Why is Betta Fast Breathing?

Oblivion
  • #1
Ugh, Gandalf looks like he's breathing really fast/kind of hard. What's up with that?
 
Chief_waterchanger
  • #2
When is the last time a waterchange was done?
What %?
How often do you do them?
What is the temperature?
How much do you feed them?
Do you put water back in after waterchanges at the same temperature as the tank water?


Please, anytime a question is being asked try to include as much information as you possibly can, it will help us to help you. (that is a reminder to everyone, not just Oblivion. )
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
Yesterday
25%
Since the outbreak, every day
84 Solid
Him, an algae wafer
Yes, I tried to keep it similar

And I just noticed he was upside down! I thought he was dead but I knocked on the glass and he went right side up. This has happened twice now.
 
Chief_waterchanger
  • #4
Plecostomus do not lay upside down if healthy. (they will hang upside down on stuff, but not just lay on bottom like that, so yes it is sick)

How long have you had the pleco?

It has to be one of two things:

You bought poor quality fish -or- you are doing something wrong.

I would suggest taking the temp down to 82 degrees farenheit so that there is more oxygen in the water, for one thing.

I would suggest NOT buying anymore fish until your fish stop having problems, as well as NOT buying fish from the previous source ever again.

If the pleco dies I would not replace it until I stabilized my tank and had things run smoothly for a couple of months.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
I've had him for about a month
I have just killed all the ich in my tank so I had the temperature high for awhile.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
Could it be from my high ammonia? That's why I have been doing daily water changes for like the past week.
 
0morrokh
  • #7
High ammonia can cause fast breathing (I think). How long has the tank been set up? What are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #8
I think it could be water toxins (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) and the 84F temp. I'd 2nd CWCs post and am wondering what the current levels are now and if his gills show any unusual coloring or flukes?
 
Chief_waterchanger
  • #9
Did you not cycle the tank? Ammonia is only not under control if you haven't cycled the tank properly, or have excess food left to rot or dead fish left to rot. Make sure to stir half the substrate per week and not overfeed.

Dave and Omorrokh have you covered on the rest of it.
 
manjil
  • #10
The symptoms look like ammonia poisoning.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
Ya my ammonia has been high, that's why I have been doing daily water changes for like a week. I do stir up half of the tank too. I can't seem to get my ammonia down. And if you tell me not to get anymore fish, I know, I won't. Any good way I can lower my ammonia?
 
0morrokh
  • #12
The only way to get rid of ammonia is to wait for the filter bacteria to get established. Until then you're doing the right thing to do water changes to keep the ammonia levels from getting too high and poisoning your fish. If the ammonia's a problem you could use Prime which detoxes the ammonia without actually removing it so the tank can still cycle.
 
susitna-flower
  • #13
HI Oblivion, sounds like when you first set up your tank you needed to read all about the nitrogen cycle, BEFORE you added fish. Now.....25% a day water change is not enough if your ammonia is high.

You are not saying how high it is.....

Do you have a API Master Test Kit? This is the only way to get an accurate reading. If you don't take a sample into your LFS and have it tested.

Do 2 to 3 - 25 % changes every day until the ammonia goes down to 0.

What are the nitrites? Should be 0

What are the nitrates? Should read between 5 & 10

The outbreak you speak of was ick? If you have high ammonia, nitrites OR nitrates your fish are all stressed, and will be sick from anything from ick to fin rot, or ammonia poisening. That is just all there is to it. You can not keep fish healthy in bad water.

Over feeding is a common problem that contributes to bad water condition, even after the tank has cycled. How much and how often do you feed? Not that one algae wafer, I am talking about for all fish in the tank.
Until the water condition improves I might suggest cutting down on food to JUST what they will eat in a minute twice a day. Usually they say in 3 minutes, but this calls for even more of a cut back until your water conditions improve.

Stirring the gravel is not the same as vacuuming, are you doing that to try to get some of the waste out of the tank?

Your tank needs to build up the bacteria that convert the waste through the nitrogen cycle. But since you put fish in before the bacteria had a chance to grow, you now have to try and speed this up and at the same time keep your tank healthy. The waste in the gravel just adds to the problems, bacteria grow on all surfaces as well as in the filter, so don't scrub them. You can rince your filter out in luke warm water, but NOT hot or cold, and DO NOT change filter material. If you can find BIO-SPIRA, add it after you have the ammonia down to about 1 with water changes. That should add the good bacteria you need, and take care of speeding up the process.

