What % Of Aquarium Fish Die Of Old Age?

It seems like the statistic would be quite grim.

Fry are born, probably culled before grow out.

Then they are shipped to a LFS. Many will die in transport.

Then they are sold to customers, many who do not have a clue how to keep them.

Then, despite good intentions, bad things happen. Bad stocking. Power outages. Broken equipment. Accidents. Disease.

It seems like the chance of any aquarium fish living to old age is about 1%.

Opinions?

 

Wouldn't say 1% probably more around the 5%! But very little especially if your comparing world wide!

 

It's a depressing thought

 

There's also a lot of inbreeding, especially of high demand fish, that leads to early deaths.

 

To be fair the chances of a fish living to old age in the wild is pretty slI'm as well.

In fact I'd imagine a higher percentage of fish die of old age in captivity than in the wild due to the removal of predation alone.

 

To be fair the chances of a fish living to old age in the wild is pretty slI'm as well.

In fact I'd imagine a higher percentage of fish die of old age in captivity than in the wild due to the removal of predation alone.

That is true! In the wild there probably are more fish being born and growing up but most will die to feed other fish and animals! Sadly many of the deaths in the fish hobby are from human neglect not a natural reason

 

*sigh* It's sad to think captive fish are here to be entertainment as a hobby, as watching, and as a little buddy with fins. They try to make our life joyful yet they can't because humans don't give it to them. That's why I am devoted to be a good fish owner. They are people too, you know! (Just cuter and have fins )

 

True, I think it'd be higher than 1% however fish in an aquarium don't usually survive as long as in the wild....but I posed that thought before....everyone keeps talking about not stressing the fish too much but yes they are shipped from the farms or captive breeding locals to the lfs where they recommend holding them for a few hours to help them distress then to new tanks again....true not always a good start...
besides most of the fish we buy are not wild caught so they are somewhat removed from their wild counterparts....
on a positive note...reared Cory eggs and had a 90% survival rate....guess that's good....

 

I like to believe that I am providing them with a stress free zone (no predators to eat them), while they provide me with some much needed relaxation. lol

 

Uhh it's so frustrating going to the fish store. I was there a few days ago and this poor guy was trying to convince this lady not to get anything else for her cichlid tank because one of her cichlids was a very aggressive kind. She kept persisting and persisting and he gave a few ideas but said they probably wouldn't work because of that one fish. All she had to say was how many could I get of those? how many of these can I put in the tank? How many how many how many. I would never go to the fish store without knowing exactly what I need and have everything set up for it and have done hours of research. Just going to the fish store to pick out some new fish is how you kill fish.

 

Honestly when you think about it...it might be the same number! In the wild many fish die from starvation, predation, environmental change, disease etc. In the hobby many die from disease, neglect, stress, predation, stress, etc. There pretty much the same amount. However think about Aquariums(the building not tank) they house lots of fish that relatively live a good long life in a big aquarium and are fed well! However in captivity these animals should be living longer and there are no real excuse. For every goldfish in captivity that lives 10+ years and in a pond,there are hundred only living a couple months in a tank <20 gallons.

 

youd think in captivity they should be living longer but it's a closed environment....and the more we mess with that environment the more we affect the lifespan of a fish....and the already mentioned captive bred fish and their start in life....
and yet we hear stories of some fish surviving 10+ years in an aquarium....

point is we try to provide the best environment for them....but after 30+ years keeping fish I can still Google research on a species of fish and still get mixed reviews???

 

Here's my take - if we know what we are doing, fish can outlive their wild counterparts due to lower predation. It's a big "if". Water changing, maintenance, not overstocking, having intelligently scaped tanks - these can lead to good things. Skip any of them, and yikes.
I have had 7-8 year old cardinals, a fish that might live a year in the predator filled wild. Rainbows have made 12 years.
Not one of my especially long lived fish has ever been from a fishfarm. They have all been wild-caught young arrivals, or fish bred from wild caughts.
The biggest killers, other than human laziness about learning or loss of interest, is fishfarm crowding diseases. After that, overfeeding. Fat destroys fish. Overly high temperatures shortens lifespans as well. Human error, bad luck, and laziness are always there, but good practices can really change things.
We can see the destruction, but never forget that hobbyists can maintain endangered or extinct in the wild species if they make the decision to raise their games. I keep one species, and have for several generations. Many of us do.
More of us should consider it.

