Yoyo loach breeding red mouth lump

eligri

Hi!

Dad and I just spotted odd behaviour from one of my large yoyo loaches. No new fish added to tank last 6-12 months.

He is pale, more so than usual. He now has a swollen, red, inflamed lip. Half of the lower lip. Can't tell if its an injury, or a lump. Can't get a photo of him.

He eats, but seems to be hiding more. However, I noticed he is hiding and rubbing against another yoyo loach, and they appear to be digging a cave.

I'd prefer not quaranteening him since he's quite hard to catch.

What could this be? I have medium sized gravel bottom, not too rough. Think it might be an injury from him digging, and perhaps stress related to breeding?

Edit: he is perhaps breathing a bit fast. Waterchange ~30% done yesterzay. No chemicals added.
 

Roman96

Parameters? A picture would help a lot if you could get one. Did the lump just pop up?
 
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eligri

Parameters? A picture would help a lot if you could get one. Did the lump just pop up?
Should be good params. Tank is at parents house, so can't check.
Been running 2 years. Did a small clean on 2 sponges in one of the two filters a few days ago, shouldn't have killed much bacteria. Also as I said, WC yesterday 30-35%.
None of the other fish acting odd at all. Eating, swimming, breathing fine.

I can ask dad to get a photo of him, but they are so darn fast so doubt he can.
He ate bloodworms, but was hiding and wouldn't come out of the cave. Two of them are lying there together, hence why it seems like mating.

He is digging violently into the substrate, think trying to extend his cave.

I THINK his colors looked better just before I had to leave. More visible patterns.

The red spot does not look fuzzy, from what I can tell. It's on his lower lip, and from the short glance I got, looks like part of his lip. Kinda what it would look like if you bit your lip really hard and it swelled upp.
 
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jake37

How many yoyo do you have - occasionally they tussle to see who is boss. Is this one particularly large relative to the others (assuming you have more than one) ?
 
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eligri

How many yoyo do you have - occasionally they tussle to see who is boss. Is this one particularly large relative to the others (assuming you have more than one) ?
Got 4 yoyo, 1 gibbiceps, 6 pleco (L, albino and regular), 8 gourami, 1 ropefish and 1 Oscar.

He and 1 more are the largest. He is perhaps a tad bit larger, but no big difference.
The one he has been perhaps mating with is the other large one.
 
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jake37

yoyo are not known to breed in home tanks. To my knowledge there are no known reports of breeding in captivity. If they are truly mating and you have frys that would be a wonder.
 
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dMog

how big is the tank an really important to let us know the water parameters for ammonia, nitrite nitrate an ph... at the very least these 4 are the big ones to know...also water changes of at least 35% should be one every single week.
Simply because a tank is two years old or 1 year old will not mean the water parameters cannot be off an be the cause of this issue
If they cannot haul water buckets ...check out the PYTHON water change system
 
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eligri

how big is the tank an really important to let us know the water parameters for ammonia, nitrite nitrate an ph... at the very least these 4 are the big ones to know...also water changes of at least 35% should be one every single week.
Simply because a tank is two years old or 1 year old will not mean the water parameters cannot be off an be the cause of this issue
If they cannot haul water buckets ...check out the PYTHON water change system

Straight tap works here. Been doing 35% changes every 10 days.

I'm certain the params are fine. All other fish are perfectly normal, got a lot of fish in there that would've reacted if he got to the point of having a swollen lip due to ammonia or similar.

As for breeding; doubt they'll spawn. But perhaps it's an attempt at breeding?

The tank is 125 gallons

Also why would ammonia/nitrite/ph cause a swollen lip?
 
