Yes or No? TSS+ with Ammonium chloride??

Alright, I've just read a bunch of posts on both sides of this question, so thought I'd post about it specifically to try to get a consensus (sorry if this has come up before, I couldn't find a good answer). I was hoping to do a fishless cycle with TSS+. I ordered a bag of ammonium chloride online, because up until tonight I thought that was appropriate. However, I've just read a few posts that suggest that ammonium chloride won't work for the bacteria that are in TSS+. This was given as an explanation for why TSS+ doesn't work if you just treated with Prime - Prime converts ammonia into ammonium chloride (is that true?). I saw a few posts from people saying that their cycle didn't start with just TSS+ and ammonium chloride, but then worked great with pure ammonia. Other posts suggest specifically to use ammonium chloride (like Dr. Tim's) with TSS+. So what's the deal? Anyone? Why would the bacteria be different in TSS+ and don't you want bacteria that can process the form of ammonia that Prime converts ammonia into??

Thanks in advance...

 

Dr Tim's also sells a bacterial starter (Dr Tim's One & Only Live Nitrifiying Bacteria) that works with it's ammonium chloride, so I don't see why it shouldn't work with the TSS+. I do believe the TSS+ is suppose to be done with fish in the tank already while the Dr Time O&O is suppose to be done fishless, but I have heard of people using ammonium chloride in a fishless cycle using TSS+.


The thing with bacteria in a bottle is that it doesn't always work. I've heard success stories and failure stories, and it's pretty evenly split. It not only depends on if you follow the directions EXACTLY as stated on the bottle, but also how the bottle was handled before you got it (exposed to extreme temps in shipping, expiration dates, etc).

 

The thing with bacteria in a bottle is that it doesn't always work. I've heard success stories and failure stories, and it's pretty evenly split. It not only depends on if you follow the directions EXACTLY as stated on the bottle, but also how the bottle was handled before you got it (exposed to extreme temps in shipping, expiration dates, etc).

Yeah, indeed - there are a lot of variables to contend with so I wonder if the people for whom ammonium chloride didn't work just had a bad batch of TSS+??

Also, that's why I'm a little hesitant to do a fish in cycle - in theory it should work but what if you get a bad bottle?

I've got quite a bit of biology and chemistry background but am definitely not a bacteria expert so I feel like I have just enough knowledge to be frustrated by the lack of complete explanations about how TSS is different from Dr Tim's. Are they different species of bacteria? Different strains? They metabolize ammonia differently?? From what I've been reading ammonium chloride can turn back into ammonia depending on pH and oxidation... So seems like it should work the same under certain conditions? So many questions...

The pet store closest to my house has TSS+ for around $9, while it's like $18 at petsmart, so I guess I can give it a shot and see what happens, and buy a new bottle if it fails. Won't be a true test though because I also used Eco-complete and it looks like that (or something) is already nitrifying the ammonia before I've even added any TSS+....

 

I did my cycle from just Ammonium Chloride (Dr. Tim's) No added bacteria and no seeding. It took me about 40 days to complete my cycle and start adding fish.

Also don't try to find all the answers before you start. Think of your first cycle as a little science experiment. (Especially if you get the API Master Test kit and get to use test tubes and chemicals and be all sciencey) Start your cycle, keep a daily log of test parameters and note if you've added ammonium, etc. And most of all be patient!
For my first cycle, it took a week to process ammonia in to nitrite, and then 20 days to convert nitrite to nitrate. and then another 10 days to stabilize my cycle to converting 2ppm of ammonia in 24hrs. At one point I thought my cycle stalled because I was getting 5+ppm of nitrite, so I did water changes to get it readable.

Just add ammonia and go from there, make any changes you need along the way. It's a learning experience!

 

Hi, Dr. TI'm was the inventor of TSS+ so I would "guess" his product is VERY similar strains of bacteria. What you read about prime being the issue isn't the problem and its not about ammonia conversion. Tetra says ANY dechlorinator used within 24 hours will make their product fail which I don't really get but that's what they say though they say you can use theirs and 15 minutes at TSS+. Once I read through all their Q&A on their website and wasn't convinced of any reasons. TSS+ is the only bacteria that seems to have a time discrepancy issue with dechlorinators.

I think you would be fine using ammonium chloride and TSS+. Sometimes bacterial starters fail because the bacteria just aren't right for your TDS, GH, KH and PH which are all important factors. That's why some people like Seachem Stability better because it has a much wider range of these parameters for success.

I say try it though. If you want to, start a cycle log under the nitrogen cycle forum and we can help you along. Just post your parameters daily or every other day.

The one thing I would say with bacteria starters is do not dose your ammonia initially past about 1.0. You can always increase it after it handles that amount but the ammonia itself is inhibiting to the bacteria.

 

Thanks, I just dosed the ammonium up to 1 ppm and dumped in the TSS+! I'll plan to check it tomorrow evening and will most likely set up a cycling log as you suggested

 

Great, hope it goes well! What did you decide to do with your water? post it in your other thread I guess!