Copper dosage for columnaris

[starrynight2331]

Hi everyone,

about a month and a half ago I bought some harlequin rasboras that were carrying columnaris. My betta died from it along with some other fish. Since then I’ve set up a quarantine tank.

Right now, I have 5 harlequins, 6 Cory catfish, and 2 mystery snails. On 10-14-2020, one of the harlequins had the whitish growth on him. I removed the snails and dosed 36 drops for 29 gallons. The Cupramine instructions said 10 drops per 10.5 gallons, so I think 36 total was a good compromise if my math was right. I also removed the carbon filters and those are with the snails. As per instructions, I repeated the dose after 48 hours on 10-16-2020.

The worst harlequin has not improved, and a few days into treatment, another one showed beginnings of the white growth. That one has improved, but the worst one has not.

My question is: was I supposed to add more copper? I don’t know why they’re not improving. Unless the medication is light sensitive—I’ve had the lights on their regular schedule. A positive is that the catfish aren’t showing signs at all. I don’t know what to do from here. I’ve tried everything to eradicate this, and I’m close to just getting rid of the harlequins.

is it worth using carbon on the big tank, putting the snails back in, and putting the harlequins in the quarantine tank alone?

Thanks all.

 

[!poogs!]

The biggest issue you have is that you are using the wrong medicine to treat your fish for columnaris.

You are using a medicine that treats parasites.

Columnaris is bacterial illness.

There isn’t any point using a hospital tank for columnaris. If the bacteria is in the tank then it’s impacting all of the fish and laying dormant. Some of your fish will be infected and not be symptomatic. Stress usually activates the bacteria in a fish and causes the fish to become symptomatic. The stress can be environmental stress and not have to do with water quality, but it usually has to do with water quality or dirty water.

When treating for columnaris it is best to solve the stress problem first.

Since you are already using a seachem product I would suggest switching Seachem Kanaplex. 3 treatments every other day on the 7th day do a 50 percent water change and repeat another 3 treatments every other day followed by another 50 percent water change. No need to use carbon to remove Kanaplex. But before you use Kanaplex if you use carbon or purigen take it out the filter before treating.

If your fish already are showing symptoms euthanize them for the betterment of the entire tank. They are not likely going to survive anyways. If you want put those fish in a hospital tank and try and treat them, they are not likely to recover but it may be worth a try. Even if you use a hospital tank you still have to treat the main tank. Kanaplex is invertebrate safe, so no need to remove them from the main tank.

Lastly, and there is great debate over this...add uv sterilization to the main tank after the Kanaplex treatments and operate it on a timer 12 hours a day in perpetuity. Best thing I have ever done. I have 5 tanks and I only use uv sterilization on my 125 gallon tank because it was the only tank that would produce sick fish. Columnaris being the last fish illness I’ve had to deal with months ago since using it.

Good luck.

 

[starrynight2331]

The biggest issue you have is that you are using the wrong medicine to treat your fish for columnaris.

You are using a medicine that treats parasites.

Columnaris is bacterial illness.

There isn’t any point using a hospital take for columnaris. If the bacteria is in the tank then it’s impacting all of the fish and laying dormant. Some of your fish will be infected and not be symptomatic. Stress usually activates the bacteria in a fish and causes the fish to become symptomatic. The stress can be environmental stress and not have to do with water quality, but it usually has to do with water quality or dirty water.

When treating for columnaris it is best to solve the stress problem first.

Since you are already using a seachem product I would suggest switching Seachem Kanaplex. 3 treatments every other day on the 7th day do a 50 percent water change and repeat another 3 treatments every other day followed by another 50 percent water change. No need to use carbon to remove Kanaplex. But before you use Kanaplex if you use carbon or purigen take it out the filter before treating.

If your fish already are showing symptoms euthanize them for the betterment of the entire tank. They are not likely going to survive anyways. If you want put those fish in a hospital tank and try and treat them, they are not likely to recover but it may be worth a try. Even if you use a hospital tank you still have to treat the main tank. Kanaplex is invertebrate safe, so no need to remove them from the main tank.

Lastly, and there is great debate over this...add uv sterilization to the main tank after the Kanaplex treatments and operate it on a timer 12 hours a day in perpetuity. Best thing I have ever done. I have 5 tanks and I only use uv sterilization on my 125 gallon tank because it was the only tank that would produce sick fish. Columnaris being the last fish illness I’ve had to deal with months ago since using it.

Good luck.

I’m so confused lol. I made another post on here and everyone told me to use copper for this.

Anyway, I’ll look into Kanaplex.

Will the copper be removed with carbon alone or is there anything else I need?

I have General Cure on hand. Could I use that?

 

[!poogs!]

I’m so confused lol. I made another post on here and everyone told me to use copper for this.

Anyway, I’ll look into Kanaplex.

Will the copper be removed with carbon alone or is there anything else I need?

I have General Cure on hand. Could I use that?

Carbon will remove cupramine. But if you are really attached to your inverts and wanna make sure you get all the copper out cuprisorb works best.

If you were told to use cupramine to treat columnaris, I would say you received some bad advice, especially if you have inverts in the aquarium.

