What's wrong with this angel?

He's got a white film over his body and what appears to be fin rot....

There is something going on with my angels and it's freaking me out.

I'll give more details later but in the meantime can anybody diagnosed this visually?

Here is what his body is supposed to look like. This was when I first brought him home

 

Looks like Fin and Tail Rot to me. I suggest daily water changes immediately. Hopefully others with more knowledgeable with diseases can give you a definite answer on what's wrong. But water changes is a good start.

 

Looks like Fin and Tail Rot to me. I suggest daily water changes immediately. Hopefully others with more knowledgeable with diseases can give you a definite answer on what's wrong. But water changes is a good start.

The tank gets water changes twice a week routinely. I'm more curious about the film on the body....any ideas on that?

I've been having this film issue on the bodies of my juvenile angels for a long time. I've never seen it result in fin rot and the other angels have recovered. This was a new angel that appears to have picked up with my other angels had.... I want to know what's going on. It seems that once an angel goes through this film issue they become immune and they never get it again but new Angels introduced develop it....

The tanks with my juvenile Angels get water changes 2 to 3 times per week. I keep them immaculate! And I was doing daily water changes for weeks when I had multiple Angels showing the signs. I started wondering if it was too much prime or something.

Also.... this film issue all began when I got my blue angel babies from Angel Mania on may 4th. It could be a coincidence, but I've never had anything like this happen before to any of my Angelfish or any of my fish at all! And the issue started with the blue guys!

I've been doing this for 4 years and I am just baffled.

 

I am not sure what it is..my first time seeing anything like this. And I don't want to give out any wrong information, so I will gracefully bow out and let other members help on this one. I've only had the pleasure of dealing with Ich, and one case of Fin and Tail Rot.

 

DoubleDutch

 

I am not sure what it is..my first time seeing anything like this. And I don't want to give out any wrong information, so I will gracefully bow out and let other members help on this one. I've only had the pleasure of dealing with Ich, and one case of Fin and Tail Rot.

I really appreciate your taking the time to respond! I've never seen anything like this before either and no matter how much research I do online I can't figure out what it is!!!! There are no behavior changes when they look this way. They eat normal, swim normal and socialize normal.... it's just something that they seem to have to fight off and then they become immune. Which is how the infamous angelfish virus or "angelfish aids" is described to be. However that angelfish virus has many other symptoms that my angels have not shown.

All I can say is that these angels are almost all surviving whatever is going on, and they only go through it once...it seems ... it really appears they are developing an immunity to something.

 

Wow...that is something I've never heard of before. I am about to do some research. I'm very very curious to what's going on, and this will be a very good learning experience for me.

 

Personally I think it is a protozoan of some sort. Parasites leaving the fish leave holes which makes them vunerable for fungal and bacterial (finrot).

Doubting if this one could be saved. Sorry !

 

Personally I think it is a protozoan of some sort. Parasites leaving the fish leave holes which makes them vunerable for fungal and bacterial (finrot).

Doubting if this one could be saved. Sorry !

Here is a before and after of an angel that recovered(after is on the left of course)

 

I don't want to jump to the worst possible scenario, but the symptoms you described reminded me of a disease that I had read on the Angels Plus website. The disease is called 'Angelfish Virus'. Here's the exact quote:



"Angelfish Virus: A Potentially deadly disease. It is highly infectious. All exposed angelfish that are not immune will come down with symptoms within 2-3 days of exposure, usually quicker. If you suspect that a quarantined fish has this, you should destroy the fish. The risk is too great to keep such a fish around. There is no medication for this virus. The fish's immune system must be relied upon for the cure. Symptoms: Clamped fins, excess slime, listless with nose pointed up slightly, usually towards the back of the aquarium. It has an approximately 3 week infectious period. This disease is so undesirable, because if an angelfish survives the virus, it will likely become a carrier for up to six months. This can put an angelfish breeding operation out of business very quickly. These symptoms can also be caused by other infectious diseases which may be secondary or tertiary infections, that are unrelated to the virus. The object is to keep the angelfish comfortable while giving the immune system time to kick in. Remove any bright lights from the aquarium and treat with an antibiotic to prevent secondary infections."

After reading your first post, I did some more research into the virus. Here's some good sources that I found:

"The only angelfish specific virus is called the Angelfish Virus. It was prevalent among breeders during the 1980s and has been called the angelfish plague and angelfish AIDS. It was caused by fish with the disease introduced from Southeast Asia and the first large outbreak has infamously become known as the angelfish plague of 1986. Symptoms of angelfish virus include lethargy, the fish tends to point his nose up and not move, swimming unnaturally with fins kept close to the body (clamped fins), and excessive slime that may drip off the body of the fish.

