Where Are My C. Aeneus People???

Hello all! I am a mild to moderate level experience nailbiting::nailbiting fish keeper with a well established faux planted aquarium that currently houses a beautiful school of mixed bronze and albino c. Aeneus along with a pair of angels and a shoal of bleeding hearts and diamond tetras. I want to add to my c. Aeneus school some of the other color varieties such as the black and orange laser and was wondering if anyone had experience with this.

Don't get me wrong I KNOW I can add any variety of Cory I'd like and they'd peacefully co exist, but my question is: Do these varying color morphs/ varieties of c.aeneus really school and behave as one cohesive species?

For complete clarification I'm considering adding to MY CURRENTLY EXISTING school of 2 bronze and 4 albino: 2 longfin green, 2 orange laser, and two black.

Side note: some say the orange laser isn't isn't really c. Aeneus, so if anyone has experience trying to mix on his particular type please let me know!!!!

TIA!

 

Hi, although the lasers & black corys are in the aenus family they are a separate species not just a colour variety so they should not be kept together as they can interbreed which imo is not good for the species.
Albino, bronze & those sold as green aenus are all colour variations of the same species so it’s fine to keep them together

 

Hi, although the lasers & black corys are in the aenus family they are a separate species not just a colour variety so they should not be kept together as they can interbreed which imo is not good for the species.
Albino, bronze & those sold as green aenus are all colour variations of the same species so it’s fine to keep them together

Thank you! This is the exact dialogue I was hoping to have.

So they are the same species or are they a subspecies generated by a different environment? And if so what is the harm in allowing them to interbreed if only going as far as my aquarium. Please don't take that as rudeness. I'm honestly novice and very curious. And while they're able to interbreed, would they behave as a single species or would I see a disturbance in their cohesiveness?

 

The black corys are a man made species developed in Germany from C.schultzei, others in the aenus family are widespread throughout S.america & are separate species.

The trouble with allowing them to interbreed is that corys can live 20+ years & very few people will keep them for the whole of their lives so unfortunately they do get into the trade which muddies the genetic waters so to speak. There are over 400 species of corys which makes ID’ing them already difficult enough DoubleDutch.

This quote says it better than I could about keeping mixed cory groups
“Frequently I hear of hobbyists who have been told that any cory is fine with any other cory, and that they have free reign to toss Pandas with Bronze, loretoensis with similis, and any other of the million combinations you could dream up. I'd personally go on the record and say that this isn't so. All shoals have a homogeneity about them, for good reason. It's safe to blend in with others and not stand out. If I'm swimming in a shoal of herring wearing a high-vis jacket and flashing deely boppers, I should not at all express surprise when a Barracuda slams headlong into the throng and singles me out. I'd be a lot less stressed if I happened to not stand out. I'm happy to extend that same sentiment to Corydoras cats, and wouldn't be surprised if experiments eventually show it to be the case.”
Full article here Are your shoals big enough?

 

The black corys are a man made species developed in Germany from C.schultzei, other aenus species are widespread throughout S.america & are separate species.

The trouble with allowing them to interbreed is that corys can live 20+ years & very few people will keep them for the whole of their lives so unfortunately they do get into the trade which muddies the genetic waters so to speak. There are over 400 species of corys which makes ID’ing them already difficult enough DoubleDutch.

This quote says it better than I could about keeping mixed cory groups
“Frequently I hear of hobbyists who have been told that any cory is fine with any other cory, and that they have free reign to toss Pandas with Bronze, loretoensis with similis, and any other of the million combinations you could dream up. I'd personally go on the record and say that this isn't so. All shoals have a homogeneity about them, for good reason. It's safe to blend in with others and not stand out. If I'm swimming in a shoal of herring wearing a high-vis jacket and flashing deely boppers, I should not at all express surprise when a Barracuda slams headlong into the throng and singles me out. I'd be a lot less stressed if I happened to not stand out. I'm happy to extend that same sentiment to Corydoras cats, and wouldn't be surprised if experiments eventually show it to be the case.”