 

youd think in captivity they should be living longer but it's a closed environment....and the more we mess with that environment the more we affect the lifespan of a fish....and the already mentioned captive bred fish and their start in life....
and yet we hear stories of some fish surviving 10+ years in an aquarium....

point is we try to provide the best environment for them....but after 30+ years keeping fish I can still Google research on a species of fish and still get mixed reviews???

What do you mean by mix reviews?

The reason why most fish aren't living to their max lifespan is due to improper keeping of the fish! Many of the times this is due to the size tank, the number of fish, filtration, and neglect. Many people don't know the minimum tank size for fish and think every fish the sell stores can go in a 10 gallon. Then people don't know what a schooling fish is or what the exact definition is so they only get 1 tetra or they have 1 tetra of 6 different species. Then you have people overstocking their tank. Or having stocking compatibility like putting 4 or 10 DGs in the same tank.

The fish that due live long, most of them are living in big tanks and most of them are owned by intermediate to advance hobbyist or at least people who know their stuff. This is why Fishlore and many other forums are here. Just Fishlore alone together we save probably hundreds of thousand of fish may be even millions. Combine that with other forums and well we are saving a lot. Yet there are probably 10x more fish dying but think about how many fish we save each year compared to 10 years ago. This is why we tell and hope people pass on the things they learn to other hobbyist. Myths such as the inch-per-gallon and fish grow to the size tank are slowly getting pushed out yet it is still there.

 

point taken....but some of us are subject to what is available from out local lfs....which are not wild caught...
and I can appreciate the wild caught hobby of it but we house them (wild caught or not ) in small glass houses....at the end of the day how is that right....
but u raise good points....I keep fish I like....select few species....
I can't take the fish for a walk everyday for exercise...

 

meaning a lot of researched results are mixed at best....hence forums....but every tank is unique....what works for you doesn't mean it'll work for another....
and my fish tend to live long...years actually....
however, statistically fish in the wild have a longer lifespan that captive bred fish...just a fact....you'll have anomalies but just what it is

 

point taken....but some of us are subject to what is available from out local lfs....which are not wild caught...
and I can appreciate the wild caught hobby of it but we house them (wild caught or not ) in small glass houses....at the end of the day how is that right....
but u raise good points....I keep fish I like....select few species....
I can't take the fish for a walk everyday for exercise...

Small glass house? That is why there are minimum tank size, and I think Navigator Black and I are more into under stocking aquariums which gives more room to the individual fish and longer lives when the temp, filtration, and parameters are balanced.

Fish in the wild have longer lifespans since they don't have to deal with weird temps and other fish so closely to it. All the parameters are perfect for the fish unlike in the aquarium where people keep fish not at the right temp, people add a whole bunch of fish that won't normally be all up in the fishes face. People don't have natural planted aquariums. All these factors lead to a shorter life. However there are still a handful of aquarist who don't over stock their aquariums and try to give each fish there fair share of room.

In captivity though there are more survival rates since there isn't that whole survival of the fittest. If people keep there fish properly then yes, I believe that the captive fish will live longer than wild species. Some websites will say the average life span and then say that the fish will live longer under proper care and tank environment. Bettas for example, average is 2 years however if properly kept it goes to 3-5 years. For Goldfish, I would say under 5 years if properly kept 20+ years.

 

Totally agree....were saying the same thing just from diff sides...I threw out the inch per gallon rule a long time ago...I prefer 2" per gallon and focus more on longer than taller tanks...better water volume....

 

I personally think we should only be keeping tank raised animals. If a species is not comfortable enough to breed in a tank, that means a tank environment is too compromised. Also, taking a fish from the wild and then enclosing in a tank must be some kind of torture. Young fish raised in a small crowded tank migh actually appreciate a 55 gallon tank.

 

thank you...can't say the idea didn't cross my mind about taking a fish from the wild and enclosing it in a caged setting....graphic but true...
why I prefer to give as much space as I can allow....
but different reasons why people keep fish...not always as easy as it looks eh?