In the original angelfish plague, aquarists reported fins eroding down to the body in a matter of hours and bleeding gills. Cases of angelfish virus today do not usually have such severe symptoms. Since that first outbreak, the virus seems to have weakened, or the angelfish population is more resistant to the more severe forms of the disease, or a new but similar virus has emerged. Whatever the case, it’s still a deadly disease. It’s believed that the virus weakens the fish and allows secondary infections to quickly set in. Most angelfish do not survive and die within a couple of days. It’s highly contagious and will spread to all other angels in the tank. Water from one tank infected with this disease has the potential to infect another tank.

As with any fish viral disease, there is not a treatment for angelfish virus other than supportive care by keeping the tank clean and warm. Some recommend antibiotics to control secondary infections. However, many aquarists will cull angelfish showing symptoms of this freshwater angelfish disease so as not to spread the virus. If any angelfish survive the disease, they will be carriers and still able to pass the virus to other angelfish for up to six months."

And finally, here's a post from Fishlore member fish_newbie, who quoted well-known discus and angelfish keeper JI'm E. Quarles:

"The first thing I noticed was a general darkening of the fish, they started showing signs of stress. They would hide if possible, or go to the bottom of the tank and remain there. Some would lay on their sides somewhat.

Then in a few hours I noticed a problem with the slI'm coat developing, it looked like pealing snot on some areas of the skin. At that time I sicking odor of decay was noticed coming from the tank. Massive water changes helped with the stress somewhat but did not reduce the progress of the disease much. If it is really discus plague you will notice that the area under the pectoral fins will remain pretty much clear of the peeling of the slime coat.

With time the fish will lose all interest in feeding. Then other effects of disease start to appear. fin rot is noticed as the fin edges turn whitish and become ragged. As this progress you will lose a lot of the fin to rot.

This is I believe a secondary infection of a different disease, so now you you have at least two diseases working at the same time, both are external parasites or bacteria thank goodness and will respond to treatment.

If treatment is not started quickly another disease factor may come into complicate the problem even more. Columnaris is likely to come into the picture at this point. This factors are why the plague is a wipe out disease."

Hope this helps

 

I don't want to jump to the worst possible scenario, but the symptoms you described reminded me of a disease that I had read on the Angels Plus website. The disease is called 'Angelfish Virus'. Here's the exact quote:



"Angelfish Virus: A Potentially deadly disease. It is highly infectious. All exposed angelfish that are not immune will come down with symptoms within 2-3 days of exposure, usually quicker. If you suspect that a quarantined fish has this, you should destroy the fish. The risk is too great to keep such a fish around. There is no medication for this virus. The fish's immune system must be relied upon for the cure. Symptoms: Clamped fins, excess slime, listless with nose pointed up slightly, usually towards the back of the aquarium. It has an approximately 3 week infectious period. This disease is so undesirable, because if an angelfish survives the virus, it will likely become a carrier for up to six months. This can put an angelfish breeding operation out of business very quickly. These symptoms can also be caused by other infectious diseases which may be secondary or tertiary infections, that are unrelated to the virus. The object is to keep the angelfish comfortable while giving the immune system time to kick in. Remove any bright lights from the aquarium and treat with an antibiotic to prevent secondary infections."

After reading your first post, I did some more research into the virus. Here's some good sources that I found:

"The only angelfish specific virus is called the Angelfish Virus. It was prevalent among breeders during the 1980s and has been called the angelfish plague and angelfish AIDS. It was caused by fish with the disease introduced from Southeast Asia and the first large outbreak has infamously become known as the angelfish plague of 1986. Symptoms of angelfish virus include lethargy, the fish tends to point his nose up and not move, swimming unnaturally with fins kept close to the body (clamped fins), and excessive slime that may drip off the body of the fish.

In the original angelfish plague, aquarists reported fins eroding down to the body in a matter of hours and bleeding gills. Cases of angelfish virus today do not usually have such severe symptoms. Since that first outbreak, the virus seems to have weakened, or the angelfish population is more resistant to the more severe forms of the disease, or a new but similar virus has emerged. Whatever the case, it’s still a deadly disease. It’s believed that the virus weakens the fish and allows secondary infections to quickly set in. Most angelfish do not survive and die within a couple of days. It’s highly contagious and will spread to all other angels in the tank. Water from one tank infected with this disease has the potential to infect another tank.

As with any fish viral disease, there is not a treatment for angelfish virus other than supportive care by keeping the tank clean and warm. Some recommend antibiotics to control secondary infections. However, many aquarists will cull angelfish showing symptoms of this freshwater angelfish disease so as not to spread the virus. If any angelfish survive the disease, they will be carriers and still able to pass the virus to other angelfish for up to six months."

And finally, here's a post from Fishlore member fish_newbie, who quoted well-known discus and angelfish keeper JI'm E. Quarles:

"The first thing I noticed was a general darkening of the fish, they started showing signs of stress. They would hide if possible, or go to the bottom of the tank and remain there. Some would lay on their sides somewhat.

Then in a few hours I noticed a problem with the slI'm coat developing, it looked like pealing snot on some areas of the skin. At that time I sicking odor of decay was noticed coming from the tank. Massive water changes helped with the stress somewhat but did not reduce the progress of the disease much. If it is really discus plague you will notice that the area under the pectoral fins will remain pretty much clear of the peeling of the slime coat.