I agree with all of this. It just confused me when both are listed as aeneus. So th black are actually schultzeI listed as aeneus?

Trust me. I have no intention of doing anything oddball or mixing species, which is exactly why I'm on this forum asking a question clearly so few ask.

It's just confusing when 5 different colors are listed as aeneus to see it as difference species. I'm assuming fish go by the same binomial nomenclature as all other animals. Genus then species. Why would they list a selectively bred schultzI as aeneus? That's blatantly misleading.

 

The black corys are a man made species developed in Germany from C.schultzei, others in the aenus family are widespread throughout S.america & are separate species.

The trouble with allowing them to interbreed is that corys can live 20+ years & very few people will keep them for the whole of their lives so unfortunately they do get into the trade which muddies the genetic waters so to speak. There are over 400 species of corys which makes ID’ing them already difficult enough DoubleDutch.

This quote says it better than I could about keeping mixed cory groups
“Frequently I hear of hobbyists who have been told that any cory is fine with any other cory, and that they have free reign to toss Pandas with Bronze, loretoensis with similis, and any other of the million combinations you could dream up. I'd personally go on the record and say that this isn't so. All shoals have a homogeneity about them, for good reason. It's safe to blend in with others and not stand out. If I'm swimming in a shoal of herring wearing a high-vis jacket and flashing deely boppers, I should not at all express surprise when a Barracuda slams headlong into the throng and singles me out. I'd be a lot less stressed if I happened to not stand out. I'm happy to extend that same sentiment to Corydoras cats, and wouldn't be surprised if experiments eventually show it to be the case.”
Full article here

Agree for the fullest.

I even keep green and bronze apart to prevent those to breed, though at this moment it is official not crossbreeding.

The same happened with C.venezuelanus before it got its own speciesname.

Longfin = man-made as well btw !

 

Unfortunately the majority of Lfs just label corys with whatever name their supplier says it is eg Venezuelan black cory when referring to the black, they’ve never been anywhere near Venezuela lol

 

But are they not just color variants of the same species?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying mistakes don't happen. Exampleemerald sold as bronze and visa versa. But assuming you have a black aeneus and a bronze aeneus are they not the same species?

DoubleDutch please help me to understand. I reached out for honest clarification on the matter and I still don't see. Are they or aren't they the same species?

 

Hi, at present C.schultzeI sp.black & C.aenus are separate species whether in future they’ll be reclassified your guess is as good as mine, the experts are still arguing over C.splendens or Brochis splendens!

 

so the black aeneus are not aeneus? They are schultzeI listed as aeneus? And the green long fin aeneus shouldn't be housed with my bronze and albino aeneus bc they are man made? Should I separate the albino from the bronze as well?

To be clear I ran upon some fish... for the record not at my lfs... online... listed as black aeneus.

 

HI you are fine keeping green, bronze & albino together as they are colour morphs of the same species.
The black corys are in the same grouping as aenus but still a separate species.

 

I understand you're puzzled. I think the science is causing that and that cause of the a lot of species in the Aeneus-group quite recently got their own speciesname.

Besided of that there are a lot of natural varieties of C.aeneus and a also a lot of them are result of crossbreeding before one of the parents got their own speciesname (C.venezuelanus mixed into green aeneus)

C.schultzeI even is "in between". I bought my schultzeI as C.aeneus as well, but they are quite different (see pic)

There is no black aeneus, but as Coradee mentioned only a man made black variaty of C.schultzei, sold mislabeled as black aeneus or black venezuela

So they are closely related but not the same species. Lasers are natural species that are in the Aeneusgroup but got their own CW numbers (not an official name) CW010, CW009.

So a lot of crossbreeding has already taken place (before the specific names were given) but the general agreement is to prevent that based on the current thoughts / insights.

Mmmmm hoping this Dutch-English explanation makes a little bit of sense.

 

Thanks Coradee.

 

You’re welcome angeltank & do forgive me, I forgot to say Welcome to Fishlore

DoubleDutch corys still puzzle me too sometimes & it’s not just the science lol

 

Oops forgot the pics.

