Who Should We Listen to/Believe?

Just a general question. There is conflicting information with some of the big suppliers. Petsmart has clown loaches listed as 40+ gallons. I think petco had something similar listed. Recently Petco set there site up so that you get taken to liveaquaria, if you want to buy fish online. That site says clown loaches need 100+ gallons. The Petco site used to also say Yellow Tangs needed 55 gallons, but the liveaquaria site says they need 100 gallons. Liveaquaria also lists Silver Hatchet fish as Carnivore, 20 gallons, and Difficult. Petsmart lists them as 10 gallons, Intermediate, and Omnivore. Then you have aqua advisor that says schools of 4+, Petsmart that says 5+ and people on here whose favorite number is 6+.

As for silver hatchet fish, they do like to eat the blood worm I feed them in my 20 gallon tank, but I wouldn't consider them difficult to take care of. The biggest issue with hatchet fish is that they jump. You always need to keep a lid on your tank and seal every hole, so they don't jump to their death like one of mine did when it found an opening. Because of the issue with jumping I would consider them intermediate like Petsmart does. You need to be somewhat responsible, if you are going to buy some.

 

I don't believe either, personally. Both Petsmart and Liveaquaria are trying to sell you things, so they will skew the numbers in favor of more sales, rather than accurate information.

For freshwater fish I use seriouslyfish, and for saltwater fish I have yet to find a good resource so I just use my best judgment (A 1' fish won't work in a 55 gallon tank. A very active fish should have more space than a fish that doesn't move a lot)

In this hobby, I find it best to take consider the advice of those more experienced.

 

I wouldn't listen to any of those. They're just trying to make money.
Liveaquaria.....nope.
Petco....nope.
Petsmart.....nope.
Aqadvisor.....nope.

I would listen to experienced people on here, rather than those places.
6 is just a minimum. Your schooling fish would appreciate it far more if you had them in group of 10 or 15.

Hatchet fish need at least a 20 long, imo.
Oh, and clown loaches get a foot long, way too big for a 40g. They need at least a 150 gallon since they prefer to live in groups of 6+.

 

I depend on Fishlore for the best advice. Not every post will you find everyone in agreement all the time but if you will listen to the experienced members (and I don't consider myself to be one) here you really can't go wrong.

 

I'm relatively new on here but I can vouch for Anders247, LiterallyHydro and many of the other ViPs, and moderators. They have never lead me astray and they always go above and beyond for anyone and what they do not know personally they know someone who does know the answer and can send you to them. These guys rock! I am always picking their brains and learning from their years of experience.

 

I wouldn't listen to any of those. They're just trying to make money.
Liveaquaria.....nope.
Petco....nope.
Petsmart.....nope.
Aqadvisor.....nope.

I would listen to experienced people on here, rather than those places.

They sound just like the LFS's (local fish stores) here in England.......... I agree totally

 

Let me put it this way; are you going to believe everything that a seller says? No, your probably going to look at reviews to see if it will work or if its a good product. consider this the review section of fishkeeping

 

Can't...stop...watching the dancing banana line from Elliot's last post...

 

Can't...stop...watching the dancing banana line from Elliot's last post...

I may have just unleashed the zombie apocalypse...

 

Good responses so far.

I was just trying to point out a big problem with fish keeping when it comes to buying. I guess the easy, intermediate, difficult is more of a matter of opinion kind of like the loud/quiet pump reviews. Like I said, hatchet fish aren't all that hard to take care of, if you are at least a teenager. It probably isn't a good pet for a child in early grade school who can be easily distracted though because they might forget to put the lid back on after they feed them.

 

I don't think there's an easy, intermediate, or difficult in fishkeeping to be honest. There's just fish that are more forgiving and others that demand maintenance be done at all times (Discus, for example) But they would both require the same maintenance.

 

Listen to Fishlore! *this is an unendorsed/unbiased post*

On a serious note, the only viable answer I can give is if someone isn't going to make any gains or losses by helping you, and yet they help you anyway - those are the ones to listen to. Obviously there are exceptions, but that's how I see it.

 

Listen to Fishlore! *this is an unendorsed/unbiased post*

On a serious note, the only viable answer I can give is if someone isn't going to make any gains or losses by helping you, and yet they help you anyway - those are the ones to listen to. Obviously there are exceptions, but that's how I see it.

