Why not to let cats outside

Cichlidnut

Member
Thought you cat owners might like to see this.
broken link removed
 

Quinn_Lamb98

Member
lol. I don't think cats killing birds justifies as murder. they are just doing what comes naturally.
 
  • Thread Starter

Cichlidnut

Member
Billions of birds? Cats are an invasive species. It's not natural at all!
 

Quinn_Lamb98

Member
I ment the fact that the cats actually hunt the birds, not the fact that there are cats..... EVERY WHERE
 

Butterfly

Member
It's also not safe for our cats So there's two reasons for them to be kept inside unless being used for pest control in a barn etc.
Carol
 

fishyluv

Member
Its natural for cats to prey on birds,squirels,rats,mice,moles,etc. Just like in the wild, they have to eat something. I have 9 cats. They catch mice and birds and squirels all the time. Its natural hunting instincts! And there would not be so many cats roaming if everyone would spay and neuter like they should. Personally I think there should be some type of law of some kind to get this under control. All my animals are spayed or neuter.
 

soltarianknight

Member
Imo, cats are a pest to nature in the US so we do need to keep them under wraps.

Our local shelter has a few methods they use here to get No Kill Manatee county underway. Obviously we cannot home every stray cat, nor should we euth them. What one group does is collect Kittens, queens and toms(in that order of importance.) The vaccinate and test all the animals. Kittens under 6 weeks are adopted out, queens and toms are spayed/neutered and released where they were found. At first this sounds a bit crazy, but hey, what else can they do aside from kill them. The idea is that by doing this, these cats will not reproduce and their lineage will end there. It has helped A LOT. They get a lot of strays and can collect them faster since they don't need to find long term housing for them(they do care for them a week or 2 after they get spayed and such.) If they didn't so this, then the cats wouldn't be collected at all and would continue to breed. Also, since many toms are just house cats that were not neutered by their owners(Please spay and neuter your animals) and escaped after smelling a female in heat, removing the queen normally causes them to return home from what has been seen. All in all it has been a great success thus far, I have fostered and cared for a few kittens/house cats myself.

fishyluv said:
Its natural for cats to prey on birds,squirels,rats,mice,moles,etc. Just like in the wild, they have to eat something. I have 9 cats. They catch mice and birds and squirels all the time. Its natural hunting instincts! And there would not be so many cats roaming if everyone would spay and neuter like they should. Personally I think there should be some type of law of some kind to get this under control. All my animals are spayed or neuter.
It is natural for the cat to hunt yes. It is NOT natural for the birds to be hunted by a house cat. They are not native, the cats do unbalanced damage to the native populations. No different then any other invasive. They do not belong in the wilds of the U.S. and domestics do not belong in any wild anywhere. They have no need to hunt for their own food since we are supposed to care for them, they are a man made species.
 

fishyluv

Member
soltarianknight said:
It is natural for the cat to hunt yes. It is NOT natural for the birds to be hunted by a house cat. They are not native, the cats do unbalanced damage to the native populations. No different then any other invasive. They do not belong in the wilds of the U.S. and domestics do not belong in any wild anywhere. They have no need to hunt for their own food since we are supposed to care for them, they are a man made species.
I am sorry, I don't agree with this. Its just cats doing what they do! lol They hunt even if they are fed catfood, mine do so do a lot of others. Like I said it wouldnt be a problem or probably would not of even hit the news with this IF people would be responsible and spay or neuter. Cats are cats. Wild ones hunt. Domestic ones hunt. That's what they do.
 

soltarianknight

Member
fishyluv said:
I am sorry, I don't agree with this. Its just cats doing what they do! lol They hunt even if they are fed catfood, mine do so do a lot of others. Like I said it wouldnt be a problem or probably would not of even hit the news with this IF people would be responsible and spay or neuter. Cats are cats. Wild ones hunt. Domestic ones hunt. That's what they do.
Your argument MAKES NO SENSE. Murders murder, drunk drivers drunk drive so yeah, cats hunt. That is what you are saying. Those are the parallels. Just because THEY HUNT. Doesn't mean THEY SHOULD. Unfortunately you can't tell them that so the best you can do is keep them indoors.
 