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dMog

you cannot know if water parameters for ammonia are fine by looking at water... ammonia nitrite nitrate, ph value and general and carbonate hardness are invisible
T simple fact that the weakest fish in any tank will the first to show any signs of stress/sickness makes us want to rule out or rule in water parameters before anything else is considered as the cause...to know this, water must be tested.going down another rabbit hole and treating anything else will not work if the problem stems from water parameters being off is not corrected first. ie ....treating for a disease will never be successful if poor water conditions are not first corrected
 
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eligri

you cannot know if water parameters for ammonia are fine by looking at water... ammonia nitrite nitrate, ph value and general and carbonate hardness are invisible
T simple fact that the weakest fish in any tank will the first to show any signs of stress/sickness makes us want to rule out or rule in water parameters before anything else is considered as the cause...to know this, water must be tested.going down another rabbit hole and treating anything else will not work if the problem stems from water parameters being off is not corrected first. ie ....treating for a disease will never be successful if poor water conditions are not first corrected
I'll have dad test them tomorrow, but seriously doubt they will have spiked. I know that you can't see water params with the naked eye, but I also find it unreasonable that no other fish would behave the least bit odd, and yet he would have physical signs that drastic.
 
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jake37

Without a picture my guess is he got into a bit of a tussle to fight for alpha. Btw yoyo should be kept in larger groups but that is an unrelated issue.
 
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eligri

Without a picture my guess is he got into a bit of a tussle to fight for alpha. Btw yoyo should be kept in larger groups but that is an unrelated issue.
Isn't 4 enough?
Always heard 4-6

Actually added 3 more at one point, but the oscar ate 2 of them..
Think I got a video of him. But hard to tell, since the lump is on the other side of his mouth..
 
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jake37

Adding Redshark1 as he has a lot of experiences with loaches and i'm just a novice.
 
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Redshark1

Adding Redshark1 as he has a lot of experiences with loaches and i'm just a novice.

Agree with post #11. The only time I've seen red on the mouth with my Clown Loaches is during / after fights for dominance which have happened for the last 26 years.
 
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eligri

Agree with post #11. The only time I've seen red on the mouth with my Clown Loaches is during / after fights for dominance which have happened for the last 26 years.
Is it common for them to rub sides/lie next to eachother as a sign of aggression?
The two large loaches are the ones who stay there now.
 
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jake37

It is common for boita loaches to be social. I frequently have a clown and yoyo lie side by side but i doubt they are breeding
-
Why they do it - I have no clue but someone might be able to explain the social behavior of loaches.
 
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eligri

Did water tests. All looks good:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate ~20-25
Ph 6.7-6.8
I'll do another water change in 2 days to bring the Nitrate down a little, although 20-25 shouldn't be an issue in a freshwater tank. Got basically no algae.

Should I clean the other filter, or is that perhaps best avoided now that a fish is injured? Been 2 months, but cleaned the other filter last week.
External canister filters. Both got good water flow.
 
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Redshark1

I keep Clown Loaches but there will be similarities with other species.

Clown Loaches develop a hierarchy or pecking order.

Once the pecking order is established a lower ranking fish will give way to fish above them in the pecking order.

This results in the higher ranked fish getting more food.

The higher ranked fish then grows bigger and stronger and maintains its position in the group.

A bigger and stronger fish has more chance of breeding and will produce a higher number of offspring ensuring its genes are more abundant in the next generation.

But the weakest fish still benefits from being part of the group as the group provides protection from predators and gives foraging advantages.

My two females have always tested who is dominant. Only when they turned 20 years of age did Anthia become decisively dominant over Tiama, take more food, grow bigger (11.5 vs 10 inch) and push her away from food. However, the two fish have always rested next to each other even after their battles.

Fascinating fish !!
 
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dMog

20 years... yes i think you know your fish stuff....
 
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eligri

I keep Clown Loaches but there will be similarities with other species.

Clown Loaches develop a hierarchy or pecking order.

Once the pecking order is established a lower ranking fish will give way to fish above them in the pecking order.

This results in the higher ranked fish getting more food.

The higher ranked fish then grows bigger and stronger and maintains its position in the group.

A bigger and stronger fish has more chance of breeding and will produce a higher number of offspring ensuring its genes are more abundant in the next generation.

But the weakest fish still benefits from being part of the group as the group provides protection from predators and gives foraging advantages.

My two females have always tested who is dominant. Only when they turned 20 years of age did Anthia become decisively dominant over Tiama, take more food, grow bigger (11.5 to 10 inch) and push her away from food. However, the two fish have always rested next to each other even after their battles.

Fascinating fish !!

Sounds very likely to be the case. Thanks mate!
 
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