Would a pair of scarlet badis and say 6 chilI rasboras work together in a bowl?

Hello, I am in the process of allowing my 3.5 gallon aquascaped bowl grow and carpet and mature then plan to add a few shrimp, fish to the tank. I have had my eye on the scarlet badis. I have 4 badis badis currently in my 125 community tank and they are amazing and rewarding to keep. Would a pair of scarlet badis and say 6 chilI rasboras work together in this filterless, no heater bowl?

 

No fish should be put in there unless the room is at least 70 F then you could do some shrimp or snails if you do water changes daily

 

No fish should be put in there unless the room is at least 70 F then you could do some shrimp or snails if you do water changes daily

my house is 75-78 all day. And I have done these bowl before. No I do not need to do water changes daily. I am asking specifically about the fish, not if its possible or safe.

 

I would think so, the temp range given for them is pretty wide. My concern would be more lack of water movement (gas surface exchange) since they aren't surface-breathers; I'd probably consider adding a small airstone, throttled down with a valve.

The chilI rasboras have a higher temp requirement, so maybe just the pair of the Scarlet Badis?

 

I wouldn’t put any fish in a 3.5 gallon bowl. While the Scarlet Badis is pretty tiny, it still needs more room to swim around. Additionally I agree with above, maybe some shrimp and a snail.

 

I have one in my 10 gallon shrimp tank, and one in a 20 long. Both of them spend most of their time at one end of the tank, they really don't move around all that much.

Not like a betta that will make use of all the space you give it, showing that just because it can live in a small space, that's not what serves it best.

They're benthic predators, spend most of their time studying a given patch of substrate for micro worms and such. They need a mature planted tank more than they need a large one, based on what I've seen of mine.

 

I wouldn’t put any fish in a 3.5 gallon bowl. While the Scarlet Badis is pretty tiny, it still needs more room to swim around. Additionally I agree with above, maybe some shrimp and a snail.

Nano aquariums exist for nano fish

 

Nano aquariums exist for nano fish

To each their own

 

Nano aquariums exist for nano fish

A 3.5 gal un filtered, un heated bowl is no aquarium at all.

 

The Scarlet Badis takes a temp range of 18-26C (according to SeriouslyFish), which would be 64.4-78.8F. Ambient temp would be fine for it, even using stricter guidelines that put the lower end at 71-72.

It's a half-inch fish; either of the two I have would barely span a US nickel, nose to tail. Using the general inch-per-gallon 'rule', 3.5 gallons is basically equivalent to 7 gallons for a half-inch fish.

A 2.5-inch betta would not have as much swimming room in a 10-gallon tank as a half-inch fish has in a 3.5, unless the container is all vertical or something; and I think a 10 gallon is adequate for a betta.

I do understand what you're saying, and would usually completely agree with where you're coming from - I'm the first person to say that 3.5 gallons is not enough for a betta, or six neon tetras, or whatever.

But from my own experience with having this particular fish, I think 3.5 gallons would be fine for one Scarlet Badis or even a pair of them. Because they are so small, and aren't a fish that needs to be kept in a school, are low bioload, and also are not highly active swimmers.

I think with these it's more important that whatever they're in be mature (so they have something to hunt in the substrate) and planted (so they have plant cover that makes them feel more secure), than that it be larger. Just based on what I've seen of them and their behavior, even in a much larger tank.

I do also think that some water circulation is a good idea, via a small airstone - because the Scarlet Badis is not a surface-breather, like a sparkling gourami.

Filtration also isn't necessary in a planted tank, if your bioload isn't too high. You said above that a few shrimp and a snail in a 3.5 gallon would mean daily water changes - I have a few shrimp in a 1 gallon (planted, with only an airstone valved down to a small stream to move the water a little), and I basically only have to top it off for evaporation (unless I'm also hatching cory fry in there and temporarily adding to the bioload).

This is what it looks like:


(can just see a cory fry perched on the top rock, and another one on the tan rock below it. I do have it heated when ambient temp in the office is low in the winter - in the summer, ambient is a constant 73-74F and the heater isn't needed.)

It's been going for about a year and a half, no issues. It stays at 0, 0, 10-20 when it's just the shrimp, even with no filter; because I don't overfeed, and the bioload is low enough for the plants to filter the waste.

 

A 3.5 gal un filtered, un heated bowl is no aquarium at all.

