Why Algae ?

I've been watching my tank pretty closely and nitrate is around 7ppm; with nitrite and ammonia 0; yet I seem to be get a lot of stringy algae on the class.
Stock is:
8 smallish angels (from 1inch to 1/2 inch body);
5 zebra loaches
7 cardinals
2 swords
6 kuhli
7 sterbaI cat
1 bn pleco
1 panda cat
3 or 4 otto
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5 sword plants; some jungle val - some green Ludwigia Repens "Rubin" that is slowly turning red; 5 nana anubia and some java fern.
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I always thought algae meant high nitrate or overfeeding but I'm not having much luck controlling it.
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There is no sunlight hitting the tank - it is 120 gallon and I've reduced the lights to about 8 hours (I have one 48 inch fluval 3 and one 36 flueval 3.0). 'cept for guppies which came down with some strange sickness (they all bloated) everyone seems happy. (On the guppy I had 3 and purchased a one from the lfs - the one I purchased quickly died but within 10 days all 3 guppies bloated and died - luckily the other fishes seem immune from this guppy killer).
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I've mostly been avoiding water chances since the nitrates are staying low.
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btw if someone has a bucket of pest snails i'd take them to feed the loaches....

 

If you can’t find pest snails locally, go to the buy/sell forum - usually someone has them! I sell them myself but I’m temporarily out of everything but MTS.

 

High nitrate is just one reason for doing water changes. How long has it been since you did one? If you aren't doing regular water changes you may be leaving perfect food in there for the algae to thrive.

 

I have an indoor aquarium and an outdoor patio pond, so I have both the Freshwater and Pond Master test kits. The Pond test kit has a Phosphate test instead of Nitrate test. Algae feeds on phosphates and nitrates.

you should do weekly water changes even if nitrate is low. there are other wastes that we don't test for, and you're also replenishing minerals that the bacteria, plants, and fish consume.
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/large-or-small-water-changes-discussion.393921/

 

I did a 15 gallon change earlier this week. The tank was set up around May 9th. It did not have to cycle (or appears to have not needed to cycle) since I used old filter media; old sponge filter and old gravel that I moved from my old tank. I tested for nitrite and ammonia twice a week for 2 weeks and they stayed at 0 despite moving my old fishes and adding 20 new fishes (5 zebra loaches; 7 stebaI cory and 8 smallish angelfish). The new fishes have been in the tank for about 2 weeks and nitrite and ammonia remain 0 as of today (I also had the lfs test the water twice in case I was testing incorrectly and they had similar readings).

However, I do not have a phostate test so I can't comment on that - I have the apI liquid test kit (ph, nitrite, nitrate, ammonia) and an apI hardness test. hardness is a bit on the high side for angels but not intolerable.

High nitrate is just one reason for doing water changes. How long has it been since you did one? If you aren't doing regular water changes you may be leaving perfect food in there for the algae to thrive.

 

Ya gotta love being able to instantly cycle a tank. That is the beauty of having and already established tank. As you have just experienced, you never have to go through the long drawn out cycling process again.

A 15 gallon water change in a 120 gallon tank isn't going to do much for removing TDS. I do no less than 20 gallon weekly water changes on my 55 gallon tank. Most weeks I do more than that but never less than 20 gallons. I have to think that is why I have never had an algae outbreak and my fish have never come down with any of the many diseases I read about here on the forum every day.

You may want to consider much larger water changes.

 

On your tank I'd be doing no less than 30 gallon water changes weekly, with 45 or even 60 being much better. I know it's a lot but if you aren't heavily planted it's the only way you're going to keep nitrates at bay.

Are you dosing any fertilizers at all?

 

Stringy algae? is it a olive green, grass green, or Blue green? Figuring out the algae will help solve the issue.
On guppies, livebearers are very susceptible to bacterial infections. When I had live bearers the moment one got sick I dosed with antibiotics.

 

I've been checking nitrate; it hasn't gone above 10ppm. I use about 1/10 recommended dose of fertilizer since the plants seem to be doing ok.

On your tank I'd be doing no less than 30 gallon water changes weekly, with 45 or even 60 being much better. I know it's a lot but if you aren't heavily planted it's the only way you're going to keep nitrates at bay.

Are you dosing any fertilizers at all?

I've always sucked at identifying algae; it is only on the glass and I think it is close to olive green.

