Wild Fish Don’t Care About Parameters!!

Rtessy

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PheonixKingZ said:
Wow!! You people know a hole lot more than I do!

I am just asking a question, I’m not meaning to get on other people’s nevres!

Also, @nikm128 , you said that Discus, like soft water, is there such thing as a wild discus? If so, is the water parameters in the wild, the same as in captain!?
?
No one seems irritated...
Yes, wild Discus are still a thing, Discus are not a hybrid fish. The pH gets as low as 3-4, though typically higher, so the parameters are vastly different from the ones in captivity. It has taken well over 50 years to force them to adapt to pH's over 3.
 

Crazycoryfishlady

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SixThreeOh said:
Most fish in the wild live full and happy lives. There's a reason fish lay hundreds, if not thousands, of eggs at a time. natural bodies of water tend to have pristine conditions, and the fish in them are evolved for those specific conditions.
Actually the major reason most creatures lay so many eggs is beacuse they're not likely to survive the harsh conditions in the wild like they do in our tanks.
Maybe 5 crayfish from each 100 that a wild cray has survives.
Take that cray out and put it in a tank, and maybe half the babies will survive.

There are certain animals who only bave one baby at a time because it's survival is practically guaranteed while all those fish have to survive, and they likely wont.
They die off in massive numbers and then regain those massive numbers again when they breed again.
They usually don't exponentially grow in their habitat just because it's optimal for them.
Not unless they end up being invasive.
And even then, when they become invasive, they are invading waters so different from their natural habitat.
Wild fish aren't really so much more sensitive to water quality things, as they are sensitive to something artificial.

Sure dropping a wild blue tang into an aquarium grade saltqater tank would likely kill it

But what about the literal fact that every blue tang I see at my saltwater shop IS wild???
It's been acclimated.
Dropping any fish into water right away would likely kill it unless it's made to be able to do that the way pur aquarium fish are.

Wild fish are very adaptable, but we've forced any tank bred and caught wilds to become adaptable to our many conditions by constantly changing their water by taking it sourced form a forever changing system.

But guess what? Nature isn't stable like you might think.
Some of that is our fault, other parts its natures fault.
Nature still experiences some of the chemicals we see in our tanks.
No, you likely wont see 4ppm ammonia water with fish living in it, but you will see water parameters change daily. Not just weekly like ours do.
Because the water is coming from a natural source it is passing through many areas, if coming in contact with human land it can carry higher nitrates from fertilizer, if you catch your own rain water, you may very well find varying levels of nitrates in it based on the time of year and how that day played out.
So not only are they introduced different things as their water flows, but every time any weather changes.
Hence why dojo loaches are called weather loaches because they react to barometric pressure...

I find it funny how some members are sying we shouldnt be looking for wild fish to keep in our tanks...
Meaning local wild fish I'm guessing.
Considering most people think it's okay, or at least at some point have likely owned a fish either wild caught or not far from it.

Many fish are hard to breed in captivity, so they get caught in large numbers and then distributed to places like corporations and private sellers.

I happen to own a few wild fish, and plan to set up a biotope for my area specifically using mostly things from just there, and a few other aquarium plants here and there, since theres not much submerged plants there.

And I'd just like to say, those wild fish have never caught any disease the other fish have had, they've definitely been inadvertently exposed when I started keeping again, but they never showed any signs of stress or illness, and the meds seemingly had no affect on them.
They enjoy being fed in larger amounts, but still sometimes act like they haven't been having meals regularly.
They of course enjoy mostly wild foods, but they easily take fluval and other brands.
They can survive in a wide variety of temperatures, as temperatues in the wild are very irregular, especially with seasons and varying depth.
It will be colder where visibility is lesser, but it may be 70-80 degrees by the shallow shoreline, and they regularly go between those temps on their own accord without ill affects.
As well as traveling to areas where they could.literally be introduced to nearly completely differemt parameters innan instant because of the flow of the water.

The fish we breed captively have been exposed to illness that have weakened them, and iver medicating them has made it so they no longer have a natural resistence to these diseases.

Yes ich exists in the wild too, but it's more likely to die because it's not able to reporduce so quickly if it doesn't have a large group of fish to feed on.

So it often dies off shortly after it's introduced, depending on area.

As humans intervene more in wild ecosystems, the wild waters change more and more, making wild fish more adaptable to the area they live, and even areas they don't.
This is why so many species are such successful invaders.

I just found out today that the wild fish I have is invasive and isn't even registered as being found in our waters yet.
Yet last year I found thousands of them living in the local river, and I kept a few.
They've grown with me, and are the hardiest fish I own, honestly.

A wild fish known for not being hardy, and yet captives stand no chance.

We have riddled their gene pool the same way we've ruined ours and other species with poor diet, over medication and selection, as well as a lack of predators to remove any less than desirables.
 

Crispii

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Crazycoryfishlady said:
Actually the major reason most creatures lay so many eggs is beacuse they're not likely to survive the harsh conditions in the wild like they do in our tanks.
Maybe 5 crayfish from each 100 that a wild cray has survives.
Take that cray out and put it in a tank, and maybe half the babies will survive.

There are certain animals who only bave one baby at a time because it's survival is practically guaranteed while all those fish have to survive, and they likely wont.
They die off in massive numbers and then regain those massive numbers again when they breed again.
They usually don't exponentially grow in their habitat just because it's optimal for them.
Not unless they end up being invasive.
And even then, when they become invasive, they are invading waters so different from their natural habitat.
Wild fish aren't really so much more sensitive to water quality things, as they are sensitive to something artificial.

