Why risk sororities/communities? Question | Page 2

Discussion in 'Betta Fish' started by aylad, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. ZombieKeepr

    ZombieKeeprWell Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    634
    Ratings:
    +5
    Experience:
    More than 10 years
    Wow SK, I guess you just don't know how to properly keep a betta sorority then, huh? "Joking."

    I'm sorry but while I wouldn't advise a sorority to someone with a million tanks and virtually no time to watch them a lot every day and not have a back up plan for EACH betta, I would advise it to someone who can take the time to make an intricately decorated[doesn't matter what as long as you can give the bettas places to hide and swim through] & heavily planted, well maintained and monitored tank, then why not? IMHO, even tho I have no time for one any more[my job required me to get rid of my sorority among other things] they can be very fun and worthwhile tanks.
     
  2. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Messages:
    5,303
    Ratings:
    +60
    Experience:
    3 years
    I am not opposed to sorority tanks, didn't i say that? No? well there it is.

    However, i don't think we need to kid ourselves with the notion that most sorority tanks work out or that all have the possibility to.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2012
  3. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Messages:
    17,471
    Location:
    Brigantine, NJ
    Ratings:
    +247
    Experience:
    5 to 10 years
    Why risk sororities/communities?I

    It will work till it doesn't...
     
  4. ZombieKeepr

    ZombieKeeprWell Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    634
    Ratings:
    +5
    Experience:
    More than 10 years
    I think it's good to take risks as long as you know what you're walking into and can rework things if it goes wrong. I'm sure that's how people got to the point of keeping fish to begin with.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2012
  5. Lucy

    LucyModeratorModerator Member

    Messages:
    45,855
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +2,380
    Experience:
    5 to 10 years


    This debate is always very passionate.

    Please keep your posts respectful and directed at the topic not other members or we will close this thread.

    Thank you.
     
  6. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Messages:
    17,471
    Location:
    Brigantine, NJ
    Ratings:
    +247
    Experience:
    5 to 10 years
    Why risk sororities/communities?I

    Unfortunately, we often don't hear how these projects work out long term - theres a fairly high turnover rate with members. Most don't come back a year later to tell us how it went. In my experience, very few members come back to report their failures.
     
  7. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Messages:
    5,303
    Ratings:
    +60
    Experience:
    3 years
    I thought about that, i mean, if they were successful, they would still be active right? I'm sure there are a few out there, but a lot of members seem to just drop grid after something bad happens with their tanks(any situation).

    Now, i might mention that i know of 2 sorority tanks that lasted 4-5 years until they were dismantled for non-fish related reasons. Both were large tanks, one was a 40gal and the other was a 55 i think. They both had a TON of plants and decor, tons of females and so on. I'm not sure if it is a truth but possibly a bigger tank with a mass of females works better then a smaller with the same proportion of stocking.
     
  8. Ziggi

    ZiggiWell Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    1,546
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +13
    Experience:
    5 years
    :/ I'm not speaking from much experience, cause I did some research but got it wrong, had 1 male and 2 females in a 10 gal hoping for the harem-thing. The male was terrorized so I sent them all back after a day or two I think. Anywho Original question: Whats the allure? pride of "I DID IT!" and/or pretty fish! The number one reason why people get Betta's is because they're pretty/flashy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they have personality, and they're easy keepers, but the first thing you do when you see a betta is not figure if this one has attitude or if that one is clever... it's "look at how pretty that one is". (Some folks go for the pity angle now, but I'm sure a some point in your hobby, ya looked at a betta and thought "oooo pretty!"). Mollies are easy keepers and have personality, but they look the same, even the dalmations with their spots, same for Gourami, if you go to the clerk and say "I want that blue gourami with the black spot(s)" they're gonna fish any one of the 10 in the tank and slap the price tag on it. Say "I want the pink betta" ... well you can grab it yourself. You get the idea. add to that the whole personification thing we're told not to do (I'm guilty of this too): "he's lonely!!!" and you've got an aggressive fish that now has a living punching bag in a tank... unless you did it right/got lucky.

    Thats my thought, but I'm on the outside looking in. :/ I'd hate to see a shredded fish and know it could have been avoided, even though it's completely natural. Don't take it the wrong way, if it works then koodoes to you! Per Jaysee, I wonder if folks dont mention their success to fear of it messing up after saying something? I mean, in reality, everything works... until it doesn't.
     
  9. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Messages:
    17,471
    Location:
    Brigantine, NJ
    Ratings:
    +247
    Experience:
    5 to 10 years
    Why risk sororities/communities?I

    Well, not everyone that leaves the forum does so unsuccessfully.
     
  10. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Messages:
    5,303
    Ratings:
    +60
    Experience:
    3 years
    That is true, come to think of it, i will now never post of any success with a Sorority, thanks Ziggi XP.
     
  11. Ziggi

    ZiggiWell Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    1,546
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +13
    Experience:
    5 years
    You're welcome spreading paranoia is a new talent apparently, I aim to please in my brain melted-ness! But seriously, I'm sure its a really cool concept/tank when it works SERIOUS Kudoes to those that have them! I want a video! er .... dont video it... but send it to me anyways! you can confuse the cosmos that way!!!
     
  12. Shine

    ShineWell Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    1,258
    Location:
    SASK
    Ratings:
    +20
    Experience:
    3 years
    LOL 'cause the day after you post that "everything has been fine for 2 years--really!" it could all go wrong the next day

    I think personification of fish plays a role. How many people come onto the forum saying 'my betta is lonely he needs some company'. Answer is: tons. I think at least one thread pops up like that a week. And plenty of people get the mistaken impression that bettas are like livebearers or cichlids--just have the right ratio of males to females and you are good to go. Now that might even be true for some of the wilder betta types, but not the regular splendens that most people have access to when they decide to create their own betta community.