fishyluv

Member
soltarianknight said:
Your argument MAKES NO SENSE. Murders murder, drunk drivers drunk drive so yeah, cats hunt. That is what you are saying. Those are the parallels. Just because THEY HUNT. Doesn't mean THEY SHOULD. Unfortunately you can't tell them that so the best you can do is keep them indoors.
This is crazy! What do u mean I don't make sense? I am just stating that I am not going to make my cats stay indoors and miss out on nature because that's what they love! They are bored and sad when it is cold outside or is raining as are my dogs. So when it is possible for them to be outside they are. Its that simple. I live way out in the country and I don't see a problem. I would NEVER take their outdoors away from them! Now if I lived in the city, they would probably have to be in indoor cat because I wouldnt trust them being around a lot of people or traffic. But my cats will never be deprived of nature. They love to run up our big oak trees and run across the yard and such. I didnt even deprive my deaf cat of nature. Everyone does have an opinion. And I don't consider cats being murderers! They are an animal. Just my opinion again.
 
  • Moderator

APColorado

Moderator
Member
Just a friendly reminder to keep this discussion civil.

Please respect each other's "opinion", let us agree to disagree. Every thing in life can be viewed differently and not just seeing one side of the story/perspective.
 

fishyluv

Member
AmazonPassion said:
Just a friendly reminder to keep this discussion civil.

Please respect each other's "opinion", let us agree to disagree. Every thing in life can be viewed differently and not just seeing one side of the story/perspective.
Thanks AmazonPassion. I was just stating my opinion. I didnt mean to stir things up! lol
 

Quinn_Lamb98

Member
I agree with both fishyluv and soltarianknight. the cats hunt, that is what they do. it is not murder it is instinct no matter if the animal is man made or naturally evolved. yes, the cats do not occur in nature. therefor they are not naturally hunting birds, mice, etc, they are instead instinctivlly hunting the birds, mice, etc. But it is in their genes to hunt (however distant those genes actually are) and they will always be hunters. period.
 
  • Thread Starter

Cichlidnut

Member
Just because they can hunt doesn't mean they should. 3.7 Billion birds a year just in the US are killed by cats. That's equal to half the entire human population on the whole planet.
 

Quinn_Lamb98

Member
I never said they should hunt, I just said the instinctivlly do.
 

fishyluv

Member
I don't see the big deal about it all. Its just nature pure and simple.
 
  • Thread Starter

Cichlidnut

Member
If cats aren't natural, how is it nature?
 

sirdarksol

Member
fishyluv said:
I don't see the big deal about it all. Its just nature pure and simple.
No. It's not nature. House cats are not a native species. Thus, they are wreaking havoc on the local wildlife. We are certain that the domesticated cat is to blame for at least 33 extinctions in the world.

Further, as Butterfly pointed out, it isn't safe for the cat. I have had to deal with the heartbreak of accidentally running over a cat someone had let go in our neighborhood. I have watched cats nearly get caught by the dogs next door. My neighbor throws rocks at them. If you want a cat, it is not safe unless you keep it indoors.
 

Corine

Member
fishyluv said:
I live way out in the country and I don't see a problem. I would NEVER take their outdoors away from them! Now if I lived in the city, they would probably have to be in indoor cat because I wouldnt trust them being around a lot of people or traffic.
I kind of agree with this to an extent. I believe all city cats should be indoors, but the concentration of cats in rural areas is much lower, which makes less of an environmental impact.
These cats should all be spayed and neutered to keep them from spreading, but a few cats in several acres of country shouldn't really pose a significant threat to the ecosystem. In fact, they may keep numbers of unwanted pests such as rodents down to a minimum and negate the need for things like poisoning, which can lead to the deaths of natural predators and scavengers as well as the "pest" population.
Coyotes and other such natural predators are of greater danger to pet cats in the country though, so it is always a risk to allow your beloved family members outside.
 

CatfishJack

Member
As someone who has two cats who I enjoy and love... I have to say they are deceitful, manipulative, murderous little critters who I have no doubts will eat the flesh off my face should I fall down dead in front of them.

