Betta and crashed nitrogen cycle in a different tank..

[Jordanana]

long story short I have a betta who’s fin rot is progressing but at the moment he’s in a separated 55gal glofish tank. Before I noticed his fin rot I bought a 10 gallon kit and began a fish less nitrogen cycle. Again long story short I crashed it. So I panicked and bought a 3.5 gallon tank to use as a hospital tank while I fix the 10 gallon. I’ll be using kanaplex and stress coat

My question is how can i start the nitrogen cycle in the 3.5? I have other fish tanks but the filters aren’t compatible so I can’t use established filter media. Would I just do frequent water changes with prime and keep an eye on ammonia levels?

another question.. how would I go about fixing my crashed 10 gal cycle. The ammonia was at 1 but spiked to 2-4, nitrite went from .25 to 0 and my nitrate test is inaccurate. I bought the api master kit, I followed the instructions. Shook #2 like crazy and the tube for a minute but the test was always 180+ppm. Even in this brand new 10gal so I assumed I got a bad bottle. Today I tested a 30 gal and got a nitrate reading of 5ppm! This is the first time it’s dropped under 40-80 so I’m not sure if it’s me or a dud test. Anyway should I restart the whole cycle or add fluval bio until I see more nitrite readings. Btw I starved the bacteria…didnt over clean. I was lazy and didn’t test daily..
Thanks in advance

 

[Andres391]

Cut the amount of filter media that is needed for the new one, or carefully scoop up some gravel from an older tank with no shrimps. Buy fritz turbo booster. Cycle with pure ammonia with no scents you can get that at the cleaning section dose it according to your gallons of tank which I googled you want at least 0.5 to 1ppm of ammonia and keep it there until your nitrates and nitrates are balanced testing your water every three days or once you have nitrates and nitrates use seachem stability to speed up the process making sure that you have a steady 1ppm until the ammonia is gone then add 1ppn of ammonia again just to make sure it goes down to 0 then add a few fish at a time but make sure your doing small water changes and for the final cycle do a 50 percent water change.

long story short I have a betta who’s fin rot is progressing but at the moment he’s in a separated 55gal glofish tank. Before I noticed his fin rot I bought a 10 gallon kit and began a fish less nitrogen cycle. Again long story short I crashed it. So I panicked and bought a 3.5 gallon tank to use as a hospital tank while I fix the 10 gallon. I’ll be using kanaplex and stress coat

My question is how can i start the nitrogen cycle in the 3.5? I have other fish tanks but the filters aren’t compatible so I can’t use established filter media. Would I just do frequent water changes with prime and keep an eye on ammonia levels?

another question.. how would I go about fixing my crashed 10 gal cycle. The ammonia was at 1 but spiked to 2-4, nitrite went from .25 to 0 and my nitrate test is inaccurate. I bought the api master kit, I followed the instructions. Shook #2 like crazy and the tube for a minute but the test was always 180+ppm. Even in this brand new 10gal so I assumed I got a bad bottle. Today I tested a 30 gal and got a nitrate reading of 5ppm! This is the first time it’s dropped under 40-80 so I’m not sure if it’s me or a dud test. Anyway should I restart the whole cycle or add fluval bio until I see more nitrite readings. Btw I starved the bacteria…didnt over clean. I was lazy and didn’t test daily..
Thanks in advance

Do the same thing for the crash one keep ammonia at 1ppm add or do water changes to bring it down.

 

[mattgirl]

Welcome to Fishlore

One question I have to ask. What makes you think your cycle has crashed? Seeing the nitrites drop to zero doesn't mean a crashed cycle. We want it to drop to zero.

If you are getting different nitrate reading in other tanks it tells us your nitrate test is working as it should. I don't know why you saw 160 in a new tank.

It is really not common for a cycle to crash unless we add something that kills bacteria.

 

[Jordanana]

Cut the amount of filter media that is needed for the new one, or carefully scoop up some gravel from an older tank with no shrimps. Buy fritz turbo booster. Cycle with pure ammonia with no scents you can get that at the cleaning section dose it according to your gallons of tank which I googled you want at least 0.5 to 1ppm of ammonia and keep it there until your nitrates and nitrates are balanced testing your water every three days or once you have nitrates and nitrates use seachem stability to speed up the process making sure that you have a steady 1ppm until the ammonia is gone then add 1ppn of ammonia again just to make sure it goes down to 0 then add a few fish at a time but make sure your doing small water changes and for the final cycle do a 50 percent water change.

