Will my fish heal from ammonia poisoning?

My poor clown loaches gills are extremely red and inflamed. They were exposed to high ammonia levels. I haven't gotten them out completely. At any rate... Will they survive this? I put strong aeration because I was concerned for them, but I do not know if they will make it.

 

50-70% water changes daily help a lot. I addded slight bit of aquarium salt to lower the stress but idk if you're supposed to. Water changes are a must though.

 

Well right now my tap water ammonia is about like my tank. They are both about 1PPM. My filters are unable to handle their current bioload. I think the bacteria died in two of them when the power was shut off overnight. Now they are in another cycle. Blah, poor fish!

I poured a whole bottle of TSS and fluval biobooster in there plus some stability. I can't shake this ammonia. My fish are a little odd right now. But my ammonia went to .25 ppm. In about 20 mins I am going to turn on the UV. This is an interesting way to do it! lol... Hope they don't die but they were dying already so this was my last ditch effort.

 

I don't use chemicals like prime and stuff so I don't know about them. I hope someone like Aquaphobia or Jaxsco can help you.

 

I posted this on another thread since now it has gone to a different issue...

OK. I need help! I am trying to get my ammonia levels lowered! I introduced a TON of bacterium, it wasn't getting rid of it! Then I bought a free and non free kit- and well guess what NONE of my ammonia is "free," this is why it cannot be utilized by the bacteria. I use products and Fritz neutralizer. They are holding my ammonia hostage. How do I untangle that 1-2PPM of ammonia from whatever it is bound with so my filters can take care of it?!?!?

Please help! Fish are struggling!

Recap:
ammonia test kit says 1-2PPM total ammonia; seachem specific ammonia is 0PPM

 

Oh can you post the link of that thread? I'd like to follow it.

 

so they deleted the other thread, so just put it here, sorry about that! Again- my tap water has ammonia in it.

 

Free ammonia or ammonium - it makes absolutely no difference to bacteria. The Prime is converting it to ammonium, which is its relatively non-toxic form, but the bacteria can use it just as easily. If they couldn't, filters wouldn't work in acid water, where nearly all ammonia is in this form.

 

Well, so you are trying to say that all of my ammonia is just in ammonium- from prime and other products- but it is still usable?

So basically bacterium have the capability to take in either form and convert it? It just doesn't make sense to me that they can, because after adding in all of that bacteria- it should be able to reduce it more quickly... Which makes me think that they cannot easily use the ammonium ions.

How do I know the ammonia is not bound to something else, like chloramine?

Well, I did a water change, the new water was 1PPM of ammonia instead of the 2PPM in my tank. Now I am at 1PPM in the tank and I added another 8.45 ounce bottle of TSS and 250 ml of stability.

Now I am going to wait until tomorrow to see what happens with the fish. Current stats are: ph 7.2, TDS 395, ammonia 1PPM but 0 is free, .25 nitrite, no measurable nitrate, 79,3 degrees for my juvenile clown loaches and adult angel fish.

By the way, my clown loaches have finally finished off all of my amino shrimp in this tank.

 

How long have you been adding bottled bacteria? Have you done any water changes or cleaning in the tank or filter in the first 2 weeks after adding the TSS? Did you wait 24 hours between adding Prime (or another dechlorinator) and the TSS?

 

Well, only a couple of days have I been putting in the stuff, the tank was been cycled before... But I cleaned the canisters and then the power was shut off for 1-2 days on it and I didn't realize it. Also, my tap water out of nowhere now has ammonia and it was originally 5PPM injecting, but now the tap is anywhere between .5-2 PPM. And I am injecting that. And no I didn't want 24 hours, was I supposed to wait? :-/ before TSS after prime?

 

Unfortunately, Prime does not play well with TSS and the instructions do require you to wait. For whatever reason, the bacteria in TSS are unable to utilize ammonia that's been neutralized. The bacteria probably starved before the Prime wore off.

 

CindiL.
Sounds like you would do better to use Stability over TSS since you can continue water changes with that. The instructions for TSS are very specific- dechlorinate water, wait 24 hours, THen had TSS, then do nothing for 2 weeks. So it sounds like you may have wasted your money with the use of TSS. So basically this is a huge cycle bump (I assume the filter media stayed wet?). If so, keep doing 50% water changes with Prime (if you can source ammonia free water that would be easier - but not distilled water because that doesn't have the minerals fish need - that would be good. Even if you use it 50/50 with your tap water until your tap water stabilizes. Good luck.