Just because you have never done it or not the slightest clue about nano aquarium doesn’t mean it can’t work safely and right for a fish. It may not be common but many in this hobby do this and for me it is common. Once again I am asking a question purely on this fish, not whether a member like you agrees with it or has a clue what I’m talking about. Do me a favor and look up aquascape bowl and you will see how common it is to pack live plants and a few fish in these with zero filtration , ferts, and heaters. As stated before I have been doing this now with shrimp in a much smaller bowl with no issues due to their small bioload and the many plants within. This bowl would be much bigger and accommodating to the Scarlet badis ( which is a nano fish ).

 

The Scarlet Badis takes a temp range of 18-26C (according to SeriouslyFish), which would be 64.4-78.8F. Ambient temp would be fine for it, even using stricter guidelines that put the lower end at 71-72.

It's a half-inch fish; either of the two I have would barely span a US nickel, nose to tail. Using the general inch-per-gallon 'rule', 3.5 gallons is basically equivalent to 7 gallons for a half-inch fish.

A 2.5-inch betta would not have as much swimming room in a 10-gallon tank as a half-inch fish has in a 3.5, unless the container is all vertical or something; and I think a 10 gallon is adequate for a betta.

I do understand what you're saying, and would usually completely agree with where you're coming from - I'm the first person to say that 3.5 gallons is not enough for a betta, or six neon tetras, or whatever.

But from my own experience with having this particular fish, I think 3.5 gallons would be fine for one Scarlet Badis or even a pair of them. Because they are so small, and aren't a fish that needs to be kept in a school, are low bioload, and also are not highly active swimmers.

I think with these it's more important that whatever they're in be mature (so they have something to hunt in the substrate) and planted (so they have plant cover that makes them feel more secure), than that it be larger. Just based on what I've seen of them and their behavior, even in a much larger tank.

I do also think that some water circulation is a good idea, via a small airstone - because the Scarlet Badis is not a surface-breather, like a sparkling gourami.

Filtration also isn't necessary in a planted tank, if your bioload isn't too high. You said above that a few shrimp and a snail in a 3.5 gallon would mean daily water changes - I have a few shrimp in a 1 gallon (planted, with only an airstone valved down to a small stream to move the water a little), and I basically only have to top it off for evaporation (unless I'm also hatching cory fry in there and temporarily adding to the bioload).

This is what it looks like:
View attachment 668393
(can just see a cory fry perched on the top rock, and another one on the tan rock below it. I do have it heated when ambient temp in the office is low in the winter - in the summer, ambient is a constant 73-74F and the heater isn't needed.)

It's been going for about a year and a half, no issues. It stays at 0, 0, 10-20 when it's just the shrimp, even with no filter; because I don't overfeed, and the bioload is low enough for the plants to filter the waste.

Thank you for replying to a post that you have experience in. I appreciate the response and I am still months out before attempting to add fish. I want my 3.5 bowl to be completely grown in with plants beforehand.

 

Just because you have never done it or not the slightest clue about nano aquarium doesn’t mean it can’t work safely and right for a fish. It may not be common but many in this hobby do this and for me it is common. Once again I am asking a question purely on this fish, not whether a member like you agrees with it or has a clue what I’m talking about. Do me a favor and look up aquascape bowl and you will see how common it is to pack live plants and a few fish in these with zero filtration , ferts, and heaters. As stated before I have been doing this now with shrimp in a much smaller bowl with no issues due to their small bioload and the many plants within. This bowl would be much bigger and accommodating to the Scarlet badis ( which is a nano fish ).

I have scarlet badis and I personally wouldn’t do it. You seem like you won’t take no for an anwser though so I’m not really sure why you asked. I’ll explain why I think it’s a bad idea. You seem to be getting only no problem yes answers.
Scarlet badis are small and don’t move around much but there are many reports of males fighting eachother. Also they are very slow methodical eaters, think seahorses. This will lead to over feeding and polluting the water IMO. They almost wait for food to pass in front of them. Also many report lack of success with feeding prepared foods but that is not my case. They eat prepared foods for me but not very much in a single moment. I feed mine 2-3 times daily. That would be disastrous in a small tank like yours. They are strict carnivores and your shrimp tank that’s been successful shrimp eat biofilms and don’t need regular feedings as fish do.
also keep in mind the chilI Rasbora and the scarlet badis ph range is dramatically different. ChilI rasboras need a much lower ph.
Also I’m aware of nano aquariums but what you are talking about is not an aquarium. It’s a bowl and IMO no fish except for very few are suited to stagnant water like that. IMO shrimp and snails are much better suited to this type of tank than fish are and that’s why they have been recommended and shrimp have worked for you in the past.
Scarlet badis are rather shy and need a good bit of hiding spaces and generally only males are sold. You’ll have 2 males that will likely fight in a 3.5 gallon tank. That’s not good IMO. I have 5 I’m a 20 gallon with lots of hiding places and they still quarrel. I’m moving them to my 76 gallon soon.
Id personally avoid fish in anything without a filter of some sort that is that size. Toxins can and will build up very quickly in that tank. It will be difficult to maintain anything long term or with any success and that’s just wrong IMO. Don’t get fish knowing they won’t thrive.
just because it can be done doesn’t mean it should be done because sure you can put them in there and they will live for a bit but the idea is to get them to thrive not just live right?

