Dwarf Shrimp Brainstorming?

[AllThumbs]

I'm having problems raising shrimp. I keep buying them, and they keep disappearing one by one, or two by two.

The RCS are in a 20L w/ just two small corys and amano shrimp (I think. I haven't seen them for a few days) and snails.

The blue rili are in the 10-11G, only them, snails, and amano shrimp. The amano shrimp are doing great in there, lots of playfulness.

Aquaclear HOB for both, same exact filter bought at completely different times.

They both have plants, which, I wouldn't call "heavily planted," but there are quite a few. I keep the temp at 78F for 20L and 80F in small tall tank. I have cuttlefish bone in both. The tanks are kept clean, with the exception of some algae here and there. Parameters are perfect on both according to the API Master Kit. Our water from the tap matches the water parameters in the tank. I feed hikari crab cuisine for both, not as much in the 20L, since I am also feeding the corys. Both tanks are very established. WC every week or week and a half, usually every week. I use Stress Coat, and make sure water is the right temp. We have lime water here.

So they're dying in 2 different tanks, and I just have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I'm on my second batch of the blue ones in the 10-11 gallon (blue Neocaridina first, then the rili), which are hard to see because they're tiny, but it seems like there are fewer than I bought, but they could be in the plants. About to get the 3rd batch of RCS. The RCS did ok for a while in the 20L and even bred in there, but eventually died out. Bought 10 each time. Drip acclimation each time. Different sellers/breeders each time. (one local, rest ebay). There is one lone hitchhiking RCS in another tank that's been there I don't know how long, maybe 2 yrs.

I just don't get it. At first with the RCS I thought it might be an issue with that tank substrate or filter or something, but this is happening in 2 tanks now. I haven't read much about or tested for KH/GH.

Anyone have any idea what I could be doing wrong?

 

[Shrimp42]

Only thing I can think is a disease you aren't seeing or molting problems. I would definitely check gh.

 

[Kaisy]

Maybe they're dying and the amanos are eating them? Jumped out of tank or sucked by filter?

 

[AllThumbs]

I would definitely check gh.

Thanks, I will do that. Added the API test to my cart just now.

Maybe they're dying and the amanos are eating them? Jumped out of tank or sucked by filter?

Thanks. I got the amanos after I was losing shrimp, so they are probably eating any dead ones, for sure. The tanks have lids and both of the filters have foam firmly attached to the intake pipes. I guess a few might jump up out of the back where the filter is, but it doesn't seem like all of them would lol

 

[awilkinson871]

Cherries are really good at hiding so some could be. I will say that if some die the amanos, snails, and corys will eat them before you even realize they are dead. You really need to test your Gh and Kh to ensure they are good enough to support the calcium and molting of the shrimp. Amanos need similar but slightly different levels than cherries. Also make sure you have enough hiding place for the shrimp after molting when the shell is soft and they can easily be killed. Lastly with water changes, the temp, Gh and Kh needs to match but because of sensitivity they need small water changes- 30% or less depending on the size of the tank. Doing large water changes can shock them. Many people actually refill the water very slowly (drip method) so it can mix very slowly.

 

[Shrimp42]

Cherries are really good at hiding so some could be. I will say that if some die the amanos, snails, and corys will eat them before you even realize they are dead. You really need to test your Gh and Kh to ensure they are good enough to support the calcium and molting of the shrimp. Amanos need similar but slightly different levels than cherries. Also make sure you have enough hiding place for the shrimp after molting when the shell is soft and they can easily be killed. Lastly with water changes, the temp, Gh and Kh needs to match but because of sensitivity they need small water changes- 30% or less depending on the size of the tank. Doing large water changes can shock them. Many people actually refill the water very slowly (drip method) so it can mix very slowly.

I agree except for the water change part. If the source water matches your tank there shouldn't be an issue. I have been doin 50% water changes on my 29 gallon that has cherry shrimp and haven't lost a single shrimp. Even have done 90% before with no losses. I started with around 8 and now have 40+ adults, don't know how many babies.

 

[AllThumbs]

I agree except for the water change part. If the source water matches your tank there shouldn't be an issue. I have been doin 50% water changes on my 29 gallon that has cherry shrimp and haven't lost a single shrimp. Even have done 90% before with no losses. I started with around 8 and now have 40+ adults, don't know how many babies.

Hmm, maybe I'm doing too small WC. I do about 20-25% on those tanks. You think bigger WCs would help?