 

It goes the full circle. We are asking if our hobby is ethical. Probably not. However, we have the resources and can work to goals that are ethical.
The wild import versus tank bred versus farm bred is a case in point. I see farmed fish in awful shape, carrying diseases that shorten lifespans. The bottom end farms do very unethical things to rush fish to market cheaply. Should I encourage that? I have decided no.
So I like fish that hobbyists have bred, ideally hobbyists who give a lot of room to growing fish. I also like wild caught fish - rarely diseased, and only bought if I think I can breed them and spread them around. If I don't think I can breed it, then I don't go there.
Wild caught tends to support small, local fisheries. I've discussed with aquarium fishers running small businesses in tropical countries, and they are generally good people very protective of their livelihood. They know their fish, and handle them well.
I tend to like that more than an industrialized farms cutting corners to pay shareholders who have probably never seen an aquarium fish.
Our hobby can be a tool for education. I have had the opportunity to work with scientists studying fish, as a hobbyist with only a High School science bckground. I have worked (well, it it's fun, not work) with extinct and endangered fish, distributing them to as many hobbyists as I can, while they do the same.
Once you get bored with running a community tank, and if you have the space and time to set up a few larger tanks, nothing stops a hobbyist from getting more involved in projects like the CARES program, for example. You can use that ten gallon to learn how to really make use of your knowledge.
What may be more interesting than individual lifespans is species survival, especially given what we are doing to habitats. I have my relatively short human lifespan as a limit, but I hope to have a couple of more decades, and if I can hand off healthy specimens of an extinct in nature fish to a now 16 year old who finds them on a forum, and he or she can keep them going for a few more decades while handing them off... that is a cool use of hobby time.
I don't feel I have successfully kept a fish until I bring it to the 3rd generation. That's how you learn. I haven't succeeded at breeding cardinals. but I'll try again.

 

ur passionate about this...I dig it..

 

Totally agree....were saying the same thing just from diff sides...I threw out the inch per gallon rule a long time ago...I prefer 2" per gallon and focus more on longer than taller tanks...better water volume....

Yeah, we kind of are although just minor difference!

Also you do realize 2" per gallon is worse than inch per gallon because that means you can have 20 inch fish in a 10 gallon rather than 1o inch in 10 gallon? But even than the whole Idea of x inches per gallon is totally wrong. If you look at the 10 gallon list:Stocking List for 10 Gallons and you add up all the lengths of the fish, it will be a wide range! The activity level and behavior of the fish is the biggest part. Either way, its best to make it as natural as possible. In a 55 gallon I think I would still do it like my 40 breeder, just have a large school of mid-dwelling fish and bottom dwelling fish, then add some center pieces.

This is why I like to stick to the smaller size when it comes to fish since all the common standard tanks will work for them and you can have more. If you had a 55 it would be better to have 30 ember tetras than say 8 of a bigger schooling fish. I think Rachel O'Leary does a good job when it comes to her tanks, you don't really see her tanks are stuffed with fish unless it is her stocking tanks where she is selling those fish.

As far as wild, I think they can be doable as long as precautions are taken, and again having a good size tank(not just the minimum) and meeting the requirements of the fish. You see many times a lot of the big chain pet store fish have weak immune system or have defects, this is due to mass breeding which dilutes their gene pool. They are also in tanks where they are hundreds of them. There are local breeders and hobbyist who do have wild types and breed them. These off-springs are way healthier. Of course some wild-species of fish are endanger or if there aren't enough you shouldn't be purchasing these. Also some pet stores might sell wild types but sometimes they might be getting it from a supplier who use bad methods. It is better if you can breed them so that way you can spread healthy fish among other hobbyist to enjoy and also breed. This way we can end those companies who have unethical way of mass producing for consumerism

But to boil it down, when given the right conditions(sadly most fish aren't) captive fish can and will live longer than wild types.

Here is a small company that breeds their own fish and they give a good reason why you should by from them: Last paragraph talks about the wild fish! The downside, like many of other small sellers don't always have it available! But would you rather wait a couple of weeks maybe months to get healthy fish or support companies that buy mass produced fish in which hundreds probably die each day due to the crammed conditions in those facilities?