 

I have scarlet badis and I personally wouldn’t do it. You seem like you won’t take no for an anwser though so I’m not really sure why you asked. I’ll explain why I think it’s a bad idea. You seem to be getting only no problem yes answers.
Scarlet badis are small and don’t move around much but there are many reports of males fighting eachother. Also they are very slow methodical eaters, think seahorses. This will lead to over feeding and polluting the water IMO. They almost wait for food to pass in front of them. Also many report lack of success with feeding prepared foods but that is not my case. They eat prepared foods for me but not very much in a single moment. I feed mine 2-3 times daily. That would be disastrous in a small tank like yours. They are struck carnivores and your shrimp tank that’s been successful they eat biofilms and don’t need regular feedings as fish do.
also keep in mind the chilI Rasbora and the scarlet badis ph range is dramatically different. ChilI rasboras need a much lower ph.
Also I’m aware of nano aquariums but what you are talking about is not an aquarium. It’s a bowl and IMO no fish except for very few are suited to stagnant water like that. IMO shrimp and snails are much better suited to this type of tank than fish are and that’s why they have been recommended and shrimp have worked for you in the past.
Scarlet badis are rather shy and need a good bit of hiding spaces and generally only males are sold. You’ll have 2 males that will likely fight in a 3.5 gallon tank. That’s not good IMO. I have 5 I’m a 20 gallon with lots of hiding places and they still quarrel. I’m moving them to my 76 gallon soon.
Id personally avoid fish in anything without a filter of some sort that is that size. Toxins can and will build up very quickly in that tank. It will be difficult to maintain anything long term or with any success and that’s just wrong IMO. Don’t get fish knowing they won’t thrive.
just because it can be done doesn’t mean it should be done because sure you can put them in there and they will live for a bit but the idea is to get them to thrive not just live right?

Thank you for your response. I posted this thread purely to ask about scarlet badis in the environment. That is all. There is no part of me that "wont take no for an answer". That being said there are many here that simply have their beliefs about how fish tanks run. While I see this is very different from the norm, that does not make it wrong or unsafe. Very famous aquascapers do what I am planning to do. I am very well aware of bioload and how cycles work in all tanks. That being said fish can and do well in the "bowls", all without "mechanical" filtration, because the plants do that. As far as the scarlet badis go, I would never put unknown sex into any tank, that's just bad practice for any tank. I have been in the hobby for many years and understand this importance. Most reputable dealers sell fish in pairs, which is what id get. I did not research in full the chilI rasbora and that is my fault to ask the question. Thanks for your reply about the scarlet badis and ill keep that in mind and most likely will forego getting them for something easier to care for as well as with in the ranges of this bowl.

 

I have scarlet badis and I personally wouldn’t do it.

I will ask, since scarlet badis are almost micro predators, wouldn't water fleas, and planaria work for them? These are commonly found in established tank water, which is what I use for water for the bowls

 

Thank you for your response. I posted this thread purely to ask about scarlet badis in the environment. That is all. There is no part of me that "wont take no for an answer". That being said there are many here that simply have their beliefs about how fish tanks run. While I see this is very different from the norm, that does not make it wrong or unsafe. Very famous aquascapers do what I am planning to do. I am very well aware of bioload and how cycles work in all tanks. That being said fish can and do well in the "bowls", all without "mechanical" filtration, because the plants do that. As far as the scarlet badis go, I would never put unknown sex into any tank, that's just bad practice for any tank. I have been in the hobby for many years and understand this importance. Most reputable dealers sell fish in pairs, which is what id get. I did not research in full the chilI rasbora and that is my fault to ask the question. Thanks for your reply about the scarlet badis and ill keep that in mind and most likely will forego getting them for something easier to care for as well as with in the ranges of this bowl.