They are spoiled too:

 
  • Moderator

Lucy

Moderator
Member
Bonefish said:
As someone who has two cats who I enjoy and love... I have to say they are deceitful, manipulative, murderous little critters who I have no doubts will eat the flesh off my face should I fall down dead in front of them.


In our case you wouldn't have to be dead or even fall down.

(This is not the sweety in my avatar)
 

escapay

Member
If I had cats, I would keep them inside or have them on a harness for outside time. We've heard so many cats getting snatched up by coyotes that I would not want to risk their life.

Others have mentioned that cats are like invasive species. That is true, but can be kept in check like was mentioned above with feral cats being taken in and neutered/spayed and then released back where they were picked up. They still will be hunting, but at least it isn't going to have more cats take that area to reproduce more.
 

CatfishJack

Member
Lucy said:


In our case you wouldn't have to be dead or even fall down.

(This is not the sweety in my avatar)
Basement cat's evil albino twin!
 

Tigress Hill

Member
I have a male (neutered) Savannah cat, and if he was not allowed outside it would be chaos. He's actually similar to a dog in personality and plays fetch with me
 

soltarianknight

Member
Tigress Hill said:
I have a male (neutered) Savannah cat, and if he was not allowed outside it would be chaos. He's actually similar to a dog in personality and plays fetch with me
I know this feeling. Being that I take in and foster strays, acclimating to indoor life is impossible. That is why our local spca will not try to adopt stray kittens over 6 weeks of age as a priority. They get fixed and released like their parents. My little Ches is a pain. He was brought in at 2 weeks but the stray is strong with this one. He has NO desire to be indoors even though I bottle fed him and his brother for a few weeks. We keep him out on the screen in porch for the most part since he likes it out there.
I don't have any current pics so here is one from 6 weeks ago, he is much bigger now.

 

zombiecat03

Member
I also do TNR it cuts down on the buffet provided to the wildlife...owls think kitty tastes just like rabbit. I have been involved with kitty rescue since 1994. The risks of having your kitty outside unsupervised are staggering. I have afew that are not cuddly social and a wonderful wood and wire enclosure for them and the snugglies to use. Best of both worlds...no diseases or injuries to worry about.
 

marine590622

Member
Cats are killers, not murderers. That is unless they were to kill another cat, and then under the law you would have to determine if they knew what they were doing was wrong.
 

zombiecat03

Member
So I have two white kitty siblings and they are terrors, loveable, but mad monsters all the same. Do you think it has to do with fur color, or taken over by......
 

Butterfly

Member
There are so many dangers out in the world for cats running loose. Cars, other cats, dogs, larger predators and disease to name a few.

The birds, rats, mice and other things cats hunt can be carrying diseases that cats can catch. We have hawks that carry kittens off.

I have a 22lb 7 yr old cat that was only a few ounces when we got him. His mother had gotten run over and the shelter was going to put him down because he wasn't old enough to feed himself. His eyes nor his ears were open. My husband brought him home in his shirt pocket. He was fed with a dropper.

There will always be controversy about letting cats run loose. If you feel your cat has to run loose please spay/neuter and vaccinate it. Give it a place to get in out of the cold and heat.

Just my thoughts.
Carol
 

fishyluv

Member
sirdarksol said:
No. It's not nature. House cats are not a native species. Thus, they are wreaking havoc on the local wildlife. We are certain that the domesticated cat is to blame for at least 33 extinctions in the world.

Further, as Butterfly pointed out, it isn't safe for the cat. I have had to deal with the heartbreak of accidentally running over a cat someone had let go in our neighborhood. I have watched cats nearly get caught by the dogs next door. My neighbor throws rocks at them. If you want a cat, it is not safe unless you keep it indoors.
Well mycats will always be free to roam as they please. I will never take that away from them. I have had cats All my life and have NEVER had anything bad happen to them like disease and such. And if cats are to blame for all this killings then what about all these crazy hunters that go out and kill anything that moves just to brag on it? And I am sure there are plenty of humans that have killed things that are not suppose to be killed that are extinct. Like bald eagles for example......... Just sayin... Endangered is what I meant to say.
 