 

[Kelvin12]

Hows is your temperature. Shrimp don't like hot water like fish. Normally 24c is the recommended range for cherry etc. but I have kept mine at 26c for a few years now and they seem to be OK breeding like mad and active but I certainly wouldn't go any higher.

 

[richiep]

Don't start big water changes until you know what your doing, you can easily kill shrimp this way, I only do 15% a week
Although you say your parameters are perfect it tell us nothing and one of the really important ones is gh which you don't know,so for now we take it your parameters are not perfect and need testing
Heres an emergency template that will give us the information needed to sort things
You can cut and copy to your post to add whats needed
Close up photos as well so disease can be identified if present

*What species is your problem related to? (e.g. Red Cherry Shrimp)

Water Parameters

Please give as many as possible
PH
GH
KH
Nitrites
Nitrates
Ammonia
Copper
TDS
Temperature

Your Aquarium

Size?
How long has this tank been set up?
Are there any other inhabitants?
What is your water change schedule and%?
What do you feed and how often?
Do you add any chemicals? (water conditioner, fertiliser,meds etc)
Filtration?
Substrate?

Introduction to the Tank (if applicable)

How long has the invert been in the tank?
How did you acclimate them?

Please explain your problem with as much information as possible and include pictures if you can.

 

[Shrimp42]

Hmm, maybe I'm doing too small WC. I do about 20-25% on those tanks. You think bigger WCs would help?

That could be the case if your nitrates are building up to high levels. I just did big water changes because the tank they were in had a high bioload. I only do 30% weekly now because I added a philodendron and it has taken my nitrates to 0 unless I add fertilizer.

 

[AllThumbs]

Did a WC saturday, tested today using API kits.

My nitrates are low, somewhere between < 0 and < 5 ppm for both tanks, which is lower than they usually are.

Also for both tanks:
0 ammonia
0 nitrites
did not measure pH, doh

kh:
12 drops for 10g
23 for 20g
All of that is off the chart that comes with the test kit, so those are the # of drops.

gh:
14 (210 -320 ppm) for 10g
15 (210 -320 ppm) for 20g

temp:
79.5 for the 10g
78.4 for the 20g

Tap water was 10 (140 - 210ppm) GH and 8 (140 ppm) KH

Today after 50% WC

both tanks:
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0

KH:
9 (161 ppm) for 10g
8 (143 ppm) for 20g

GH:
12 (140 - 210ppm) for 10g
11 (140 - 210ppm) for 20g

pH
7.8 for both tanks and tap

Hope that is clear and that someone can tell me what I might be doing wrong.

 

[Shrimp42]

Did a WC saturday, tested today using API kits.

My nitrates are low, somewhere between < 0 and < 5 ppm for both tanks, which is lower than they usually are.

Also for both tanks:
0 ammonia
0 nitrites
did not measure pH, doh

kh:
12 drops for 10g
23 for 20g
All of that is off the chart that comes with the test kit, so those are the # of drops.

gh:
14 (210 -320 ppm) for 10g
15 (210 -320 ppm) for 20g

temp:
79.5 for the 10g
78.4 for the 20g

Tap water was 10 (140 - 210ppm) GH and 8 (140 ppm) KH

Today after 50% WC

both tanks:
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0

KH:
9 (161 ppm) for 10g
8 (143 ppm) for 20g

GH:
12 (140 - 210ppm) for 10g
11 (140 - 210ppm) for 20g

pH
7.8 for both tanks and tap

Hope that is clear and that someone can tell me what I might be doing wrong.

That's weird. Your gh is pretty high, but mine are kept in 12 gh with no molting problems and besides cherries can tolerate high gh. Are you actually finding the bodies or you just can't see them? I thought I lost most of my cherry shrimp until I moved some stuff around and found 30+ hiding under rocks and wood.

 

[AllThumbs]

No, I don't see their bodies, but I've bought shrimp quite a while ago that never showed up. At least after they had started breeding. Once I had some babies, they just went away, babies and adults. I blamed my crazy pleco for it, but then all my blue ones died in the other tank that has nothing but snails and amano shrimp. I got the amanos after I'd lost the first batch of blue ones. And it had been quite a while since the first batch. Got the first one for xmas and the second one a couple weeks ago. I've seen some of the new rilis here and there. So we'll see. They're tiny and I don't expect to see them until they're a little bigger. I've seen 4 so far.

I think I got the newer batch of red ones a couple years, because I had 2 big ones who hung around, I guess same sex. They were around for a long time, but they're gone now rip.