But what if that person is wrong and they believe it is ok to put a clown loach in a small tank because everyone they have talked to said it is ok?

 

But what if that person is wrong and they believe it is ok to put a clown loach in a small tank because everyone they have talked to said it is ok?

Their may be a person that comes along and says that every once and a while but their will be plenty of others that tell otherwise and will be right

 

Although I am not new to the hobby, I am new to this site and there are a good amount of knowledgeable people on here

 

Then they would be the exception to the rule You always have a account for human error.

 

I disagree to a point. Listen to them all. Get as much information as you can from multiple sources. If you are looking for a go to source you can always trust I say it doesn't exist. What works for one person may not work for you. I try to find a general consensus and figure out why people believe what they believe. I've found there are no really good sources of information, just good intentions or people trying to sell you stuff. There are a ton of people I trust are telling me the truth on this site but I always try to verify other places if possible.

If you look deeper into the clown loach issue most people suggest that loaches are much happier in groups. I have a mix of yoyo loaches and angelicus loaches. Ideally I would have all yoyos but I had a hard time finding more yoyos and thought 3 each is better than only 3 yoyos. They play constantly and interact so overall I'm pretty happy. I assume clown loaches would need the same type of interaction. Also, clown loaches eventually get up to 10 to 12 inches and have a pretty significant bioload. So when you talk about putting six 10 to 12 inch bottom dwellers that are active swimmers in a 55 gallon that sounds a bit crazy. I wouldn't even put them in a 100 gallon tank. A 150 or 180 would be the minimum in my mind.

 

Listen to them all. Get as much information as you can from multiple sources. If you are looking for a go to source you can always trust I say it doesn't exist. What works for one person may not work for you. I try to find a general consensus and figure out why people believe what they believe.

Preach it.

 

Honestly? I research all over the internet, PetSmart, Petco, and LiveAquaria included. Even with the people on Fish Lore I'm careful to find facts backing up what they say on numerous websites.

My advice? I wouldn't trust one place/website/person alone. I'm a thorough researcher, therefore I find it important to have other sources backing up what I do. I personally think LiveAquaria often overdoes it with their recommended tank sizes for fish, but I think PetSmart doesn't recommend a big enough tank for some fish. Fish Lore is an excellent place for info, but I still don't throw everything into it without other sources backing it up.

I just don't put all my money into one place, and that's my way and opinion.

 

Read my signature. lol I think that is the best advice you can get. Dont take 1 persons word for something. Get many opinions and if there is a common viewpoint, then you can explore that option. I will research a lot of the sites mentioned here and some that aren't to get a general idea what is suggested in a scenario then I might post a question here to get advice of members and see if the information matches. If it does, great. If it doesn't, then I have to decide for myself which to believe, the people who have nothing to gain or lose by me doing what they say, or the people trying to make money off of me? I know who I would believe in that case..

 

Honestly, not sure why you'd want to even bother looking at sites that are chock full of bad info like live aquaria, petco and petsmart. I look at sites like fishbase, seriously fish, and if the particular fish has a forum dedicated to them, I join that and ask the experts there.

Just my opinion.....

 

The problem is, those sites are chock full of bad info in someone else opinion. If a lot of people agree with that opinion, great. I can accept that. If there is 1 or 2 that agree with it and others that disagree.. then that is where the problem is. Just because a site like Live Aquaria has some things that aren't accurate, does it mean the whole site is garbage and shouldn't be used as a resource? I don't think so. I think you need to take the source and put it in context of what it is and what their business is in the topic you are researching and give it a weight when making final decision. Yes they are trying to sell you something, so that will make me a little more suspicious of their facts, but they can't post complete lies on everything or they wouldn't still be in business. I don't think your average joe fish keeper with a 20 gallon tank is going to buy their fish from live aquaria that charges higher than normal prices and expensive shipping costs, they are going to be used by people who want better quality fish and likely have lots of tanks or big tanks. Those people would, theoretically, have the knowledge to know if the site is right or wrong, and if I saw nothing but lies on a vendors website, no matter what business we are doing, I wouldn't even consider it. Does that make any sense?

Forums are hard to use when trying to get advice, because everyone has an opinion so you have to know who to believe. Common sense, research, and general consensus of opinions based on experience make the decisions easier, but it is ultimately up to you.

 

Nope, you're right the whole thing isn't garbage.
BUT. If there's other info from sites that I have found to be far more reputable and that I trust I use them instead. LiveAquaria also doesn't have as much info as other sites like SF do, if you haven't noticed.

