Be Careful when using Flourish Excel!!

[Jamelie]

You are overdosing!!!! I just bought a bottle for my tank and it says on it 5ml for every 10 gallon for the FIRST dose, then 1ml per 10 gallon. This stuff is actually used in a different form to sterilize medical equipment. This is what is killing your fish! 15ml for a 30 gallon is 5 times the recommended dose! Considering this stuff is basically a poison it can and will kill fish. 3ml is the correct dose for your tank (according to my bottle). It is poison if in too high of a quantity but if in a lower amount it will kill off some algae and break down into CO2.

What they said lol

 

[Dave125g]

LOL Do you remember not that long ago when someone was accusing me of being a Seachem rep? LOL some people can't stand long running success with the Seachem line

Yeah lol I don't get the haters. All I use is seachem and I have success with there line.

 

[83jase]

Od I use excel daily aswell with no Ill effects

 

[DoubleDutch]

Yeah lol I don't get the haters. All I use is seachem and I have success with there line.

But not all out of that line has to be the perfect match for everyone / for every kind of set up or fish I think Dave.

One fish will not have any issue with it, but others probably (will) have with the same use / dosage.

 

[Dave125g]

But not all out of that line has to be the perfect match for everyone / for every kind of set up or fish I think Dave.

One fish will not have any issue with it, but others probably (will) have with the same use / dosage.

True. Like I said earlier I only use seachem root tabs and excel (way under dosed). Comprehensive I don't use.

 

[AngelTheKat1322]

I wanted to add this because I see a lot of confusion as to what might be the cause...
some betta fish and other fish are allergic to fertilizers and will die from them or get extremely sick if they’re put in the water I have a friend who found that out the hard way almost lost her betta.. maybe your betta or other fish are allergic to the fertilizers

 

[Kent H]

nil rare I believe you may be misunderstanding the directions. One cap full for 10 gallons is the initial dose (very first). After that you're only going to dose that much after a heavy water change. Your continuous dosing should only be half a capful daily or every other day on a 30-gallon tank. Overdosing Excel is toxic and can kill your stock just like flourish can if you dose too much. On my bottle of excel the instructions specifically state to use one cap full per 50 gallons daily or every other day after initial dose. I've been using a little less than half a capful daily with no ill effects on my 30 gallon. I have red cherry shrimp, Amano shrimp, four different types of snails and fish and have not had any issues. I dose Excel daily unless it's a day that I need to dose flourish then I skipped the Excel that day. I dose flourish twice a week. Hope this helps. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[BettaNovice101]

I have some flame moss which was not growing properly. Went to store they advice flourish excel and told me if you don't want to add CO2 this would help your plants grow better. I have added them based on schedule. 2 fish died 3 days after adding this solution. I thought to myself maybe that is not the reason but still titred down and stopped to add it for a while out of fear of losing more. Then again for experiment I restarted adding and again then the next day 2 more died, I stopped completely. Looking around on yotube and forums everyone was happy with the results. I got stupid again and added just a capful (which is 5 ml) to my 30 gallon. Today I found another fish dead :| Honestly I now believe 100% that this stupid solution is causing my fish to die. I just wanted to tell other people to be cautious before adding this to your tank.

I used it at least twice, experimenting the same as you. My betta got sick. Cleaned the tank, waited over a couple of months, put a drop or two in tank water and added the water to the 20 gallon tank, and again he got sick. I have stopped using it also. Perhaps my water has enough for the plants and I'm over supplementing it and the fish doesn't need to breathe it in. So I stopped using it completely.

 

[Crazycoryfishlady]

LOL Do you remember not that long ago when someone was accusing me of being a Seachem rep? LOL some people can't stand long running success with the Seachem line

I know quite a few of us have been told we're reps, or asked if we are just secret product pushers
I think AJE was accused once too?

I love it.
I'm just a normal young adult girl who recently started fish keeping again, but it feels nice someone thinks I make a lot of money at a very successful company
I wish I was seachem regional manager lol

 

[BettaNovice101]

But during the time that I had not used the solution I did not lose any fish. Every time I used it my fish died next day I don't think its a coincidence

I talked with the manufacturer technician of one of my supplements, and they warned me that using the chlorine neutralizer and excel or any other item can deplete the tank of oxygen. They said to separate the two doses from each other by at least 30 minutes. So I thought my betta might be sensitive to that, and tried it again. My water has lots of potassium and chloramine in it.