fishyluv

Member
Corine said:
I kind of agree with this to an extent. I believe all city cats should be indoors, but the concentration of cats in rural areas is much lower, which makes less of an environmental impact.
These cats should all be spayed and neutered to keep them from spreading, but a few cats in several acres of country shouldn't really pose a significant threat to the ecosystem. In fact, they may keep numbers of unwanted pests such as rodents down to a minimum and negate the need for things like poisoning, which can lead to the deaths of natural predators and scavengers as well as the "pest" population.
Coyotes and other such natural predators are of greater danger to pet cats in the country though, so it is always a risk to allow your beloved family members outside.
Yes its always a risk for them to be out as it is for us too. We can go outside and get attacked by a bear or whatever too. Its just life and stuff happens. Accidents happen all the time in this world. Just sayin.
 

zombiecat03

Member
Oh, and a safe place, usually up off the ground to escape if necessary. All of my ferals have a shelter to go to in an emergency. I hope luck continues to smile on you and all your kitties reach a ripe old age
 

fishyluv

Member
Cichlidnut said:
If cats aren't natural, how is it nature?
Yes they are domesticated But it is their instinct to hunt just like in the wild so there for it is NATURAL in my eyes! LOL
 

sirdarksol

Member
fishyluv said:
And if cats are to blame for all this killings then what about all these crazy hunters that go out and kill anything that moves just to brag on it? And I am sure there are plenty of humans that have killed things that are not suppose to be killed that are extinct.
This is called a straw man argument. It is a logical fallacy. Talking about the fact that humans have caused animals to go extinct does not change the fact that us allowing our cats to wander is damaging to the environment.
 

fishyluv

Member
sirdarksol said:
This is called a straw man argument. It is a logical fallacy. Talking about the fact that humans have caused animals to go extinct does not change the fact that us allowing our cats to wander is damaging to the environment.
I think all the trash in the landfills are more damaging to the environment than cats will ever be. That's for sure.
 

Raerianna

Member
After dealing with the heartbreak of having a cat hit by a car and having multiple cats dropped off at my parents farmhouse, I stopped letting my cats outdoors. I've had neighbors and random people drop off kittens that they were hoping would get hit by cars and de-clawed cats that they just didn't want any longer. (We took her in years ago, she's still going strong after a scare with being far too skinny for her body size.)

I completely understand that people want their cats to enjoy life to the fullest. Climb trees, chomp on grass and chase down critters to bring back and make a giant mess with. My message to those people, however, is that your cats can be just as happy indoors as out.

Feeling crafty? Build them a fake tree with fallen logs to sharpen their claws and clamber about on.
Want to make sure they're not bored? Play with them! Those lazer pointers give them a real workout!
Want them to have some greens to nibble? Many pet stores sell cat grass (not nip) that is safe for them to chew on.
Want them to have fresh air? Many people have crafted outdoor habitats for their fuzzballs to romp around in. It's safe for the cats and even safer for the native species as they're less likely to wander into the cat's space!

Again, while I understand wanting to have your cat live its life to the fullest, there are ways around letting it outside and it's more likely that it will live a longer life than an indoor/outdoor cat.

As for population control, I know Habitat for Cats does a trap and release program where I live. They always have signs up to warn those owners that do let their cats wander to keep them inside, or else they may not see their beloved pet at the next few meal times.
 

Eienna

Member
fishyluv said:
I think all the trash in the landfills are more damaging to the environment than cats will ever be. That's for sure.
I would submit that whether it's 'better' or 'worse' is irrelevant. You wouldn't add nitrite thinking it's harmless just because something else in the tank was producing ammonia, would you?

@Raerianna: It's much better to play with a cat with something they can actually catch once in a while (like a toy on a fishing pole or somesuch.) Laser pointers have been known to actually make them obsessive/neurotic for that reason.
 

soltarianknight

Member
fishyluv said:
I think all the trash in the landfills are more damaging to the environment than cats will ever be. That's for sure.
Strawman again darling. Hunting laws are in place to perserve, not destroy. Over population of prey animals is a deadly thing to us and them, hunting REGULATIONS are in place to help lower the population safely.
 

