What's with all the long finned fish?

Mii

Member
Why is it that everything seems to have a "long finned" breed? Like for some fish i get it, it looks nice, and if you make sure not to breed them so the fins are TOO long, it can look quite nice, like a standard long finned betta i feel can still have a good quality of life, and is very pretty for the fish keeper to look at (although i think I'll probably mostly get short finned bettas from now on because they can swim better). But then there's fish where i feel it really effects their quality of life, such as tiger barbs or black skirt tetras, which are known to be fin-nippers, so if you give them long fins, they'll constantly be getting torn up. Or, while to a certain extent, long finned bettas are ok, eventually you get things like the "feather tail" bettas, which have swimming problems and bad long term health. And then there's fish that just look better with their normal finnage, long finned cory cats? Seriously? Like i mean as long as you're not hurting the fish you can do what you want with it, but i feel like fish's fins are the lengths they are in the wild for a reason, after all, their main purpose is for swimming, it's like if someone forced you to wear fancy yet inconvenient clothing your whole life, it'd get in the way and be annoying. Not trying to shame anyone who keeps long finned fish, infact i have had long finned bettas in the past, just overall I'm not a huge fan of all the selective breeding we do that really messes up the fish. Not to mention inbreeding.
 

Pfrozen

Member
You make valid point of course, this can extend into all areas of the pet industry though including dogs, cats, rabbits... etc... in the end it boils down to deeply complicated questions about ethics and the value of life and our place within the world we live in lol. All of that is too complicated to dwell on imo. I think the best we can do as fishkeepers is do our best to stock long-finned fish in optimal environments so they don't get injured and perhaps refrain from participating in the selective breeding process if we don't like the ethical implications. For me, I just don't like long finned fish haha. I MUCH prefer the black phantom tetras over the black skirts. I think they look silly
 
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Mii

Member
Pfrozen said:
You make valid point of course, this can extend into all areas of the pet industry though including dogs, cats, rabbits... etc... in the end it boils down to deeply complicated questions about ethics and the value of life and our place within the world we live in lol. All of that is too complicated to dwell on imo. I think the best we can do as fishkeepers is do our best to stock long-finned fish in optimal environments so they don't get injured and perhaps refrain from participating in the selective breeding process if we don't like the ethical implications. For me, I just don't like long finned fish haha. I MUCH prefer the black phantom tetras over the black skirts. I think they look silly
I'm ok with regular black skirt tetras, but the long finned ones I'm not a fan of. also long finned oscars look really silly.
 

Gudgie

Member
Mii said:
I'm ok with regular black skirt tetras, but the long finned ones I'm not a fan of. also long finned oscars look really silly.
...I had not realized long finned oscars were a thing until this made me google it. I agree, they look ridiculous to me.

I’m also personally not a fan of many long-finned fishes that have been created through selective breeding. I’m not against selective breeding assuming inbreeding complications are avoided, I just tend not to like how the long fins look.
 

NevermindIgnoreMe

Member
Mii said:
Why is it that everything seems to have a "long finned" breed? Like for some fish i get it, it looks nice, and if you make sure not to breed them so the fins are TOO long, it can look quite nice, like a standard long finned betta i feel can still have a good quality of life, and is very pretty for the fish keeper to look at (although i think I'll probably mostly get short finned bettas from now on because they can swim better). But then there's fish where i feel it really effects their quality of life, such as tiger barbs or black skirt tetras, which are known to be fin-nippers, so if you give them long fins, they'll constantly be getting torn up. Or, while to a certain extent, long finned bettas are ok, eventually you get things like the "feather tail" bettas, which have swimming problems and bad long term health. And then there's fish that just look better with their normal finnage, long finned cory cats? Seriously? Like i mean as long as you're not hurting the fish you can do what you want with it, but i feel like fish's fins are the lengths they are in the wild for a reason, after all, their main purpose is for swimming, it's like if someone forced you to wear fancy yet inconvenient clothing your whole life, it'd get in the way and be annoying. Not trying to shame anyone who keeps long finned fish, infact i have had long finned bettas in the past, just overall I'm not a huge fan of all the selective breeding we do that really messes up the fish. Not to mention inbreeding.
As someone who keeps fancy goldfish, I think about this a fair amount. There have been multitudes of people who question the ethics of breeding fish (and animals in general) to look certain ways that sometimes border on lowering the quality of life
for the aforementioned pets.