 

[Crazycoryfishlady]

I used it at least twice, experimenting the same as you. My betta got sick. Cleaned the tank, waited over a couple of months, put a drop or two in tank water and added the water to the 20 gallon tank, and again he got sick. I have stopped using it also. Perhaps my water has enough for the plants and I'm over supplementing it and the fish doesn't need to breathe it in. So I stopped using it completely.

This is a pretty good point I don't think others have noticed as much.

I'm no scientist, but perhaps OP already has a decent amount of CO2 produced in his tanks, so an additive would just bring that up to dangerous levels.

Does anyone know the half life of our product? If we know when it breaks down, then we could try to guess which part is harming the fish, the glut part, or is it when the glut breaks down that it's causing toxicity?

Is there a way for us to measure CO2 in tanks? I don't feel the need for it so I've never used it.

I know people don't have problems unless they od their can of CO2.
Perhaps OP should stick to the real stuff instead of artificial additives.

I feel like there's a small piece we are missing that totally explains the deaths (aside from the inaccuracies in dosing)
Like maybe it breaking down into a CO2 OD.

What I've also noticed with some proprietary products, they don't have a regulated doseage always, so say you buy a bottle of unregulated vitamins, one vitamin from the batch could have 200% dv of a substance, and another one from the same bottle can have less than that.

Perhaps the bottles need to be mixed before use, or perhaps there is slight variation(not by 200% but maybe .2% or something similar.

I know some people have gotten tampered products before.

 

[AvalancheDave]

I love it.
I'm just a normal young adult girl who recently started fish keeping again, but it feels nice someone thinks I make a lot of money at a very successful company
I wish I was seachem regional manager lol

Seachem is going to take a pretty big hit in the coming months. If they weren't privately held I would short their stocks.

I talked with the manufacturer technician of one of my supplements, and they warned me that using the chlorine neutralizer and excel or any other item can deplete the tank of oxygen. They said to separate the two doses from each other by at least 30 minutes. So I thought my betta might be sensitive to that, and tried it again.

Glutaraldehyde and dechlorinator should be 24-48 hours apart otherwise the dechlorinator might neutralize the glutaraldehyde. I haven't found any evidence in scientific literature that glutaraldehyde reduces dissolved oxygen levels. The doses of some dechlorinating chemicals required to lower dissolved oxygen levels also looked to be much higher than what we'd use in aquariums.

Maybe I'll test this one day to settle the issue. Dissolved oxygen probes are $800 though so it may have to wait awhile.

I'm no scientist, but perhaps OP already has a decent amount of CO2 produced in his tanks, so an additive would just bring that up to dangerous levels.

Does anyone know the half life of our product? If we know when it breaks down, then we could try to guess which part is harming the fish, the glut part, or is it when the glut breaks down that it's causing toxicity?

I know people don't have problems unless they od their can of CO2.
Perhaps OP should stick to the real stuff instead of artificial additives.

I feel like there's a small piece we are missing that totally explains the deaths (aside from the inaccuracies in dosing)
Like maybe it breaking down into a CO2 OD.

The half-life is 6-12 hours depending on who you ask. Glutaraldehyde is much more toxic than CO2. It doesn't kill by increasing CO2 levels or decreasing oxygen levels.

 

[86 ssinit]

Ok just curious here and I didn’t read the whole thread. So could the problem be that after dosing the excel it actually started killing the ops moss? Excel kills algae and some mosses are algae. So maybe the decomposing moss had something to do with the fish dying?

 

[Crazycoryfishlady]

Ok just curious here and I didn’t read the whole thread. So could the problem be that after dosing the excel it actually started killing the ops moss? Excel kills algae and some mosses are algae. So maybe the decomposing moss had something to do with the fish dying?

Op never really mentioned it killing the moss, the issue was more they were blaming excel for multiple fish deaths ehich they found correlated with dosing of flourish.
I'm not sure just HOW much it matters, but some of the dosing responses changed and doses were said to be between 5ml-3ml every day.
Op tried using it 3 separate occasions in a 30 gallon and witnessed deaths 12-24 hours later as stated by them.

 

[-Mak-]

This is a pretty good point I don't think others have noticed as much.

I'm no scientist, but perhaps OP already has a decent amount of CO2 produced in his tanks, so an additive would just bring that up to dangerous levels.

Does anyone know the half life of our product? If we know when it breaks down, then we could try to guess which part is harming the fish, the glut part, or is it when the glut breaks down that it's causing toxicity?

Is there a way for us to measure CO2 in tanks? I don't feel the need for it so I've never used it.