Good Luck, :;rudolph
hope your Pleco survives.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
I did know about the Nitrogen cycle. I used a product that was the same thing as Bio-Spira before I got the fish. Then I did introduce the fish. And it's high...it's at least 1. I can't tell after that because the shades of green are too close for my eye to tell the difference. Nitrites/Nitrates are at 0. I don't overfeed. I do one algae wafer and 2 small pinches. About 7 individual flakes. And I do /use Prime.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
So I tell my step-dad about it, because he's been in the chemical business and treating water for many years, and he says to test the tap water. I was like I doubt it but ok. So I test the water and lo and behold, the readings show a mere .25 ammonia in the water. I'm glad I didn't do a bunch of water changes in a day now that I see my problem. So what should I do now? Is there a product that eliminates ammonia completely?
 
susitna-flower
  • #16
Bio-Spira is the only product that can work as quickly as you need. It is available from if not from your LFS.
.25 in tap water is still better than 1 and will dilute your ammonia. Once you have adequate bacteria in the tank, your tap water will not be a problem.

Are you using an API Master test kit? The shades of green on their card are hard to distinguished between .25 and.50, but by the time you get up to 1 and over you are WAY toxic!

You may know all about the nitrogen cycle, but if you have a fish in a tank with 1 ammonia, and 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates, you didn't apply what you know, what you do about it is your business, we can only advise.
 
jsalemi
  • #17
And for the record, there are no products out there that are the "same thing as Bio-Spira" -- there's Bio-Spira, and then there's everything else. Pretty much all of the other products that supposedly add bacteria to the tank don't add the right kind, so they're fairly useless. The only one that I've had experience with that seems to actually work is Seachem's Stability. Get yourself some and follow the directions.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
I have been and did use Seachem's Stability. And yes I have the API Master Test Kit. I had 0/0/0 readings with what then was 7 fish, for while, until the Ich came and messed up my water.
 
jsalemi
  • #19
Unless your tank is heavily planted, you should have some nitrates in the tank when it's cycled -- 0/0/0 sounds like the cycle may have collapsed.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
I did at the beginning, but I guess it went away in the Ich outbreak
 
0morrokh
  • #21
If you use prime it should detox the ammonia in your tap water. You will still get ammonia readings on your test kit though.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #22
Really hm...? Then how can I know if it's a toxic amount if the readings show high but the ammonia is detoxed?
 
0morrokh
  • #23
The Prime bottle says it removes up to .8 ppm of ammonia. So I'd try to keep your ammonia level under that (without prime you don't want it getting over .5 ppm anyway).
 
COBettaCouple
  • #24
we use Prime as our water conditioner and anytime the water testing shows anything other than 0 for ammonia or nitrites, we do extra water changes until we get the levels down.

Really hm...? Then how can I know if it's a toxic amount if the readings show high but the ammonia is detoxed?
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
So still just do daily water changes or what?
 
0morrokh
  • #26
The exact number and amount of waterchanges only you can really decide since you know the tank and fish. Generally you don't want ammonia levels over .5 ppm (that is, detoxified ammonia).
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
Ok. The fish seem better after I added a dose of Prime.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #28
I guess just keep using Prime til the ammonia is down and keep doing water changes?
 
0morrokh
  • #29
Prime is a good conditioner to use all the time.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #30
Yes, I'd do 25% at least daily until the ammonia is reading 0 or close to it. I agree that Prime is good to use all the time and all of our water is always treated with Prime.

I guess just keep using Prime til the ammonia is down and keep doing water changes?
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Wait...I have always treated the water that I'm about to put in the tank after I siphon out the gunk. Was I suppose to treat for 30 gallons or for the ammount in the bucket? 'Cause that's what I was doing, and I think I should have been treating for the whole 30 gallons? Because my fishies seem so much better and they are all out and swimming about. So don't treat by the water size you are putting in, but by how much the tank is? Ugh...if that's the case...I'm stupid -.-
 
jsalemi
  • #32
Well, if you're just conditioning the water to put in in the tank, then yes, you treat the bucket. But if you're using Prime to reduce the ammonia, etc. in the tank, then you use the proper amount for the whole tank and add it directly to the tank.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #33
we add the recommended amount of water conditioner to the water that we're going to add to the tank before we add it.
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #34
Hm...well I treated for the whole tank and they seem all happy now. Gandalf came out and scavenged around and Frodo is back from hiding...
 
jsalemi
  • #35
Yea, Prime and AmQual + work pretty fast.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #36
;D glad to hear that!

Hm...well I treated for the whole tank and they seem all happy now. Gandalf came out and scavenged around and Frodo is back from hiding...
 
Oblivion
  • Thread Starter
  • #37
Thanks guys... for the help again.
 

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