Do the same thing for the crash one keep ammonia at 1ppm add or do water changes to bring it down.

Thank you! I’ll definitely use the methods you recommend! I’ve been using fritz fish less fuel as my ammonia source. Should I buy a different ammonia like you suggested?

Welcome to Fishlore

One question I have to ask. What makes you think your cycle has crashed? Seeing the nitrites drop to zero doesn't mean a crashed cycle. We want it to drop to zero.

If you are getting different nitrate reading in other tanks it tells us your nitrate test is working as it should. I don't know why you saw 160 in a new tank.

It is really not common for a cycle to crash unless we add something that kills bacteria.

Thank you for the reply!
I believe it’s crashed since my nitrites dropped and my ammonia spiked to almost double what it was a couple days prior. I understand you’re supposed to see ammonia levels drop as nitrites rise, then nitrites start to drop as nitrate come in.
I believe I starved the nitrite, I let my ammonia sit at .5 for too long…I’d been busy and didn’t test regularly like I should have. So when the nitrites stopped eating/ran out of the ammonia, there was a build up of it causing a spike? That’s the only way I think it could have happened, correct me if I’m wrong!

regarding the nitrate test, when I mentioned the 5ppm reading it shocked me since as I said it’s the first time it’s read lower than 40-80ppm. yesterday I retested the tank that had 5ppm nitrate after a water change and the test spiked up to 40-80ppm again
I would think it’s accurate but it’s reading crazy high in the 10 gallon and there shouldn’t be any nitrates…I would test for nitrates in the beginning cycle of my aquarium and eventhough they should be zero it’s reading 40-80. I bought saliferts nitrate kit to compare so I’ll update you by tomorrow.

 

[mattgirl]

Thank you for the reply!
I believe it’s crashed since my nitrites dropped and my ammonia spiked to almost double what it was a couple days prior. I understand you’re supposed to see ammonia levels drop as nitrites rise, then nitrites start to drop as nitrate come in.
I believe I starved the nitrite, I let my ammonia sit at .5 for too long…I’d been busy and didn’t test regularly like I should have. So when the nitrites stopped eating/ran out of the ammonia, there was a build up of it causing a spike? That’s the only way I think it could have happened, correct me if I’m wrong!

Nitrites don't eat ammonia so ammonia isn't nitrite food. Nitrites are ammonia eating bacteria poop. You didn't starve your nitrite. The nitrites dropped because you grew enough nitrite eating bacteria to remove all of them. Nitrates are nitrite eating bacteria poop.

What is you pH reading? Quite often if it drops too low the ammonia eating bacteria goes kinds dormant. We need to see it up to at least 7. The lower it goes under that number the slower the cycle will be.

regarding the nitrate test, when I mentioned the 5ppm reading it shocked me since as I said it’s the first time it’s read lower than 40-80ppm. yesterday I retested the tank that had 5ppm nitrate after a water change and the test spiked up to 40-80ppm again
I would think it’s accurate but it’s reading crazy high in the 10 gallon and there shouldn’t be any nitrates…I would test for nitrates in the beginning cycle of my aquarium and eventhough they should be zero it’s reading 40-80. I bought saliferts nitrate kit to compare so I’ll update you by tomorrow.

Have you run the nitrate test on your tap water? You either have high nitrates in your tap water or something in the new 10 gallon is giving you strange readings.

 

[Andres391]

You don't want to over clean just water changes

Thank you! I’ll definitely use the methods you recommend! I’ve been using fritz fish less fuel as my ammonia source. Should I buy a different ammonia like you suggested?