I would do some research on scarlet badis. There are many posts on here and all over the web looking for females. They are rarely collected because frankly they are ugly. I think I have one possibly but not sure. I’ve seen 3-4 batches of them at my LFS and have not seen a confirmed female. The suspected female I have might just be a juvenile. Also keeping a male female pair isn’t that important if you give them some space. My concern is the 3.5 gallon you’re thinking of won’t give them that space.

I’ll also disagree that most reputable fish stores sell fish in pairs. Some fish do just fine not in a male female pair. Many fish species only males are collected due to them being brightly colored and male to female sex ratios are not respected in many cases. I have two very good and well respected LFS and I’d say 10-15% of the fish are sold in m/f pairs because in many cases it’s not important.
I have ember tetras and I have 6-7 males to 2-3 females and there is zero fighting.
I have dwarf rainbows and I have 4-5 females to 9-10 males. The rainbows are a bit of a concern to me and I’ll likely get some more females if there is any aggression at all. My tank is large and lots of plants, rocks, and driftwood. I also have multiple tanks and can move them at any signs of aggression if need be.
Best of luck to you and I wasn’t trying to be rude so hopefully I didn’t come off that way.

 

I will ask, since scarlet badis are almost micro predators, wouldn't water fleas, and planaria work for them? These are commonly found in established tank water, which is what I use for water for the bowls

I have an established tank with lots of plants, rocks, and driftwood and I don’t see them in my water. I’d say yes they would likely eat them but I’d also think in a 3.5 gallon that they would be depleted quickly. I did have a shrimp with a planaria attached to it and they did eat it but it didn’t last more than 2 minutes. I don’t think that would be a reliable long term food source. You might be able to supplement with baby shrimp but again I wouldn’t rely on it.
Mine eat cyclops, daphnia, coral gumbo, chopped up mysid shrimp, and very sparingly some blood worms and tubifex worms as they are too good for them.

 

I have an established tank with lots of plants, rocks, and driftwood and I don’t see them in my water. I’d say yes they would likely eat them but I’d also think in a 3.5 gallon that they would be depleted quickly. I did have a shrimp with a planaria attached to it and they did eat it but it didn’t last more than 2 minutes. I don’t think that would be a reliable long term food source. You might be able to supplement with baby shrimp but again I wouldn’t rely on it.
Mine eat cyclops, daphnia, coral gumbo, chopped up mysid shrimp, and very sparingly some blood worms and tubifex worms as they are too good for them.

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. I think I’ll find something that suits the bowl. I’ll just research what these other guys use in their bowls. I currently have 4 badis badis in my 125 and I love them but barely see them. That is why I wanted to try the scarlet badis.

 

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. I think I’ll find something that suits the bowl. I’ll just research what these other guys use in their bowls. I currently have 4 badis badis in my 125 and I love them but barely see them. That is why I wanted to try the scarlet badis.

Scarlets are awesome fish I’m just not sure they are best for the bowl.

 

I have scarlet badis and I personally wouldn’t do it. You seem like you won’t take no for an anwser though so I’m not really sure why you asked. I’ll explain why I think it’s a bad idea. You seem to be getting only no problem yes answers.

Actually, I'm the only person who has said 'yes', based on my own experience both with Walstad-method 'scapes (both small and large), and with Scarlet Badis. So I'm probably the one to disagree with - he's just asking the question. I'm the one saying that I think it's workable, and why I think so.

Scarlet badis are small and don’t move around much but there are many reports of males fighting eachother.

By pair, I assumed he meant M/F. Two males even in a 10 gallon would not work out, I completely agree. My bad for not specifying that it would have to be a male/female pair if it was more than one, not male/male.

Also they are very slow methodical eaters, think seahorses. This will lead to over feeding and polluting the water IMO. They almost wait for food to pass in front of them. Also many report lack of success with feeding prepared foods but that is not my case. They eat prepared foods for me but not very much in a single moment. I feed mine 2-3 times daily. That would be disastrous in a small tank like yours.

Thus why I said, it needs a mature, planted tank. Planted tanks typically have detritus worms and other microfauna (other creatures commonly included in the term 'aufwuchs' that aren't necessarily visible to us) in the substrate. You almost can't have a soil-substrate planted tank without them showing up along with the plants you buy.