 

Unfortunately, Prime does not play well with TSS and the instructions do require you to wait. For whatever reason, the bacteria in TSS are unable to utilize ammonia that's been neutralized. The bacteria probably starved before the Prime wore off.

Absolutely untrue. This is from Seachem's own website...

Prime converts ammonia into a safe, non toxic form, that is readily removed by the tank's biofilter...

.

 

I know what Prime says but TSS says differently. Maybe I worded that backwards and should have said that TSS doesn't not play well with Prime...or any dechlorinator for that matter. That's according to Tetra:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

"In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a
chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up
ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the
food the bacteria require to live."

 

I dosed with 500 ml of stability today, getting expensive. But my fish are worth 300-450 (loaches are expensive) and I don't want them to die. Still if this doesn't work. After what I have left: one bottle of tss, one fluval, and 500 ml of stability, I'm not using more.

So, I'll wait until around 11pm to dose with tss, as per that information...

 

^^ This still doesn't make sense to me, I know they wrote that but the fish are putting out their "food i.e., ammonia" 24/7 so I don't see how they would starve. If you read through their FAQ there are a couple answers where they say to wait an hour before putting it in (with their product that also locks up ammonia). We should ask them again as its confusing and they are the only product that says this. Also, Dr. Tim's is basically the same stuff since he created Tetra's that used to be Biospira and he says to wait 15 minutes or something.

Anyways
On to other things, uncclewis prime detoxifies ammonia yes but its also related to your ph and tank temperature. Your ph of 7.2-7.4 a large amount of ammonia is always detoxified. I'll insert a chart.

Turn off the UV if you turned it on, because that will kill any bacteria in the water column. Generally the bacteria is in the filter media, substrate etc but when you dump a bottle of bacteria in, it is in the water column until it attaches. It is not instantaneous so you shouldn't expect it to be working overnight. It seeds the tank but they have to attach and multiply. The make cycling much faster, but not instant.

It will catch up. Dose prime daily for the full volume of the tank and when ammonia and/or nitrites gets up to 1.0 do a large water change. Do this daily until you're caught up.

 

Yeah. The prime Vs TSS debate is confusing. We should definitely ask again.

Oh that table is very helpful. It's definitely been over those values sometimes. My ph is normally 6.9 Ish. What does it mean by toxic? Like this is what will kill them?

Oh that says total ammonia, even more interesting

 

I'll look through their FAQ and find what they say.

Toxic would be the amount at a certain ph and temperature ammonia vs ammonium. At a ph of 7.0 and depending on tank temp, somewhere around 2-3ppm is when ammonia becomes free (toxic). That is why the Seachem kit is showing 0 because it only measures free ammonia vs API that measures total ammonia.

 

Awesome... I'll be sure my UV is off. But when I introduce new water it will already have .5-2ppm of ammonia contained. So, if I compare my tap water Vs current water and it's lower at the tap, do a WC? But only 24 hours after adding boosters?

To better describe my filtration... My canisters currently have 950 gph measured capacity. It's a far cry from their claim of 2000, but still great. Loaches like clean water. It's moderately planted. So, with that much filtration on 75G, am I OK in removing it after that much time? I moved my angels to my 75 with loaches bc the other tank at ammonia injection faired worse (7ppm right now) and don't have funds to seed both tanks.… it's the 55 had loaches and angels moved to my 75

Whenever my water supplier started using ammonia conditioner, they must have introduced a very high concentration at first, and I wasn't measuring tap water anymore and it was injected.

Therefore, the bioload also increased. And my 75G is currently heavily stocked.

 

I'd just quit using TSS and only use Stability or the Fluval bacteria then you don't have to worry about timing, can dose it every day whether or not you've dosed with Prime. When you're cycle catches back up it will easily convert the ammonia in 24 hours.

I wasn't sure what you were asking about moving "it" after that much time on the 75g?

 

I mean changing the water after that much time on my 75 gallon. Sorry I updated it but still not clear. You can read the full story of my other tank. Not sure when I should move my fish back to their old home...

I'll use stability and fluval then. TSS is so much cheaper then the rest (all), so that makes me a little suspect already...

Thank god my 75 was half stocked by their current sizes.

It doesn't look heavily stocked but it is. This is when there is a difference in very noob and moderate skill (I'm not an expert yet, lol) they are just all hiding. Angels away from currents and loaches away from light.

They are all stressed too and have red gills

 

Oh ok, so no one is in the 50 gallon right now while you catch the 75 gallon up? Did you move the filter to the 75 gallon for it to be re-seeded?

