10 Gallon Tank First time Bolivian ram owner, is it safe for the lil guy?

[Fae]

I just got Bolivian rams for the first time, and I'm really excited- but it's my first time keeping any kind of cichlid. I've noticed a significant size disparity between the smallest and the largest. Here's a photo:


The two farthest to the right are almost right next to eachother, I know it looks like the smaller one is way farther back lol.

They're obviously comfortable with eachother, but I just got home from work and I noticed he was in his own corner until I fed them just now. They were the last 5 the lfs had left (reputable place, Aquarists Across Canada but I picked them up)

They are in a 10 gallon quarantine and seem happy enough so far. I was worried it would be too small for them, but luckily they don't seem to be too crazy active.

Basically, anything I should be concerned for? Are they prone to any diseases in particular or known for anything I should be watching for? I will probably do a shorter quarantine if they seem healthy but cramped since I trust the fish store to keep really good care of their stock, but idk? And will the little guy be okay or be in danger of being picked on? Any advice or wisdoms from anyone?

 

[MacZ]

You almost always have a runt in a group. That's not a problem. The specimen will just stay behind in size and likely not be partaking in any breeding activity.

10 gallon for 5 is risky business, though. Even with these fish which are known to be quite peaceful within their species for cichlid standards. Yes, it's temporary, but QTs usually have less structure and so territorial fish can become quite aggressive after the first 2 weeks.

Basically, anything I should be concerned for? Are they prone to any diseases in particular or known for anything I should be watching for?

Generally with cichlids: Look for signs of inner parasites and Camallanus. Also keep an eye out for opportunistic bacteria infections. Do NOT medicate preemptively except a dewormer, if you choose to, but that's only mandatory for wild caughts. Healthy specimens will pay you back with getting sick from preemptive treatments.

I will probably do a shorter quarantine if they seem healthy but cramped since I trust the fish store to keep really good care of their stock, but idk?

Do not shorten quarantine. Rather split the group on two QT tanks.

 

[Fae]

You almost always have a runt in a group. That's not a problem. The specimen will just stay behind in size and likely not be partaking in any breeding activity.

10 gallon for 5 is risky business, though. Even with these fish which are known to be quite peaceful within their species for cichlid standards. Yes, it's temporary, but QTs usually have less structure and so territorial fish can become quite aggressive after the first 2 weeks.


Generally with cichlids: Look for signs of inner parasites and Camallanus. Also keep an eye out for opportunistic bacteria infections. Do NOT medicate preemptively except a dewormer, if you choose to, but that's only mandatory for wild caughts. Healthy specimens will pay you back with getting sick from preemptive treatments.


Do not shorten quarantine. Rather split the group on two QT tanks.

Thanks for the response. Okay good to know it's normal to have a runt. Surprisingly they seem to get along pretty good, maybe just because they're in a new place (got them earlier today)? The little one keeps going up to a bigger one and nudging it in the side, then they go side by side and pick up sand. It was staring at one, then that one briefly locked lips with it, the smaller clearly submitted and everything was fine, then nudged it again. Normal? The one being nudged doesn't seem to react poorly to it (they sidle up to each other right after), so I'm not sure what's going on exactly.

My quarantine is just a normal tank, it was my female bettas tank who died two weeks ago. I can add more structure, but as it is it's got lots of sight breaks and whatnot.


Yes I'm in no rush to medicate, I've learned my lesson with that (thank you btw I think it was you who helped me last year with my betta flower). I just have heard cichlids are more likely to carry parasites for whatever reason, so I thought I'd get some opinions.

My lfs I think had them for quite a while, since they were on clearance sale and these were the last of them. Would they have shown signs of it already in the store by now? My lfs is very good and keeps excellent care of their fish (they also have a mandatory 4 day quarantine before they'll even sell new stock plus full refund if they get sick in the first month, and this is a place that ships across the country).

I would really prefer not to deworm them unless it's pretty much a given that all cichlids have worms. If you think it's a good idea to treat them, this is what I have on hand:
Seachem Metroplex (metronidazole)
Jungle parasite clear (praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metroinzidal, acriflavine)
Discomed (Levamisol, NACL, piperazine, magnesium sulfate, neomycin sulfate activity)
These are the extent of my options since I'm in Canada and shipping is very slow. Which would I want to use? Again don't really want to since there's plants and inverts in the tank as well, although discomed is added to food.

I don't think I'll be able to make another quarantine tank, I'm pretty much at the limit here lol. Like in an absolute emergency I can, but it would be like a 3 gallon Tupperware type thing

 

[MacZ]

Surprisingly they seem to get along pretty good, maybe just because they're in a new place (got them earlier today)?

This will change the better they acclimate.

I can add more structure, but as it is it's got lots of sight breaks and whatnot.

Maybe topple over the enlightened one.

Otherwise the behaviour doesn't say anything yet, as the fish aren't in the tank long enough for any confident interpretation. If one of the fish is always in a top corner and/or shows stress colouration, you will have to act.

Yes I'm in no rush to medicate, I've learned my lesson with that (thank you btw I think it was you who helped me last year with my betta flower)

Good, and you're welcome if that was actually the case.

I just have heard cichlids are more likely to carry parasites for whatever reason, so I thought I'd get some opinions.

Most, especially dwarf cichlids, have a clear orientation towards feeding from the ground. Especially South American dwarfs mostly belong to the Geophagini (literally: Earth eaters). So they pick at detritus and mulm on the bottom. That's normal natural behaviour, but also raises the likelihood of them getting intestinal parasites.

