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what is wrong with my two bettas? I've tried everything!

  1. l

    lolagurl Well Known Member Member

    Both bettas I got as adult fish originally in those crappy plactic cups. One is a beautiful pink with white fins halfmoon, who although looked miserable in the tank hadperfect flaring fins. I brought him home but him in a 5g cycled tank all too himself, there is no plastic is=n his tank, all his plants are now silk or of soft rubber like material, he has a heater and a tetra whisper filter (the 1-3 gallon one) as i figured it would be rather weak, I also do reg. water changes. My second betta I RESCUED at home dept (why they decided they could now sell fish I do not know) he was in a worse cup then my previous betta half filled of water, poop and debris everywhere, completely depleted of colour, was a opaque white, and looked to be a half dead veil tail, though he had perfect fins with no damage or dformation. Now 3 months laater in his cycled, silk planted, heated, filtered 2.5 g he is a deep deep red, his entire body!
    This is my problem though both fish's top fins and bottom fins have become curled, though there are no black edges, and my white finned HM back fin has become shredded. I thought this might be fin rot so i started using melafix, for finrot, but no luck so far. I know fish can tear their fins on sharp things but even their gravel are those smooth glass marbles, and like i said all silk plants. i just want their fins to look healthy again and don't know what it could be! How come it always seems the people who stuff the fish in a tiny unfiltered unheated betta bowl,or "container" always seem to have the lastest longest fish with no problems, its maddening! lol. Anywaysany help on this owuld be greatly appreciated. I also thought maybe the curled top fins could be do to the fact that my fish like to hang around the top of the tank alot waiting for food, so there top fin is always squished and maybe poking out of the water a little bit due to being squished between their body and top of the water. I feed them one to twice a day 3 pellets each time
    p-s i keep the 2.5 g temp at 75-77 and the 5 g from 78-80
     
  2. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    remove the melafix, get it out ASAP, thats not safe for bettas. How hard is your water?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    l

    lolagurl Well Known Member Member

    Its bad for bettas! But I was told it is good for betta with fin rot, it even says on the bottle its for fin rot. Ok ill get it out. There is no amonia or nitrate buildup, i dont know what you mean by hard water? Should i start doing water changes with bottled water?
     
  4. OP
    OP
    l

    lolagurl Well Known Member Member

  5. jerilovesfrogs

    jerilovesfrogs Fishlore VIP Member

    i don't think it's bad for them unless you really overdose. there was a thread long ago, can't remember when...but it talked about the use of pimafix, melafix and bettafix with labarynith fish.

    usually what really helps bettas is really clean water. did you say how often you were doing water changes/vacuuming? i had a hard time reading your post, there were no paragraphs. ;) but they really heal well in very clean water. like change 50% every couple days.....and if that works, wait until he's healed, then you can do it once a week. but in those tanks being so small, it sholdn't take long at all.

    but this is the reason i don't have bettas right now. except for a girl. i just had bad luck over and over with them. i think sometimes they are just so damaged and weakened from being in a plastic toilet...that it shortens their life, and immune system
     
  6. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    Melafix is bad, bettafix is the supposed solution. I dont know why people still argue after its been seen countless times, the science is their to back it. The tree oil used in Melafix coats the bettas labyrinth organ, causing respiratory issues in the fish. If your going to treat with meds, especially for Finrot just use marcyn2. But clean water and proper temps 76 minimum and a 84 max. 76 isnt going to fix finrot, but its not going to make it much worse, 80-82 is normally recommended for finrot.
     
  7. jerilovesfrogs

    jerilovesfrogs Fishlore VIP Member

    and where is this science again?
     
  8. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    The Oil, coating the fishes labyrinth. That much is proven. Not to mention that something had to be wrong if the company started producing diluted product for labyrinth. People will always argue it back and forth. Either way its not the root subject here. For the case of finrot, clean warm water should help fix it up, but you mentioned almost curling in the fins, now i know in some cases this is caused by hard water. Do you have a test for the hardness?

    Also, is their any gooey looking stuff around the fins? Are the tears straight between the rays of the fins or are the ragged? Pics would help tons. Sorry for all the questions XP
     
  9. jerilovesfrogs

    jerilovesfrogs Fishlore VIP Member

    there doesn't need to be a temp increase for finrot. a normal temperature is fine....which would be 77-80. you increase temps for ich. finrot responds to very clean water. if that's what the op is dealing with.

    and whether or not these products are safe or not i don't know. but if you're going to say they're not, you should provide proof as to why they're not.
     
  10. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    Temp increase will help the fishes immune system and prevent secondary infection.
     
  11. Jaysee

    Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    I have used melafix of anabantoids and they didn't die. The concern is overdosing - the reason being that most people keep their bettas in small tanks, which makes overdosing all that much more likely and serious when it happens. THAT's why there is bettafix - a diluted version of melafix so people don't overdose their bowls and vases.