There are some that look cool/cute/ect. while others are unnatural, and even ugly or painful looking. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though... Why do we stupid humans have to go and mess everything up?

I'm a goldfish person, and there are several "long finned" and specialty finned goldfish. Butterfly (My absolute favorites.), tosakin, comets, and vieltail goldfish are gorgeous imo. Thankfully people generally care for them well and try to cater to their fragility, and almost all of the (vieltail) ones I've seen have been beautiful and healthy, with nice setups.
 

Nataku

Member
I've kept long finned tiger barbs with normal tiger barbs - there's been no fin nipping. Just because they have long fins doesn't suddenly make them a target to other tiger barbs. The key with tiger barbs is keeping a sufficiently sized school, regardless of what color morphs or fin types you keep together. Now if I only kept four tiger barbs and only one had long fins? Yeah I'd expect that one to get picked on. But then whoever was the lowest tiger barb on the totem pole I'd expect to get picked on if there were only four, its just too small of a group.
 

Megaanemp

Member
I was looking for bronze Corys recently and could only find long fin ones! I ended up getting them and of course now that they’re mine they’ve really grown on me. But I agree it seems very unnecessary and I think they probably have a higher risk of injury due to the long fins.
 

Betta'sAnonymous

Member
Considering we live in a society where animal abuse such as cropping a dogs ears/tail are considered acceptable....why wouldn't people try breeding long finned everything on fish, too? Maybe not abuse, but considering with humans everything is all about appearances...which is also the #1 cause for debt-keeping up with the Jones's.
 
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Mii

Member
Betta'sAnonymous said:
Considering we live in a society where animal abuse such as cropping a dogs ears/tail are considered acceptable....why wouldn't people try breeding long finned everything on fish, too? Maybe not abuse, but considering with humans everything is all about appearances...which is also the #1 cause for debt-keeping up with the Jones's.
Cropping Dog's ears/tails REALLY pees me off (using "pee" as a substitute for a real cuss word, or at leas FishLore considers it a cuss word. Imo it doesn't really count but nonetheless i am willing to respect the site owner's decisions)
 

erinw347

Member
I honestly agree. When I’m looking to buy angelfish, I see veils mostly and I don’t understand the appeal... it take the angelic away from them. Angelfish are just kinda mean by nature, so every single veil angel Ive seen is torn up and just not nice to look at. The only longfins I really like are bettas and plecos.
 
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Mii

Member
erinw347 said:
I honestly agree. When I’m looking to buy angelfish, I see veils mostly and I don’t understand the appeal... it take the angelic away from them. Angelfish are just kinda mean by nature, so every single veil angel Ive seen is torn up and just not nice to look at. The only longfins I really like are bettas and plecos.
Wait they breed long fin angelfish? But they already have long, beautiful fins, and they just look SOOOOOOOOOO much better the way they are. So WHY breed them to be even longer they look silly.
 

RockinRy

Member
I have some long finned Danios in a tank and there hasn’t been any fin nipping or at least none with visible damage. I didn’t really think about the ethics of them when I purchased more just interested in the fins flowing while they zoom around. In terms of the Danios, the long fins doesn’t seem to have affected their quality of life thankfully but I’ll probably be paying closer attention to it now.
 

Leeman75

Member
Gudgie said:
...I had not realized long finned oscars were a thing until this made me google it. I agree, they look ridiculous to me.
I did the same...that's the oddest thing I've seen for a while.
 

Nickguy5467

Member
i was looking for albino cory for my tank , found none except "long finned" albino cory im not really into the look of
 
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Mii

Member
Nickguy5467 said:
i was looking for albino cory for my tank , found none except "long finned" albino cory im not really into the look of
Surely someone sells the normal variety of one of the most common fish? If you can't get them locally try online.
 