Thank you for the reply!
I believe it’s crashed since my nitrites dropped and my ammonia spiked to almost double what it was a couple days prior. I understand you’re supposed to see ammonia levels drop as nitrites rise, then nitrites start to drop as nitrate come in.
I believe I starved the nitrite, I let my ammonia sit at .5 for too long…I’d been busy and didn’t test regularly like I should have. So when the nitrites stopped eating/ran out of the ammonia, there was a build up of it causing a spike? That’s the only way I think it could have happened, correct me if I’m wrong!

regarding the nitrate test, when I mentioned the 5ppm reading it shocked me since as I said it’s the first time it’s read lower than 40-80ppm. yesterday I retested the tank that had 5ppm nitrate after a water change and the test spiked up to 40-80ppm again
I would think it’s accurate but it’s reading crazy high in the 10 gallon and there shouldn’t be any nitrates…I would test for nitrates in the beginning cycle of my aquarium and eventhough they should be zero it’s reading 40-80. I bought saliferts nitrate kit to compare so I’ll update you by tomorrow.

I would just stay with the fritz pure ammonia is cheap but maybe fritz is better.

 

[Jordanana]

Nitrites don't eat ammonia so ammonia isn't nitrite food. Nitrites are ammonia eating bacteria poop. You didn't starve your nitrite. The nitrites dropped because you grew enough nitrite eating bacteria to remove all of them. Nitrates are nitrite eating bacteria poop.

What is you pH reading? Quite often if it drops too low the ammonia eating bacteria goes kinds dormant. We need to see it up to at least 7. The lower it goes under that number the slower the cycle will be.

Have you run the nitrate test on your tap water? You either have high nitrates in your tap water or something in the new 10 gallon is giving you strange readings.

Yes sorry I definitely used the wrong wording. I am aware of the nitrifying bacteria oxidizing the ammonia to nitrite, etc. I did research when I started the cycle so I thought I’d know what to expect.
I understand the tank creating enough nitrifying bacteria that it would eventually drop however why would my ammonia spike? I thought the ammonia, nitrite slowly decrease as more nitrifying bacteria established.

My Ph has read a steady 7.5 throughout the cycle. I haven’t tested my tap water…since I’m almost 99% sure it’ll read 40-80 but I will tomorrow morning. I looked at my city’s water quality report, sadly they only have last years report but in 2020 the nitrates read .75-1.1ppm and we have moderately hard water

I’m not sure if I mentioned it before but Ive been using fluval bio enhancer.

What is you pH reading? Quite often if it drops too low the ammonia eating bacteria goes kinds dormant. We need to see it up to at least 7. The lower it goes under that number the slower the cycle will be.

Have you run the nitrate test on your tap water? You either have high nitrates in your tap water or something in the new 10 gallon is giving you strange readings.

Nitrites don't eat ammonia so ammonia isn't nitrite food. Nitrites are ammonia eating bacteria poop. You didn't starve your nitrite. The nitrites dropped because you grew enough nitrite eating bacteria to remove all of them. Nitrates are nitrite eating bacteria poop.

What is you pH reading? Quite often if it drops too low the ammonia eating bacteria goes kinds dormant. We need to see it up to at least 7. The lower it goes under that number the slower the cycle will be.

Have you run the nitrate test on your tap water? You either have high nitrates in your tap water or something in the new 10 gallon is giving you strange readings.

You don't want to over clean just water changes

I would just stay with the fritz pure ammonia is cheap but maybe fritz is better.

Yes I made sure to not over clean. I would base my water changes on the test results. For example, in the beginning my ammonia was high at 4ppm so I did 25% changes every week until it dropped to 2-3. I was scared of over cleaning so I tried to leave the tank alone other than testing/adding bio enhancer. I switched to 10-20% changes every couple of weeks give or take.

thank you, I’ll stick with my fritz fuel then lol

 

[mattgirl]

Yes I made sure to not over clean. I would base my water changes on the test results. For example, in the beginning my ammonia was high at 4ppm so I did 25% changes every week until it dropped to 2-3. I was scared of over cleaning so I tried to leave the tank alone other than testing/adding bio enhancer. I switched to 10-20% changes every couple of weeks give or take.

Are we talking about the 10 gallon you are fishless cycling or the 3.5 you have your betta in. It is difficult for me to keep track when we are talking about more than one tank. If we are talking about fishless cycling the 10 gallon, water changes don't need to be done on a regular basis. We just need to add ammonia as needed and give the bacteria time to grow.