 

Nope, you're right the whole thing isn't garbage.
BUT. If there's other info from sites that I have found to be far more reputable and that I trust I use them instead. LiveAquaria also doesn't have as much info as other sites like SF do, if you haven't noticed.

I agree, I never said SF and others shouldn't be used, I was just saying that you shouldn't throw out a library of information just because is a company trying to make money in the business.

I will look up on several websites, SF, Planet Catfish, cichlid sites and forums, basically anything google pops up with I will see what they have to say, look at the website and judge it on accuracy compared to the others I have seen.

 

I agree, I never said SF and others shouldn't be used, I was just saying that you shouldn't throw out a library of information just because is a company trying to make money in the business.

I will look up on several websites, SF, Planet Catfish, cichlid sites and forums, basically anything google pops up with I will see what they have to say, look at the website and judge it on accuracy compared to the others I have seen.

I agree. The best way to find out if something will work is to check numerous sources (Petsmart/Petco, Liveaquaria, SeriouslyFish, AqAdvisor, Fishlore profiles, Wikipedia if they had a lot to say on a particular species etc)

Ater you check your sources, you should then go on a forum and talk to some experienced people about what would work. If every source has something in common, it's safe to assume that it is correct.

 

Another good forum is betta source. It's for bettas only obviously. And I think Junebug is one there
SF, planet catfish, and fish base are good sources to look at
Only check petco or petsmart for PRICES if you want to shop their fish

 

I don't think there's an easy, intermediate, or difficult in fishkeeping to be honest. There's just fish that are more forgiving and others that demand maintenance be done at all times (Discus, for example) But they would both require the same maintenance.

Which I guess you could say is another way of saying beginner, intermediate, or advanced. Or easy, moderate, difficult, expert only like some other sites. When I was looking into stocking my tank I became interested in hatchet fish and was a little scared at first to consider them since they were listed as intermediate on the Petsmart site, but then I discovered that had to do with the fact they are jumpers. I'm an adult, so I can handle that issue. I keep my lid mostly on when cleaning my tank and keep my eyes on them incase they jump which they have done before. I think listing a skill level for each fish is good because it will raise red flags and cause people to do a little more research that is probably needed for some breeds before you buy them.

 

Which I guess you could say is another way of saying beginner, intermediate, or advanced. Or easy, moderate, difficult, expert only like some other sites. When I was looking into stocking my tank I became interested in hatchet fish and was a little scared at first to consider them since they were listed as intermediate on the Petsmart site, but then I discovered that had to do with the fact they are jumpers. I'm an adult, so I can handle that issue. I keep my lid mostly on when cleaning my tank and keep my eyes on them incase they jump which they have done before. I think listing a skill level for each fish is good because it will raise red flags and cause people to do a little more research that is probably needed for some breeds before you buy them.

I see where you're coming from, but the reason I say that there isn't necessarily an easy intermediate or difficult label for any fish is because they all need the same maintenance.

Just because a fish is going to perish because you're not doing water changes doesn't make the fish hard to keep, it just means that you're being lazy. For someone who keeps up with their maintenance, keeping Discus can be just as easy as keeping Zebra Danios imo.

 

I see where you're coming from, but the reason I say that there isn't necessarily an easy intermediate or difficult label for any fish is because they all need the same maintenance.

Just because a fish is going to perish because you're not doing water changes doesn't make the fish hard to keep, it just means that you're being lazy. For someone who keeps up with their maintenance, keeping Discus can be just as easy as keeping Zebra Danios imo.

I don't know anything about Discus, but if you have to be more strict with water changes to keep it alive then it probably should be considered intermediate while other breeds that can survive dirty water a little longer should be considered beginner and better suited for a young child.

 

For someone who keeps up with their maintenance, keeping Discus can be just as easy as keeping Zebra Danios imo.

I have the worst luck with zebra danios.

 

I have the worst luck with zebra danios.

Really? Guess some people have better luck with different types of fish than others.

 

It's probably that I tried keeping them at 77-78 F. I started with 10 at one point and added a few along the way after losing some. I'm down to one now. I do better with neon tetras and GBRs than danios.

 

Yeah, I lost all three of my neons within a couple of weeks or so after buying them, lost them to ich, possibly due to the fact that I wasn't aware that they needed a heater......