1 C.schultzei
2 C.aeneus bronze
3 C.aeneus (formerly C.macrosteus)
4 C.venezuelanus

 

I understand you're puzzled. I think the science is causing that and that cause of the a lot of species in the Aeneus-group quite recently got their own speciesname.

Besided of that there are a lot of natural varieties of C.aeneus and a also a lot of them are result of crossbreeding before one of the parents got their own speciesname (C.venezuelanus mixed into green aeneus)

C.schultzeI even is "in between". I bought my schultzeI as C.aeneus as well, but they are quite different (see pic)

There is no black aeneus, but as Coradee mentioned only a man made black variaty of C.schultzei, sold mislabeled as black aeneus or black venezuela

So they are closely related but not the same species. Lasers are natural species that are in the Aeneusgroup but got their own CW numbers (not an official name) CW010, CW009.

So a lot of crossbreeding has already taken place (before the specific names were given) but the general agreement is to prevent that based on the current thoughts / insights.

Mmmmm hoping this Dutch-English explanation makes a little bit of sense.

This Dutch English is the exact sort of response I was hoping for. I don't do well with simple answers and never have. I like the how's whys and ins and outs! I honestly appreciate the breakdown bc it helps me to understand which is exactly what I wanted. Thank you so much!

Oops forgot the pics.

1 C.schultzei
2 C.aeneus bronze
3 C.aeneus (formerly C.macrosteus)
4 C.venezuelanus

Your first pic looks a lot like the orange laser cory.

 

Your first pic looks a lot like the orange laser cory.

yeah but it's only on the shoulder

 

yeah but it's only on the shoulder

Oh the subtleties! Well they're beautiful no matter what.

DoubleDutch what's that in your profile pic?

 

DoubleDutch what's that in your profile pic?

That was my xanthic C.paleatus "Yellow"
It died some time ago before I was able to breed it. It is on Planet Catfish as well hahaha.

 

That was my xanthic C.paleatus "Yellow"
It died some time ago before I was able to breed it. It is on Planet Catfish as well hahaha.

That's a shame. It's beautiful.

 

Hello all! I am a mild to moderate level experience nailbiting::nailbiting fish keeper with a well established faux planted aquarium that currently houses a beautiful school of mixed bronze and albino c. Aeneus along with a pair of angels and a shoal of bleeding hearts and diamond tetras. I want to add to my c. Aeneus school some of the other color varieties such as the black and orange laser and was wondering if anyone had experience with this.

Don't get me wrong I KNOW I can add any variety of Cory I'd like and they'd peacefully co exist, but my question is: Do these varying color morphs/ varieties of c.aeneus really school and behave as one cohesive species?

For complete clarification I'm considering adding to MY CURRENTLY EXISTING school of 2 bronze and 4 albino: 2 longfin green, 2 orange laser, and two black.

Side note: some say the orange laser isn't isn't really c. Aeneus, so if anyone has experience trying to mix on his particular type please let me know!!!!

TIA!

I wouldn't let things like the possibility of crossbreeding stop you from stocking the species you want to stock. Yes, they'll definitely all scuttle around the sand in search of food together as usual, and honestly if they did breed and other fish didnt end up eating all the eggs... who cares, hopefully it turns out to be a nice looking fish. Many varieties of fish in the trade aren't exactly natural anymore. I don't feel like you owe any explanation anymore than anyone who thinks flowerhorns, electric blue acaras, fancy goldfish, glowfish, pretty much any fish in any color, and any body shape, with any fin type that's been line bred, cross bred or whatever are fine in the trade. I think they'll do fine together.

 

I wouldn't let things like the possibility of crossbreeding stop you from stocking the species you want to stock. Yes, they'll definitely all scuttle around the sand in search of food together as usual, and honestly if they did breed and other fish didnt end up eating all the eggs... who cares, hopefully it turns out to be a nice looking fish. Many varieties of fish in the trade aren't exactly natural anymore. I don't feel like you owe any explanation anymore than anyone who thinks flowerhorns, electric blue acaras, fancy goldfish, glowfish, pretty much any fish in any color, and any body shape, with any fin type that's been line bred, cross bred or whatever are fine in the trade. I think they'll do fine together.

