Zebra Danio Problems

I am new to fish keeping and went about this all wrong.

I just started a 10 gallon tank, and did not cycle it. I used regular tap water untreated. Started with 7 zebra danios and added a fantail goldfish the next day. 6 of the zebras looked healthy, but one didn't. Tank filter does 100 gallons an hour. Everything was fine until 2 days ago.

I had my first zebra danio loss 2 days ago. The goldfish looked fine, and 4 of the zebras looked ok. 2 of them stayed off by themselves. Those 2 wouldn't eat, and have now also passed away, one of them was to a problem with the swim bladder, the other 2 I didn't see die, so I'm not sure.

Though I did do some research, I did a lot more to find out what's going on. I immediately got seachem prime to add in the aquarium, and then did a 60% water change with prime treated water.

Tests are showing 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite (likely because the tank isn't cycled) and I unfortunately don't have an ammonia test kit, however the prime is supposed to make it harmless for about 48 hours.

I now have 1 fantail goldfish who has been doing fine since I got him, and 4 remaining zebras. 3 look fine, however one is swimming by herself near the filter. I'm concerned because this is similar behavior to the ones that died, however this one does eat when I feed them and it appears that she is actually swimming against the current which I've seen several of them do before, only she does it almost all the time. She does occasionally swim with the rest, but almost always is swimming by the filter. Is this fish going to be ok, or should I be concerned?

I realize now I should have completely cycled the tank first. I will not add any new fish until this problem is resolved. One more detail is that it seems all the males died. Just a coincidence?

So my 2 questions: Do you think this zebra danio is going to be ok? And will the rest of the fish be safe/a lot better off with the prime treated water?

I know this sounds bad... I really wanted these fish to be safe and happy I'm glad my goldfish is doing very well despite the conditions, but I want the little zebras to be happy too.

 

Okay so you have some issues here besides the uncycled tank. Zebra danios need a 20 gallon long minimum as they're very active fish. That goldfish of yours needs a 30 gallon at least as those things get big. They could be dying from the stress of being cramped. As for the uncycled tank part, I'd suggest getting a bottle of Safe Start to make the water liveable and use a primer on the new water when doing water changes

 

Hello and welcome! I'm sorry you had to come because there is any issue with your cycling.

So to answer your questions in short:

1) There is a chance, but you will have to do daily water changes to manage the high bioload of all of those fish and to keep them safe during cycling until the process is complete

2) the answer to this one is like the one above. Prime will only detoxify for 24 hours, but it doesn't change the ammonia. It simply turns the ammonia into ammonium, which is a less toxic form. But after those 24 hours, it's back to ammonia. So you will have to do daily WC to keep up

And you probably don't want to hear this, but a 10 gallon is too small for either a school of zebra danios or a fancy goldfish, much less both. Zebra danios are very active and will do much better in a tank that they can actively zip back and forth in; usually a 20 gallon long is minimim. For the fancy goldfish, they do get quite large (although not lengthwise, like comets for example, but they are deep bodied) and have an equally large bioload. A 20 gallon standard size is also a "minimum" for them (and I do say that lightly depending on the type of goldfish), but a 30 gallon is much better for accommodating their size.

You may want to think about upgrading the tanks to accommodate each of the fish's needs. If this isn't feasible for you, you may want to consider rehoming the fish after the cycle is complete (if they survive, I'm sure pet sores won't take any sick looking fish unfortunately) and get something that will do well in your 10g

Also, as for the coincidental part, zebra danios are quite hard to sex, you can't just go off of belly size (as I'm guessing you were?); it may be due to the environmental conditions causing them to appear a certain way. And even then, it's difficult as they aren't prolific breeders in the home aquaria unless you are actively trying to breed them. So they may have not all been males

**so in short, I would double dose the Prime every day when you do a water change; you'll want to change 60-80% daily just to manage it without affecting their health greatly and to get them through the cycle.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask! Sorry my response was long

 

Thank you both

I realize the Danios are definitely not suitable for this tank. I am looking into either re homing the danios or getting a bigger tank. Whichever is quicker.

For the goldfish, he's not a fancy. He's a fantail. I have heard that the fancys need 30 gallons, but I though 1 fantail is ok in 10 gallons. Am I mistaken?

I appreciate the help and patience.

 

Thank you both

I realize the Danios are definitely not suitable for this tank. I am looking into either re homing the danios or getting a bigger tank. Whichever is quicker.

For the goldfish, he's not a fancy. He's a fantail. I have heard that the fancys need 30 gallons, but I though 1 fantail is ok in 10 gallons. Am I mistaken?