Whatever it was it didn't seem to impact the swords (I had 3 guppies and two swordtails left over - they were welcome to stay but i'm not going to replace them as this is ment to be an angel and loach tank with a few cardinals; yea yea I did get that pretty tequlia guppy that killed them off but i'm a sucker for red and white).

Stringy algae? is it a olive green, grass green, or Blue green? Figuring out the algae will help solve the issue.
On guppies, livebearers are very susceptible to bacterial infections. When I had live bearers the moment one got sick I dosed with antibiotics.

 

Well that means its not cyanobacteria, which is blue green, and easily killed with antibiotics.
Is it actual strings/treads of algae that drift in the water, or is it clinging to the glass completely and just grows in string-like ways? You can take a picture too, which might help to figure out a way to kill it off or control it.

 

Well that means its not cyanobacteria, which is blue green, and easily killed with antibiotics.
Is it actual strings/treads of algae that drift in the water, or is it clinging to the glass completely and just grows in string-like ways? You can take a picture too, which might help to figure out a way to kill it off or control it.

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Here are two pictures - one shows algae on a plant (this is the only plant that has algae problem and it is dying but not from algae - was recent purchase at lfs and the stem melted the second picture shows a healthy plant that was purchased on ebay around the same time - it is suppose to turn red under lighting and has slowly been doing so - approx 10 days old. The algae on that picture is the glass but you see a reflection of the plant off the glass as well as in foreground. The intention is for that plant to grow large enough to cover the ehiem intake.

 

I can't see the first very well, but the second could be brush algae, you can dose Flourish Excel(can cause crypts/anacharis to melt though), which will typically cause the algae to turn orange/brown and fall off. I think your main problem is not enough plants. You are most likely dosing ferts to much for the few plants you have so you end up growing algae.
You can keep algae under control in the long run by adding more plants, but for the meantime excel is your friend. Its a source of carbon and is a plant fertilizer, so won't harm plants, invertebrates, or fish as long as the correct dose is used.

 

The first is that typical algae you get on the glass. I can try to take another picture but it is a thin tough coat - it hasn't gotten dense enough that it stands off the glass. The fertilizer i'm using are root tabs for the sword/jungle val and excel but the dose is pretty light - I hate putting chemicals in my tank. I've been debating between buying more plants and waiting a month to see how the stuff I have grows. It was growing well in the 40 (the jungle val started as a small group and quickly filled the entire short edge). The aponogeton just sent up a flower stalk (growing about 5 inches today); i'm waiting to see if this is the type that has to be removed from the tank (they say if it is purple you don't have to remove it). The swords were growing well but died back a bit after I moved - waiting to see if they pick up. I added 3 plants since the move ( Ludwigia Repens "Rubin") from ebay which has sent out roots and new leaves in a week; a ludwigia of some type from the lfs which melted (why did it melt?) and anacharis which I hope to float. It is sending out roots and growing new sections (I hope to make it a floating plant but worry it will block too might light from the lower plants). I have 5 nana anubias (3 on a driftwood and 1 free planted) - the free planted one and two of the ones on the driftwood sent out new leaves this past week - so i'm seeing some positive growth in the plants - the major downer are the red sword plants did not appreciate the move but I think they might recover.
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Anyway not sure if I should use more excel or less - as I said i'm using approx 1/10 the recommended dosage.
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Also I'm worried my fish load is too high for a 120 - current set including hte ones I purchased today are:
3 clown loaches (small - approx 1 to 1.5 inches)
8 angels - one of the small ones has nearly double in size in approx 8 days but the rest are mostly around nickel size - the one with the growth spurt is somewhere between quarter and 1/2 dollar.
11 cardinals (7 old ones from before the move and 4 new ones today - I find if you have a flock the new ones quickly adapt when they see the flock).
5 or 6 otto (2 new ones today - i'm suppose to have 4 but can never find more than 3)
6 orange/black loaches (1 myersI (sp); 1 sentical; 4 khulI khuli)
5 zebra (botia stratia) (I hope the 3 clown school with them instead of getting stressed - but heck the zebras don't even school with the zebra.
2 swordtails (I gave the female back to the shop the one fry that lived turned out to be a female. she is small - maybe 1.5 to 2 inches - the mother was 4 to 4.5 inches - but she looks like she might have frys soon).
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I'd like to get some kubotia (sp) botia but worry about the bio load. Didn't really want 8 angels and not sure what I will do with them when they get larger - right now they love schooling together but when they get older the fighting will start.
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I know the clowns will get very large but in 2 years I'll probably end up with a tank taht is 8lx2wx20inches high which should be large enough for the clowns if they don't grow too fast in 2 years.