That isn't an answer to the actual question in my opinion. The thing is several mentioned aren't the same species and Cories simply do best in a school/shoal of their own species.

A coryschool/shoal is something quite different than a Corycollection. The general agreement in "Coryland" is that we (try to) prevent crossbreeding but there will be a lot of people that don't mind or care at all. There will always be different opinions and thoughts and everbody is free to do whatever he or she likes.

Only thing is that one could asks himself if it is a right thing to say we already messed up with nature this far, that every next mess up is okay. I don't think so but that's also to everyone's own judgement.

 

That isn't an answer to the actual question in my opinion. The thing is several mentioned aren't the same species and Cories simply do best in a school/shoal of their own species.

A coryschool/shoal is something quite different than a Corycollection. The general agreement in "Coryland" is that we (try to) prevent crossbreeding but there will be a lot of people that don't mind or care at all. There will always be different opinions and thoughts and everbody is free to do whatever he or she likes.

Only thing is that one could asks himself if it is a right thing to say we already messed up with nature this far, that every next mess up is okay. I don't think so but that's also to everyone's own judgement.

Right, I understand that, and similarly to rainbows, some consider it controversial to have mixed schools of closely related species but they can often work very well as a group and if that's what you want and you're not looking to introduce these fish into the wild or sell them through the hobby as something that's pure when you know it's possibly not.. if they do even bother to cross at all or survive in a community tank, then I don't really see a problem with it. And I would expect that they would probably group together though, my Pandas and Juliis do... Can't see why two closer related species wouldn't.

 

Right, I understand that, and similarly to rainbows, some consider it controversial to have mixed schools of closely related species but they can often work very well as a group and if that's what you want and you're not looking to introduce these fish into the wild or sell them through the hobby as something that's pure when you know it's possibly not.. if they do even bother to cross at all or survive in a community tank, then I don't really see a problem with it. And I would expect that they would probably group together though, my Pandas and Juliis do... Can't see why two closer related species wouldn't.

They'll definitely school together.
It's about what one is trying to achieve I think.

Most natural : Shoal of the same species
What some people like : A collection of several species.

As said earlier I even try to keep the different types of C.aeneus seperated.
But that's me.

 

I agree with all points made by both of you, hanra85 & DoubleDutch. I have to admit I considered adding a small shoal of say 5 or 6 orange lasers to school with my aeneus. My thought was that if there are enough of each type then naturally they'd choose to do their business with their own kind anyway. And besides, even if they did, the offspring (assuming they even survived) would never make it further than my own home. However , I don't think I'll do that bc I don't think my aquarium can handle the addition of that many more fish so I'm just going to hold off. My aeneus are all over 5 years, so I'm going to wait them out and just replace them with a different type when they're gone.

 

For the record I'm in betweenon my preference the "same species" vs "collection of cories". I like the more natural behaviors of the large numbers of the same species existing together, but I also enjoy the variety of a collection. This is exactly why I was hoping to have a shoal of aeneus of varying colors in the first place.

 

 

Oh and one more thing. I'm debating between orange laser, similis, and sterbaI when I do replace. Advice, opinions and experience are all welcome.

 

For the record I'm in betweenon my preference the "same species" vs "collection of cories". I like the more natural behaviors of the large numbers of the same species existing together, but I also enjoy the variety of a collection. This is exactly why I was hoping to have a shoal of aeneus of varying colors in the first place.

Why do you think I've 8 tanks running ? Hahahaha.

You'll definitely love the social behaviour of a big shoal of one species.

 

Why do you think I've 8 tanks running ? Hahahaha.

You'll definitely love the social behaviour of a big shoal of one species.

Bc I'm an involuntary member of "tiny house nation". In other words, not enough space. And yeah I've had as many as 8 aeneus at once and they were a blast to watch socialize and frolic.