Everythingzen

Member
Cat enclosures.

I've got mine on house arrest for the first time in their and my life. I've never locked my cats inside, ever. All have been desexed early on and all have come and gone with little killing of wildlife. Mine are now locked up inside until we finish the cat enclosure off the back verandah. It's all because of a stupid, irrational neighbour. I'm not into fighting with anyone about my cats. I live semI rural and there are cats everywhere. Mine get the blame for literally everything here. I've got two words for the neighbour and will instead let my cats live in their enclosure in the backyard where they can climb their tree, sleep in/on the cat post, scratch up old carpet, climb the climbing net, catch skinks (sorry little lizards! ) and we will be with a clear conscience from now on.

I don't have anything to add here. I just sidetracked with my own irrelevant story about awful people. I have never seen much soul or warmth in this neighbour, and I know she is the kind who would not think twice about bundling my cat up in her car and driving kilometres away to dump them. Bad people are reason enough for me to keep my cats restricted in their roaming.
 

Raerianna

Member
Eienna said:
@Raerianna: It's much better to play with a cat with something they can actually catch once in a while (like a toy on a fishing pole or somesuch.) Laser pointers have been known to actually make them obsessive/neurotic for that reason.
I was only using the pointer as an example My cats are spoiled and have multiple types of toys, the only time the pointer comes out is when I feel like they haven't gotten enough exercise chasing each other around.
 

LockedBox

Member
Everythingzen said:
I don't have anything to add here. I just sidetracked with my own irrelevant story about awful people. I have never seen much soul or warmth in this neighbour, and I know she is the kind who would not think twice about bundling my cat up in her car and driving kilometres away to dump them. Bad people are reason enough for me to keep my cats restricted in their roaming.
Yeah, ethical debate aside, people like that are real pieces of work. Someone dumped their cat on our road because she was pregnant, she was so thin when we found her that is was difficult not to notice. She was such a sweet cat too, she loved to be held and ride around on your shoulders. She'd pur like a motor boat whenever you touched her. I'd have loved to keep her but Mum and Dad didn't want to deal with a litter of kittens running loose through the house so we only kept her until the RSPCA could find her a home. I hope they're taking good care of her.
 

LyleB

Member
soltarianknight said:
It is natural for the cat to hunt yes. It is NOT natural for the birds to be hunted by a house cat. They are not native, the cats do unbalanced damage to the native populations. No different then any other invasive. They do not belong in the wilds of the U.S. and domestics do not belong in any wild anywhere. They have no need to hunt for their own food since we are supposed to care for them, they are a man made species.
I view them as very similar to human hunters/fisherman. No need for them to hunt or fish for food, but they enjoy it.

Just to add my own cat story:

I've only had one pet cat as an adult. He loved people, wanted as much people contact as he could get. He was neutered, and remained an indoor-only cat.

I lived in an upstairs apartment for a couple of years. It had a front door that only opened to a balcony, over the downstairs apartment porch. Had a rail around it, but no steps. The screen door was an old one, with just a spring to hold it closed. I let the cat out on the balcony a few times. The last time, while he was out there looking around, a loud truck drove by. Startled the cat, who grabbed the screen door, opened it, scooted into the house, and ran and hid under the bed. Hilarious, and the last time he wanted to go out on the balcony.
 

fishyluv

Member
soltarianknight said:
Strawman again darling. Hunting laws are in place to perserve, not destroy. Over population of prey animals is a deadly thing to us and them, hunting REGULATIONS are in place to help lower the population safely.
And like I said in one of my other post, It wouldn't be a problem with over population if the people would spay and neuter. Its not the animals fault, its the peoples fault. And by the way, I am only my husband's darling! lol
 

Meeps83

Member
I have to say, I've read these comments and am kind of cracking up at how worked up many members seem to be over this matter. I'm keeping my opinion to myself to not spark more controversy.

