Cycling, How Am I Doing?

[Nefersmum]

Ist time cycler having a wobble.

I'm 5 days in, dosing to 4ppm ammonia. Last night I had 0 nitrites, 80 nitrates and 0.5 ammonia before dosing.

Tonight's readings are nitrite 0.5, nitrate 160 and ammonia at 0.25.

I know there can be peaks and troughs but is there anything I should be doing?

 

[Donthemon]

Have you done a water change yet? You are getting close to cycled as there is obviously beneficial bacteria consuming most of the dosed ammonia.

 

[ETNsilverstar]

I'd say it looks pretty good so far, but I'd do a water change to get the nitrates down. Really high isn't a worry without fish, but if it gets too crazy high it can still stall a cycle. I have no idea what number causes a cycle stall with nitrates though.

 

[Nefersmum]

I haven't as yet. No problem with doing one in the morning though. It's hard on the nerves, isn't it?

 

[mattgirl]

I haven't as yet. No problem with doing one in the morning though. It's hard on the nerves, isn't it?

The best advice I can give you is relax and enjoy this experience. Since no fishes life is at stake you aren't going to do anything that would cause harm.

As long as you use a water conditioner in the water you are replacing during a water change and keeping the water close to the same temp you are not going to harm the bacteria you are growing in this tank.

I do suggest you go ahead and do a water change to get those nitrates down. They have been known to stall a cycle when they get too far off the chart and it sounds like yours are close to that level.

 

[Nefersmum]

The best advice I can give you is relax and enjoy this experience. Since no fishes life is at stake you aren't going to do anything that would cause harm.

As long as you use a water conditioner in the water you are replacing during a water change and keeping the water close to the same temp you are not going to harm the bacteria you are growing in this tank.

I do suggest you go ahead and do a water change to get those nitrates down. They have been known to stall a cycle when they get too far off the chart and it sounds like yours are close to that level.

thanks


Thanks, I'll do that.

 

[Nefersmum]

Once I've done the water change do I need to add more ammonia or should I leave well alone? I may not be able to get to test the water again until tomorrow night.

 

[Morpheus1967]

You are getting close to cycled as there is obviously beneficial bacteria consuming most of the dosed ammonia.

5 days in? Fastest fishless cycle in history!

OP, I would test your tap water. Did you use any type of bacteria supplement to get going? Or media from an already established filter? Having nitrates of 160 is pretty strange considering you are only 5 days in to this.

 

[Nefersmum]

It's a long story. The aquarium was previously occupied for a short time by goldies. I thought I had cycled it properly but learned after they died that I hadn't done it at all right so the fish were in it for a little while which may have kicked things off sooner. I had used a bacteria supplement when I first started up and did use media from an existing filter when we first started. I did a big old water change after the fish departed and thought I must have destroyed everything worthwhile which is why I have started again but I must have struck lucky. I will test the tap water - been meaning to do that for ages.

 

[Morpheus1967]

Ah well that makes sense then. You may very well be close. After you test your tap water, let us know the results. Would follow mattgirl 's advice from here on out, and do the water change. She got me over the hump as far as a fishless cycle was concerned as well.

 

[Nefersmum]

I have done the water change and the details this morning are nitrite 1, nitrate 160 and ammonia 1. Tap water parameters are nitrite 0.25, nitrate 80 (bit hard to read), and ammonia 0.5. I'm going to dose the ammonia once more because I shall not be able to test again until tomorrow. Hopefully I won't demolish the hard work so far.

 

[mattgirl]

Once I've done the water change do I need to add more ammonia or should I leave well alone? I may not be able to get to test the water again until tomorrow night.

Yes, go ahead an add ammonia.

I have done the water change and the details this morning are nitrite 1, nitrate 160 and ammonia 1. Tap water parameters are nitrite 0.25, nitrate 80 (bit hard to read), and ammonia 0.5. I'm going to dose the ammonia once more because I shall not be able to test again until tomorrow. Hopefully I won't demolish the hard work so far.