 

Excel is not a fertilizer, it is a glutaraldehyde (used to sterilize hospital equipment) based algaecide. It will not give your plants any nutrients and claims of it being an alternative to CO2 are laughable.

In effect you have been starving your plants and because you are putting in such a light dose of Excel it isn't even phasing any algae.

No nutrients for plants means they can't compete with algae. No growth, no allelopathic inhibitors.

This, coupled with what are probably high levels of waste organics from insufficient water changes, have created the perfect recipe for nuisance algae to take over.

EDIT: Corrected post

 

So trahana suggest flourish excel and you call it rubbish. How can I know which answer is the better? I tried it to solve a specific issue (which it seemed to solve in my old tank). Also I am using root tabs for the plants with large root systems.
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I can't measure phostate but I know nitrate is quite low... either the plants are sucking it out or it will take longer to build up. As of this morning the nitrate was close to 5ppm (orange on the apI liquid test kit).

Excel is not a fertilizer, it is a glutaraldehyde (used to sterilize hospital equipment) based algaecide. It will not give your plants any nutrients and claims of it being an alternative to CO2 are laughable.

In effect you have been starving your plants and because you are putting in such a light dose of Excel it isn't even phasing any algae.

No nutrients for plants means they can't compete with algae. No growth, no allelopathic inhibitors.

This, coupled with what are probably high levels of waste organics from insufficient water changes, have created the perfect recipe for nuisance algae to take over.

EDIT: Corrected post

 

So trahana suggest flourish excel and you call it rubbish. How can I know which answer is the better? I tried it to solve a specific issue (which it seemed to solve in my old tank). Also I am using root tabs for the plants with large root systems.
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I can't measure phostate but I know nitrate is quite low... either the plants are sucking it out or it will take longer to build up. As of this morning the nitrate was close to 5ppm (orange on the apI liquid test kit).

Excel is great for algae management. But it does almost nothing for plant growth.

Also what brand of root tabs? If it is Flourish they are devoid of macro nutrients that plants need most, such as nitrogen and potassium.

Even in water with 0ppm nitrates you can still get algae if there are excessive organics and unhealthy plants. Having too few plants with too much light is also a contributing factor.

Look up Liebig's Law of Minimums.

 

What brand of root tabs do you recommend? I have some liquid stuff - thrive+ which is suppose to have potassium but haven't been using it.
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My plant load is approx 5 swords (2 red 3 various greens - the greens are moderately large with new leaves - the reds are struggling); 6 or 7 large (30+ inches leaves) jungle val. the other stuff mentioned above isn't very large but the red lugwinda is suppose to grow large if I give it a bit of time.

Excel is great for algae management. But it does almost nothing for plant growth.

Also what brand of root tabs? If it is Flourish they are devoid of macro nutrients that plants need most, such as nitrogen and potassium.

Even in water with 0ppm nitrates you can still get algae if there are excessive organics and unhealthy plants. Having too few plants with too much light is also a contributing factor.

Look up Liebig's Law of Minimums.

 

What brand of root tabs do you recommend? I have some liquid stuff - thrive+ which is suppose to have potassium but haven't been using it.
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My plant load is approx 5 swords (2 red 3 various greens - the greens are moderately large with new leaves - the reds are struggling); 6 or 7 large (30+ inches leaves) jungle val. the other stuff mentioned above isn't very large but the red lugwinda is suppose to grow large if I give it a bit of time.

You have Thrive+ and haven't used it?! That's one of the best liquid fertilizers on the market. Of course the "+" version is very concentrated and intended for very high demand systems with CO2.

They make root tabs as well which do have macro nutrients.

Sounds like your plantload isn't very high, either.

 

I purchased the + for potatisum; however I ahvent' been using it because I was worried it would start algae until the plants were re-established.

You have Thrive+ and haven't used it?! That's one of the best liquid fertilizers on the market. Of course the "+" version is very concentrated and intended for very high demand systems with CO2.

They make root tabs as well which do have macro nutrients.

Sounds like your plantload isn't very high, either.

 

Fahn has a lot of valid points.
Also, the idea that you shouldn't put chemicals in your tank is laughable, since humans, plants and food are chemicals. Everything you can breathe, see, ingest or touch is made up of chemicals. All matter, including us, is made of chemicals.
So add chemicals to your tank, especially fertilizers.