I actually saved 3 cats over the last few years. 2 came from a person who claimed she was taking in strays but had 18 kittens, 2 teenagers, and a few adults. They all had fleas and would have surely been left to repopulate the outdoor feline population and make sure the fleas were well fed. The other one was a teenaged house cat that couldn't figure out how to climb a tree or even catch a meal. He was very emaciated when we took him in, but a real sweetheart. My cats spend all of their time indoors. We have numerous dogs (including mine) that would love to make a meal of them. There is a large skunk, raccoon, possum, coyote, hawk, and owl population by our home. I'd be afraid to let the cats out for fear that they'd never make it back.
 

Shine

Member
I live in town now so all of my fuzzballs are indoors only by default. Main reason is that I don't trust people: the cars, the idiots that hate cats and will try to trap them or hurt them, the people that let their dogs roam free that might hurt them.... the list goes on.

When I lived on the farm our cats were all indoor/outdoor, and amazingly for over 20 years never had a single one hit by a vehicle, nor go missing due to wildlife. The only ones that came and went were the random wild toms that would move into the barn for short periods of time and vanish again. But they were never 'ours' and you could barely make eye-contact with them. From watching our cats for years I know that very few were actually 'bird' cats. Vast majority of them focused all their energies on mice, voles etc. Which on a farm is *more* then welcome.

The biggest problem with cats outdoors is the obscene overpopulation in urban centers due to humans not being responsible. And call it a 'strawman' argument if you will, but its humans who are the biggest threat to other species on this planet that there is. Cats kill birds, no argument. But unless you also want to call hunters killing deer "murder" as well.... I think the rhetoric is a bit over the top.
 

sirdarksol

Member
Shine said:
And call it a 'strawman' argument if you will, but its humans who are the biggest threat to other species on this planet that there is. Cats kill birds, no argument. But unless you also want to call hunters killing deer "murder" as well.... I think the rhetoric is a bit over the top.
The reason I called it a straw man argument is because it was. It was saying "this isn't important because this other, completely unrelated, thing happened." It's the very definition of that type of fallacy.
Comparing deer hunters to cats is completely off base. We set limits on the number of deer that can be hunted, and even if our science is off, we are trying to set these limits such that populations remain stable. Domesticated cats have no such limits, and again, they are invasive. No ecology in the world has been built to include the domesticated cat. And again, we know that cats have caused the extinctions of numerous species. Has humanity caused more extinctions in other ways? Yes. Does this mean that the extinctions caused by cats are insignificant? No.
 

Bumblebat

Member
You guys DO realize that cats HAVE wiped out native populations of certain animals, right? It's not just talk. It's already happening and has been happening for too long. Its not just small birds and mice. It's other native species that live off of those birds and mice, too. Their food supply is severely diminished. The raptor sanctuary I used to volunteer for regularly had injured owls come in that needed to be rehabilitated because people don't care.
It's actually environmentally devastating.
 

ZombieKeepr

Member
Bumblebat said:
You guys DO realize that cats HAVE wiped out native populations of certain animals, right? It's not just talk. It's already happening and has been happening for too long. Its not just small birds and mice. It's other native species that live off of those birds and mice, too. Their food supply is severely diminished. The raptor sanctuary I used to volunteer for regularly had injured owls come in that needed to be rehabilitated because people don't care.
It's actually environmentally devastating.
How can you say that people don't care? I have 9 cats and sure, the majority are kept in, but there are a few that are utterly miserable being kept inside every waking moment so they generally go out with us while we keep an eye on them. ONE of mine has to go out by herself because when she has to go to the bathroom, she will pee or poop on ANYTHING just because she won't use the liter box because, she doesn't like other cats.
 

sirdarksol

Member
<Mod hat>Personal attacks are not allowed. When discussing things, we can call out the arguments others are making, but if you've got to resort to targeting the one who said it, then it's best not to say anything at all.</mod hat>
 

cbowlincatfish

Member
Domesticated cats are a decendent of the big cats. It is in there nature to hunt I have raised cats most of my life and I don't have one now because of my bird and the dog that I lost a few months ago to cancer. If you are going to have a cat then you need to be responsible and spay or neuter and keep inside. A dog you can pin in the yard with a gate but you can't confine a cat when they are out side and then they become a nuisance to the ppl that live around you.
 

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