Why Are My Cherries Dying?

Dylanosborn13

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So, here is my setup:

5.5 gallons

Substrate: fluval shrimp stratum in back, fluorite in the front

Filter:
Light: Nicrew planted fish tank light

I use R/O water from a local grocery store and remineralize with salty shrimp gh/kh plus to around 240 ppm because my tap water comes out at almost 900 ppm.

Parameters:
Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0
Tds: 240
Gh: 10
Kh: 2
Ph: 6.7

Temperature: 69

I dose Flourish Excel every other day slightly below recommend (I dose what you would for a 5 gallon)
I did dose NilocG s (for shrimp) but when I did I came home to 3 dead shrimp.


5.5 gallon tank: an old tank that housed my fish before I rehomed them, they were in there for a few months, and then I scaped my tank and tried to do a dry start method on home dwarf baby tears but soon learned that wasn’t going to work, so I decided I was going to grow Monte Carlo instead. I planted the Monte Carlo, filled the tank and let it cycle for about a month and a half and then ordered 10 cherry shrimp. They came about a week later (the place only ships on Mondays and Thursdays). And then I drip acclimated them for 2 hours. They arrived around 1:00 and I couldn’t get home until 5:00, so I had my older sister put them in my room, which was heated to 74 degrees, I drip acclimated them and one died during the acclimation. I put them in the tank with a net, and the lights off in the tank. I woke up in the morning to one more dead. Then after almost a week, I dosed excel and nilocG and then went to school. When I got home 3 had died. At that point I was at 5 shrimp. So I stoped dosing the nilocG, but still dosed the excel every other day. No more shrimp died for a week or two. I was doing a bunch of research and then I figured out that all of my shrimp were girls, so I went to a LFS and bought 3 shrimp (I don’t really remember) and acclimated them the same. In the next week 2 of the ones from the LFS died. They would be all lethargic and then stop moving, and I would find them upside down or on their side twitching. I went back and bought 4 more and 3 died the same way within a week. And then this week 2 more died: the last one from the last round of LFS shrimp, and one that was either an original or from the first round of LFS shrimp. Also somewhere in that time I weened the shrimp off of a heater that was at 74 because I think it created a hotspot in the tank. It told me it was at 74 and my thermometer on the opposite corner said 71-72. There’s all sorts of food sources in the tank algae, bacteria, and even copepods if they eat those (idk)
I don’t know what kind of rock is in the tank because it didn’t say at the a different store (one I trust). I test the water frequently and all the Parameters are consistent. I have seen a moly for almost every shrimp I’ve put in the tank. Basically I have no idea what is killing these guys and it sucks because I wanted to breed these little guys. I have over $300 invested into this tank. If anyone can help me out I would be forever thankful.

Also If anyone can tell me the type of rock that would be appreciated
 

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richiep

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HI Dylan Dylan croeso welcome to fishlore sounds like there's something toxic gone on, first stop all your chemicals going in the tank
(flourish,excell&nylock) all these going into a shrimp tank can and will build up to a toxic level which shrimp.cznt take and do a 50% water change but make sure you drip the new water into your tank, any other way will shock them, your TDS,GH,KH are fine PH a little low for me and cherries but not life threatening, temperature again is low 72f 22.5c is best, your shrimp will become stressed at this level which leads to health problems, tell me you have two different tanks there what's the substrait in both.
Edit
Sorry I got engrossed in the rest of your post I missed the substrait there's no need to be adding chemicals with fluval stratum
 
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Dylanosborn13

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Ok I’ll stop the chemicals and do a water change tonight, I don’t know how I could raise the ph. Is the heater ok to put back in even if it’s a little warmer in the area around the heater?

Also I forgot I have root tabs in there too, I just read on the bottle it says that they’re .0001% copper. That’s not toxic levels right?
 

richiep

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That copper level is not toxic to shrimp its 0,03% per ltr but again another thing going into the tank that's not needed your substrate will do the job , don't worry about the ph the substrait is probably buffering it to6.5. put the heater back in but raise the temperature slowly there will always be a warm spot in that area when it's working, your tank in general is working fine it's the chemicals that's the problem, you could ask your lfs to do a copper test as well just to cover all avenues
Edit to many 0 in my copper
 
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Dylanosborn13

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Ok I’ll start weening them back onto the heater tomorrow. 3am and I’m still dripping the new water in the tank from the water change. Don’t wanna shock em. I’ll call my LFS tomorrow and see if they can test for copper

It’s also worth noting that not one of the shrimp from the LFS survived, and the ones that are still hanging in there are from the first 10. Could there Maybe something up with the shrimp from there?
 