LOL,things literally got real, but we touched on some good topics and learned a lot from each other!

 

nah, 2" per gallon technically means you keep half the fish...one inch per gallon is also relative to the mature size of the fish....

 

nah, 2" per gallon technically means you keep half the fish...one inch per gallon is also relative to the mature size of the fish....

2" per gallon=20" per 10 gallon ? Sorry don't see how its 1/2 a fish . When we stock a tank we always stock it by mature size! Kind of confuse but whtever think we understand, don't overstock or even fully stock

 

I have made up my own rule. I look at the adult size of the fish, and multipy it by 8. So if a fish is two inches long, that makes 16. That becomes the minimum front glass measurement in inches for such a fish. It isn't a biooload calculation, but a behavior and quality of life rule.
So a 4 inch fish must be in a 3 foot tank. I round up, always.
Calculating how many is harder. I never buy single fish, since I like breeding fish. So that makes a tank for a pair if the fish is territorial, or a group of six for a shoaler.
I have a sliding rule for numbers.
A small slender fish like a cardinal or a glowlight can go at an inch per gallon.
A small high bodied fish will be evaluated as a territorial animal, since they usually are.
A fish above 2 inches gets a minimum 3 gallons per, if the tank is larger than a 15. I am perfectly happy with two small killifish in a planted 15. They will add to their numbers and behave in reasonably natural ways. Crowd them and they just hover and stare.
My tanks, other than fry tanks, are not heavily stocked. My planted 120 has 4 Steatocranus cichlids (4-5 inches each), 9 boesemanI rainbows, two 3 inch African tetras and an Ancistrus. I don't need to be hit in the face with a show.
My 75, also low maintenance planted has 12 cardinals, 10 rummys (bleheri), 13 other Hyphessobrycon tetras of various more expensive species I hope to breed soon, 2 Guianacara cichlids and an Ancistrus. It's full.

 

pretty sure I explained it right....
there is the standard one inch per gallon rule
I like to use a two inch per gallon....I may be saying it wrong but instead of housing 20 one inch fish in a 20 gallon tank you'd stock ly 10 ....just an example

 

I think you're trying to say 1" per 2 gallons.

 

Yes thank you....

 

Or 1/2" per gallon.

 

youd think in captivity they should be living longer but it's a closed environment....and the more we mess with that environment the more we affect the lifespan of a fish....and the already mentioned captive bred fish and their start in life....
and yet we hear stories of some fish surviving 10+ years in an aquarium....

point is we try to provide the best environment for them....but after 30+ years keeping fish I can still Google research on a species of fish and still get mixed reviews???

that's more due more poor record keeping, most folks don't have a scientific method in the hobby, it's more anecdotal. even I'm guilty of it. but right now I try to be as scientific as possible evaluate my theory before big assumptions especially if I lack data.

 

it's still not an exact science due to more captive bred fish /more than one generation too....a lot lfs get their stock from breeders.....which has taken some of the 'wild' out of the fish....so many fish have become more adaptable.....it's still not an exact science yet....its learning to pull the truth from the varied sites...
and like in the wild...the stronger will survive....

 

However there are many things that haven't change about fish especially when it comes to group numbers and the activity level thus the minimum tank size won't change . And yes, there are many information out there and just because the information is about aquariums and fish doesn't mean all of it is true. You do have to differentiate what sites are accurate and what aren't. Just because 5 websites say the same thing doesn't mean its true. In the science world it does tend to be true but sadly when it comes to fish care, many sites just copy off one another, so one wrong information gets spread to a whole bunch of websites.

When it comes to the survival of fish in the hobby it is the survival of the fittest but also natural(more like artificial) selection that determines whether a fish live or not. It can also be luck, some fish do go into good homes although many sadly won't

 

totally agree there...in short if I could only keep 10 small fish in my tank I'd rather see a nice small school of at least 6 and some activity on the bottom as opposed to buying 10 fish of diff species....and yes a lot of misinformation is based on some sort of truth....heck if we're an exact science it would take a lot of the u known/unsure out of the equation....
but even forums will have different views....not necessarily a right or a wrong thing...
and I held my tongue when I was at the lfs last week....a dad an daughter were in the store and sounded like she was given an aquarium and now buying fish....ivlike this one and this was me and this one....the employee halted one purchase as it was a cichlids and could become aggressive....but at the end of the day the girl bought the fish she wanted...all singly and about 4...
I didn't say anything...would anyone else have?....