With time the fish will lose all interest in feeding. Then other effects of disease start to appear. fin rot is noticed as the fin edges turn whitish and become ragged. As this progress you will lose a lot of the fin to rot.

This is I believe a secondary infection of a different disease, so now you you have at least two diseases working at the same time, both are external parasites or bacteria thank goodness and will respond to treatment.

If treatment is not started quickly another disease factor may come into complicate the problem even more. Columnaris is likely to come into the picture at this point. This factors are why the plague is a wipe out disease."

Hope this helps

Yes...I already mentioned that in my previous post :-(

sorry Charles556 I responded prematurely because I was in a rush. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do all that research!! I have spent hours researching this and found all the same information you did. The angelfish virus or "angelfish aids" as I saw it referred to many times, really fits the description...except for the fact that all but one of mine have recovered 100% and none have ever shown any behavioral signs of that virus. They pretty much just looked ugly as heck for a while and then they eventually became good as new. But just like the angelfish virus says, they now appear to be "carriers" yet "immune" so any new angels are affected but the old ones are not. Interestingly it has not affected any adult angels in my fishy world. Only the juveniles. One of the infected juveniles had spent some time with the adults at one point. (after having recovered....so assumingly it would have still been a carrier)

Anyway, thanks again for your time!!

 

bizaliz3..I'm stumped on this one. A d the research that I found d was similar to what Charles came up with. The one thing that is different is the fact that your Angel is behaving normal. I'm hoping that his immune system is strong enough to cure itself.

 

Here is a before and after of an angel that recovered(after is on the left of course)

I don't mean they can't recover of a protozoan (in the pic is Tricodina I think) but this one has a bad bacterial infection as well and has to be treated with two kind of meds. AntI parasite and antibiotic.

 

It is known almost every fishspecies has "its own" iridovirus. Most commonly known is Dwarf Gourami Disease. Could be Angels have it too, but I expect the virus not to be lethal itself but "opening" the immunesystem and "letting" other diseases "do the job".

 

bizaliz3..I'm stumped on this one. A d the research that I found d was similar to what Charles came up with. The one thing that is different is the fact that your Angel is behaving normal. I'm hoping that his immune system is strong enough to cure itself.

It is so nice of you and Charles556 to spend that time doing that research. I really appreciate it. I am just stumped right now. If the angels were swimming funny, or not eating, or whatever....this would all make more sense. But they never showed any problems behavior wise.

I have had some juvies that never got it at all! I've had Some that got it worse than others. It is just so odd. And just when I thought I was "out of the woods" I brought this new guy home and he developed what I THOUGHT I had gotten rid of!! I thought I was past this. But whatever it is...it is being "carried" by healthy angels now...it seems....

 

I don't mean they can't recover of a protozoan (in the pic is Tricodina I think) but this one has a bad bacterial infection as well and has to be treated with two kind of meds. AntI parasite and antibiotic.

So you are saying the fish that is the subject of this thread is the one that has developed a bad infection (whereas the one that has recovered did not) Correct? I just want to make sure I am on the same page.

With that being said...I haven't had experience with fit rot. Is this something that can't go away on it's own with daily water changes? Is it something that MUST be treated with meds? Right now I have general cure and metro on hand.....I always like to avoid meds and stick with daily water changes if I can.....which has always worked for me in other situations (like damaged or lost fins). But again, I haven't dealt with fin rot.

 

Not a problem..matter of fact of love doing research, plus I learned something new. Let's hope he can get past this, and get healthy.

 

When my wife's Betta had F&TR...many members here suggested daily water changes and nothing else and it worked. So that is what I suggest to you.

 

So you are saying the fish that is the subject of this thread is the one that has developed a bad infection (whereas the one that has recovered did not) Correct? I just want to make sure I am on the same page.

With that being said...I haven't had experience with fit rot. Is this something that can't go away on it's own with daily water changes? Is it something that MUST be treated with meds? Right now I have general cure and metro on hand.....I always like to avoid meds and stick with daily water changes if I can.....which has always worked for me in other situations (like damaged or lost fins). But again, I haven't dealt with fin rot.

No the one in subject has multiple and different infections and the latter one only has one kind of infection that is less far gone and easier to treat. Finrot in general is very progressive and so treatment with an antibiotic better should be started immediately.
As said it is pretty far gone allready. It's quite difficult to compare different "cases" cause all are (slightly) different and in a less or further stage.

 

No the one in subject has multiple and different infections and the latter one only has one kind of infection that is less far gone and easier to treat. Finrot in general is very progressive and so treatment with an antibiotic better should be started immediately.
As said it is pretty far gone allready. It's quite difficult to compare different "cases" cause all are (slightly) different and in a less or further stage.

Would general cure or metro work in this situation?

So basically, this fish didn't have as good of an immune system as the others? Since all the others managed to fight it off without developing secondary infections? (except for one)