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Its also possible a diseased shrimp was introduced but without photos we're blind, closeup photos of existing shrimp would be good to look at
I've recently seen an increase of a disease called Ellobiopsaide from people this is a problem in Asia where the shrimp are in dirty conditions and then imported and passed on to the lfs and passed on to you if left unchecked it will kill every shrimp in the tank, I'm still leaning towards chemicals in your case, it's also my opinion that if you can source from s private breeder diseased shrimp are few and far between
 
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Dylanosborn13

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Ok actually I do have a closeup if a shrimp that was at the top of the tank with sit nose almost sticking out of the water while it sat on the water sprite. It wouldn’t move and later I found him dead right below where he was sitting on the water sprite.

I know Ellobiopsaide is the green fungal infection around their swimmeret area and as far as I can tell there is none of that, the only other shrimp disease I know of is the one with the parasites on the rosterum and I don’t think I see any of that either so I really don’t think they’re diseased.
 

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richiep

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Ok great your up to speed on your diseases it makes things easier which still sprints towards toxicity, I can't see anything untoward on that one
How they doing after the water change
 
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Dylanosborn13

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they Seem like they’re moving around a lot more. There’s still shrimp acting strange but they might just be doing normal shrimp things that I’m not knowledgeable with. One is hiding behind the largest rock and won’t come out. She’s always been like that (granted the tank might have been toxic for a while) other than that they’re all moving around more.

Thanks for the help, sometimes it can be overwhelming. I can’t believe I didn’t think of a simple water change
 

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That sounds good it's very easy to overlook things when you get bogged down I know I've done it myself, things should tick over without the chemicals and hopefully those shrimp have not been affected to much, moving around more is a good sign
 
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Dylanosborn13

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I might do a smaller water change later this week as well. My goal is to breed a small colony. I’m 100% certain that these are all girl shrimp. How long do you think I should wait before buying more shrimp? Oh yeah and I discover some stag horn algae on my Monte Carlo . Never had it before. Also attached some pics just because. Last one is of the stag horn. Also I’m not going to be dosing excel anymore do you know of any other way to get co2 in there that won’t make me go broke?
 

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richiep

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You've got some nice looking shrimp in there,
Another water change would be a good idea especially as you know what your doing, I would hold off on adding more until you see these moult successfully so only a few weeks, I have active soil in all my tanks and add nothing at all just leave nature take its course the less we mess with our water I found the better results, I've attached a few photos of mine that don't get nothing except 12hrs of light and trimming back almost once a month, that algae could be a result of what's been happening on saying that I have a small amount in one of mine and don't know why so I use a small bristle brush and just roll the algae onto it,
 

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Dylanosborn13

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Sweet tanks! Yeah I’ll wait for them to molt sounds fair. And that second water change will come this week. Thanks so much for your help, I should’ve come sooner. I’ll probably do how you’re doing for now on, as far as all natural with the tanks. I’ll update you sometime or tell you if any others die, again thanks so much.
 

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If anything dose die take a few photos of it in the tank as it shows up better,
Hope it all goes well for you
 
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Dylanosborn13

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I celebrated too soon

I just got back from school and first thing I did was check on the tank and boom a dead shrimp in the back right corner of the tank. She looks weird. None of the other shrimp that have died looked like this. Her front half is ok, but milliner than normal, and her abdomen is black. I thought it might be a failed molt but I found no traces of a molt anywhere in the tank. Any thoughts? My only guess is that she died earlier in the morning and sat in there awhile, which would explain the front half being milkier. Just a thought. Could it be some disease?
 

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richiep

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It's a failed moult but don't worry just yet this could be a delay on what's happened this is why I said to wait before adding more, your perameters are fine, if your in thd UK I'll send you shrimp when your ready but hang in there
 
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Dylanosborn13

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Ok thanks. I live in the US so don’t worry about it. I don’t think there will be anymore failed moly’s because almost all of the 10 original shrimp molted a few days after they were put in. My guess is this guy was the one who was always hiding, because I don’t see her anywhere and she was super dark most brown. she also had eyes that were almost white. Is that a sign that they’re about to molt. I k ow it’s the same in snakes. Totally different animals but it could probably be similar. Anyways I’ll keep on keeping on. Edit- I was looking at my tank and remembered that when I put these rocks in I couldn’t get some of the stickers off. Do you think the adhesive could be toxic to the shrimp?
 

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Dch48

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A KH of 2 is not high enough. The shrimp will have molting problems and often die in the attempt. It needs to be at least 4.
 

richiep

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Glue can be toxic but normally the fumes ware off but it's possible. If the shrimp was white look up muscular necrosis and see if it matches
It may be worth pulling that rock
 

richiep

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Kh adjusts with ph and a ph of of 6.7 is ok with a kh of 2.
kh stabilises ph to stop fluctuations , with neocaradina its the gh that affects the moulting and when the gh goes below 5 neocaradina will experience moulting issues,
 

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