    I've looked the bottle over and saw absolutely no references to problems with anabantoids. I find that really odd, because API puts warnings on their other meds about uses with certain types of fish. I'm not saying that that makes it 100% safe, do what you want - I'm saying that they put a lot of money into the R&D (science). I think someone should contact API and find out more.

    I've never seen someone suggest increasing the temperature for anything other than ich. Generally, warm water speeds things up so any infection is going to grow because of it. That's one of the reasons to raise the temp while fish are in quarantine - to see what develops, if anything.

    How does the warmer water help the immune system?
     
  12. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    Keeps them running and eating, aids digestion, so long as its not a fish that actually prefers cooler temps. When your fish is having a problem, be it fin rot, fungus or so on, they get stressed. Stress can lower the immune system, this leaves them wide open to secondary or opportunistic illnesses. Such as ich and velvet. Since the fish in this case are on the minimum for their species temps, putting the fish at a more comfortable temperature will reduce stress on them, and help prevent unwanted parasites like ich.
     
  13. jerilovesfrogs

    jerilovesfrogs Fishlore VIP Member

    and who's to say that above 80 is a more comfortable temp for them? did you ask them? mr. fish....do you prefer 77, or 84? an appropriate temperature for the species should be comfortable for them.
     
  14. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    Bettas have been observed much more active and show a more relaxed body language at the lower 80s. Just set two of them up, one in a 76 degree tank and the other in a 82. Im done here though. I tried to prevent the arguments, i tried to stop the bickering. The OPs fish is the concern here,
    . So no i didnt ask the fish, I OBSERVED THE FISH. Verbal communication is not the only way to communicate.
     
  15. Jaysee

    Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    Warm water keeps the fish eating? While I agree that temp has an impact on appetite, I think within the parameters set forth in this discussion, the effects are negligible.

    Ich is not a secondary infection. Latent would be more appropriate. Chilling a fish will bring it out, because of the stress like you said, but a fish that isn't already infected isn't going to show spots. However, secondary infections are certainly a concern when a fish is stressed and not well.

    Are you suggesting that you cannot cure fin rot in 76 degree water?? I don't spend a lot of time in the betta part (where fin rot is presumably more prevalent), but I don't recall ever seeing someone suggest raising the temp for fin rot. Though my memory is excellent, it is not infallible.
     
  16. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    I was only referring to helping the fishes fins regrow. Its not that you wouldn't cure it in lower temps, that is possible. But fin regrowth does happen faster in warmer(again appropriately warm, not just over heating) water. The regrowth of fins will be impacted by how efficiently the betta is absorbing nutrients from its food and putting them to use in regrowing fins. As stated before, a beta in 80-82 degree water is more active and seem to eat more as well as come down with digestion problems less then a fish in cooler mid 70s water. And again, a more comfortable fish/less stressed out animal will be regrowing their fins faster/better(meaning less likely to have kinks or odd folds) then a stressed or uncomfortable fish.

    Its just a bunch of fine print over detailing on my part, i apologize for my behavior in this thread, i will not argue the use of the fix products again, nor will i suggest higher temps for a fish that doesn't have ich or is in temps lower then recommended. I was going to go through and edit/delete my posts that were just bickering but itd look kinda odd :p

    As far as ich, i would have tabled opportunistic more likely. Its said that its already in most tanks to some extent, it just needs the fishes immune system to be weaker. Something stress can do, stress caused by finrot?
     
  17. jerilovesfrogs

    jerilovesfrogs Fishlore VIP Member

    i don't think we are bickering.....maybe to you. but we're just having a debate of sorts. people are allowed to disagree...and state their opinions/facts. that's all this is. we were not saying you are wrong....just, are you right?
     
  18. soltarianknight

    soltarianknight Fishlore VIP Member

    No more right then any one person can be :p
     
  19. Wendy Lubianetsky

    Wendy Lubianetsky Well Known Member Member

    The oils in Melafix and Pimafix are so processed, that it is really not an "oil" anymore. If you poor either one over your hand, there is no oil residue. I have treated both bettas and gouramis with them and had no bad results. The manufacturors stand behind their claim that it is not bad for labrinth fish.
     
  20. Jaysee

    Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    Bettas have such different finnage - I really don't know what's best for regrowing their fins. I wasn't suggesting that raising the temp is wrong in any way - I just don't recall ever seeing it suggested (in the areas of the forum that I pay attention to). Truth be told, such threads about bettas would be passed over. I genuinely wanted to hear what you had to say about the matter :)

    I agree, ich is already in most tanks to some extent, and it shows up when the fish's immune system is weakened. It's already in the tank because the fish is living with the infection - in harmony with it. But ich is not in every tank. A tank of uninfected fish aren't going to get ich one day.
     

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