White cloud minnow behaving strangely

jen21

Please can I have some advice - I have a white cloud minnow in a tank of 6 who is behaving very strangely. I've had them for several months now but since I added the last 2 she began behaving differently. She tends to stay still for the majority of the time away from all the others. When feeding she is bullied by the others so eats very little and is subsequently smaller than them now.

Any advice would be appreciated, I have been to the aquatic store several times now and they can't seem to identify what's wrong. I was concerned it is a disease but also aware it may be stress?
 

SereneReyn

without more information, it's difficult to say what the problem is. what are all of your water parameters? (please don't use strips to get these) ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, temperature? if all of these are perfect then my other questions would be... what size is the tank and what are ALL of the occupants? have you added decorations/wood/anything just prior to her lethargy? does she have white/stringy poo? anything at all that is visibly out of the norm? like around the gills/mouth/bum in particular? is her belly bloated, despite the fact that she eats little? any other details you can think of?
 

jen21

I use a nutrafin water test kit and all measurement are normal. Nitrate was slightly high a few weeks ago so I have been treating the water for a few hours before changing it.

The fish are 2 white clouds, 1 zebra danio, 2 glow light tetras and 1 leopard danio. There are no obvious signs of illness at all as you have described.

The aquariam is a baby biorb with 2 plants.
 

SereneReyn

it sounds like stress to me. there could be a number of factors as to why. 1) you didn't say how big your tank is, I don't know what a baby biorb is. 2) i'm not sure I understand why you would treat the water before changing it? do you mean you're treating clean water to replace what you take out? what are you treating it with? (I use Novaqua+, you can't over-do it and it adds other good stuff) 3) I think minnows like schools... more of their own kind - in fact I think that all the fish you have like schools, and none appear to have enough of their own kind to really be 'happy'. 4) that you say nitrate was high a few weeks ago, indicates to me that you're not habitually changing the water - only when you think it needs it. I would recommend you make this a regular schedule of say 25% weekly (provided you're not overcrowded, and if you are, then more often), but that the first time, you might want to do say 50%. 5) your fish could be constipated... try some peeled frozen pea bits.

if none of the above helps, then I would research parasites, particularly internal ones. parasite clear seems to work well, from my experience. good luck!
 

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore.

I'd recommend a separate tank for her and maybe a few white cloud minnows that are her size or smaller. I don't think she's sick, but being bullied and not able to eat much will lead to illness.
 

jen21

I change the water every week, approx 25-30%. yes, sorry I meant I treat the new water before putting it in the tank. I treat it with Nitrateminus, cycle and aqua plus. The nitrate levels are quite high in our tap water which is why the readings came back high.
I might try a separate tank with more of her own as suggested above as she seemed fine before I added the last 2 fish (zebra and leopard danio).
Thanks for the help
 

COBettaCouple

Cycle contains a different type of bacteria than what you normally try to get when cycling a tank, so it will collapse if you ever stop using it and it prevents the good bacteria from developing unfortunately, as well as creating mini-cycles that are hard on your fish.
 

Lucy

HI Jen, If I haven't said it before, Wecome to Fish Lore.

I googled baby Biorb, they are a little over 7 US gallons.

Unfortunatly your tank is over stocked.

2 white clouds, 4"
1 zebra danio, 2"
2 glow light tetras 3"
1 leopard danio 1.5"

That's 10.5 inches of fish in a 7 gallon tank.

It could be that your ammonia is up. The last 2 fish might have pushed you over your bio-load limit.

Good luck.
 

Evelyn1919

hI Jed and welcome to fishlore!

there is a lot of people who can give great advice. I also googled baby biorb and like Lucy said your tank is overstocked which is probably why your fish is not doing good.
what are your readings for ammonia, nitrate, pH and nitrite? you said that your readings are normal but don't say what they are. you also say that your nitrates are high but no numbers.
and like Serene said the fish you have are schooling fish so they are going to want to have more of their own kind.

hope the information given here helps.

good luck!!!
 

jen21

I'll test the water again tomorrow and post the readings. I did decide to buy another tank today to remove her as she's much smaller than the others, it's all set up so just have to wait a few days before I can move her. I will probably move the other white cloud with her, although this ones slightly bigger they seem to get on well. Then perhaps add a couple more, the tank I've bought is 20 litre so 5 litres bigger than the baby biorb so should be fine with 4 of them.