Sure dropping a wild blue tang into an aquarium grade saltqater tank would likely kill it

But what about the literal fact that every blue tang I see at my saltwater shop IS wild???
It's been acclimated.
Dropping any fish into water right away would likely kill it unless it's made to be able to do that the way pur aquarium fish are.

Wild fish are very adaptable, but we've forced any tank bred and caught wilds to become adaptable to our many conditions by constantly changing their water by taking it sourced form a forever changing system.

But guess what? Nature isn't stable like you might think.
Some of that is our fault, other parts its natures fault.
Nature still experiences some of the chemicals we see in our tanks.
No, you likely wont see 4ppm ammonia water with fish living in it, but you will see water parameters change daily. Not just weekly like ours do.
Because the water is coming from a natural source it is passing through many areas, if coming in contact with human land it can carry higher nitrates from fertilizer, if you catch your own rain water, you may very well find varying levels of nitrates in it based on the time of year and how that day played out.
So not only are they introduced different things as their water flows, but every time any weather changes.
Hence why dojo loaches are called weather loaches because they react to barometric pressure...

I find it funny how some members are sying we shouldnt be looking for wild fish to keep in our tanks...
Meaning local wild fish I'm guessing.
Considering most people think it's okay, or at least at some point have likely owned a fish either wild caught or not far from it.

Many fish are hard to breed in captivity, so they get caught in large numbers and then distributed to places like corporations and private sellers.

I happen to own a few wild fish, and plan to set up a biotope for my area specifically using mostly things from just there, and a few other aquarium plants here and there, since theres not much submerged plants there.

And I'd just like to say, those wild fish have never caught any disease the other fish have had, they've definitely been inadvertently exposed when I started keeping again, but they never showed any signs of stress or illness, and the meds seemingly had no affect on them.
They enjoy being fed in larger amounts, but still sometimes act like they haven't been having meals regularly.
They of course enjoy mostly wild foods, but they easily take fluval and other brands.
They can survive in a wide variety of temperatures, as temperatues in the wild are very irregular, especially with seasons and varying depth.
It will be colder where visibility is lesser, but it may be 70-80 degrees by the shallow shoreline, and they regularly go between those temps on their own accord without ill affects.
As well as traveling to areas where they could.literally be introduced to nearly completely differemt parameters innan instant because of the flow of the water.

The fish we breed captively have been exposed to illness that have weakened them, and iver medicating them has made it so they no longer have a natural resistence to these diseases.

Yes ich exists in the wild too, but it's more likely to die because it's not able to reporduce so quickly if it doesn't have a large group of fish to feed on.

So it often dies off shortly after it's introduced, depending on area.

As humans intervene more in wild ecosystems, the wild waters change more and more, making wild fish more adaptable to the area they live, and even areas they don't.
This is why so many species are such successful invaders.

I just found out today that the wild fish I have is invasive and isn't even registered as being found in our waters yet.
Yet last year I found thousands of them living in the local river, and I kept a few.
They've grown with me, and are the hardiest fish I own, honestly.

A wild fish known for not being hardy, and yet captives stand no chance.

We have riddled their gene pool the same way we've ruined ours and other species with poor diet, over medication and selection, as well as a lack of predators to remove any less than desirables.
And what wild fish are you keeping?
 

Crazycoryfishlady

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Finally finished the report lol...
There's hundreds of them here, likely introduced illegally but no one really knows about them.
They're used as forage fish for salmon, walleye and pike and fish species.
But unfortunately once introduced they can't really be contained.
The last report for them was made in 2012 in ohio.
They're predominantly an eastern fish, not western.

There were hundreds where I found them, and since they're semi aggressive they could become a threat to any native plants, fish or invertebrates.
There's a few different species living in that water, and it's likely that since living here they've changed the habitat some, but no one is actually researching these widespread baitfish.
They're sometimes sold deceased as regular shiners.
But they definitely don't belong in our waters.
While it may not exactly thrive at temperatures of 70-80 degrees, it can survive in them for an extended period.
It is a naturally cold water fish, but it lives by the shore where temperatures reach a nice 74 or higher on a summers day.
I've done a bit of temping there before since I used to collect water and materials from that area, and was curious the fishes natural temp as well as difference between the water i collect and keep in my home.
It's only a few degrees most mornings, but at night the water surely will drop to 60 and below if it's cool enough out.

It's not likely they'll try to remove these fish, but quite a few people will get emails knowing that this fish now exists in the hundreds in our waters.
 

Genavelle

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In wild bodies of water, there is much more water to balance out anything. Everything is much more diluted with more water. Fluctuations in water quality can happen much easier in a 20 gallon tank. So fish living in a tank might seem "more sensitive" simply because they are experiencing fluctuations that wild fish dont have to deal with.

And there probably are plenty of instances of wild fish becoming ill or dying when their water quality suffers, as well. But you can't really know for sure unless you were going to go do an extensive study observing specific fish and their habitat
 

david1978

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I know when we get drought conditions we have a large die off of fish in our creek.
 

gigigamble

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PheonixKingZ said:
I know, but if you took a big tank, filled it with sea water (from the actual sea) and put a wild blue tang, in it. Then, if you got a blue tang from a LFS, and then mixed salt in tap water, and if the tank is cycled, the parameters would be totally of!!
Blue Tang's are entirely wild, they cannot be bred in captivity. A lot of salt water fish are also like that.
 

scarface

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I believe many people underestimate fish survival rates in the wild. Yes, they can lay hundreds and thousands of eggs; and yes, many do die; however, it's not as many as people think or assume. It's why a fishing moratorium can rebound fish populations within a decade or less, and why, unlike hunting in North America, commercial fishing is legal and widely accepted.
 
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