters, at leat use the dirty filter cartridges in the new filter. If you are switching to a completly different type of filter, squeeze the filter cartrges out into the tank, I have never done that squeezing thing, but I have read that this can work to keep the tank cycled when changing filtratration, or when starting a new tank.

 

[Fishfur]

Just curious but exactly what brand is the Bio Boost? There are several products that use this name.

I’m also curious about exactly what media the Superfish filter came with.

I didn’t see any water tests mentioned and so I was wondering if the tank was cycled before you added fish or not and whether or not you’re testing the water currently.

 

[Dechi]

The filter also came with it it's a Superfish Cornerflow 400 and I've just changed the filter, ceramic and the sponge - now I'm also thinking I shouldn't have changed completely, should have just rinsed it in tank water!

You just threw your beneficial bacteria down the drain. They live in the sponges and ceramic and also the filter media. Sponges need to be cleaned every 2-3 months(but never change them), but you don’t do them all once (you rotate) and you do it gently so you don’t kill everything. Ceramic never, ever needs to be changed or cleaned. If, after a really long time they become completely clogged, then rinse gently in tap water. The filter stuff has to be changed but it’s more economical to use filter floss then what the brands want you to buy,

Treat your sponge and ceramic as they are : the homes of the beneficial bacteria that allow your tank inhabitants to live. Without them, your fish would die.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

You just threw your beneficial bacteria down the drain. They live in the sponges and ceramic and also the filter media. Sponges need to be cleaned every 2-3 months(but never change them), but you don’t do them all once (you rotate) and you do it gently so you don’t kill everything. Ceramic never, ever needs to be changed or cleaned. If, after a really long time they become completely clogged, then rinse gently in tap water. The filter stuff has to be changed but it’s more economical to use filter floss then what the brands want you to buy,

Treat your sponge and ceramic as they are : the homes of the beneficial bacteria that allow your tank inhabitants to live. Without them, your fish would die.

Man that's so dumb of me to have done that! A very steep learning curve but not something I'll ever repeat, never again!
I'm never going to listen to workers in a store again, clearly wrong advice time and time again!

I can see now exactly where I've gone wrong and know how to put it right!
Thanks for this very grateful!

Just curious but exactly what brand is the Bio Boost? There are several products that use this name.

I’m also curious about exactly what media the Superfish filter came with.

I didn’t see any water tests mentioned and so I was wondering if the tank was cycled before you added fish or not and whether or not you’re testing the water currently.

Hi, the Bio boost is AquaCare, comes as a set of 3 including tap water conditioner and Crystal Clear (which they ((the fishkeeper store)) told me not to use and just the first two - this is whycI was using boost with conditioner over and over again
The tank was cycled prior to any fish being introduced that was about the only time it was almost perfectly clear
I do rest the water regularly every other day / daily when I'm particularly antsy about it, I've added some pics of the most recent results on another response earlier tonight but they were close to perfect - Nitrate was a little on the higher side but a small feed had been done about an hour prior and plants were skimming the surface yesterday so they'd been trimmed back
The media it came with was CornerFlow 400, I'll add some pics when posting this reply
I did buy Prime and a separate Nitrate/Nitrite conditioner but have NEVER used these as I'd been using the Aquacare stuff
There's so many on the market it's honestly numbing my brain not to mention burning a massive hole in my overdraft!
If there are brands you'd recommend (I'm in the UK) please let me know

The clearer pic of my tank was before I changed the filter media and the last pic is what I have just now

going way way back to a previouse question. You will want a 3 stage filter. Many kit tanks come with 2 stage filters. I threw that one out. I have been using marineland hang on the back filters for 20 years, I have had to replace then 2 times, I dont think that that is too bad in such a long period. The marineland filters have a lot of room to add filter media, I use 4 filter cartridges in both filters. It is a good idea to add somthing extra, it dosnt need to be fancy. Chemical free sponges from the dollar store, pillow filling, felt, craft sponge, it al houses bio bacteria. You dont need tons of extra medi, but the more you have, the saffer it is to wash/rinse when the time comes, because you can just wash some, and leave the reast.
If you have fish that might jump, plastic canvis is a great thing you can use to cover the gaps in the hood.