I really have no idea as to what is going on with your nitrate test. What you are experiencing is highly unusual. Normally if the test isn't done correctly the number is low. I can't remember ever seeing one read high like what you are seeing.

 

[Jordanana]

Are we talking about the 10 gallon you are fishless cycling or the 3.5 you have your betta in. It is difficult for me to keep track when we are talking about more than one tank. If we are talking about fishless cycling the 10 gallon, water changes don't need to be done on a regular basis. We just need to add ammonia as needed and give the bacteria time to grow.

I really have no idea as to what is going on with your nitrate test. What you are experiencing is highly unusual. Normally if the test isn't done correctly the number is low. I can't remember ever seeing one read high like what you are seeing.

Yes im fishless cycling the 10 gallon, I totally understand the confusion hah. The 3.5 is what I’ll use as a hospital tank for fin rot until the 10gal is ready. Okay thank you, I’ll stop with the water changes. For the 10 gal do I just add bottled bacteria until I see my nitrites come back? I’ve heard some people fully restart their cycle and others don’t have to.

for the 3.5gal should I do a fishless-cycle and hope it establishes faster than the 10 gallon? I’ve also seen people just keep an eye on ammonia levels and water change/bottled bacteria. For fish-in cycling. In your opinion which would be the best in my situation? I’ve asked before but I wanna make sure I interpreted it right.

I agree, I tried to find people with the same issue but as you said most people got false low readings. My salifert kit should come in the mail today so I’ll be able to compare the tests.

 

[mattgirl]

Yes im fishless cycling the 10 gallon, I totally understand the confusion hah. The 3.5 is what I’ll use as a hospital tank for fin rot until the 10gal is ready. Okay thank you, I’ll stop with the water changes. For the 10 gal do I just add bottled bacteria until I see my nitrites come back? I’ve heard some people fully restart their cycle and others don’t have to.

What is the ammonia level in the 10 gallon? Ammonia is the first step in cycling a tank. I recommend you get it up to about 2ppm. Once done you can add bottled bacteria or just let the bacteria naturally grow. If you have another tank (the 30 gallon?) already cycled moving some bacteria from it to the 10 gallon will work better than anything that comes in a bottle. Anything you can move from the 30 gallon over to the 10 gallon will help but a piece of media from the filter will work best. It will have the most bacteria on it.

Once the ammonia you've added gets down to or close to zero get it back up to 2ppm. Nitrites don't normally show up as soon as ammonia starts going down so just keep adding ammonia as needed. In normal circumstances the nitrites will spike. Adding media from a cycled tank and sometimes when adding bottled bacteria the cycle skips the nitrite spike. In that case we will know the cycle is moving forward when ammonia goes down and nitrates gradually go up.

We really need to get a handle on why you are getting such odd nitrate readings though. If you are seeing them when they shouldn't be there we can't go by seeing nitrates to know where we are in the cycle. We will know the cycle is complete when we can add 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later we see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. This normally takes at least 4 weeks. 6 weeks is more realistic for a fishless cycle though.

for the 3.5gal should I do a fishless-cycle and hope it establishes faster than the 10 gallon? I’ve also seen people just keep an eye on ammonia levels and water change/bottled bacteria. For fish-in cycling. In your opinion which would be the best in my situation? I’ve asked before but I wanna make sure I interpreted it right.

If your Betta is in this tank right now you are basically doing a fish in cycle. We cycle a tank to remove the ammonia the fish are producing. Water changes will do the same thing. Since this fish has health issues I highly recommend you keep an eye on the ammonia. If you get a reading of any at all do a water change to remove it. As long as you remove the ammonia with water changes we don't have to be concerned with whether or not this tank is cycling. Right now the most important thing is keeping him safe from the damaging affects of ammonia.

I agree, I tried to find people with the same issue but as you said most people got false low readings. My salifert kit should come in the mail today so I’ll be able to compare the tests.

Hopefully the new test will give us some accurate readings so we can know where we stand.

 

[Jordanana]

What is the ammonia level in the 10 gallon? Ammonia is the first step in cycling a tank. I recommend you get it up to about 2ppm. Once done you can add bottled bacteria or just let the bacteria naturally grow. If you have another tank (the 30 gallon?) already cycled moving some bacteria from it to the 10 gallon will work better than anything that comes in a bottle. Anything you can move from the 30 gallon over to the 10 gallon will help but a piece of media from the filter will work best. It will have the most bacteria on it.