    Personally I have no issues with bettas in community tanks--so long as there is only one betta. It's the attempts at 'harems' or sororities that seem to go more catastrophically wrong. I'm sure its been done, but I wouldn't care to try it.
     
  13. jetajockey

    jetajockeyFishlore VIPMember

    Messages:
    6,754
    Location:
    Pensacola FL
    Ratings:
    +93
    Experience:
    More than 10 years
    Not necessarily. Someone's activity likely has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are successful with their tank.

    And conversely, a LOT of people join these kind of forums so they can get help with an already existing situation, so one would expect to see more horror stories than happy endings.
     
  14. shellieca

    shelliecaValued MemberMember

    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Ontario, CA
    Ratings:
    +3
    Experience:
    1 year
    Here's my 2 cents. I have 4 males in individual tanks, 3 10g, 1 5.5g & they each have a mystery snail & I will never add any other fish with them. Now as for a sorority, I have one that currently has 11 females with a 12th to be added as soon as she's done with QT. they are in a 46g pretty heavily planted tank with 4 structures. They share this tank with a mystery snail & 2 CAE's (yes I know about the potential danger of the CAE's). The tank was established in July 2012 & I have slowly increased the # of females over the months, 12 will be my stopping #. I started the sorority because I like Bettas & females often times are overlooked because they don't have the long flowing beautiful fins, they give a multitude of color & movement at the top middle & bottom of my tank without having multiple species. I don't have to be knowledgable about different fish species. I watch the girls when I'm home to see if anyone is overly aggressive, yes there a few nipped fins from time to time but IME with the water quality kept up they heal rather quickly & I've not had any problems with fin rot. Have I lost any females in the last 6 months, yes but not because of fighting. Will this last forever, I don't know but I have a back up plan if its needed. Have I done everything correctly probably not but its worked for me to this point which is all any fish keeper can say. I enjoy watching them move about the tank looking for their next meal cause they are quite piggish.
     
  15. monkeypie102

    monkeypie102Well Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    3,279
    Location:
    Mattoon, Il
    Ratings:
    +19
    Experience:
    More than 10 years
    4 structures? I would love t see this tanks setup :)
     
  16. OP
    OP
    aylad

    ayladWell Known MemberMember

    Messages:
    2,340
    Location:
    NW Georgia
    Ratings:
    +75
    Experience:
    4 years
    Yes, people do keep saying this. And it's true. I'm in the process of planning/cycling two betta tanks now, because they're pretty. And tbh, I'm not even a betta fanboy.

    It's just: bettas are just as pretty in individual or divided tanks as they are in group tanks. Prettier, if a betta in a group tank (sorority or community) gets his/her fins shredded.

    I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies I've gotten. (SK, your opinions are always welcome. Don't go on the defensive! FL is full of people who passionately advocate for their fish; anyone who is bothered by that has already taken their business elsewhere. )

    I guess I can say: sororities are not for me. Bettas in community tanks probably aren't, either, although I might try one with a few neons someday (doubtful). I am glad to understand people's reasons both for and against it a little better, and I wish anyone who tries it the best of luck.
     
  17. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Messages:
    17,471
    Location:
    Brigantine, NJ
    Ratings:
    +247
    Experience:
    5 to 10 years
    I'm not saying this of you, but what you said reminded me of this - it's quite common for people to misinterpret fish's actions. "Playing" and "swimming together" can be signs of aggression. Like any animal in the wild, before a fight breaks out, they will almost always size each other up. Animals really don't want to fight if they don't have to, so if one can be intimidated into backing down, that's a win for both since neither has to risk injury. It's only when the two are evenly matched that things are taken to the next level.

    I'm not saying your bettas are sizing each other up for a fight, but it is within the realm of possibilities.
     
  18. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Messages:
    5,303
    Ratings:
    +60
    Experience:
    3 years
    If they ever swim parallel to each other or with one above the other then they are. Those are the 2 typical sizing up behaviors.
     
  19. sirdarksol

    sirdarksolFishlore LegendMember

    Messages:
    13,175
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +232
    Experience:
    3 years
    I just don't see it being worth the risk in most cases. Bettas are built to be solitary fish. I feel it's better to leave them that way. With many such tanks having issues with half of their bettas hiding and with individuals being obviously stressed for extended periods of time, it's just not worth it. Further, such tanks are often ticking bombs. There have been numerous instances over the years I've been here where someone has had a sorority tank, and it's gone fine for a few months, and then one day there's a huge brawl in the tank and two of the bettas have died.

    I just don't see taking chances like that as being responsible. It's too unlikely that things are going to continue working out in the long term. It's much like keeping a goldfish or koi in a too-small tank, or keeping a betta in a little vase with no heater and no water change. Every once in awhile, we see an individual who has outlived all expectations. But this doesn't mean that these conditions are good. Such things are partially based on luck. And I don't feel that it's fair to gamble with our fish's lives like that.

    The one case where I feel that such a tank is more likely to work is a true sorority tank, where the bettas are broodmates and were never separated while they grew. These fish are more likely to survive peacefully together, as long as they are given plenty of space and plants to claim as their own and so on.
     
  20. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Messages:
    5,303
    Ratings:
    +60
    Experience:
    3 years
    SDS is right. It is not responsible. There are always risks to fish in our tanks, same for fish in the wild. Part of fish keeping is reducing those risks as much as possible, sorority keeping is the opposite of that. However, no one is faulted for it. People arn't pouring Ich into their tanks or starving their fish, those are risks that we try hard to prevent. By introducing multiple females though, you are not trying to prevent anything, you are encouraging the risks, poking them with a spoon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2012
Loading...








Become a Fishlore Member