One more tip, if you want to get a new filter, it is safest to run the filter that is already running together for a few weeks. If you dont have roof for 2 filters, at leat use the dirty filter cartridges in the new filter. If you are switching to a completly different type of filter, squeeze the filter cartrges out into the tank, I have never done that squeezing thing, but I have read that this can work to keep the tank cycled when changing filtratration, or when starting a new tank.

I've been looking at some more filters, adding a couple of pics to see if it would be suitable

My tank has a slide/lift off glass lid, slightly smaller than the sides and sits on clips so I have a little bit of space to play with, can even leave it overhanging slightly at the front to attach an external filter or I could add an internal, whichever isn't going to cost me a fortune!

 

[Dechi]

Man that's so dumb of me to have done that!

It’s not dumb, you did not know and were mislead by the store people. It’s sad to say but a lot of them will say anything just to make you buy stuff or come back to the store.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

It’s not dumb, you did not know and were mislead by the store people. It’s sad to say but a lot of them will say anything just to make you buy stuff or come back to the store.

Yeah unfortunately it's just the way things are

From now on I can ask questions here before I jump in!

 

[Noroomforshoe]

I agree its not dumb, so many people dont know this stuff. Do you still have the cartridges and filterand stuff? The bio bacteria can servive for a long time on wet surfaces. I would just add it anywere in the tank that you can.

The penguin filter would be my choice if you are shopping.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

I agree its not dumb, so many people dont know this stuff. Do you still have the cartridges and filterand stuff? The bio bacteria can servive for a long time on wet surfaces. I would just add it anywere in the tank that you can.

The penguin filter would be my choice if you are shopping.

Yeah I put the original filter sponge back in but changed out the ceramic media - again thinking this was right so I'll just need to wait for it to sort itself and I'll look into adding another to help things along

The penguin one caught my eye as well

That £100 quid hobby which was a snip at £350 was the best £1200 quid I've ever spent! ‍♀️

 

[Fishfur]

l


Hi, the Bio boost is AquaCare, comes as a set of 3 including tap water conditioner and Crystal Clear (which they ((the fishkeeper store)) told me not to use and just the first two - this is whycI was using boost with conditioner over and over again
The tank was cycled prior to any fish being introduced that was about the only time it was almost perfectly clear
I do rest the water regularly every other day / daily when I'm particularly antsy about it, I've added some pics of the most recent results on another response earlier tonight but they were close to perfect - Nitrate was a little on the higher side but a small feed had been done about an hour prior and plants were skimming the surface yesterday so they'd been trimmed back
The media it came with was CornerFlow 400, I'll add some pics when posting this reply

Unfortunately, it’s very rare for a label to say exactly what species of bacteria are in a bottle of bacteria.

The fact that they say to use it with every water change makes me suspect it isn’t purely nitrifying bacteria. If that’s the case, then repeated use could possibly be contributing to the cloudy water issue.

Nitrifiers alone won’t contribute to clouding but many bottled bacteria products contain heterotrophs as well. It is heterotrophic bacteria that we see as the clouding.

When the numbers of heterotrophs are too high, a bacterial bloom is the result.

A different filter seems like a good idea to me.

The water test results are interesting.

Do you know how hard your water is? There is no GH (general hardness) test on the strip you’re using.

You have very low pH, lower than the test can register given that the pad is yellow and zero KH (carbonate). Is there any chance your water goes through an RO filter or perhaps a water softener?

Ammonia is not a concern with pH this low but your nitrite is more than high enough to bother fish and have serious adverse effects on some species.

Nitrite is even more toxic when pH is acidic so you need to be changing enough water to ensure it never rises higher than .25ppm.

The strip test has no pad for that level so on the strip test, it means that you can’t see any trace of pink at all on the pad.

I would be changing enough water to keep the nitrite pad white at least until you get the new filter.