General Cure is also for parasites. So again I would say no. Columnaris, if that’s what you have,
Is not a parasite. It’s often confused as a fungus, but it’s bacterial. Kanaplex is an antibacterial and anti fungal. Because Kanaplex is fairly broad spectrum it will help clear up any secondary fungal infection cause by a bacterial lesion.

On the API side I would use furan. But I’m not a fan of it, because I find API products hard on fish. On the seachem side I would use Kanaplex. There are articles written where fish keepers have used alternating days of furan and Kanaplex for a week, water change and repeat for a week. I haven’t done this so I can’t comment. Just sharing this with you. I have used Kanaplex only and attained good results. That I can speak too.

 

[starrynight2331]

Carbon will remove cupramine. But if you are really attached to your inverts and wanna make sure you get all the copper out cuprisorb works best.

If you were told to use cupramine to treat columnaris, I would say you received some bad advice, especially if you have inverts in the aquarium.

General Cure is also for parasites. So again I would say no. Columnaris, if that’s what you have,
Is not a parasite. It’s often confused as a fungus, but it’s bacterial. Kanaplex is an antibacterial and anti fungal. Because Kanaplex is fairly broad spectrum it will help clear up any secondary fungal infection cause by a bacterial lesion.

On the API side I would use furan. But I’m not a fan of it, because I find API products hard on fish. On the seachem side I would use Kanaplex. There are articles written where fish keepers have used alternating days of furan and Kanaplex for a week, water change and repeat for a week. I haven’t done this so I can’t comment. Just sharing this with you. I have used Kanaplex only and attained good results. That I can speak too.

Alright, thank you. I had actually already used Furan. I have it on hand. Is it worth transporting all critters to the quarantine tank and using it in there again? Low on money hence the questions about alternatives.

 

[AvalancheDave]

I’m so confused lol. I made another post on here and everyone told me to use copper for this.

Anyway, I’ll look into Kanaplex.

Will the copper be removed with carbon alone or is there anything else I need?

I have General Cure on hand. Could I use that?

Kanaplex is under-dosed by 17 times so you need to use a lot more than instructed.

General Cure only treats anaerobic bacterial infections which you'll never encounter. For all practical purposes it's useless for bacterial infections in fish.

Trimethoprim (1 tablet per day for every 10 gal) is a good choice for Columnaris:

Fish Antibiotics in Capsules and Tablets

 

[CHJ]

Did your cories survive?
You can flash fry cories with copper. I accidentally ended 9 green lasers with just a brief exposure.

 

[starrynight2331]

Did your cories survive?
You can flash fry cories with copper. I accidentally ended 9 green lasers with just a brief exposure.

My cories are totally fine. Not a single casualty.

 

[!poogs!]

Alright, thank you. I had actually already used Furan. I have it on hand. Is it worth transporting all critters to the quarantine tank and using it in there again? Low on money hence the questions about alternatives.

Don’t worry about the hospital tank.

Treat the main tank with Furan if you have it.

If the fish that are showing signs of being ill don’t improve after the first treatment then euthanize them. Then do a second treatment.

Use carbon to remove at the end of the treatments.

 

[starrynight2331]

Don’t worry about the hospital tank.

Treat the main tank with Furan if you have it.

If the fish that are showing signs of being ill don’t improve after the first treatment then euthanize them. Then do a second treatment.

Use carbon to remove at the end of the treatments.

The issue is that I don’t have enough to treat the main tank (29gal) but I have plenty for the hospital tank (10gal). I don’t have any extra money to buy anything else this weekend, including copper removal or new filters. Has to wait until mid week next week.

 

[!poogs!]

The issue is that I don’t have enough to treat the main tank (29gal) but I have plenty for the hospital tank (10gal). I don’t have any extra money to buy anything else this weekend, including copper removal or new filters. Has to wait until mid week next week.

Take all the fish that are showing physical symptoms of columnaris out of the main tank. Put them in the hospital tank and treat them.

Leave the fish that look okay in the main tank.

When you get some cash together treat the main tank too.

That should be a quick fix for now and protect the healthy looking fish from the symptomatic fish.

 

[starrynight2331]

Take all the fish that are showing physical symptoms of columnaris out of the main tank. Put them in the hospital tank and treat them.

Leave the fish that look okay in the main tank.

When you get some cash together treat the main tank too.

That should be a quick fix for now and protect the healthy looking fish from the symptomatic fish.

Okay, I can work with that. Thank you.

 

[starrynight2331]

Hi—an update:

I did a 50% water change on both the 29gal and the 10gal. I put the carbon filters back into the 29gal, and put a non chemical one into the 10gal.

Both snails and one affected harlequin is in the 10gal; I administered Furan-2.

The other 4 harlequins and 6 catfish are in the 29gal with normal conditions, and none of them are showing symptoms.

What do you guys recommend from here?

I’m thinking remove the copper from the main tank ASAP, put everyone back, and let it be until I see symptoms again, and use Kanaplex if that happens. As far as I understand, columnaris is a bacteria that lives on all fish, and only breaks out in certain conditions?