What To Do With Serpae Tetras?

Rhys232

got 5 in my tank right now with 6 black phantoms, I have seen one try and attack my bolivian rams fin and has also made the pearl go into hiding mode. they never mess with black phantoms or my mollys.

Stock;

4 Dalmation Mollies
2 Platys
6 Black Phantom tetras
5 Serpae Tetras
4 Panda corys
1 SterbaI Cory
5 KuhlI Loaches
1 Bolivian Ram
1 Pearl gourami

A Mistake getting serpaes or need more for them to stop?

Never seen them mess with platys either had them for a day with the bolivian ram also when I put my bolivian ram in one of my black phantoms were circling around the ram
 

JesseMoreira06

What size tank is this?
 

Rhys232

37 Gallon.
 

Landos

Mine used to attack c102 corys all the time. Rehome them!
 

Rhys232

How many did you have?
 

Landos

12
 

Rhys232

I got so many hiding spots for the fish I just can't believe for such a little fish they have got such an attitude.. will they stop by any chance or should I take them back? the pearl gourami was happy but now it seems to hide.
 

aquatickeeper

Getting more would make them stop nipping. You do have some stocking issues if you'd like it to be discussed.
 

Rhys232

Stocking issues? like as in what.
 

aquatickeeper

So, the sterbaI cories and pearl gourami need warmer water than the panda cories. The serpae tetras, panda cories, sterbaI cories, and kuhlI loaches need a minimum of 6 of their own species or they would have a shortened lifespan. The pearl gourami also needs to be housed in a larger aquarium (the tank is 30" long right?).

Would do:

10 serpae tetras
2 platies
8 panda cories or 8 kuhlI loaches or 8 sterbaI cories
1 bolivian ram

OR

8 black phantom tetras
2 dalmation mollies
8 sterbaI cories or 8 kuhlI loaches or 8 panda cories
1 bolivian ram
 

CrazedHoosier

So, the sterbaI cories and pearl gourami need warmer water than the panda cories. The serpae tetras, panda cories, sterbaI cories, and kuhlI loaches need a minimum of 6 of their own species or they would have a shortened lifespan. The pearl gourami also needs to be housed in a larger aquarium (the tank is 30" long right?).

Would do:

10 serpae tetras
2 platies
8 panda cories or 8 kuhlI loaches or 8 sterbaI cories
1 bolivian ram

OR

8 black phantom tetras
2 dalmation mollies
8 sterbaI cories or 8 kuhlI loaches or 8 panda cories
1 bolivian ram
Why do the pearls need a larger aquarium? They don't grow large, aren't typically aggressive, and aren't extremely active.
 

aquatickeeper

They get to about 5 inches. A footprint of 36" X 12" is the bare minimum, IMO.
 

Rhys232

Hmm I see.. I got the temp set to 26 degrees right now and has been for a long time. the tank is 37 gallons that comes up to 168 litres.. do you think I have overstocked?
 

CrazedHoosier

They get to about 5 inches. A footprint of 36" X 12" is the bare minimum, IMO.
Angelfish get a larger, but need a 20 gallon as a starter. How come pearls need something larger? Is it their activity level or social needs? I'm genuinely curious because I have 2 pearls in my 29 gallon community.
 

aquatickeeper

Hmm I see.. I got the temp set to 26 degrees right now and has been for a long time. the tank is 37 gallons that comes up to 168 litres.. do you think I have overstocked?
It may not seem like it, but the warm water can increase the metabolism of some of the fish you have, which would result in a shortened lifespan. Yes, that is a bit overstocked.
 

Rhys232

It may not seem like it, but the warm water can increase the metabolism of some of the fish you have, which would result in a shortened lifespan. Yes, that is a bit overstocked.
Should I turn down my temp or leave it? I never knew that thanks for telling me, I was going to get more platys but I am going to leave it for now.
 

aquatickeeper

Turning down the temp wouldn't do anything because it would be too cool for some of the fish you have in the tank. There's no temp overlap between the panda cories temp range with the pearl gourami and sterbaI cories temp range. I would recommend you to choose one of the stock I listed above and then do some rehoming and add more fish for your schools.
Angelfish get a larger, but need a 20 gallon as a starter. How come pearls need something larger? Is it their activity level or social needs? I'm genuinely curious because I have 2 pearls in my 29 gallon community.
20 gallons is too small for an angel.
 

CrazedHoosier

.
 

Ed1957

Just because a fish is forced to live in a tank that is smaller and survives does not make for a happy healthy fish. Angel fish get large if they are in a tank that is the correct size. Otherwise their growth is stunted. Also some species need room to swim and it has nothing to do with their size. Others need to be in a school and need a larger tank to accommodate the size of their school.
 

Fearyn

I also have 6 serpaes that I'm trying to rehome. They came with the tank but I didnt want them. Do Petcos or petsmarts take fish?
 

JesseMoreira06

Most say A single Anglefish requires a 29 gallon and a pair requires a 30 gallon , IMO a pair should require a 40 gallon long term.

A pair of Pearls require a 30 gallon IMO. Their water temps should be 76F-84F preferably 78F-82F.

Panda corys require water temps of 70F-75F.
 

Kysarkel000

I also have 6 serpaes that I'm trying to rehome. They came with the tank but I didnt want them. Do Petcos or petsmarts take fish?
They do in my area. LFS also mostly take in fish too
 

junebug

Where are you getting this information from? Even breeders use 20 gallon tanks for a pair of angels.