I haven't seen either of my SB eating prepared food, but I do see them hunting near the substrate, in both tanks (both are mature, planted tanks.) I also don't feed them daily, all the tanks get at least one skip-day. Neither of them look thin, or lethargic, or poorly colored.

When I'm hatching out cory eggs in my 'bowl' (which is only 1 gallon, no filter, just an airstone), I am feeding them in there on a daily basis, for 2-3 weeks typically. But having a few shrimp in there takes care of any uneaten food, and he had said he planned to have a few shrimp as well. (I'd guess that if he has at least one male and one female shrimp, some of the shrimplets could end up being Badis food as well, they're small enough at hatching.)

also keep in mind the chilI Rasbora and the scarlet badis ph range is dramatically different. ChilI rasboras need a much lower ph.

Temp range for the chilI rasboras isn't compatible with a no-heater container either, which he'd already agreed wouldn't work.

Also I’m aware of nano aquariums but what you are talking about is not an aquarium. It’s a bowl and IMO no fish except for very few are suited to stagnant water like that.

Agreed, only surface-breathers like gourami and bettas are suitable for still water like that. Which was why I recommended more than once that he have an airstone to circulate water.

Scarlet badis are rather shy and need a good bit of hiding spaces

Which a well-planted container will provide, which is what he said he was going to be doing.

Id personally avoid fish in anything without a filter of some sort that is that size. Toxins can and will build up very quickly in that tank. It will be difficult to maintain anything long term or with any success and that’s just wrong IMO.

Is Diana Walstad that unknown here? I'm surprised, if so.

Even when I have 10-15 cory fry in my one gallon (they are hatched there and then get moved when they can swim well enough for the current in the larger tank), the parameters stay stable. Because that's the main part of the Walstad method, the ecological balance between plants, soil, and fish. When I have fry in there I do sometimes have to do a water change because of the added bioload of the fry, but not always. Most of the time it stays completely stable without much attention from me. And without a filter.

Don’t get fish knowing they won’t thrive.

This could actually be said of any Scarlet Badis, really. Because if it won't eat prepared food (and you're right, some won't), and is in a tank that doesn't provide any small live food and/or you can't find small enough live food to feed it, it's not going to thrive regardless of what size tank it's in.

Anyway, not trying to convince him, or you, or anyone else that it should be done - you have given a good enough reason that it shouldn't, in that feeding them can be an issue (in any size tank). I'm only saying that small Walstad-method tanks (or bowls) aren't automatically toxic, or only suitable for the tiny bioload of inverts, and so on. Plants and soil were after all part of Mother Nature's water-filtration system for long before we ever started keeping fish ourselves.

 

Oriongal

Thank you for your input as well. As stated before, ( and thank you for seeing what I am actually asking for here ) , I was curious about the SB. I have two "bowl" aquascapes now and one that has been up and running for over a year with only shrimp and snails but heavily planted. I use my 125 gallon water, which is also heavily planted, to top off the bowls when evaporation occurs. I did see "pair" advertised with WetSpot fish seller and they are very reputable. Also as stated above I have the normal Badis Badis and they too are semI difficult feeders, but have had them for a while now. They are amazing fish to me and have a different "personality" than most other fish I have seen. Are there any other fish that you would recommend for this aquascaped bowl? Also to reiterate again, this bowl is currently in a dry start phase and will be only plants for a long time before adding any life to it. I know how to build and sustain natural tanks, as that is what half of mine are already.

 

Maybe least killifish? If you started aerating of course.

 

Maybe least killifish? If you started aerating of course.

I have experience in Killis and do love them, but one issue I would think is they like to JUMP!!!! idk if the clown killI is a known jumper, if not I had my eye on them.

 

No, I don't have experience with a big variety of nano fish yet. A single sparkling gourami would probably be fine with the space and lots of plants for cover, but would need a heater.

Another possible might be the Gulf Coast Pygmy Sunfish, but I have not yet kept them (I can actually go looking for them myself, I live in their range; and do plan to do a completely native tank at some point.)

They're subtropical (anything up here would have to be) so shouldn't need a heater, and can be found in drainage ditches so would probably be okay with still water. They definitely need lots of plants.

But, the only regular outlet I know of for them says they prefer live or frozen food, so feeding could still be an issue especially if wild-caught.