 

totally agree there...in short if I could only keep 10 small fish in my tank I'd rather see a nice small school of at least 6 and some activity on the bottom as opposed to buying 10 fish of diff species....and yes a lot of misinformation is based on some sort of truth....heck if we're an exact science it would take a lot of the u known/unsure out of the equation....
but even forums will have different views....not necessarily a right or a wrong thing...
and I held my tongue when I was at the lfs last week....a dad an daughter were in the store and sounded like she was given an aquarium and now buying fish....ivlike this one and this was me and this one....the employee halted one purchase as it was a cichlids and could become aggressive....but at the end of the day the girl bought the fish she wanted...all singly and about 4...
I didn't say anything...would anyone else have?....

I have found this forum to be one of the best out of the other general forum...reason why I decided to be a dedicated member here! Other forums people don't have a good sense of minimum tank size or how to stock a tank! People still recommend neons for a 5 gallon aquarium . Althogh one forum I really like is Monster Fishkeepers, they have a knowledgeable group of people who know the right minimum tank size for fish bigger than 6 inches. They even don't recommend people feeding feeder fish from the pet store to big fish like oscars, pikes, etc.

As far as pet shop stories go, sadly I had my fair share of not telling another customer how to properly cycle a tank or the fact the fish are compatible with one another or need a bigger tank. Online is easier since most people are willing to accept help while people in the fish store aren't always like that. Some people literally want to get a fish, someone told a story of how a customer wanted a goldfish for a 5 gallon tank and the employee said no and the women asked for the manager.

The aquarium does have a good amount of science to it probably about 80-90%. Although we normally use aquarium vocabulary instead

 

I hear ya there....only reason I frequent this forum more is because of anders247...we touched base on a different forum and recommended this one...
so here I am..

 

I hear ya there....only reason I frequent this forum more is because of anders247...we touched base on a different forum and recommended this one...
so here I am..

This forum might be one of the bigger aquarium forums out there and many times when you search a question online one of the links is Fishlore!

 

Lol I'm not gonna lie I always get a kick out of googling some topic and finding a fishlore link to one of my own threads.

If I type "how to cultivate microworms" into google right now my little how-to guide I put together on here is one of the top 3 search results.

 

Lol I'm not gonna lie I always get a kick out of googling some topic and finding a fishlore link to one of my own threads.

If I type "how to cultivate microworms" into google right now my little how-to guide I put together on here is one of the top 3 search results.

Nice! I have notice some of the pics that I have posted are showing in Google s!

 

Nice! I have notice some of the pics that I have posted are showing in Google s!

Lol yeah that happens from time to time as well for me

Actually my fish are all over the first page of an search for fundulopanchax gardnerI gold

 

*sigh* It's sad to think captive fish are here to be entertainment as a hobby, as watching, and as a little buddy with fins. They try to make our life joyful yet they can't because humans don't give it to them. That's why I am devoted to be a good fish owner. They are people too, you know! (Just cuter and have fins )

HI I have to disagree my fish are not for my entertainment.as they are living things same as a dog they are my pet and I do everything to look after them.I think most of us love our fish

 

I do have to say many people don't treat aquariums and fish as a pet but more as a decoration for their house or a toy. This is one reason why fish don't live as long as they should in the hobby because of peoples attitude to fish. If I say what is the easiest pet, the majority would say fish. Most people already have in their mind a tank full of colorful fish thus when they go to the store they will picl up what they think is a decent size tank, 10 gallon, and stuff it with as many fish as they can. They are an entertainment just like a dog, hamster, etc would be. However they should be treated with as much care. And the only way to truly enjoy them is giving them a natural setup. The best tanks are those that replicate the similar environment or at least most tropical fish enjoy and benefit being in a planted tanm

I know there is a good amount of us that don't treat our fish as mere decoration but as a pet just like you would a dog or even your kid. However sadly on would say at least 50% and this may be generous don't provide a suitable tank or living condition.