Breeding fish for commercial purposes and keeping them as pets is not the same thing. Not by a long shot. Putting a pair of angels in a 20 gallon high for a few months to breed them isn't the same thing as keeping them there, as pets, for 5 years.


Regardless, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Angels are big fish and have large fins. They need more room for long-term maintenance than a 20 gallon provides.


All of that said, the solution is to either rehome the serpae tetras, or get more of them. Aggressive schooling fish need larger schools, just by the nature of what they are. In a larger school, they will feel more secure, nip less, and be concerned with their school rather than the rest of the fish in the tank more often than not.
 

OnTheFly

If you buy more Serpaes all you will have is more nippy fish. The schooling fish stocking advice fails miserably on this species.
 

Fearyn

I agree, serpaes are thugs regardless lol! I think they will still be jerks, even if you up their school.
 

CrazedHoosier

Just because a fish is forced to live in a tank that is smaller and survives does not make for a happy healthy fish. Angel fish get large if they are in a tank that is the correct size. Otherwise their growth is stunted. Also some species need room to swim and it has nothing to do with their size. Others need to be in a school and need a larger tank to accommodate the size of their school.
The angelfish that I rescued that is now 7 years old actually grew to it's full size in a 29 gallon. The stunted growth is from a hormone released when they're growing, not the tank.
Breeding fish for commercial purposes and keeping them as pets is not the same thing. Not by a long shot. Putting a pair of angels in a 20 gallon high for a few months to breed them isn't the same thing as keeping them there, as pets, for 5 years.


Regardless, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Angels are big fish and have large fins. They need more room for long-term maintenance than a 20 gallon provides.


All of that said, the solution is to either rehome the serpae tetras, or get more of them. Aggressive schooling fish need larger schools, just by the nature of what they are. In a larger school, they will feel more secure, nip less, and be concerned with their school rather than the rest of the fish in the tank more often than not.
Angelfish are not huge swimmers, and are not good at it, much like the betta. They really prefer to stay in one place for awhile, and then swim around to check everything out when intrigued. I don't think an angelfish should be put in a 20 gallon either, but that's the minimum guideline used by many expert fish keepers. Anything larger is great, but most likely isn't necessary due to the angelfish's natural tendency to swim in-place. When intrigued an angel will interact with its surroundings and swim with medium-level energy, but it only happens maybe up to 5 times per day.
 

junebug

The angelfish that I rescued that is now 7 years old actually grew to it's full size in a 29 gallon. The stunted growth is from a hormone released when they're growing, not the tank.

Angelfish are not huge swimmers, and are not good at it, much like the betta. They really prefer to stay in one place for awhile, and then swim around to check everything out when intrigued. I don't think an angelfish should be put in a 20 gallon either, but that's the minimum guideline used by many expert fish keepers. Anything larger is great, but most likely isn't necessary due to the angelfish's natural tendency to swim in-place. When intrigued an angel will interact with its surroundings and swim with medium-level energy, but it only happens maybe up to 5 times per day.

The angelfish in the 400 gallon tank at my LFS swim around constantly. Like bettas, they will usually swim given the chance.

Most expert fishkeepers I know don't and would not keep angels in a 20 gallon except for breeding purposes.



And to everyone else, yes, Serpaes are thugs in any numbers haha. But I've seen them get HYPER aggressive in small groups, and slightly less bitey in larger ones. It's irrelevant though since the OPs tank is not large enough for a bigger school.
 

CrazedHoosier

The angelfish in the 400 gallon tank at my LFS swim around constantly. Like bettas, they will usually swim given the chance.

Most expert fishkeepers I know don't and would not keep angels in a 20 gallon except for breeding purposes.



And to everyone else, yes, Serpaes are thugs in any numbers haha. But I've seen them get HYPER aggressive in small groups, and slightly less bitey in larger ones. It's irrelevant though since the OPs tank is not large enough for a bigger school.
Yes, they will swim either when intrigued, or stressed. An angelfish swimming around everywhere all the time is most likely very stressed. Like I said, I wouldn't recommend a 20 gallon for an angel either, but they can live in them successfully. Whether it's a breeding angel pair, or an angel housed temorarily, it can be done. There's a difference between surviving and thriving. We should all shoot for thriving, but sometimes surviving is all that can be done.
 

Rhys232

thanks for the information guys should I get 1 more serpae to make it 6 or just get rid of them which I hate to do since they seem alright and tend to keep to themselfs but I have seen 1 go for the bolivian ram I am not sure
 

junebug

If they are nipping your ram, one more tetra isn't going to stop that. I get you; I love serpaes and they are gorgeous. They are just also jerks.
 

Rhys232

Also forgot to say I have baby black phantom tetras which I have never seen the serpaes bother them but its only been a day.
 

Ed1957

Your acting like the fish chose a 20 gallon. If all you want is fish to survive fine. But you make the choice of whatfish you put in your tank. So you either raise fish responsibly be it tank size or water temp and the like or it's all about you and who cares about what will be best for the fish. No any angelfish that can get 6 to 8 inches should not be kept in a 20 gallon tank.
 

OnTheFly

If they are nipping your ram, one more tetra isn't going to stop that. I get you; I love serpaes and they are gorgeous. They are just also jerks.
I love them too, but ten more wouldn't even help. I will do a species tank someday but they should have a warning label on the tank at the LFS. They do not belong in the average community tank. I don't think I have ever ran across anyone that disagrees after actually keeping them.
 

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