Thanks for all the help and advice, it's difficult to diagnose a problem when there are no visible signs of illness.
 

COBettaCouple

Yea, those are hard. Best of luck with her and the new tank.
 

sirdarksol

Another thing to consider is that White Clouds are temperate fish (they don't require a super-stable temperature) while the others are tropical (they like to have a temp that stays at a certain temperature, usually over 75 and under 80, though there are exceptions).
If the White Cloud is being kept at a stable, higher temperature, this might be adding to the stress. The good news about this is that you don't need a heater for the second tank.
 

seedy

HI jen21
Danios are well known to chase each other and other fish. Being small, she could be the one being picked on.
 

jen21

I tested the water over the weekend and the levels were:
Ammonia - undetectable
Nitrite - >0.1
Nitrate - approx 20 (still using nitriteminus to gradually reduce)
PH - 7.0

She seemed to be deteriorating more and was just resting on the surface so I have moved her. She's much more active in the new tank but is still spending a lot of time at the surface and now has 2 grey marks on her gills, could this be a new sign of disease. she certainly seems better than before but these new marks are worrying me.
 

Lucy

20 liters is less than the 1 I googled. (20 Liter = 5.28 US gallons)
The one I saw was 12x12x12.

I'm glad she seems much more active. Can you post a pic, maybe that will everyone figure out what's going on with her.

What type of test kit are you using?
 

jen21

HI Lucy,

I have added 2 picures to my gallery, the one with a couple of fish is her in March and the latest one I have just taken.

I'm not sure if this will work as I haven't added photos before.

Thanks again for the help.
Jen
 

Lucy

Sorry Jen, I can't see the picture. Go advanced and way down at the bottom you'll see 'manage my attachements'
I hope that works for you.

Your welcome, but I haven't been much help, sorry.

How is she feeling tonight?
 

jen21

Here we go again, hope it works this time.

She seems a lot perkier today but I haven't seen her eat for a couple of days, perhaps she likes peace and quiet when she's eating
 

COBettaCouple

What are you currently feeding her?
 

jen21

I feed her nutrafin max flakes. I have read recently that you should vary their diet so I was going to try and get some different types.
 

COBettaCouple

Yea, if you can give her some foods that aren't dry, like thawed & peeled frozen peas or thawed, frozen bloodworms, that will be good for her diet too.
 

jen21

I've had a terrible morning, she was absolutely fine last night. When I checked her before leaving for work this morning she's hardly moving and laying in the plants, I tried to move her and she moved for about a minute and is back in the plants now. I think she's dying and I'm really not sure there's anything I can do. It seems silly getting upset but I've got attached to her, I've tried everything I can so am dreading popping home at lunchtime.
 

Lucy

I'm sorry she's not doing well. It's not silly to be upset, we love our fish.
I don't really know what to suggust. I know you moved her to another tank, is this one cycled? Are you changing the water?
 

jen21

I've been checking the water daily, I've just done a water change just in case. I popped back at lunchtime and she's no better but she has weird poo which may be a sign of something. I'm not sure if it's too late.
 

Evelyn1919

weird poo? maybe internal parasites? what color? stringy?
 

jen21

It was stringy, I went back into the aquatic store as I'm so worried and they said the new tank may not have cycled enough so move her back over. This isn't working as she's not moving, she's lying on her back now. This is so upsetting
 

COBettaCouple

Yea, I get upset when any of ours are sick. I'm pretty sure she has parasites and needs a med like Parasite Clear or Clout. I'd do a 50% water change and start those, hopefully they'll work well for her.
 

Evelyn1919

yeah...I agree with Cobettacouple. do a big water change and add the parasite clear stuff asap.

good luck.
 

jen21

The shops are shut now, I'm crying as I feel so helpless. She's laying on the bottom not moving now, not even her mouth or gills are moving and I think she's gone then she'll move a bit. This is horrible.
 

jen21

She's gone, thanks everyone for your help I'm just so sorry that there was nothing I could help her with.

Please can you give me advice as to whether I need to treat my other fish with anything as she was in contact with them, and also whether to empty and clean the new tank?
 

Lucy

I'm so sorry you lost her.
 

COBettaCouple

We're so sorry that you lost her. :'(

For now, I'd probably hold off on meds and just do extra water changes maybe and get some anti-parasites meds, just in case. If you see ANY signs of something off with them, start treating them for parasites.
 

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