Water changes won't set your cycle back. The bacteria we are growing doesn't live in the water so as long as we are using a water conditioner if we have chlorine/chloramines in our source water and temp matching it water changes are going to hurt anything.

It seems water changes aren't going to get your nitrates down much if you truly do have that much in your source water. This is the highest I have seen reported. Is it at all possible for you to get water from a different source?

 

[Morpheus1967]

What test method are you using? Strips or the API Master kit?

If it's the API kit, are you really shaking nitrate bottle #2? I mean shaking it hard, smacking it on the palm of your hand? And then really shaking the test tube? For a full minute? The reason I ask is I have never seen nitrates that high straight from the tap.

 

[Nefersmum]

Yes, go ahead an add ammonia.

Water changes won't set your cycle back. The bacteria we are growing doesn't live in the water so as long as we are using a water conditioner if we have chlorine/chloramines in our source water and temp matching it water changes are going to hurt anything.

It seems water changes aren't going to get your nitrates down much if you truly do have that much in your source water. This is the highest I have seen reported. Is it at all possible for you to get water from a different source?

Unfortunately not. I have kept goldfish in water of this kind over the years. I'll re-test the tap water. I didn't have much time this morning so perhaps I did it wrong.

 

[mattgirl]

Unfortunately not. I have kept goldfish in water of this kind over the years. I'll re-test the tap water. I didn't have much time this morning so perhaps I did it wrong.

I am assuming you are not in the US. I have read of folks reporting the nitrate levels up to 40 in their tap water in the UK. It is possible that the kind of numbers you are seeing are allowed in some countries.

 

[Nefersmum]

I'm in the UK. I'll re-test the tap water. It is probably 'user error' in not giving the liquid a good knockabout.

 

[Nefersmum]

Everyone must get sick to the back teeth of these kinds of queries!

I did another retest today. The top one was done 16.04, the second tonight about 15 mins ago. I 'think' I'm going in the right direction but I can't fathom why the nitrates are still high. I did a water change yesterday morning so perhaps that's responsible for the slight reduction.

(The second test tube was actually the first test I did tonight, I decided to try a second time and ended up giving nitrate bottle no 2 a real shake up. Good job I had the curtains closed or my neighbours would have wondered what on earth I was doing prancing around my living room to the strains of the Time Warp, waving a bottle of jalope in the air!)

 

[Morpheus1967]

Why aren't the nitrate tests to the measurement line? They look to be a good 1/2" too low?

 

[EvanG]

I'm confused by your question. Nitrates are generally only reduced through water changes, unless you have a lot of fast-growing plants.

From what I can see, you had 160ppm or higher nitrates, changed an unspecified amount of water, and now have less nitrates. Nothing unusual to me, unless you did a massive water change of 80-100%.

 

[Coradee]

HI nefersmum, I’ve merged your threads. It’s easier for members following if all the information is in one place & they can see what’s already been advised.

 

[Nefersmum]

Why aren't the nitrate tests to the measurement line? They look to be a good 1/2" too low?

I was a bit over enthusiastic with the shaking I'm afraid. The caps went on firmly enough I thought and I put in exactly the right amount of water and the two chemicals.

HI nefersmum, I’ve merged your threads. It’s easier for members following if all the information is in one place & they can see what’s already been advised.

Thanks very much

Just being a nervous Nellie, I suppose, EvanG. I did a 10% water change yesterday.

 

[ETNsilverstar]

10% isn't going to do much to change readings. I'd recommend a 50% change. Have you retested your tap water?

 

[Nefersmum]

I did this morning. Not a lot it better nitrates wise.

 

[Morpheus1967]

Is that your tank water? Or tap water?

 

[Nefersmum]

Tap water would you believe

 

[ETNsilverstar]

It looks like it's probably 80. I'd start looking into RO or something, since that's pretty high.