I've got a new batch of red ones coming, and I'm switching the food since that's something that both tanks have in common. I've got my fingers crossed, but at the same time, my expectations are low.

 

[MasterPython]

Is the filter intake covered by sponge or mesh?

And where are these shrimp coming from? Local store, locally bred or shipped in?

 

[AllThumbs]

Is the filter intake covered by sponge or mesh?

And where are these shrimp coming from? Local store, locally bred or shipped in?

Yep, covered by sponge.

The first ones I got were from a local breeder. After that, I've used ebay, different sellers each time. They seem to be happy and healthy when they first get here.

I do the spoon method of acclimation and they all seem to be happy for, I don't know, I guess 3 or 4 weeks, maybe longer if some are still alive in the plants. But I noticed that they just reduce in number until they are gone, though I may have a single one, or 2 that live quite a bit longer, comparatively speaking.

Hows is your temperature. Shrimp don't like hot water like fish. Normally 24c is the recommended range for cherry etc. but I have kept mine at 26c for a few years now and they seem to be OK breeding like mad and active but I certainly wouldn't go any higher.

Heya, sorry I missed your question. They are both around the temp that you use, though one is a little higher at 26.333

ack, I keep trying to post this question as a separate post, but it keeps merging.


Oh, here's a question. Is there some sort of disease or parasite that can stay in the tanks after they are gone for a while that keeps killing the new ones off?

 

[Kelvin12]

I would drop that 26.3 temp. Assuming that's celisus we are talking about here. Real pain different terms. I would drop that back slowly to 25c and see what happens. Mine got to 27c plus the other daydue to abnormal temp for this time of year. Still last of winter here in AU and wasn't expecting it. The shrimps disapeared completly and as I got it back down overnight they slowly came back out of hiding.

Another thing, your heaters aren't faulty are they and coming on and causing odd temp increases. I had this problem previouly and purchased an InkBird controller. It seems very reliable compared to the heater thermostats.

 

[AllThumbs]

I would drop that 26.3 temp. Assuming that's celisus we are talking about here. Real pain different terms. I would drop that back slowly to 25c and see what happens. Mine got to 27c plus the other daydue to abnormal temp for this time of year. Still last of winter here in AU and wasn't expecting it. The shrimps disapeared completly and as I got it back down overnight they slowly came back out of hiding.

Thanks, I will try that out and see if it helps. It seems like I turned them up because of something I read about breeding them, but I don't remember where I read that. I am reading other things right now that suggest just what you're saying, so I will back it down slowly.

Another thing, your heaters aren't faulty are they and coming on and causing odd temp increases. I had this problem previouly and purchased an InkBird controller. It seems very reliable compared to the heater thermostats.

The heaters I use seem to be stable. I test the temp pretty often, especially during this hot summer, though I know they can fail out of the blue. I did have problems with a finnex that just stopped, even though it was almost brand new. I use a chinese one or something now, and havent had probs. I have the eheim in 3 of my other tanks, and while they seem to be pretty sturdy, I just really can't adjust the temp because it's too hard and hurts my hands to try. I will check out the InkBird, though from just a glance, it looks like I'd need 2 for my shrimp tanks, which I am not down for, for the price or the clutter.

Thanks!

 

[Kelvin12]

Another thing I have found is the variation of temperatures between the top of the tank and the lower levels. I really hadn't struck this or considered it until I bought the InkBird with the two temperature sensors. I set one at the bottom and of course the other at the top. I found about 2 degrees difference and of course shrimp are mostly bottom dewellers they were in colder than recommended while the upper water was right where I was testing. This difference was mostly due to poor circulation using spray bars which I no longer use nowadays and has generally sorted the circulation problem using a straight flow from the filter or power head. Just somethig else to consider.
Its a bit of a compromise between shrimp and fish with temperatures.

 

[AllThumbs]

Another thing I have found is the variation of temperatures between the top of the tank and the lower levels. I really hadn't struck this or considered it until I bought the InkBird with the two temperature sensors. I set one at the bottom and of course the other at the top. I found about 2 degrees difference and of course shrimp are mostly bottom dewellers they were in colder than recommended while the upper water was right where I was testing. This difference was mostly due to poor circulation using spray bars which I no longer use nowadays and has generally sorted the circulation problem using a straight flow from the filter or power head. Just somethig else to consider.
Its a bit of a compromise between shrimp and fish with temperatures.