My lfs I think had them for quite a while, since they were on clearance sale and these were the last of them. Would they have shown signs of it already in the store by now?

If they have been there for several months that's good. Can't be 100% sure as it could take only one sick fish being added to the salestank unit. But most things should have shown already, yes.

My lfs is very good and keeps excellent care of their fish (they also have a mandatory 4 day quarantine before they'll even sell new stock plus full refund if they get sick in the first month, and this is a place that ships across the country).

Better than nothing. 4 days is not really quarantine, but rather observation phase. For sure above global average practice.

I would really prefer not to deworm them unless it's pretty much a given that all cichlids have worms.

Good decision.

If you think it's a good idea to treat them, this is what I have on hand:
Seachem Metroplex (metronidazole)
Jungle parasite clear (praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metroinzidal, acriflavine)
Discomed (Levamisol, NACL, piperazine, magnesium sulfate, neomycin sulfate activity)

IF they show signs of inner parasites and you can't ID the problem (protozoans, roundworms, tapeworms, nematodes, ciliates), the Parasite Clear would be the most likely to work. The one with Levamisol is redundant, but has a longer shelf life so keep that in reserve. Metronidazole would be rather an antibiotic or against protozoans. No effect when dealing with worms.

These are the extent of my options since I'm in Canada and shipping is very slow.

Here in Europe we have similar regulations, with the exception that we can not import. So I know the problem. Shipping is slow globally these days.

Which would I want to use? Again don't really want to since there's plants and inverts in the tank as well, although discomed is added to food.

See above. There is no need to treat unless something shows up. None of these meds are invert-safe due to what they are targeted at, but then again, why do you have other animals in your quarantine? All should be plant safe, though.

 

[Fae]

This will change the better they acclimate.

Maybe topple over the enlightened one.

Otherwise the behaviour doesn't say anything yet, as the fish aren't in the tank long enough for any confident interpretation. If one of the fish is always in a top corner and/or shows stress colouration, you will have to act.

Good, and you're welcome if that was actually the case.

Most, especially dwarf cichlids, have a clear orientation towards feeding from the ground. Especially South American dwarfs mostly belong to the Geophagini (literally: Earth eaters). So they pick at detritus and mulm on the bottom. That's normal natural behaviour, but also raises the likelihood of them getting intestinal parasites.

If they have been there for several months that's good. Can't be 100% sure as it could take only one sick fish being added to the salestank unit. But most things should have shown already, yes.

Better than nothing. 4 days is not really quarantine, but rather observation phase. For sure above global average practice.

Good decision.

IF they show signs of inner parasites and you can't ID the problem (protozoans, roundworms, tapeworms, nematodes, ciliates), the Parasite Clear would be the most likely to work. The one with Levamisol is redundant, but has a longer shelf life so keep that in reserve. Metronidazole would be rather an antibiotic or against protozoans. No effect when dealing with worms.

Here in Europe we have similar regulations, with the exception that we can not import. So I know the problem. Shipping is slow globally these days.

See above. There is no need to treat unless something shows up. None of these meds are invert-safe due to what they are targeted at, but then again, why do you have other animals in your quarantine? All should be plant safe, though.

I added some more structure and toppled the statue, since I was starting to see evidence of squabbling. Any territory disagreements seem to be quickly settled as for now, but I will continue to observe and be ready to act. It seems as though they are content with the subareas within the tank, and go out of their way to be together peacefully before remembering to squabble every so often



Their feeding habits appear to be very similar to corys, would that mean Cory's are also more prone to parasites and it's just talked about less?

I will watch for signs of parasites before making a decision. That means, the obvious worms hanging from vent, sunken belly, general decline in health. Is there any other I should know?

Yes we cannot technically import either, but I found a site where they let you anyway. As well, a lot of lfs quietly carry a few basic meds. I think the intention is just to keep it out of the major chain stores so it's not used as commonly.

After Wendy died (of trauma injury/"old" age for a betta), I just left her tank as is. There is a variety of snails and at least 3 cherry shrimp. I just left them in there so the cycle wouldn't falter, I did a couple large water changes and it was fishless for the two weeks it took me to procure the fish. I've had bad luck with quarantines in the past due to their temporary and bare bones nature not being enough to keep stress levels of the fish down, so this time I wanted to make sure the tank would be good enough and more similar to what they need in their main tank. So that's why the tank has other animals and plants, I didn't want to tear down Wendy's tank and thought it would be a good quarantine while I decide if I'm going to try to get an imbellis female for my male imbellis cassis or not

I have been waiting to get these guys for over a year now, so I am excited to finally have done it

 

[MacZ]

Their feeding habits appear to be very similar to corys, would that mean Cory's are also more prone to parasites and it's just talked about less?

The only similarity I see is the bottom orientation. Cories do not go for mulm that much, they burrow into the sand with their snouts, specifically looking for worms etc. Cichlids are more browsers. So Corydoras bypass the actual waste material if they can.

I will watch for signs of parasites before making a decision. That means, the obvious worms hanging from vent, sunken belly, general decline in health. Is there any other I should know?

Loss of appetite and white feces.

Yes we cannot technically import either, but I found a site where they let you anyway. As well, a lot of lfs quietly carry a few basic meds. I think the intention is just to keep it out of the major chain stores so it's not used as commonly.

All importers here refund the money and say they won't ship contraband. Customs are also keen on finding that stuff and then you get a short investigation followed by a fine. Not worth the trouble for me.
I can absolutely understand that with antibiotics and other harder stuff that has negative impact on captive fish populations in general by producing multiresistant bacteria etc and stuff that causes waste water to be overly toxic.