 

[Nefersmum]

Oh poo! That's going to be expensive. Why would it be so high? I may have to turn my nice tank into gerbil housing. ☹️

 

[EvanG]

My local fish store sells fresh water for about 30 cents per gallon I think. You could call around to see what's available.

 

[SarahMcGee]

With tap water that high in nitrates your going to have a hard time keeping a healthy fish tank unfortunately. Nitrates are generally recommended to be kept under 20ppm. 80ppm nitrate won't hurt most fish in the short term but will over time. You most likely need to get a different source of water or lots of plants in that tank. I recommend hanging pothos in the tank and growing water wisteria in there.

 

[Nefersmum]

I don't know where I would find another source of water tbh. Having already spent a fortune setting up the blessed thing I'm thoroughly disheartened.

 

[ETNsilverstar]

You can look up a homemade nitrate reactor as well. Lots of floating plants will help. You could set up a bucket with water and lots of floating plants to suck up the nitrates before using it for the tank, but how long it would take to get it down to a usable level, I'm not really sure. I'd say use the water as-is for now, but look into what it would take to get an RO system or to purchase water, since those are the easiest (though more expensive) options. I can't do something like pothos in my tanks because I have cats (and based on your profile pic, I'm guessing you do too?)

 

[Nefersmum]

Yes I do - an enormous Maine ****.

 

[SarahMcGee]

I thought pothos was cat safe? Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's non toxic to cats but philodenron is toxic to cats. I agree with the floating plants. They are a bit hard to find near me and need high light I think and don't like lots of surface agitation so it can take a bit to find the sweet spot they want to grow in from what I hear but if you find it they grow like crazy and suck up nitrates well. Another thing to keep in mind is that you're going to want to prevent as much evaporation as you can because it will just concentrate everything including nitrates even more. If you can collect rain water you can use some of that but be careful and don't collect stuff coming off a roof it will have chemicals and don't add more then 10% at a time to your tank you might shock the fish with the change inn pH and hardness.

 

[ETNsilverstar]

I've heard pothos wasn't cat safe. A quick google search says the same. It'd be nice if it wasn't!

 

[Nefersmum]

Good to have a cat safe warning. Knowing my lad it would be a very expensive trip to the vet

 

[Nefersmum]

I have got in contact with Anglian Water now. I spoke with our aquarist yesterday and he was shocked when I told him of the readings. Apparently tap water in this area, although known for hard water, usually has a Nitrate of 5-10ppm max. They've asked for the details at AW and I've sent them the pix of the samples so we will see what happens.

 

[Nefersmum]

Hi,
Just an update - I have heard back from Anglian Water who told me that if the nitrates go above 50 ppm in tap water there are 'systems' in place to halt the supply. That doesn't sound terribly comforting as my testing is showing 80ppm! One of their scientists will be in touch with me on Tuesday apparently so we'll see what comes of it.

The nitrate in the tank is static at 80 ppm and doesn't seem inclined to shift. Nitrates are at 0 and ammonia keeps reducing - were it not for the blessed nitrates I would be happy as larry.


I have added some new plants, water lettuce and one whose name I can't remember. I 'm also adding moss balls and watersprite which is on order. However the aquarist recommended that I consider something like API Nitrateminus. I have a real aversion to using too many additives and I wondered what the current thinking is on this kind of thing. Is it effective?

 

[ETNsilverstar]

Hi,
Just an update - I have heard back from Anglian Water who told me that if the nitrates go above 50 ppm in tap water there are 'systems' in place to halt the supply. That doesn't sound terribly comforting as my testing is showing 80ppm! One of their scientists will be in touch with me on Tuesday apparently so we'll see what comes of it.

The nitrate in the tank is static at 80 ppm and doesn't seem inclined to shift. Nitrates are at 0 and ammonia keeps reducing - were it not for the blessed nitrates I would be happy as larry.