That makes sense. My 10g ish tank is tall, as if a 10g were on its side. I have a really strong filter, though, with a lot of flow, so I don't think it would be that in regards to temp. I have wondered if the flow was a problem, though, because it's a pretty big flow. But the amanos love it, of course, and if the neocaridina are able to get to a halfway decent size, they seem to like it, too. The 20g is a 20L so the heat shouldn't be an issue, but has the same amount of flow as the other (aquaclear HOBs).

What do you think?

Thanks!

 

[ruud]

I just became a member of this forum but have been in the hobby for a long time. Since day one, keeping shrimp in all my tanks. 1 tank has caridina/taiwan bees; all others have neocaridina (different sorts). My first impression on reading your case, apart from the possibility of parasites in your tank, is that you are doing too much. I do a 5% water change once every month during the hot season, and once every two months during the cold season for all my tanks... My neos are constantly berried; most offspring is eaten by fish though; so it doesn't feel like my population is growing, but there is always a shrimp population in my tanks. I hardly check my water parameters in the last couple of years, except for TDS in my caridina tank. I dont use heaters, so the temp in all my tanks fluctuate daily and annually. The temp fluctuates annually between 64 and 78. The caridinas are in my basement where the amplitude is less extreme.

Scale up your plant live and reduce your water changes, would be my advice. See to it that your tanks gets a bit dirty; I think newborns have a hard time in clean tanks.

Regarding your current; in my experience, neos do very well in current. I use aquaclear hobs as well (check out my avatar image); the water line is at the same eight as the outlet of the hobs, creating lots of surface agitation. I only have shallow tanks, so this gives sufficient current throughout the tank; if you see all of your plants moving a bit, that is what you should be after.

 

[Kelvin12]

Good advice above. I rarely do water changes as well as per the Walsted system. My tanks are all open top and I get a lot of evaporation so topping up regularly. If the circulation gets a bit much the shrimp soon find cover or quiet spots. And like Rudd is saying they are tough little critters.

 

[AllThumbs]

I just became a member of this forum but have been in the hobby for a long time. Since day one, keeping shrimp in all my tanks. 1 tank has caridina/taiwan bees; all others have neocaridina (different sorts). My first impression on reading your case, apart from the possibility of parasites in your tank, is that you are doing too much. I do a 5% water change once every month during the hot season, and once every two months during the cold season for all my tanks... My neos are constantly berried; most offspring is eaten by fish though; so it doesn't feel like my population is growing, but there is always a shrimp population in my tanks. I hardly check my water parameters in the last couple of years, except for TDS in my caridina tank. I dont use heaters, so the temp in all my tanks fluctuate daily and annually. The temp fluctuates annually between 64 and 78. The caridinas are in my basement where the amplitude is less extreme.

Scale up your plant live and reduce your water changes, would be my advice. See to it that your tanks gets a bit dirty; I think newborns have a hard time in clean tanks.

Regarding your current; in my experience, neos do very well in current. I use aquaclear hobs as well (check out my avatar image); the water line is at the same eight as the outlet of the hobs, creating lots of surface agitation. I only have shallow tanks, so this gives sufficient current throughout the tank; if you see all of your plants moving a bit, that is what you should be after.

Thanks! I have read what you said and I tried doing 10% every other week, but no joy. Then I read that I should change 50% le sigh. I will try your method for a while. Just got some new ones, so we'll see. Ew, the water is so nasty from this person and the shrimp are very big and it was shipped in a sorry state. Blah. Wish me luck.

 

[Scooptram]

How did it go AllThumbs ??

How is it going now??

Really interested to follow your story, as I was struggling myself to keep my shrimp happy and alive...

Just started a new chapter with the supply of RO water for changes, so we'll see....

Any updates for yours??

 

[AllThumbs]

How did it go AllThumbs ??

How is it going now??

Really interested to follow your story, as I was struggling myself to keep my shrimp happy and alive...

Just started a new chapter with the supply of RO water for changes, so we'll see....

Any updates for yours??

It's hard to see the blue rili, but I can count 3 at a time usually. I had 10, but I'm not too worried because there are thick plants they can hide in. The red ones look GREAT, which surprised me after how they were when they got here.

I lowered the temp like the other person said, but I'm not sure that was it because I'd had them at lower temps in the past. The only other thing that I've done is stop feeding them the calcium food, because that was a common denominator in both the tanks. I'm happy right now. Will update if there are changes or happy breeding happenings.

Do you have any in your tank yet?