 

I see where you're coming from, but the reason I say that there isn't necessarily an easy intermediate or difficult label for any fish is because they all need the same maintenance.

Just because a fish is going to perish because you're not doing water changes doesn't make the fish hard to keep, it just means that you're being lazy. For someone who keeps up with their maintenance, keeping Discus can be just as easy as keeping Zebra Danios imo.

I guess a better example would be saltwater fish. Some of them say sg 1.023-1.025 care level: moderate. Others say sg 1.020-1.025 care level: easy. Someday I would like to have a nice saltwater tank. If that ever happens I will probably go with creatures that have an sg of 1.020-1.025 just so I have more room for error, if something goes wrong with the water parameters.

But like I said with the freshwater example, I have to hold the lid over my tank with one hand while cleaning it and use the other hand to scrub the sides of the tank because I have hatchet fish in there. Plus like with most freshwater tropical fish, you have to keep the water temperature between 72 F and 82 F. My two 7 year old cousins on the other hand have had goldfish for 2 years now in a tank with no lid, or heater and they are still alive. I would say a goldfish would be a much better option for a young child since they wouldn't have to deal with the extra issues that come along with caring for a hatchet fish. On the other hand a hatchet fish can be a quite enjoyable pet for an adult that understands the extra steps it takes to care for them that don't have to be taken with some other breeds.

 

I guess a better example would be saltwater fish. Some of them say sg 1.023-1.025 care level: moderate. Others say sg 1.020-1.025 care level: easy. Someday I would like to have a nice saltwater tank. If that ever happens I will probably go with creatures that have an sg of 1.020-1.025 just so I have more room for error, if something goes wrong with the water parameters.

But like I said with the freshwater example, I have to hold the lid over my tank with one hand while cleaning it and use the other hand to scrub the sides of the tank because I have hatchet fish in there. Plus like with most freshwater tropical fish, you have to keep the water temperature between 72 F and 82 F. My two 7 year old cousins on the other hand have had goldfish for 2 years now in a tank with no lid, or heater and they are still alive. I would say a goldfish would be a much better option for a young child since they wouldn't have to deal with the extra issues that come along with caring for a hatchet fish. On the other hand a hatchet fish can be a quite enjoyable pet for an adult that understands the extra steps it takes to care for them that don't have to be taken with some other breeds.

Goldfish are cold-water species meaning they actually shouldn't have a heater (Which is also why they can't live with most tropical fish) But on the flip side, goldfish also produce a huge amount of waste, so they have their own set of difficulties in that they require you to service the filter more often if you want to have a healthy, happy aquarium.

But I'm not going to try to change your opinion on whether some fish are more difficult than others, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

My local fish store has some pretty knowledgeable people when it comes to fish. Well saltwater fish anyway, they don't know much about freshwater snails, newts or salamanders.

 

Goldfish are cold-water species meaning they actually shouldn't have a heater (Which is also why they can't live with most tropical fish) But on the flip side, goldfish also produce a huge amount of waste, so they have their own set of difficulties in that they require you to service the filter more often if you want to have a healthy, happy aquarium.

But I'm not going to try to change your opinion on whether some fish are more difficult than others, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yeah I know and that kind of makes it a little easier since you don't have to worry about controlling the temperature. As for the bio load, I was told goldfish are more hardy than some other breeds. That isn't a bad starter fish then incase you don't have the cleanest water when just learning how to care for a fish.

 

Yeah I know and that kind of makes it a little easier since you don't have to worry about controlling the temperature. As for the bio load, I was told goldfish are more hardy than some other breeds. That isn't a bad starter fish then incase you don't have the cleanest water when just learning how to care for a fish.

Goldfish are hardy, but without proper maintenance the nitrates in the tank will shoot into the hundreds very quickly. I wouldn't call them good beginner fish if only because they do require more frequent maintenance than other fish. Also that they get pretty large and need 40+ gallon aquariums to house them comfortably.

 

it's too bad gold fish are kept in such bad conditions at pet stores, people often think of them as disposable since they are so cheap. I think at my lfs they are .33 cents a fish.

 

it's too bad gold fish are kept in such bad conditions at pet stores, people often think of them as disposable since they are so cheap. I think at my lfs they are .33 cents a fish.

That's partially because a lot of them are so small. Often with any breed the smaller they are the cheaper they are. Some of the larger goldfish at petsmart are actually kept alone and cost $31.