I appreciate the help and patience.

The "fancy" name is quite broad; it indicates any type of goldfish that deviates from the standard comet; this includes fantails. In essence, a "Fantail" is a type of Fancy goldfish .

These guys get to about 6-7in, possibly more if they are kept in good care and not stunted; a 10 gallon isn't a whole lot of swimming space for them if they do get to this size. You may be able to get away with housing one in a 20 gallon if you maintain the water quality very well, but a 10 gallon would be quite small for them. You can use it temporarily to cycle the tank to handle his bioload and grow him out a bit if he's still small, but you'll definitely want to give him an upgrade! (If you do, you can get an "insta-cycle" by simply transferring his media from his 10 gallon to the 20g, no need for more cycling lol)

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of that. He is still quite small right now, so that is also helps right at this moment. I just did about a 70% water change with a double dose of prime. Goldfish still looks healthy and all 4 danios look good at the moment. Thank you for the help, and I think I'm going to aI'm for the bigger tank since 1.) the goldfish is going to need it anyway and 2.) I'm not sure if I can find a good home for the danios. I will keep looking though.

Is it possible that they swim in the current because they want more space to swim? Like a treadmill sort of?

Edit: 3 of 4 danios have regained color. All 4 seem to be behaving normally. Maybe I will get a large enough tank to keep them

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of that. He is still quite small right now, so that is also helps right at this moment. I just did about a 70% water change with a double dose of prime. Goldfish still looks healthy and all 4 danios look good at the moment. Thank you for the help, and I think I'm going to aI'm for the bigger tank since 1.) the goldfish is going to need it anyway and 2.) I'm not sure if I can find a good home for the danios. I will keep looking though.

Is it possible that they swim in the current because they want more space to swim? Like a treadmill sort of?

Edit: 3 of 4 danios have regained color. All 4 seem to be behaving normally. Maybe I will get a large enough tank to keep them

Yay! I'm glad they are feeling better. Maintain that water and test for ammonia daily

That could be why they choose to go in the current, they are very active and it could be simulating something for them Alternatively, it may have been a bit of energy loss from the effects of cycling, causing them to "fall" into the current from not actively swimming.

If you want to keep them together, a 40breeder (anything bigger of course is much appreciated...you *could* get away with a 30, but the 40 will be easier to manage). I will make a disclaimer (because I am sure someone will chime in on this decision), however, imho,

Goldfish are coldwater fish; they do better in those temps where there is lots of oxygen. However, they can be kept up to room temperature, and are often kept so, as long as the temperature stays fairly cool, from
72 (possibly 70 depending on who you ask) to 75 degrees (some even keep them at a slightly higher temp). Although they can be kept higher, it is often discouraged if a much higher temperature will be sustained for extended periods of time (like if the surrounding temp is always 80 degrees year round) and there is less oxygen (which can be fixed with more surface agitation) and other factors; they won't feel comfortable in constant heat and will be in a state of lethargy and may not possible eat.

Zebra danios are subtropical fish; meaning they do best in temps from 75 degrees and cooler which is usually the room temperature. As far as I see it, they are also a coolwater fish that "happens" to withstand slightly higher temps (but this doesn't mean they should like they sometimes are!)

Therefore, yes, you can keep both goldfish and zebra danios together in the same tank as long as the temperature is kept cool and there is adequate space. You will want to increase the surface agitation if you do so be adding a larger airstone or something similar. You will also want to consider baffling the flow of the filter a bit so there isn't a hard current for your goldie to constantly fight against as they aren't the best swimmers. An issue to may run into is that goldfish aren't the most aggressive and may find themselves outcompeted for food; the danios and goldfish will have separate dietary needs that you will want to consider and ensure each species gets.

Ok, sorry for the long post again! I just wanted to make sure you knew the requirements for each fish and the pros/cons of housing them together as well as put out a little disclaimer as to why the two species *can* be housed together imo (although you certainly don't have to keep them together!)

 

Yes so the current was a problem for the goldfish at first. I added a decoration that also houses a real plant that blocked or redirected the current, and he has been swimming all over ever since then.

So the reason I originally chose the danios is because I wanted different fish and I for sure wanted a goldfish. I read that most of the time goldfish go good with other goldfish, but that zebra danios can work with them if you do choose another fish. I saw the temperature they require, and saw it would work with a goldfish. The tank is at room temperature which is usually about 72. Also read they were hardy which is true, but obviously they aren't invincible. I researched danios a bit, but apparently not enough.