I’d also consider getting a liquid reagent test for nitrite and a wide range pH test. The liquid nitrite tests will show .25ppm & the wide range pH tests read as low as 4.5 up to 9. They are more useful than the standard pH tests.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Hi
We're in Scotland so water is naturally soft unlike in the South where it is really hard and full of calcium (I've seen the state of my aunt's kettle and washing machine fill of these deposits!)

The levels for nitrate and nitrite do fluctuate slightly, depending on how tall the plants have grown and if I test after feeding so they are more than usually on the low side.

What I've noticed since I've started working on the advice so far is there is much less waste food so whether that's down to me feeding less or the Corys gobbling it up I don't know but it's definitely gone!

My new light turned up today so I've taken off that super-bright one and got this new one on a 12hr natural light setting but I still need to consider if I'm going to add a 2nd filter on a temporary basis to help clear the water up. I have filter sponge and ceramic rings which came in individual bags but there's loads in each so I'm considering using about half of whose within the sponge and bag and placing this near the intake of the current filter to help drag out the particles - would that help as well Insteadof a 2nd hang on the back or submersible filter?

The new light, fingers crossed it helps ✨️

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Would just like to recheck something please guys

If I'm adding this 2nd filter, that the advice is it's best to run that separately with water from my existing tank for a short while to start the beneficial bacteria off on the new media? I don't want to add completely new media and kick this into a worse situation!

Am I overthinking or is that right?

Thanks again folks

 

[Scotslad]

Add the new filter into the tank along with the other still going. Leave them alone for weeks/months to build up a colony of bacteria. Only clean them in tank water if the flow starts to diminish.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Just looking at the glass lid, I have so little wiggle room to add a HOB as the overhanging lip extends quite far out.. would I be ok with an internal submersible one or something that I can choose between a rainbar and a 'spout' lol anything that I can use these thousandsnof ceramic rings in tbh

Add the new filter into the tank along with the other still going. Leave them alone for weeks/months to build up a colony of bacteria. Only clean them in tank water if the flow starts to diminish.

Brill, thanks

 

[Frank the Fish guy]

Hi Angela! Your tank is in a pH crash with zero carbonate hardness (buffer). I know you cycled this tank, but now the cycle is stalled. The process of nitrification requires carbonate, but yours is all gone. And your soft water does not supply any. Luckily this is very easy to fix, and easy to maintain.

To fix, you can add standard baking soda. Add 1/4 teaspoon to raise 10 gallons by 1 degree. Shoot for a reading of KH around 5. The kits will tell you 4-8 range. I keep my tanks at 8.

To maintain you can put in some oyster shell, egg shells, or limestone rocks that all have calcium carbonate. Your fish store will have some rocks. You just need like one. This is a very slow process and wont lift you up quickly so do the baking soda first. When you do a water change you can add some baking soda to your water too using the formula. This will compensate for your naturally soft water.

Angela I have 10 aquariums that use this method. My water is also very soft and lacks carbonates.

You will find some discussion that tanks can cycle at low pH without carbonate, and that's true, but they need to start out that way. It's a different colony. Seems like your tank was cycled and then crashed.

Good luck.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Thanks for this, I'll look into sorting this asap

My brain is starting to ache lol so much to learn to have a successful and happy fish family!

I'm trying to decide which other filter to get, it's difficult as I have minimal space for HOB due to the glass lid (I considered overhanging at the front to allow the lip of the marineland Penguin 150 the space but it doesn't feel right.. the other recommendations I've been looking into is Fluval 2.. Id prefer being able to use the mountain of ceramic rings and sponge I've recently acquired and also be able to adjust the flow rate as my cornerflow 400 has a spray bar which I've tilted slightly upwards to keep the surface water moving and not disturb my betta too much.. what's your thoughts on secondary filters?

 

[Dechi]

Thanks for this, I'll look into sorting this asap

My brain is starting to ache lol so much to learn to have a successful and happy fish family!

I'm trying to decide which other filter to get, it's difficult as I have minimal space for HOB due to the glass lid (I considered overhanging at the front to allow the lip of the marineland Penguin 150 the space but it doesn't feel right.. the other recommendations I've been looking into is Fluval 2.. Id prefer being able to use the mountain of ceramic rings and sponge I've recently acquired and also be able to adjust the flow rate as my cornerflow 400 has a spray bar which I've tilted slightly upwards to keep the surface water moving and not disturb my betta too much.. what's your thoughts on secondary filters?