Nickguy5467

Member
Mii said:
Surely someone sells the normal variety of one of the most common fish? If you can't get them locally try online.
yeah sorry i looked at my lfs no cory so looked online found some but they were all long finned (from the place i usually get fish online anyway) ill just have to wait. but i had never seen a long finned albino cory before then
 
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Mii

Member
Nickguy5467 said:
yeah sorry i looked at my lfs no cory so looked online found some but they were all long finned (from the place i usually get fish online anyway)
Try another site than
 

qldmick

Member
The longfin varieties I dislike the most are probably the most expensive, long finned arowana, I just hate their look.
That being said I've breed albino and long fined danios and bristlenose.
 

Betta02

Member
I took a good look at my Dumbo Ear Betta yesterday. Got him as a juvenile a year ago. His fins are ridiculously long and fluffy. He's beautiful, but I see issues with them in the future. He already has a tough time swimming.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Humans seem to have the need to make the creatures of Mother Nature "better", but in fact never succeeded once.

I personally think longfinned fish are a shame. Fish that can hardly swim, feed, live a natural life aren't my cup of tea.
 

jake37

Member
You forgot the ultimate abuse; socks on pet feets and those little booties. Then there is genetic alterations. Generally speaking i prefer fishes with plain fins but having said that i will admit there are colour combinations for some fishes that i prefer to what is normally found in the wild. After all there are not a lot of platinum or black angelfishes in nature nor green cobra guppies.
--
On the one hand i think things have gone way too far in many areas (dogs being one of them); when we start drawing a line we risk becoming hypocritic.... then there is an argument to be made that we shouldn't be keeping nature fish in little glass boxes to begin with...

Betta'sAnonymous said:
Considering we live in a society where animal abuse such as cropping a dogs ears/tail are considered acceptable....why wouldn't people try breeding long finned everything on fish, too? Maybe not abuse, but considering with humans everything is all about appearances...which is also the #1 cause for debt-keeping up with the Jones's.
 

Betta'sAnonymous

Member
jake37 said:
You forgot the ultimate abuse; socks on pet feets and those little booties. Then there is genetic alterations. Generally speaking i prefer fishes with plain fins but having said that i will admit there are colour combinations for some fishes that i prefer to what is normally found in the wild. After all there are not a lot of platinum or black angelfishes in nature nor green cobra guppies.
--
On the one hand i think things have gone way too far in many areas (dogs being one of them); when we start drawing a line we risk becoming hypocritic.... then there is an argument to be made that we shouldn't be keeping nature fish in little glass boxes to begin with...
Well, that last part comes up in my head from time to time as well...my biggest problem in my head with fishkeeping though, unlike with cats and dogs, you don't really have "stray" fish. Every cat i have ever had has either come from an animal shelter pr was going to end up there. A little different with fish. Kind of bugs me in a way, but at the same time i know if they are in my tabks, they aren't sitting in a little bowl somewhere.
 

NevermindIgnoreMe

Member
jake37 said:
You forgot the ultimate abuse; socks on pet feets and those little booties. Then there is genetic alterations. Generally speaking i prefer fishes with plain fins but having said that i will admit there are colour combinations for some fishes that i prefer to what is normally found in the wild. After all there are not a lot of platinum or black angelfishes in nature nor green cobra guppies.
--
On the one hand i think things have gone way too far in many areas (dogs being one of them); when we start drawing a line we risk becoming hypocritic.... then there is an argument to be made that we shouldn't be keeping nature fish in little glass boxes to begin with...
And then there is the combo, we've altered the fish so dramatically that they can't survive in the wild any more and HAVE to live in the little glass boxes we've made. (Fancy goldfish.)

I have always loved wild creatures, and thought it be cool to have them as pets, but at the same time I could never bring myself to capture a free-born creature and doom it to a lesser life simply for my enjoyment. Though unfortunately many disagree. Especially when it comes to wild cats, like cheetas, servals, ect. And we've nearly made African grey parrots go extinct.
 
  • Thread Starter

Mii

Member
DoubleDutch said:
Humans seem to have the need to make the creatures of Mother Nature "better", but in fact never succeeded once.

I personally think longfinned fish are a shame. Fish that can hardly swim, feed, live a natural life aren't my cup of tea.
Well i wouldn't say humans NEVER succeed in making an animal better, after all without humans DOGS wouldn't exist.
...of course AFTER making dogs humans just selectively bred the heck(hopefully FishLore doesn't think heck is a curse word) out of them so some dogs have health problems, but if you get mixed breed dogs or dog breeds that aren't prone to health problems these problems can be avoided. Do i think dogs are better animals than wolves? No. Do i think dogs are better PETS than wolves? Yes, because originally, instead of breeding for deformed dogs that can't breathe, humans just bred the ones that made the best pets.
 