Once the 75 gallon tank's cycle has caught up then I'd move them back. If you think the stress is too much then you could empty and re-fill the 50 with the lower ammonia water, add prime and put some or all of them back in, just use your stability on both tanks.

The planted tank looks great!

 

Thanks! Well I just measured tap water (left) and tank water-right. Both of these are after at least 5 mins. Prime was only added to my tank water. Should I do a WC? I added some of stability when I woke up.



Also. I've been kinda starving them. Can I feed now? I fed them very little the past couple of days- so now I'm concerned for them.

 

Gee, not much of a difference is there? I would still do a water change and add more Prime and Stability.

 

How much should I change? To help the plants to use the ammonia-should I add flourish? I haven't in a while be of all of the wcs. What about seachem trace or trace elements for plants?

I do not have any nitrite. Should I feed my fish, then do WC?

also, does diachromatecous earth kill algae. There was a minute amount put in the water to increase filtration a week or so ago. At this point algae is my friend...

 

I know what Prime says but TSS says differently. Maybe I worded that backwards and should have said that TSS doesn't not play well with Prime...or any dechlorinator for that matter. That's according to Tetra:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/



"In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a
chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up
ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the
food the bacteria require to live."

Tetra Help Centre staff aren't known for their knowledge of either fishkeeping or Tetra products (like a lot of other help centre staff). What they're saying there about ammonia and ammonia products is clearly untrue, otherwise bacteria would be starved in acid water, and also every time a dechlorinator is used, which clearly doesn't happen. Also, most times you use Prime and TSS together they work just fine. Tetra are just covering up for the fact that some bottles of TSS are dead by the time you get them.

 

No, diatomaceous earth shouldn't kill algae. However, I would be leery of putting it into the water itself because it's extremely sharp and might injure your fish's gills.

 

No, diatomaceous earth shouldn't kill algae. However, I would be leery of putting it into the water itself because it's extremely sharp and might injure your fish's gills.

It also doesn't help with filtration if it's in the water. It will only help if it's in a filter specifically designed for it.

 

Ugh. Another story plot twist. Here is my nitrate reading... Middle is nitrate in tank. Right is nitrate in tap. Nitrite is far left. Therefore, I think my nitrite bacteria are working. How much % water change?

 

That looks good! I would still do a major water change, maybe 50%, to get that ammonia down a bit.

 

This is right now after ph stabilizing and a 60% water change. Now about to add stability and fluval bioenhancer...

Tank right now is cloudy. I "dusted" my plants.

Also they were fed some before WC. I gave my loaches a hunk of salmon. They ate it very quickly.

 

Why do you need to stabilize your pH? And what do you mean by "dusted"?

 

Your getting nitrates so it shouldn't take long now. I wouldn't add anything more now, except Prime when you change water.

 

I mean my tap water comes out at a ph of 9.2.... But kh is 1 kh so when it arrives to my tank it starts out at a ph of 8ish when initially mixed or so but after a day it has always dropped to about 6.1 ph or lower. So I add alkaline buffer and fritz ph neutralizer before I walk away from it. Then I get the ph back to 6.9-7.3 and it's relatively stable. And dust plants means to push my tall ones up and down and then particles are dislodged from them into the water. They are in front of my canister intakes, so they sometimes act like pre-filters bc they are thick and tall.

When I do it I'm always keeping an eye on TDS bc it's my best guage of all of the tank stats.

EDIT the tank particles cleared, and now my tank has a milky white color to the aquarium. When should I add more stability or fluval?

Another edit: my fish are more active now, but my angels are hovering at the top of the water- I have extremely strong aeration right now because of this ammonia problem. And my new water must not have been very aerated. Hope they can breath! ammonia is .5 ppm. I will keep you updated tonight for the numbers!

 

Did you dose prime just to be safe? You can turn down the aeration, they should be ok. Just remember it isn't instant and may take a few days to catch up. In this case your lower ph has helped you out.

 

yeah, I put in prime. Ok I will turn it down it is very loud for them. I have 350 GPH of air heh. I was using mine from my 55 gallon too ;-) no fish in it. I will work on that tank a bit later. heh... my 5 gallon is just a mess. I can't put them with my bigger tank folks and they just have to stay that way ;-) sucks for them. I had about 40 cherries, now I have may be 5-10 in that tank

It went up to 2PPM FAST! wow. I added more fluval and stability. Going to measure it a bit later again.

So cloudy. Lol the cloudiness is not the air however. .


I took out some air things but as you see its hugely aerated.

If you want to know my aeration secrete weapon I'll tell you.

Those bubbles are everywhere... not just on the outer spots.