Once the ammonia you've added gets down to or close to zero get it back up to 2ppm. Nitrites don't normally show up as soon as ammonia starts going down so just keep adding ammonia as needed. In normal circumstances the nitrites will spike. Adding media from a cycled tank and sometimes when adding bottled bacteria the cycle skips the nitrite spike. In that case we will know the cycle is moving forward when ammonia goes down and nitrates gradually go up.

We really need to get a handle on why you are getting such odd nitrate readings though. If you are seeing them when they shouldn't be there we can't go by seeing nitrates to know where we are in the cycle. We will know the cycle is complete when we can add 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later we see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. This normally takes at least 4 weeks. 6 weeks is more realistic for a fishless cycle though.

If your Betta is in this tank right now you are basically doing a fish in cycle. We cycle a tank to remove the ammonia the fish are producing. Water changes will do the same thing. Since this fish has health issues I highly recommend you keep an eye on the ammonia. If you get a reading of any at all do a water change to remove it. As long as you remove the ammonia with water changes we don't have to be concerned with whether or not this tank is cycling. Right now the most important thing is keeping him safe from the damaging affects of ammonia.

Hopefully the new test will give us some accurate readings so we can know where we stand.

Sorry for the late reply hah but I come with results! I spent a couple hours today testing the tanks and it was quite a ride. I’ll include a list of the readings I took. I have pictures of the tests themselves too. The red marker is nitrates. I tried to color code so itd be easier to follow

I tested the 30 gal, my 10 gal, the tap water I use and I tested the 55 for nitrites just to make sure my nitrite test is reading correctly since the nitrite readings in the 30 gallon are very high. While doing a 25% water change on the 30 gal I found a piece of uneaten food from yesterday. It was hidden very well so I didn’t notice it till I did the water change. I added aquarium salt and double dosed prime to help get the nitrites back to zero. (I’m assuming the decomposing food is what disrupted the cycle)

I’m very confused why api would vary from 5ppm to 40-80. I took every test the same way, when I would re-test(liquid still in tube) I’d rinse it out with tap water. Then I’d rinse the tube and my dropper with the water I’m testing. I made sure no tap water was remaining. I used a timer on my phone for consistency and followed all instructions that came with the tests. I’ll take my water to my LFS soon and have them test it.

reguarding the betta, he’s in the 55 gallon already cycled tank. As I said earlier I bought the 10 gallon for him and started the fish-less cycle over a month ago. I was seeing my ammonia slowly drop from 2-4ppm and within a few weeks I saw nitrites appear. The ammonia went down to around .5, I added more ammonia when I noticed it. Then soon after my nitrites dropped to 0 and have been testing 0 since. Sorry hah I feel like I made this super confusing!

I’m going to set the 3.5 gallon hospital tank up tonight and let it run with cycled filter media for a day before I transfer the betta. I’ll then use your advice of water changes when I see any ammonia. I’m going to use kanaplex for his fin rot, would prime, stress coat, or aquarium salt help? I’ll do some more research on it tonight as well. Thank you!

What is the ammonia level in the 10 gallon? Ammonia is the first step in cycling a tank. I recommend you get it up to about 2ppm. Once done you can add bottled bacteria or just let the bacteria naturally grow. If you have another tank (the 30 gallon?) already cycled moving some bacteria from it to the 10 gallon will work better than anything that comes in a bottle. Anything you can move from the 30 gallon over to the 10 gallon will help but a piece of media from the filter will work best. It will have the most bacteria on it.

Once the ammonia you've added gets down to or close to zero get it back up to 2ppm. Nitrites don't normally show up as soon as ammonia starts going down so just keep adding ammonia as needed. In normal circumstances the nitrites will spike. Adding media from a cycled tank and sometimes when adding bottled bacteria the cycle skips the nitrite spike. In that case we will know the cycle is moving forward when ammonia goes down and nitrates gradually go up.

We really need to get a handle on why you are getting such odd nitrate readings though. If you are seeing them when they shouldn't be there we can't go by seeing nitrates to know where we are in the cycle. We will know the cycle is complete when we can add 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later we see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. This normally takes at least 4 weeks. 6 weeks is more realistic for a fishless cycle though.