Betta02

Member
Has anyone looked at Arabian horses lately? The classic 'dish face' now looks like they got hit across the nose with a board. It's unfortunately the same in the horse world as the dog world. Sometimes I wonder if humans know when to leave well enough alone....
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Mii said:
Well i wouldn't say humans NEVER succeed in making an animal better, after all without humans DOGS wouldn't exist.
...of course AFTER making dogs humans just selectively bred the heck(hopefully FishLore doesn't think heck is a curse word) out of them so some dogs have health problems, but if you get mixed breed dogs or dog breeds that aren't prone to health problems these problems can be avoided. Do i think dogs are better animals than wolves? No. Do i think dogs are better PETS than wolves? Yes, because originally, instead of breeding for deformed dogs that can't breathe, humans just bred the ones that made the best pets.
Mother Nature didn't create pets, but only animals. Pets is a human thing.
 

fishnovice33

Member
I guess people just like them. I’m with you though. I don’t like long fine, long fins mean more apt to get hurt, get nipped etc.
 

mattgirl

Member
To each their own I supposed but I love my little long finned Black Skirt Tetras. To me the normal ones seem stubby. I've never seen any fin nipping nor them having any trouble swimming. Sadly I feel sure I will eventually start losing them because they are going on 5 years old now.
 

KartoKartofel

Member
I intentionally have a long finned betta so that it wouldn't be able to eat all the food from the tetras.
 
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Mii

Member
KartoKartofel said:
I intentionally have a long finned betta so that it wouldn't be able to eat all the food from the tetras.
That... Actually makes sense. Although I'd be worried about the tetras eating all the food so the betta doesn't get any.
 

KartoKartofel

Member
Mii said:
That... Actually makes sense. Although I'd be worried about the tetras eating all the food so the betta doesn't get any.
My betta is extremely controlling of food. I have to feed him on the opposite side of the aquarium so he doesn't eat all the food from the tetras. The long fins slow him down, but don't make him so slow to a point where he can't eat anything.
 

kanzekatores

Member
I agree with you I don’t understand why they breed the fish to have such impractical fins when the result isn’t even very pretty imo. I’ve never understood what the rage is about bettas or angelfish.
 

GlennO

Member
Not personally a fan of any long finned varieties really. I saw a BN the other day with all of its fins longer than it's body which looked odd to me, like some kind of weird moth. Better than intentionally breeding fish with bent spines though.
 

yeti79

Member
I think it is because they have more visual impact. Same thing with glofish. Most cannot pet their fish and we have them as pets to observe. A fish that stand out in color or appearance will have higher demand. In a school of fish sometimes there is a specific one that can be identified for those reasons. Plus some people want something unique and different such as balloon belly, celestial/bubble eyes. I prefer natural looking fish but do have longfin and glofish. Some fish can be difficult to find not in their long fin variety. For example I originally wanted leopard danios but ended up getting a mixture of danios.
 

bizaliz3

Member
The irony is.....long fin is a dominant trait. It is with angelfish and plecos anyway.

With angelfish its called the "veil tail" gene. And it is dominant to standard!! A super veil angelfish carries two veil tail genes. The fins are waaaay too long on super veils. A single gene veil tail doesn't have overly long fins in my opinion. They can be quite attractive and not inhibited by the fin size. I intentionally will never breed a veil tail with another veil tail. At least one parent must be standard. That way I never produce super veil angelfish.

I just find it interesting. Its such an undesirable trait in the wild....yet its dominant to standard fin. Youd think the less desirable trait would be recessive.

With long fin plecos, I never noticed a difference in fin length between a long fin pleco with one long fin gene vs two. It was only through breeding that I could confirm if a long fin pleco was homozygous or heterozygous long fin. But AGAIN...for plecos the long fin gene dominates the standard fin. Its so strange to me. Lol

I dont know about other species, but the two I've bred (angelfish and plecos) the long fin/veil tail gene dominates standard.
 
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