I have been feeding them flakes and pellets. Of course the danios eat the flakes, but the gold fish gets some to and he also gets the ones that sink while the danios eat at the surface. (Although he has learned to go to the surface as well) and he is too slow to get the pellets which is good because he shouldn't eat them.

The filter is causing quite a bit of surface agitation right now, however I will add an air stone in the larger tank. It also depends on how close to the rI'm the water level is. So I try to keep it a smidge lower for more surface agitation and more oxygen.

Looking back, I would not have put these 2 fish together. It seems like it could definitely work but I am so new to this, it seems like a fair amount of experience would be needed to pull this off well. I just wanted a goldfish with friends, but it appears the danios simply tolerate the goldfish and the goldfish is just a nuisance to them. Probably because the tanks is too small :/

Anyway, thank you so much and don't even worry about the long response. I've been a bit long winded myself and you have been very helpful. I'm staring at the tank right now. The one danio has returned to the filter area, however when she does leave she swims just fine, no problems and looks healthy. This one is one that has regained color, so I'm not too worried at the moment, but I will be keeping a close eye, changing water frequently, and figuring out what to do with them

Oh also, no they don't fall in the current. They swim against it.

 

Stop and consider this though. You are on a crazy pace for maintenance now, trying to keep that goldfish in a 10. How long do want to keep it up? A goldie can live 30 years.
He will eat the zebras when he can.
I would be looking to rehome that fantail. Sorry. All the chemical mixes and such may get you to the cycle, but the cycle can't handle a goldfish in a 10 for more than a few weeks.

 

Stop and consider this though. You are on a crazy pace for maintenance now, trying to keep that goldfish in a 10. How long do want to keep it up? A goldie can live 30 years.
He will eat the zebras when he can.
I would be looking to rehome that fantail. Sorry. All the chemical mixes and such may get you to the cycle, but the cycle can't handle a goldfish in a 10 for more than a few weeks.

^entirely agree with this... except the rehoming part. you said you for sure wanted a goldfish, right? upgrade to a 30G. it will cause you less problems (water quality-wise esp.), give you and the fish far more joy, and you don't have to fear the inevitable stunting that will happen in a 10G.

good luck.

 

Yeah I would much rather re home the zebras and get a bigger tank then re home the goldfish. It is a crazy pace, but I will do it til I get the 30. My only other option is don't do it, and that's just cruel.


I just found this chart. Is this a good way to find his age and/or how much time I have? He's between an inch and a half and 2 inches. So he's less than 3 months old!?

Anyway, if any other noobs read this, fish are high maintenance pets. Make sure you're ready. That's my advice..

 

Yeah I would much rather re home the zebras and get a bigger tank then re home the goldfish. It is a crazy pace, but I will do it til I get the 30. My only other option is don't do it, and that's just cruel.

https://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/pdf/goldfish size chart.pdf

I just found this chart. Is this a good way to find his age and/or how much time I have? He's between an inch and a half and 2 inches. So he's less than 3 months old!?

The chart is very rough, and it seems to be catered for the comet rather than a fancy. But, a similar principle can still apply. Your guy is pretty small, so he's quite young, quite possibly 3-6 months; it's not surprising since the goldfish market is quite high and breeders sell them as soon as they can. And Goldys are slow growers. It might take a year or two (or more), depending on care, for him to get their full adult size. Remember that size can be influenced by the diet they were/are fed and the conditions they were/are in.

 

Alright, good to know. So I need to just transfer him as soon as possible to avoid problems.

In the meantime, all the fish look healthy at the moment, which is a bit of a relief. Thank you all so much!

 

imo don't panic too much - get the 30 as soon as you're able to. stunting is a horrible thing to happen to fish, but they can recover from it once they're moved from the too-small environment, provided they weren't in there too long. so while yes, it'd be ideal for you to rush out tomorrow and get a 30, it's not possible for most people to do that, so just consistently test his water and do the subsequent water changes to keep his water quality pristine until you get him his forever home.

 

imo don't panic too much - get the 30 as soon as you're able to. stunting is a horrible thing to happen to fish, but they can recover from it once they're moved from the too-small environment, provided they weren't in there too long. so while yes, it'd be ideal for you to rush out tomorrow and get a 30, it's not possible for most people to do that, so just consistently test his water and do the subsequent water changes to keep his water quality pristine until you get him his forever home.

Thanks! About stunting? I thought it was something that happened if you stick them in a bowl or something really small? Is it possible for him to get stunted in a 10 gallon while he's only 2 inches long?