If your Betta is in this tank right now you are basically doing a fish in cycle. We cycle a tank to remove the ammonia the fish are producing. Water changes will do the same thing. Since this fish has health issues I highly recommend you keep an eye on the ammonia. If you get a reading of any at all do a water change to remove it. As long as you remove the ammonia with water changes we don't have to be concerned with whether or not this tank is cycling. Right now the most important thing is keeping him safe from the damaging affects of ammonia.

Hopefully the new test will give us some accurate readings so we can know where we stand.

The darker 40-80 is the 10 gallon. The 5-10 is the 30 gallon. I read the tests with the tube a finger width above the white paper, not touching it. As you’ll see in the list of results, api went from reading 5-10 to 40-80 again. As I said earlier I didn’t change anything about how I tested the water, each test followed the same steps yet I still get weird results.
The salifert (pink) is two separate tests on the 10 gallon. The green ammonia test is from the 10 gallon as well. Hope the pictures help and I didn’t make you too confused!

 

[mattgirl]

I’m going to set the 3.5 gallon hospital tank up tonight and let it run with cycled filter media for a day before I transfer the betta. I’ll then use your advice of water changes when I see any ammonia. I’m going to use kanaplex for his fin rot, would prime, stress coat, or aquarium salt help? I’ll do some more research on it tonight as well. Thank you!

This sounds like a plan. I've never used any kind of medications so don't know anything about the one you are going to use. If the fin rot has just started, fresh clean water may be all that is needed at this point. Keep it as clean and ammonia free as you can and add Prime with each water change. Personally the only thing I would add to the tank to begin with is Prime but only along with water changes.

If I wasn't seeing any improvement or if it seems to be getting worse.after a week or so it may be time to add a very low amount of aquarium salt. I would start out with half of what's recommended. Give the salt a chance to work. If after another week or so you are seeing no improvement it may be time to get the salt out of there and then use the medication as recommended in the instructions.

We want to give each thing we do time to work.

BTW: I have no idea as to what is going on with your nitrate test. Almost sounds like there may be something wrong with the testing solution.

 

[Jordanana]

This sounds like a plan. I've never used any kind of medications so don't know anything about the one you are going to use. If the fin rot has just started, fresh clean water may be all that is needed at this point. Keep it as clean and ammonia free as you can and add Prime with each water change. Personally the only thing I would add to the tank to begin with is Prime but only along with water changes.

If I wasn't seeing any improvement or if it seems to be getting worse.after a week or so it may be time to add a very low amount of aquarium salt. I would start out with half of what's recommended. Give the salt a chance to work. If after another week or so you are seeing no improvement it may be time to get the salt out of there and then use the medication as recommended in the instructions.

We want to give each thing we do time to work.

BTW: I have no idea as to what is going on with your nitrate test. Almost sounds like there may be something wrong with the testing solution.

Awesome thank you! When I first noticed the fin rot it wasn’t progressing any, if at all so I kept his water clean and added aquarium salt. Recently it’s started to spread again and I’m almost positive I know why but I won’t bore you with that. I’ll start with small amounts of aquarium salt and If worst comes to worst I already have the meds on hand.

that’s what I was thinking too, my ammonia test works pretty well so for now ill be able to monitor the ammonia levels until I can speak to an aquarium shop owner. I appreciate you taking the time to help me, I should have this from here! (If not you’ll definitely see me on here again)

 

[Jordanana]

Hello again! So I've been trying to get my 3.5 gallon tank ready for my betta fish. When i first set the tank up i grabbed a sponge from a fluval 106 canister filter and just set it in the tank since i have a sponge filter. It was full of good bacteria and the next day when i removed it, the tank showed ammonia and nitrite. After removing the sponge I've been doing 50-75% water changes trying to get the levels to zero before adding the betta. I've gotten the ammonia to 0-.25 but my nitrites wont budge. They've been sitting at 2ppm for days even after my 50-75% water changes. I'm using prime when adding new water and I use fluval bottled bacteria. Am i doing something wrong or is this a normal nitrite spike? I really need to get the betta in the tank and treated!