Tunze makes a fine internal filter. It would sit just under your lid.
This is just to show you. It’s available in North America as well.
Comline® Filter 3162 | 3162.000

 

[Frank the Fish guy]

Physical filters wont help the chemistry. You need carbonates or your cycle will remain stalled.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Thank you, luckily I always have baking soda in the kitchen so I'll do this asap

So all I can do now is wait, wish me luck!

Tunze makes a fine internal filter. It would sit just under your lid.
This is just to show you. It’s available in North America as well.

Ooh little bit out my price range but appreciate it was to show me the type etc..
I've gone with Fluval 2 for now

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Physical filters wont help the chemistry. You need carbonates or your cycle will remain stalled.

I've done the baking soda tip, have new parameter readings attached

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Really hope all this works out, the husband is now calling it swamp thing! Doesn't understand it take a wee while, nothing is instant!
Just hope I can prove him wrong!

 

[Dechi]

Really hope all this works out, the husband is now calling it swamp thing! Doesn't understand it take a wee while, nothing is instant!
Just hope I can prove him wrong!

Don’t worry, you will. We’ll help you.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Don’t worry, you will. We’ll help you.

Thank you thank you thank you! You are all honestly amazing and so generous with sharing your knowledge!

It's only been 24hrs since I added the 2nd filter, went for Fluval 2, seems decent and within my budget. I've also done the baking soda tip, I see how soft water has a knock on effect on so much, especially the Carbonate issue was a concern I didn't know much about
I gave the original filter a swish in tank water, absolutely manky!
Those little hitchhiker snails will also be on the way out hopefully, couldn't get the plastic bottle to stay down so blanched the courgette and on prongs on a couple of forks! Haha

 

[Dechi]

Thank you thank you thank you! You are all honestly amazing and so generous with sharing your knowledge!

It's only been 24hrs since I added the 2nd filter, went for Fluval 2, seems decent and within my budget. I've also done the baking soda tip, I see how soft water has a knock on effect on so much, especially the Carbonate issue was a concern I didn't know much about
I gave the original filter a swish in tank water, absolutely manky!
Those little hitchhiker snails will also be on the way out hopefully, couldn't get the plastic bottle to stay down so blanched the courgette and on prongs on a couple of forks! Haha

Maybe go sparingly with feeding foods that will decompose in the water. Just until your water clears up, feed « clean » foods. Not too much, just enough.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Maybe go sparingly with feeding foods that will decompose in the water. Just until your water clears up, feed « clean » foods. Not too much, just enough.

Yeah I'll try the veg truck once the water is sorted eh.. one thing at a time Ang

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Hey guys

Did a very small partial water change today, no more than 30% and a light sand clean

Picked up some new test strips to include GH, apart from Copper and PH being slightly off, is that to be expected with everything else I'm dealing with? Should I do another partial change or just leave it to settle with the new water for 24hrs and see what they are tomorrow?

I don't want to do too much or keep messing with it, I think the less I touch it the better it'll get?

Please have a look at the new pics and let me know any thoughts

Thanks again

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Clearer one

 

[Dechi]

You have nitrites, probably because your cycle hasn’t completely come back yet. I would recommend getting the API master test kit next time. Strips aren’t very precise.

I’m not clear on why you can’t just do a 100% WC and get rid of the problem once and for all ? I haven’t reread the whole thing but here is what I would do if I’m not missing anything :

- Change as much water as possible. Just keep enough for the fish to be submerged.
- Make sure to use dechlorinator and match temperature (cold water can male your fish ill)
- leave your substrate alone for now
- no bioboost or anything else
- leave lights off for 1-2 days
- turn down lights to 25% and increase very slowly, a little bit each week (3%-5%)
- run light for 6 jours and increase slowly each week, up to 10 hours (over 6-8 weeks at least)
- feed no more than once a day until water has been clear for a few weeks. Do not overfeed.
- feed pellets for now as flakes are more messy

eta : if you really have copper on your test, you need to find the cause and remove it.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

You have nitrites, probably because your cycle hasn’t completely come back yet. I would recommend getting the API master test kit next time. Strips aren’t very precise.