I have added some new plants, water lettuce and one whose name I can't remember. I 'm also adding moss balls and watersprite which is on order. However the aquarist recommended that I consider something like API Nitrateminus. I have a real aversion to using too many additives and I wondered what the current thinking is on this kind of thing. Is it effective?

I've never heard of it or used it, but it's good that they're looking into what's up with the water! Hopefully they'll be able to fix whatever's going on and you won't have to worry anymore!

 

[Nefersmum]

I hope so too. I've just tested the tap water at Mum's and her nitrates are 20 compared to the high readings of 40 - 80 at mine.

 

[ETNsilverstar]

I hope so too. I've just tested the tap water at Mum's and her nitrates are 20 compared to the high readings of 40 - 80 at mine.

Maybe worst case you could just fill up some jugs at her house? Cheaper than buying, and still better than the 80 you have at home!

 

[Nefersmum]

That was my thought. I had already ordered some water carriers.

 

[ETNsilverstar]

That was my thought. I had already ordered some water carriers.

You can use milk jugs as long as they're well-rinsed too. It's what I use for water changes because they're easier to carry upstairs than a bucket full of water. And easier to pour. lol

 

[Nefersmum]

Just heard back from the water company..

Excuses presented:-
The readings can't POSSIBLY be that high.
The water treatment plant has safeguards in place to prevent it happening and would SHUT DOWN INSTANTLY should such a thing occur
The test kits aren't all that good

With some reluctance they are coming to test the water but I'm not optimistic.

Just as a ball park what sort of money would I be paying for an RO unit to be fitted?

 

[ETNsilverstar]

Just heard back from the water company..

Excuses presented:-
The readings can't POSSIBLY be that high.
The water treatment plant has safeguards in place to prevent it happening and would SHUT DOWN INSTANTLY should such a thing occur
The test kits aren't all that good

With some reluctance they are coming to test the water but I'm not optimistic.

Just as a ball park what sort of money would I be paying for an RO unit to be fitted?

Wow, they sound lovely...

The RO unit would depend on how much water you want to process. Smaller units are available as well as whole-house systems. I'm not sure on price, but I think the small ones start at a couple hundred dollars...so probably at least 150 pounds? They may be more expensive in the UK though. Hopefully someone more local can give you an idea.

 

[Nefersmum]

Well if that don't beat all!

I put the tank light on last night ready to do yet another test to find a dozen or so tiny pin **** critters on the glass. They are so microscopic I can't be certain but I do believe we have baby snails despite the sky high nitrate readings. I moved mum and dad about 10 days ago concerned about them coming to harm during the cycling.

I knew those dirty little blighters were having sex in my nice clean water!

 

[ETNsilverstar]

Well if that don't beat all!

I put the tank light on last night ready to do yet another test to find a dozen or so tiny pin critters on the glass. They are so microscopic I can't be certain but I do believe we have baby snails despite the sky high nitrate readings. I moved mum and dad about 10 days ago concerned about them coming to harm during the cycling.

I knew those dirty little blighters were having sex in my nice clean water!

Babies adapt better to your water than adults do, so they'll probably be great! lol If they're not snails, they're probably copepods, which aren't a bad thing either.

 

[Nefersmum]

I was talking to a work mate today and she made me wonder... Is it at all possible that I have a rare dodgy bottle of nitrate tester?

 

[Morpheus1967]

I was talking to a work mate today and she made me wonder... Is it at all possible that I have a rare dodgy bottle of nitrate tester?

It's possible. Are you shaking the heck out of bottle #2? I know a lot of people skip this step, but after you add nitrate bottle #1 drops, you are supposed to shake the tube to mix the bottle one solution before adding bottle #2.

 

[AngryRainbow]

It's possible, but didn't you get a lower reading at your parents with the same test kit?

 

[Nefersmum]

Yep a bit. It wa just a thought. I have been giving bottle 2 a good ole shake. Nearly gave myself RSI