I know people don't have problems unless they od their can of CO2.
Perhaps OP should stick to the real stuff instead of artificial additives.

I feel like there's a small piece we are missing that totally explains the deaths (aside from the inaccuracies in dosing)
Like maybe it breaking down into a CO2 OD.

What I've also noticed with some proprietary products, they don't have a regulated doseage always, so say you buy a bottle of unregulated vitamins, one vitamin from the batch could have 200% dv of a substance, and another one from the same bottle can have less than that.

Perhaps the bottles need to be mixed before use, or perhaps there is slight variation(not by 200% but maybe .2% or something similar.

I know some people have gotten tampered products before.

I’m quite sure glut doesn’t break down into CO2 at all, it just offers carbon intermediates (my personal thought is it may be an intermediate compound that contributes to the Calvin cycle of photosynthesis). So it’s a compound that contains carbon atoms, that the plant doesn’t have to produce on its own.

Ok just curious here and I didn’t read the whole thread. So could the problem be that after dosing the excel it actually started killing the ops moss? Excel kills algae and some mosses are algae. So maybe the decomposing moss had something to do with the fish dying?

OP had flame moss which is not an algae

 

[Crazycoryfishlady]

I’m quite sure glut doesn’t break down into CO2 at all, it just offers carbon intermediates (my personal thought is it may be an intermediate compound that contributes to the Calvin cycle of photosynthesis). So it’s a compound that contains carbon atoms, that the plant doesn’t have to produce on its own.


OP had flame moss which is not an algae

It was just a long shot and I thought someone had said it breaks down to CO2 eventually.
Was unsure.
I was trying to reach for answers lol

 

[DoubleDutch]

This is a pretty good point I don't think others have noticed as much.

I'm no scientist, but perhaps OP already has a decent amount of CO2 produced in his tanks, so an additive would just bring that up to dangerous levels.

Does anyone know the half life of our product? If we know when it breaks down, then we could try to guess which part is harming the fish, the glut part, or is it when the glut breaks down that it's causing toxicity?

Is there a way for us to measure CO2 in tanks? I don't feel the need for it so I've never used it.

I know people don't have problems unless they od their can of CO2.
Perhaps OP should stick to the real stuff instead of artificial additives.

I feel like there's a small piece we are missing that totally explains the deaths (aside from the inaccuracies in dosing)
Like maybe it breaking down into a CO2 OD.

What I've also noticed with some proprietary products, they don't have a regulated doseage always, so say you buy a bottle of unregulated vitamins, one vitamin from the batch could have 200% dv of a substance, and another one from the same bottle can have less than that.

Perhaps the bottles need to be mixed before use, or perhaps there is slight variation(not by 200% but maybe .2% or something similar.

I know some people have gotten tampered products before.

Excel isn't C02 ! So doesn't add to that level.
Edit : oops that was already mentioned.

 

[Crazycoryfishlady]

Excel isn't C02 ! So doesn't add to that level.

I know that it itself isnt, but I swear I've read before that it's a "liquid CO2 fert" and I felt like I read it broke down into CO2 as posted by another member (maybe I'm imagining things in my headcold haze)
Which was the reasoning for my guess.
I haven't done as much research as others because I simply don't care as much, it's not something I'll find myself buying.
Heck I didn't even want to by flourish really, but wanted to see if it would help and I would notice a difference.

It's very unfortunate the fish passed, I'm just curious what the actual cause was.
Whether overdose or internal damage unseen.

 

[DoubleDutch]

I know that it itself isnt, but I swear I've read before that it's a "liquid CO2 fert" and I felt like I read it broke down into CO2 as posted by another member (maybe I'm imagining things in my headcold haze)
Which was the reasoning for my guess.
I haven't done as much research as others because I simply don't care as much, it's not something I'll find myself buying.
Heck I didn't even want to by flourish really, but wanted to see if it would help and I would notice a difference.

It's very unfortunate the fish passed, I'm just curious what the actual cause was.
Whether overdose or internal damage unseen.

I've also read that earlier !!!
You're right. Overdosing or a combination as suggested.

 

[Ed1957]

It's a carcinogenic and it does not affect your fish adversely but was banned from use in hospitals due to the effect on humans. So you think there are no ill affects on your fish. I wouldn't want to put my hands or arms in that water

Does anyone know the affects it has on humans. Is the toxicity passed thru the air. Is it passed from being absorbed by the skin. At what concentration is it not toxic to humans. Anything that is a known carcinogenic to me will never make its way into my tank. To each their own.