I’m not clear on why you can’t just do a 100% WC and get rid of the problem once and for all ? I haven’t reread the whole thing but here is what I would do if I’m not missing anything :

- Change as much water as possible. Just keep enough for the fish to be submerged.
- Make sure to use dechlorinator and match temperature (cold water can male your fish ill)
- leave your substrate alone for now
- no bioboost or anything else
- leave lights off for 1-2 days
- turn down lights to 25% and increase very slowly, a little bit each week (3%-5%)
- run light for 6 jours and increase slowly each week, up to 10 hours (over 6-8 weeks at least)
- feed no more than once a day until water has been clear for a few weeks. Do not overfeed.
- feed pellets for now as flakes are more messy

eta : if you really have copper on your test, you need to find the cause and remove it.

I think that cracked the back of it!

Did 80% as you mentioned, wasn't entirely sure the fish could deal with it but did exactly as you explained, and once I got the level low enough I was able to give the substrate a quick light hoover without disturbing the sand too much. If it did then small bonus to get rid of anything covered over.

watched the temp, the dechlorinator and ran the water back in slowly over the hardscape And so far so good!

I held back on some of the plants but those that went back in were swished in the tank water I removed - those hitchhiker snails will be toast soon enough!

I'm hoping I'm now on my way, learned A LOT lately so everything you guys advised as been taken on board - never have I come across a hobby more difficult to get to grips with! Haha

 

[Scotslad]

Looks good Angela, what a difference!
Is there still a hint of green in the water or is it just glare off of the beautiful green leaves of the plants.
Now most importantly do not clean the filter unless the flow is slowed down a lot.
Leave the tank to mature, just keep an eye on the water perameters.
if you must tinker you'll need to get another tank

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

Looks good Angela, what a difference!
Is there still a hint of green in the water or is it just glare off of the beautiful green leaves of the plants.
Now most importantly do not clean the filter unless the flow is slowed down a lot.
Leave the tank to mature, just keep an eye on the water perameters.
if you must tinker you'll need to get another tank

Yeah it's just the glare off the plants, definitely not any other sort of green white or anything else! Haha

I don't think the husband would be too pleased if I got another tank, got the original 30l up for sale but absolutely 100% no way would he be into that, then again, this all started cos he wanted a goldfish! Hmm...

Nah honestly, the amount of blood sweat and tears I've been through and all my own fault cos I overfed the bacteria I've definitely learned not to tinker! Haha

 

[Dechi]

It’s looking good ! Now to the maintaining part of it.

Our mottos in fish keeping : less is more, and slow and steady wins the race.

 

[AngelaBoyceBlackburn]

You have nitrites, probably because your cycle hasn’t completely come back yet. I would recommend getting the API master test kit next time. Strips aren’t very precise.

I’m not clear on why you can’t just do a 100% WC and get rid of the problem once and for all ? I haven’t reread the whole thing but here is what I would do if I’m not missing anything :

- Change as much water as possible. Just keep enough for the fish to be submerged.
- Make sure to use dechlorinator and match temperature (cold water can male your fish ill)
- leave your substrate alone for now
- no bioboost or anything else
- leave lights off for 1-2 days
- turn down lights to 25% and increase very slowly, a little bit each week (3%-5%)
- run light for 6 jours and increase slowly each week, up to 10 hours (over 6-8 weeks at least)
- feed no more than once a day until water has been clear for a few weeks. Do not overfeed.
- feed pellets for now as flakes are more messy

eta : if you really have copper on your test, you need to find the cause and remove it.

Hi Dechi

I meant to ask, regarding the copper..

(the only reason I noticed it was when it came up on the test strip) but if those strips aren't entirely accurate, should I do a different test to recheck before even thinking of adding Cuprisorb if it is present?

I don't want to tinker and go back the way again just when I'm getting somewhere